time to repipe the house

[Garett]

So far my Garage plumbing is good(knock on wood), this is in my house...

Well, I've been in this house for just over 4 years. It was built in 1984 and had an extensive renovation in 2008. Since I've been here I've encountered 5 pinhole leaks in the hot water copper lines. Some I had patched with copper, when I did the laundry rooms I replaced with pex. The 2 latest leaks have been between the 1st and 2nd floor, the copper ******* out of the pipes in multiple places.

Now we have drywall opened up in every other room, ceilings open in many places. There is one laundry room and one bathroom that have 3/4" and 1/2" upanor PEX A. My plumber suggests to leave it as he says it should outlast the home. I asked if it would be wise to replace it with the same stuff because we don't know how old this is, he says we can be he wouldn't.

Anybody have a take on the lifespan of PEX and PEX A? Would you leave it? I'd like to replace but then $ is a slight factor, and would I do the whole 2800' home in PEX A?

Side note, another plumber replaced all the plumbing in the ceiling of a 3x8' hallway just 2 months ago for $700. This junction is the middle of the house, it splits to the kitchens and bathrooms and laundry from this point. Yesterday by chance we discovered its leaking from the PEX fittings in 5 different places. It looks like the crimp bands were not put on square and also maybe his tool is out of adjustment. We had to drop that ceiling again and if the water is on there is a bucket under it. That plumber is coming in today to have a look, I've already hired another plumber to do the rest of the house. I'm in auto service and I always let the original shop take a crack at their comeback. This is my house and it involves more drywall and paint, kinda don't trust the first guy so I'm letting the new guys redo it.

 

[rlitman]

If your copper is getting pinhole leaks, it sounds to me like a water chemistry problem. Are you on city or well water?

Brass fittings on PEX can corrode in the same conditions that erode your copper. If that's your problem, I'd suggest plastic fittings.

Yes, that PEX SHOULD outlast your home.

 

[nutjob]

I would replace everything and use that to verify what the PEX fittings are used and this makes sure you are using the real Uponor brand PEX.
I would only use the Uponor PEX A or ProPEX and make sure all the fittings are PEX A. If your plumber does not have the Milwaukee M12 PEX tool, buy it for him to use.

Suuplyhouse.com has some great info on all this. Bottom line, PEX does not like to change state, it always wants to return to its "normal" size. So do you want to have a push on fitting with a band clamp that the PEX is always pushing out against or the PEX A with the ring that gets expanded and is always trying to tighten onto the fittings?

Kevin

 

[gayler]

I would not have spices anywhere you cannot access them. I like everything to go back to a common manifold.

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

Copper lines that are that old should not be leaking like that.

I am assuming that pex is allowed in your jurisdiction now?


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[rlitman]

Copper lines that are that old should not be leaking like that...

They should not, but pinholes are a common issue when the water pH is too low.

 

[kbs2244]

Reverse osmosis is a common reason for pinhole leaks in copper.
I fully agree on the no splices and a manifold layout.
If possible, put the manifold exposed in a closet.
PEX is cheap and easy enough that having side by side runs without branching is worth it.

 

[6768rogues]

I had a friend who lived west of Philadelphia and their water was acidic, so it would eat copper piping. He had a system to neutralize the water. When the water felt squeaky instead of slippery, he knew he needed to service the system. I would get a test for acidity or see if it is common in your area. If you use PEX, use plastic fittings and not copper if your water is eating copper.

 

[Garett]

I'm on city water. Most of the copper in the house was made by a Canadian company called Wolverine, I've heard the pipe is basically defective and affects many homes in my area.

If fast forwarded this vid I made in Feb to a leaking pipe, this is how it starts. 2 months later some of the lines I didnt change are streaming out a line of water as fine as a hair, others are much more than that.

We are now also looking at more PEX thats currently running to the upstairs bathrooms. It's called Oxypex Flexet Infinity and its date stamped 2001, what to do, what to do now? Will have to open up more celing to replace.

heres that vid from Feb,

 

[stonesfan68]

My neighborhood flooded after Hurricane Harvey. Many of my neighbors and I replaced the galvanized plumbing in our homes with Uponor PEX. None of us installed a manifold because none of the plumbers recommended it. I know of three different plumbers who did the jobs on my street. The manifolds fail, apparently.

 

[johnnyradiant]

Everything fails but I would hazard to guess your actual Uponor pipe (not crimp fittings) is still good to go. After uncovering bad fittings though I would want to do the whole house now and gain the piece of mind that you will have eliminated all other bad fittings. I would also suggest using the Uponor fittings where needed and consider using home runs where practical. The cost of all now as opposed to some now and some later will likely be less and way less if the some later also includes some flood damage. Not to mention the interruption in life by this issue is now only limited to one time by doing it all now.

 

[siegsuwa]

I used PEX B when I repiped my small home (1.5 bath, laundry room, kitchen) last January and highly recommend a home-run system. I used the copper crimp rings, brass fittings, and I feel confident in them. I used copper manifolds in the basement with stop valves.

One of the reasons I chose to plan out the home-run system is that it allowed me to bring online individual water circuits while I was working on everything, as I was still living in the house when I was working on everything. Additionally, there are no fittings or crimps hidden in my walls. With the home runs, there is a crimp at the manifold, and a crimp at the point of use stop valve. Gave me peace of mind for in-wall runs, and allows for future serviceability if needed.

If the copper crimps are done correctly, they will hold up just fine. I was impressed at how hard they clamp the PEX down. Even after the crimp was cut off, the PEX itself was so molded to the fitting barb, it took a lot of effort to separate.

 

[sixty4]

I use a product from viega called fostapex. I have had zero issues with the quality, even have it in my own house. One thing to consider is to up size when replacing copper to pex. If it's 1/2" copper we go 3/4 pex. The fittings on all brands of pex are restrictive for flow and if you swap like for like you will notice a difference.

 

[matt_i]

I have no experience with holey copper but does the brass do OK in similar water conditions, or is it just thicker and survives the chemical attack longer?

 

[rlitman]

I have no experience with holey copper but does the brass do OK in similar water conditions, or is it just thicker and survives the chemical attack longer?

Brass can actually be worse than copper, and bad brass formulations (this was particularly an issue when lead-free brass first hit the market) were known to de-zincify, which would turn the brass into a brittle foam that failed spectacularly.

If your water is suspect, then by all means go all plastic (particularly if a fitting will be hidden). The only down side to plastic fittings it that the ID is a little smaller, so they effect flow a little more. But with PEX, you shouldn't have all that many fittings anyway.

 

[volvosrock]

Ours is a well house that had thin wall copper. Pinhole leaks are normal at the end of thin wall service life.

I re plumbed the entire house for less than $1000, including tools. Manifold system and home runs.




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[volvosrock]

Don’t know why the pics doubled, but having circuit breakers for each fixture is awesome.


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[fourjeepin]

Plumbers are expensive. If you are handy, you should DIY this. It is not a difficult job,just time consuming. I replaced a ton of polybutylene in my basement with pex and want to replace the cpvc, but it is only a few years old. I first hired a plumber to replace a large section of the polybutylene, then did the rest myself after seeing how easy it was.

Oh, and copper pin holes are common here, too.

 

[johnnyradiant]

Most every single fixture in your house is restricted to something around 3/8" or less, not including any water mizer additions at the spout. If you switch to one size up in your pipe and do home runs what you will notice most is the added time it takes to get hot water out of your taps.

 

[Daedalus]

Ours is a well house that had thin wall copper. Pinhole leaks are normal at the end of thin wall service life.

I re plumbed the entire house for less than $1000, including tools. Manifold system and home runs.




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That's badass. Very nice work.

Is that manifold well insulated? Or does the heat not make it to the manifold if the hot water isn't running?

 

[volvosrock]

That's badass. Very nice work.



Is that manifold well insulated? Or does the heat not make it to the manifold if the hot water isn't running?

Thanks, I like it so much I did the same in a rental I rehabbed last year.

I don’t know, but I would imagine there’s not much insulation between the hot and cold sides at all. With that never noticed an issue with transfer. Hot water is reasonably responsive. Farthest run is ~30’ or so.


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[Garett]

That manifold setup is pretty, if I had more time and nobody living here I would have looked into it.

When I had the initial consult I knew an expert that had done this many times before would know the tricks and shortcuts that would same downtime and money. I was sold by the plumber saying they could sneak the new lines in with minimal cuts, they have run lines behind crown moldings if is makes sense. It's exactly how it is when I see somebody working on a car all wrong, way too much time and struggle when there is a better way to do it, I figured an expert in the field could do it smarter/better.

It basically took 2 guys 4 full days, 2 of cutting drywall and 2 of plumbing. At one point I turned my back for 20 min, came back and ceilings opened up huge in 2 rooms. While it was happening I thought to myself, Had I have known this much drywall was coming out I would have sent everybody living in the house for vacation and just done it myself.

Drywall begins today, hoping to be completed next week! Considering the last minor repair took insurance 2.5 months to complete, overall I'm please this work is maybe 10x the job and will be done in possibly 1/5th the time. I don't want to jinx the repair timeline.