I have been researching this for days and need some help. My garage has a concrete floor. I live in Sacramento (a Mediterranean climate) I ground my floor with a 70 grit grinder to get the epoxy applied 22 years ago and I now have a smooth and level surface with no cracks. I had the expansion joints mudded over during pouring. I used a 5 sack mix with rebar and 5 inch thick. after research I want porcelain tile with a PCI of 4 or 5 and slip rating of R11 to R13. I have gone to most of the tile stores in Sacramento and can't find anyone that is very knowledgeable. I am not sure if I want 12" x 12" or 12" x 24" (seems like most tile is now in a 12 X 24 format) (Home Depot has a 12 X 12 tile that is PCI 4 and cost $1.50 per sq ft which sounds pretty good) I am not sure if I want to look for or even how to identify tiles that have the following Charteristics (which, after research, I think I should be looking for) Color all the way thru? I recently discovered that the PEI rating only refers to the surface scratch resistance (Earlier I thot it referred to the structural integrity of the tile, will it break under weight) Is there a way to find out if a tile will hold up under weight or are all porcelain tiles rated for heavy loads? Do I need vitrified tiles? Do I need Rectified tiles? Do I want glazed, unglazed or unglazed that is polished tiles? Should I use level master to insure tiles are all level with each other? Should I use Red Guard or equal for a primer? Should I use Schluter Ditra to reduce cracking under movement? What should be my grout space be? I read posts from "Dakota" that sound like he works in a tile store and is an expert. How can I find someone like him to give me answers?
Tiling My Garage
- Thread starter johnr9q
- Start date
Wayne67vert
Well-known member
I'm a retired tile installer in Florida.
You have a smooth level non cracked surface.
Are the mudded over expansion joints still not cracked?
Is your garage temperature controlled year round?
Yes you will need crack suppression under the tile. I like a stick down product that adheres to the floor and provides a texture for the thinset to adhere to.
The bigger the tile the more flat your floor needs to be. Bigger tile means less grout to care for after the install.
Your grout size is up to you and what look you want. Rectified tile will allow a thinner grout line.
I like the leveling tabs with wedges to assure tiles are level to each other.
I've worked on Car dealership showrooms and indoor shopping malls. They have specced full through porcelain tiles.
The install must be full contact without any voids to give the most protection against breakage.
Be sure the tile you purchase is from the same lot. It will have a color and a size number on the boxes. Different lots will be sized differently and the color will be off to each other.
You have a smooth level non cracked surface.
Are the mudded over expansion joints still not cracked?
Is your garage temperature controlled year round?
Yes you will need crack suppression under the tile. I like a stick down product that adheres to the floor and provides a texture for the thinset to adhere to.
The bigger the tile the more flat your floor needs to be. Bigger tile means less grout to care for after the install.
Your grout size is up to you and what look you want. Rectified tile will allow a thinner grout line.
I like the leveling tabs with wedges to assure tiles are level to each other.
I've worked on Car dealership showrooms and indoor shopping malls. They have specced full through porcelain tiles.
The install must be full contact without any voids to give the most protection against breakage.
Be sure the tile you purchase is from the same lot. It will have a color and a size number on the boxes. Different lots will be sized differently and the color will be off to each other.
Thanks butchdsd, I didn't pour over the existing slab. The slab was poured 22 years ago
Thanks Wayne for your thoughtful answers.
You said:
"Are the mudded over expansion joints still not cracked?" No, there isn't a crack to be seen.
"Is your garage temperature controlled year round?" No, I only heat or cool it when I'm working out there. It seldom gets below freezing here.
"They have specced full through porcelain tiles. I have been to many tile showrooms and every time I ask about full color through I get a blank stare, when I tell them I am going to tile my garage, most of them say I shouldn't do that. When I ask about PCI index, many of them have said they never get asked that question and are not sure what PCI means.
I still have some questions:
Do all Porcelain have the same strength? (PCI just rates the surface but how about the overall strength, is that something I should be concerned about?
I read about Vitrified tiles (where they add glass substrate for strength and scratch resistance). Is that something I should look for and if so, how would I know if a tile is Vitrified?
I just talked with a tile installer (who sounded like he knew his business) he said I just need to look for Italian Porcelain that has color all the way though. What do you think? He also advised me not to go to Bedrosians, Home Depot, ABC Tile or Floors and Decor.
Shea
Well-known member
Check out this thread here by resident GJ member Dakota. He is one of the experts and has answered hundreds of questions.
PEI 4 or 5 rated tile has a compressive strength exceeding 20,000 lbs per square foot. Do not pay attention to breaking strength. This is calculated by spanning the tile over a predetermined gap and then measuring how much force it takes to break the tile. The key to a successful installation is to back butter the tiles and make sure there are no air pockets under the tile or at the edges. Many of the leveling clips create these air pockets and should be avoided. They are fine for foot traffic, but not vehicle traffic where the heavy weight under a tire can break an edge of the tile.
Wayne67vert
Well-known member
The thread by Dakota is a great referral. He explains the process very well.
Check in your area for wholesale tile distributors.. You will find the tile you want with them. They may or may not sell direct to you. If not they will send you to one of their customers.
Check in your area for wholesale tile distributors.. You will find the tile you want with them. They may or may not sell direct to you. If not they will send you to one of their customers.
I used the MLT tile lippage system for my garage floor. 1400 square feet of porcelain tile(12 inches wide X 48 inches long). The garage sees traffic from a 1.5 ton...60 H.P. tractor and many vehicles in-between....
Zero cooling or heating(except for special events...2-3 times per year)... The tile is set directly on the slab using Ardex X5. No membrane...no decoupling mats..etc..
Three years after the completion of the tile job...I've yet to find a cracked or popped tile.
Not sure if this helps....I did grind almost a ton of material from the original slab to get it within 1/16 of an inch over 15 feet....
Zero cooling or heating(except for special events...2-3 times per year)... The tile is set directly on the slab using Ardex X5. No membrane...no decoupling mats..etc..
Three years after the completion of the tile job...I've yet to find a cracked or popped tile.
Not sure if this helps....I did grind almost a ton of material from the original slab to get it within 1/16 of an inch over 15 feet....
Shea, You say "PEI 4 or 5 rated tile has a compressive strength exceeding 20,000 lbs per square foot. Do not pay attention to breaking strength" Why not pay attention to breaking strength? I watched the video from Dakota but it only gave insights into laying the tile, not selecting the tile.
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Thanks to this forum and my research, the following is what I am going to use for my garage floor. Please comment or make suggestions to help me:
Porcelain
12 X 24 because it is most common and larger might crack easier
Rectified - yes (all edges are cut to insure squareness)
PIE rating of 4 or 5 (highest scratch resistance)
Vitrified - Not sure if this is necessary or applicable to porcelain tile
Through body or colored body - colored body because through body is hard to get and my be expensive (not sure of this)
Slip resistance - rating of R11 through R13
Glazed but not polished
Not sure if all Porcelain Tiles have the same strength, breakability.
Porcelain
12 X 24 because it is most common and larger might crack easier
Rectified - yes (all edges are cut to insure squareness)
PIE rating of 4 or 5 (highest scratch resistance)
Vitrified - Not sure if this is necessary or applicable to porcelain tile
Through body or colored body - colored body because through body is hard to get and my be expensive (not sure of this)
Slip resistance - rating of R11 through R13
Glazed but not polished
Not sure if all Porcelain Tiles have the same strength, breakability.
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duneslider
Well-known member
PEI has nothing to do with compressive strength. It is ONLY the ability of the glaze to withstand abrasion. It is a destructive abrasion resistance test. Any PEI 4-5 is more than good enough for flooring.
I honestly don't see a lot of Through-body porcelain anymore. I really only see it in commercial places and it has distinct look that you don't see in residential work too much. What is more common is a Color Body Porcelain. Color body has a body color similar to the glaze on top. THis way, if you do get a chip or scratch it is less noticeable than say a red clay tile that has a white glaze. Through body tile has no glaze and is the same color/pattern top to bottom.
All tile, even cheap garbage, will have a higher compressive strength than concrete. If I am not mistaken, Jack and his infamous 12 Gauge garage used a cheap tile and I think a clay based tile and not porcelain. Works fine, just have to pick a tile that you want to look at for a long long time.
They change the standards of slip resistance fairly often so the new numbers don't mean much to me. I would buy a few and test them to see if they meet YOUR needs.
If you pick polished you are going to have to come to a compromise with the slip resistance issue.
Rectified just means all 4 edges have been cut, which should mean all the tiles are exactly the same size. If they aren't rectified then there could be some minor size differences due to shrinking when they were fired. Good quality tile should be fairly consistent.
A lot of time at the discount places is not "first" quality. Doesn't mean its bad, just means the firsts were culled out and sold elsewhere. Usually it is a slightly higher difference is size differences.
I wouldn't say Bedrosians is a discount store. They are actually one of my favorites, I think 95% of the tile in my house is from bedrosians.
All porcelain tile is "vitrified". The only real advantage to porcelain is a lower water absorption but that only matters in freeze thaw climates really.
I honestly don't see a lot of Through-body porcelain anymore. I really only see it in commercial places and it has distinct look that you don't see in residential work too much. What is more common is a Color Body Porcelain. Color body has a body color similar to the glaze on top. THis way, if you do get a chip or scratch it is less noticeable than say a red clay tile that has a white glaze. Through body tile has no glaze and is the same color/pattern top to bottom.
All tile, even cheap garbage, will have a higher compressive strength than concrete. If I am not mistaken, Jack and his infamous 12 Gauge garage used a cheap tile and I think a clay based tile and not porcelain. Works fine, just have to pick a tile that you want to look at for a long long time.
They change the standards of slip resistance fairly often so the new numbers don't mean much to me. I would buy a few and test them to see if they meet YOUR needs.
If you pick polished you are going to have to come to a compromise with the slip resistance issue.
Rectified just means all 4 edges have been cut, which should mean all the tiles are exactly the same size. If they aren't rectified then there could be some minor size differences due to shrinking when they were fired. Good quality tile should be fairly consistent.
A lot of time at the discount places is not "first" quality. Doesn't mean its bad, just means the firsts were culled out and sold elsewhere. Usually it is a slightly higher difference is size differences.
I wouldn't say Bedrosians is a discount store. They are actually one of my favorites, I think 95% of the tile in my house is from bedrosians.
All porcelain tile is "vitrified". The only real advantage to porcelain is a lower water absorption but that only matters in freeze thaw climates really.
duneslider
Well-known member
No way to answer that. All porcelain tile with a pei 4-5 rating will do the same thing, I honestly can't say I have seen a porcelain tile that wasn't a pei 4-5. It might exist but in the places I buy from it just isn't available. It comes down to more what you are wanting and what look you want.
If you want a super tight grout joint (1/16") then you really need rectified tile, that typically costs more. If you are good with 1/8" joints then pretty much any tile will work with a good installer. If you aren't gonna have a good installer then look at 3/16" joints which now seem gigantic to me but 20 years ago that was all I did. I do pretty much everything at 1/8" now days unless someone is paying big money for tighter.
Just as an example, this tile from bedrosians I have been using a lot and seen a lot. It is a pretty high seller for them. Metro Tile I would assume it would be a fine tile for a garage. The only garages I have done have been realtor sales offices for model homes. I'm too cheap and do too much stupid stuff to tile my own garage.
I went to HD, Floor Decor and Lowe's looking for their remnant/sale stuff. Wanted PEI 4 or 5, grey(ish) in color, thru color if I could find it.
I found this stuff at Lowe's for $0.65/ft. I didn't lay it, but the guy was pretty tired of me looking over his shoulder the entire time to make sure he back buttered every square inch, lol. I was paying for materials separate, so all the thin set was on my ticket.
It's been down 18 months or so and we love it. So easy to clean, and super tough. I have one small chip where a magnet drill fell to the floor when I mistook the on/off motor for the on/off magnet switch?!?! It fell from 8 feet to the tile and knocked out a 1/4x1/2 inch chip.
I think if you're patient and know what volume you need, you should be able to find good tile for around a buck a foot?
MR
I found this stuff at Lowe's for $0.65/ft. I didn't lay it, but the guy was pretty tired of me looking over his shoulder the entire time to make sure he back buttered every square inch, lol. I was paying for materials separate, so all the thin set was on my ticket.
It's been down 18 months or so and we love it. So easy to clean, and super tough. I have one small chip where a magnet drill fell to the floor when I mistook the on/off motor for the on/off magnet switch?!?! It fell from 8 feet to the tile and knocked out a 1/4x1/2 inch chip.
I think if you're patient and know what volume you need, you should be able to find good tile for around a buck a foot?
MR
