Tile without grout

[Micscience]

Hello G.J. members, I am going to be laying tile for an elderly relative of mine. She saw in Portugal the beautiful tile without grout lines and she loved it. Fast forward to her third floor apartment renovation she wants me to lay down the ceramic tile with no gaps and no grout just butted up against one an other.

The tiles are kind of big maybe a foot and a half sized square. I have laid a few tile floors before but my desires are more into mechanical adventures so I am no expert. I wanted to learn the skinny on this because I read laying tile without no grout can cause chips and become harder to line up. So any help, helps thank you.

 

[shoot summ]

Hello G.J. members, I am going to be laying tile for an elderly relative of mine. She saw in Portugal the beautiful tile without grout lines and she loved it. Fast forward to her third floor apartment renovation she wants me to lay down the ceramic tile with no gaps and no grout just butted up against one an other.

The tiles are kind of big maybe a foot and a half sized square. I have laid a few tile floors before but my desires are more into mechanical adventures so I am no expert. I wanted to learn the skinny on this because I read laying tile without no grout can cause chips and become harder to line up. So any help, helps thank you.

There is a great tile forum, johnbridge.com, I would suggest you spend some time over there, good folks, great advice.

I've done a lot of tile, but it's not what I do for a living. First with large tiles controlling "lippage", where the tiles are all level, and level with each other is a challenge. Grout lines(the spacing actually) helps lessen how much you notice lippage, so no grout line will make it VERY noticeable. That to me is going to be your biggest issue. The second issue is the product you use, and how consistent it is size wise. You make up for a lot of things in grout spacing, product size issues, out of square issues, etc.

IMO you are up for a challenge...

 

[Angelfire]

I think you are up for a real challenge as well. Are the tiles rectified? If not (and even if they are), I'd certainly be spending a fair amount of time dry fitting to make sure things will work. On large tile like that, I've been led to believe 1/8" is minimum with some guys able to do 1/16" grout lines. But for that, I'd think a rectified tile would be required.
Cheers.

 

[kd3pc]

the cheaper the tile, the tougher the job, as things like square and same thickness are not an issue at a $1 per square.

Subfloor has to be perfect for larger than 12" tiles, especially with no grout - as any movement of subfloor or tile will cause the edges to chip...again cheap tiles are glazed top, and any chip will be a super contrast to the tile face...

good ideas so far, but keep in mind what she may have seen was real terrazzo floors...not tile

 

[e36jon]

I've been looking at tile for a project downstairs and the company I am interested in makes mostly commercial / contract products (Porcelanosa brand). A lot of their large format (18"+ square) floor tiles are intended to go over a sand base with no grout! I have NO IDEA how this works in practice, but, apparently a lot of hotel lobbies / shopping centers / etc have tile done this way and we don't even notice...

Good luck with the project and please post back results / learning for the rest of us non-pros.

Jon

 

[Micscience]

Great advice thanks for the pointer. I assume she bought cheap tiles since they were from a bargain outlet store. I am going to try and advise her to go with grout with a matching color. I was thinking of using a 1/16 grout but that may be pushing it so I may have to do with 1/8. I will check the accuracy of the tiles and I am definitely going to lay the floor down dry first as a buffer any errors. Thanks for the tips I will post some pics when I am done.

 

[Dakota00]

A lot of their large format (18"+ square) floor tiles are intended to go over a sand base with no grout! I have NO IDEA how this works in practice, but, apparently a lot of hotel lobbies / shopping centers / etc have tile done this way and we don't even notice...

Jon

Are you referring to dry-pack? Sand mixed with portland cement. When dealing with large format slab material best way for installation would be going the dry-pack route. It's more labor intensive work but the end result for installation is unbeatable.

Great advice thanks for the pointer. I assume she bought cheap tiles since they were from a bargain outlet store. I am going to try and advise her to go with grout with a matching color. I was thinking of using a 1/16 grout but that may be pushing it so I may have to do with 1/8. I will check the accuracy of the tiles and I am definitely going to lay the floor down dry first as a buffer any errors. Thanks for the tips I will post some pics when I am done.

Go with grout, plain and simple! You are asking for too much trouble doing an installation without grout. Just the simple fact any tiny gaps or spaces in the tile work will fill up with dirt over time. If you are dealing with cheap tiles that are not uniformed use 3/16 or 1/8 spacers.

 

[Shiftless]

Do those tiles you are planning to install have square edges like they are saw cut or rounded over pillow edges? I have seen saw cut marble slabs installed with no grout lines but I doubt that anybody could do that successfully with el cheapo ceramic tiles. The lippage issue with large format square cut edges is huge. Even if the floor is pool table flat there will be problems.

IIWY, I'd go with grout lines.

 

[LXCam]

I wouldn't even consider it without grout. If the tiles were so much as a 1/32 out of square that trueness to each other will grow and look like **** even if you do get them perfectly flat. Plus being on the third floor there will be movement no matter what you do and in time they will edge chip. Well good luck.

 

[Micscience]

Here is a look at what I am up against. The rectangle tiles are 24" long and the squares in the bathroom are 14"x14" I believe. The walls aren't exactly straight neither just by using the eye test.

In one of the photos I drew a line between the two doorway trims in the kitchen. I told her that would be the best way to finish the floor instead of a 90 degree straight line that she recommended. My concern is how good of a cut can I get using a powered tile saw compared to those scribing manual type of saws. If the cuts don't come out good or if they chip it will be right there in plain view and no where to hide so I am a little concerned about cutting that line. We all know cutting tile does not look like factory edge. Anyways I figured I would share some photos since you guys helped me out.

edit; I thought the photos would 've expanded once clicked I guess not.

 

[kd3pc]

A wet ring saw is the best to use, it is slower than a rough grit wet saw and chips less. Down side, and I can not tell from the pics, is that glazed tile will now have a lighter color edge that will stick out if not perfectly level to the factory finished piece next to it.

the pic with the black tape - will be a bear to cut, as every tile appears to have an angle cut on every tile. Most setters will strike a line between the door jams and then 90 degrees to that line so that you have full cuts and factory edges on the line between the door - where you need the most support as ALL of your traffic in and out will be on those first 4 to 6 tiles. They need to be perfect as every one will see them as well.

You have quite a few cuts to make. The scribe and crack devices will not give you the edges you are looking for. You may want to "sand" the edges and practice some cuts to make sure what you will have to work with.

Best of luck

 

[Phillip1]

Hi! Is it possible to place every tile without grout? I`ve been messing up with handmade mosaic for a while and i pretty much go the easy way and place tiles onto the grout. Is it possible to place such a small tiles not using any of?

 

[bczygan]

I'd tell her to get the guy from Portugal...

 

[a91syncro]

Tile without grout is a severe no no. The grout is there to let the tile expand and contract. This is necessary so the floor does not "tent" or buckle.With the use of those large format tiles most manufacturers want them set on a 1/3 offset pattern to eliminate any lippage. These tiles when fired are not flat and tend to warp. I have been doing tile for more than 16 years in residential and commercial settings and have never set tile that was butted against each other to eliminate the grout joint.