TING Electrical Surveillance - State Farm

[justsam]

I just received a letter from my State Farm Insurance agent inviting me to a FREE 3 year trial of this technology. https://www.tingfire.com

I was not aware of this product but it appears to make use of the AFCI type technology for sensing, and then reports to a central station and to an app on your phone.

Of course nothing is free and they will be collecting data important to them during the trial. It also does not hurt that State Farm Investment has provided some capital funding to TING/Whisker Labs.

Has any one here used something like this before? I do have AFCI breakers in the bedrooms as required. If of real value perhaps this becomes yet another requirement such as smoke detectors, carbon monoxide, etc. For life/safety I would have no issue.

 

[Wrench97]

I'd prefer to keep my insurance company out of bedroom, house and OBD II port.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I'd prefer to keep my insurance company out of bedroom, house and OBD II port.

 

[Toyo72]

^^^^
+2

 

[Git]

My insurance company (Hippo) sent me a similar device, but they also offered a discount for using it. It is basically a wifi hub and two sensors. The sensor can be set up to monitor different things. I have one for water leaks under the water heater and the other to monitor the temp in the garage. I actually find them to be helpful, so no big deal


https://getnotion.com/pages/myhippo

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My insurance company (Hippo) sent me a similar device, but they also offered a discount for using it. It is basically a wifi hub and two sensors. The sensor can be set up to monitor different things. I have one for water leaks under the water heater and the other to monitor the temp in the garage. I actually find them to be helpful, so no big deal


https://getnotion.com/pages/myhippo

I can do the same with my simplisafe system and not have my insurance company spying on me...

 

[Eric29]

Does Ting work? I’m not sure how it could monitor for an arc fault in all the circuits when it is just plugged into one. Or do I misunderstand what it is supposed to do?

 

[tim-ben]

I heard about the State Farm offer from my brother in AZ. I checked out the site. Not a trial I think? It's free for 3 years, brother expects after the 3rd year they'll either charge a nominal fee, or may continue it free. I looked at the ting (goes by tingfire) site. Seems they see the whole electrical system from one outlet. As I understand it any arc big or tiny sends unique impulses that travel at very high frequencies and throughout the home (apparently same as lightning, but on a much smaller scale of course) - they seem to have figured out how to distinguish good (dimmers, switches drills, motors, etc) arcing from 'bad' arcing, and early in their development, it seems. Well before an AFCI would kick in. Looking at their site it seems they can see developing faults in devices/appliances. And can distinguish things like a loose neutral at a transformer vs inside the home.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I heard about the State Farm offer from my brother in AZ. I checked out the site. Not a trial I think? It's free for 3 years, brother expects after the 3rd year they'll either charge a nominal fee, or may continue it free. I looked at the ting (goes by tingfire) site. Seems they see the whole electrical system from one outlet. As I understand it any arc big or tiny sends unique impulses that travel at very high frequencies and throughout the home (apparently same as lightning, but on a much smaller scale of course) - they seem to have figured out how to distinguish good (dimmers, switches drills, motors, etc) arcing from 'bad' arcing, and early in their development, it seems. Well before an AFCI would kick in. Looking at their site it seems they can see developing faults in devices/appliances. And can distinguish things like a loose neutral at a transformer vs inside the home.

Yeah right. Sounds like snake oil.

I highly doubt they can do all that....

 

[Will S.]

What do they get when you're out in your shop, arc welding?

 

[justsam]

Entry fee for me right now is free so will see what it is all about. I too am skeptical of the claims on the web site. Not sure how it will deal with our single phase 240 center tap neutral system with out putting a device on each side.

I receive a discount on insurance for having a centrally monitored fire system, (2gig Technology) so if they also make this an incentive I will listen.

In regard to arc welding, I do some TIG welding, that uses high freq. start, so that should be a test for it.

 

[laser3kw]

I heard about the State Farm offer from my brother in AZ. I checked out the site. Not a trial I think? It's free for 3 years, brother expects after the 3rd year they'll either charge a nominal fee, or may continue it free. I looked at the ting (goes by tingfire) site. .....

After three years charge a "nominal fee"? Why would I pay them to possible give me a small discount?
Basically, they are data mining for three years and adjusting rates, not only for the "user", but for everyone regardless whether they have the system or not. It is how they actuaries develop their algorithms to set rates. it justify rate hikes across the board.

 

[jeepxj]

After three years charge a "nominal fee"? Why would I pay them to possible give me a small discount?
Basically, they are data mining for three years and adjusting rates, not only for the "user", but for everyone regardless whether they have the system or not. It is how they actuaries develop their algorithms to set rates. it justify rate hikes across the board.

adjusting rates? on what basis? what values on the tables would be adjusted with this information? they're looking to prevent a total house claim for a fire.

 

[joe_padavano]

This is in the same vein as those monitors that plug into the OBD port on your car and tattle to the insurance company when you speed. Yeah, the insurance company is doing it as a benefit to you.

 

[Vinci]

There is no way I would hook up a company's device to my network. There is way too much incentive to gather valuable data that you don't think you're authorizing. Consider "home assistants" and doorbell cameras. Those have been proven over and over to send data out that the owner didn't intend.

 

[Zmann]

Entry fee for me right now is free so will see what it is all about. I too am skeptical of the claims on the web site.


In regard to arc welding, I do some TIG welding, that uses high freq. start, so that should be a test for it.

just the type of information they need to cancel you

 

[andyvh1959]

I agree on all counts. To me, insurance is a necessary "evil" of a sort, that only pays for some of itself when/if you have a claim. Then all the money you've paid up front can come back in coverage. The other aspect of an insurance company is profit, pure and simple, they're in it to make money, off your and mine money. To that end they make more money by "helping us" save by not making claims.

My brother got one of those "drive safe discount" OBDII plug in devices for his car, claiming 15 to 30% savings by driving safe. My brother is a very capable driver, with a good amount of track experience in his John Cooper Works Mini-Cooper (300+HP). But he likes to drive assertively. I reminded him the device he plugged in also can sense and transmit G-force data to the server. As such it gives the server ample data to suggest he is less than a safe driver. So I for one will not have such a device in any of my vehicles.

For instance, say I put one in my company provided Ford Escape, which features front radar adaptive cruise control. It is very good at maintaining a following distance I choose. But, if a car passes me on a multi-lane highway, and moves quickly in front of me, the system freaks out and applies the brakes, quite hard. So even though I am driving safely, using my driving techniques, and the adaptive cruise to maintain safe following distance, the monitor system would record me applying sudden high effort braking at highway speed. That could easily happen many times a month, as I drive 2,000 to 3,000 miles a month for work. So the monitor system would record me as a potential unsafe driver, and void any potential driver discount savings.

But, it really means the system is regularly recording my activities and judging my actions and choices without knowing the full perspective of the events. Same for the monitor in your house. So, no "money saving" monitors in my vehicles or home. My argument with my State Farm agent about the car monitor, is why do I have to install this OBDII device to perhaps save some dollars. When, in my 30+ years of State Farm as my insurer, I've never had a claim on my vehicle insurance. Seems I should be accumulating at least 5% discount per year up to some maximum. Now, I like my State Farm agent, he's always done a great job. I just get irked when I see these deals and devices for "safe" drivers when I have well over 500,000 claim free miles. Hell, I have over 300,000 claim free miles of riding motorcycles for 47+ years. To me, as a claims free client, I should be getting the lowest possible rates, even lower than the drivers using the "Safe Driver App" ****. Maybe I'm just full of myself, but I don't feel any monitoring device is going to make me a safer driver.

 

[MoonRise]

I don't feel like looking into the specs on the ting tech doodads, but there IS tech that can 'read' the incoming power (at the main feed lines) and then it can pick up and 'learn' (with some human inputs back in the 'lab' what all the 'normal' electrical 'noise' is.

For instance, it is sensitive enough to detect and pick up the spark ignition pulses on a furnace and track them over time. Ignition pulses 'change' and the furnace needs some sort of service or maintenance.

It can track ALL the electrical usage and eventually identify ALL of what is happening electrically in the house. Turn on a TV, run a dishwasher, the fridge kicks on, your AC unit running, a vacuum cleaner, a coffee maker, lights, fans, computer.

EVERYTHING.

Interesting and SCARY tech with just how much info that can come from the electrical 'noise' on the lines.

 

[pepi]

Some folks are so easy and ready give up their privacy it's astounding & pitiful .

 

[andyvh1959]

For sure! In large part that includes the, to me, ominous intrusion of the "smart" phone into our lives. Yes, I like the convenience of instant info no matter where I am in the world. But, I bet within 20 years at most no one will be able to do commerce unless they have a smart phone permanently logged into the web. And with that the ability of the device on or near your person to monitor everything you do 100% on the time.

The smart phone really only became prominent on the general public starting in about 2007, but in less than ten years it has already become a near necessity to function daily. As more and more of daily life becomes dependent on the damn smart phone they'll eventually be able to devise any process or system for it and the greater public will have little choice to refuse it. Sounds like the basic story line of every Bond film since the early 60's. Big Brother is already in nearly everyone's pocket. As I type this, the Kingsmen Secret Service movie is on TV, and some of the parallels in the movie to life as it is changing is disturbing. Once again, I'm kinda glad I'm 63 and not 23.

 

[dcg9381]

I'd prefer to keep my insurance company out of bedroom, house and OBD II port.

Oh, I dunno. Last I saw someone over on reddit has a great ODB-II "perfect driver" simulator that you could plug that dongle into..

 

[dcg9381]

adjusting rates? on what basis? what values on the tables would be adjusted with this information? they're looking to prevent a total house claim for a fire.

The value is in the data - perhaps - but we don't know what data they are really collecting.

But sure, if they deployed enough of these, they could easily determine if these devices can detect or prevent fires - enough to impact the actuarial tables and rates. It's kinda an odd case - how many homes burn down due to arc-fault related fires... And I don't think houses were required to be fully arc-fault until after 2009 NEC? I know we're not compliant on new homes where I am.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Oh, I dunno. Last I saw someone over on reddit has a great ODB-II "perfect driver" simulator that you could plug that dongle into..

lmao that would be funny. plug the device into a simulator that makes it look like one is a good driver. wonder if the rates would drop...

 

[slow]

all they need is a gps or an accelerometer to identify the obd2 perfect driver is fake. not to mention they can get vin, drive cycles, mileage, and lots of other information off the obd2 port. I think most of those devices have an accelerometer, a friend had one in his 03 cobra years ago, and it may have beeped at me when I did a quick 1-2 pull...

 

[ttpete]

I have a device called a Car Chip that plugs in and monitors a whole lot including speed, acceleration, heavy braking, system events, engine temps, a miss detector, and many more things. You plug it into a laptop and print out a complete report of everything that happened during the drive period. It even knows if it's unplugged and plugged back in.

It's kind of scary. And I don't want anybody else to know, either.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

all they need is a gps or an accelerometer to identify the obd2 perfect driver is fake. not to mention they can get vin, drive cycles, mileage, and lots of other information off the obd2 port. I think most of those devices have an accelerometer, a friend had one in his 03 cobra years ago, and it may have beeped at me when I did a quick 1-2 pull...

I bet someone with electronics skill and obdII knowledge could outsmart it

 

[andyvh1959]

I just don't like the idea of being monitored even more than I am already being watched, like my current smart phone always knowing/recording where I've been.

My employer provides my smart phone, and my company car. In the event something happens on the road i fully expect the first thing my employer will do is check my smart phone activity versus my driving activity to see if i am personally the cause of whatever event i get into. That's fine, the company pays for my smart phone, and provides me the company car for my personal use also. So when driving it I am more diligent, and that impacts my driving in general when I drive my personal vehicles, makes me a better driver overall.

 

[laser3kw]

The value is in the data - perhaps - but we don't know what data they are really collecting.

I guarantee you they collect ALL the data. It's a matter of sorting it out as needed. They look for trends then try to quantify what those trends are.

 

[andyvh1959]

My State Farm agent once commented how much I drive per year, which in the recent past was about 20,000 miles per year, a bit more than average. I was curious why he commented, and he said "the higher yearly miles may put you in a higher premium range." Huh? So rather than considering my no-claims driving records of four decades, its the yearly miles that is more relative to my rates? Rates are based more per miles than per year or decade?

I understand actuary impact on insurance because they analyze risk versus cost, being based as much on probability as statistics. So I suppose any one mile driven is as likely to crash as is 100,000 miles per year.