Tips needed: Sway bar links

[abvw]

I've had enough of this ****, seriously. The customers never wants to pay for them while repairing their vehicle's front end, 90% of the time I have to reuse them. This puts the hammer, grinder and torch out of the equation...

The 5mm hex bolstered stud/ball joint usually gets rotted out, it's not even worth trying.

I've destroyed every pair of visegrips in the shop trying to keep the stud from spinning, the jaws are either too thick to fit, too weak (using smaller pliers), or the teeth's too soft. This happens whether I use a wrench, ratchet or impact wrench on the nut.

I've tried pry bar and impact, it works on tie rod ends and ball joints, but rarely on bar links.

I'm out of ideas!!!! What do you guys do?

 

[SKAutomotive]

Tell them up front that there is a good chance they will be needing new sway bar links.

 

[devoncoolman]

Cut em off and replace them. If it cant be removed easily we just automaticaly figure it in to the labor time and add it in to the parts. Where we are 90% of the time you cant reuse sway links there just way to rusty to mess with. If im doing struts and the links are in ok shape i have the slim snap-on vice grips that work fairly well at getting between the sway boot and strut. Try them out if you havent already.

 

[theknurl]

cut and replace.....why **** around?

use bolt cutters, 20 seconds and put the new ones on

 

[blacK20]

Ya tell them from the get go that there may be other parts needed during the repair. The customer brought their vehicle to YOU for help. Therefor you steer the ship. Don't let the customer take control of the situation. But to answer your question... vise grips usually work. Wire brush the stud threads to clean off the gunk and rust, spray penetrant on stud, grab HARD(I can't express this enough) with vise grips, impact on nut.

 

[abvw]

Tell them up front that there is a good chance they will be needing new sway bar links.

When customers bring in their vehicles with a problem, they really expect only one problem/damaged part. You start listing affected parts and they start looking at you funny.

I hate this ****, like changing scored/rusty rotors and reuse the old pads.... "Customer's not paying. "

"Customer's not paying. "

"Customer's not paying. "

 

[Mr.Nutcase]

torch the nut with map gas, hold the stud with vicegrips

 

[SKAutomotive]

When customers bring in their vehicles with a problem, they really expect only one problem/damaged part. You start listing affected parts and they start looking at you funny.

Then, I would call the customer up and tell them since they do not wish to replace them, they will be responsible for removing them for reuse.

There are plenty of reasonable, not cheap customers in the world. If you are always honest with them, then they will understand that you are telling them this because the probability is high. If you get them off and can reuse them, the customer gets a bonus.

Under-promise, over-deliver.

 

[abvw]

There are plenty of reasonable, not cheap customers in the world. If you are always honest with them, then they will understand that you are telling them this because the probability is high. If you get them off and can reuse them, the customer gets a bonus.

Back to square one... I can't be cutting off every bar link without hesitation.

 

[SKAutomotive]

Back to square one... I can't be cutting off every bar link without hesitation.

How are you back to step one? Only a terrible mechanic would just go straight to cutting them off.

Customer comes in for repair A. Customer is told that repair A means you have to remove part B and part B doesn't usually come off due to wear, tear ad corrosion. You advise them that they will most likely need to have those replaced and they will need to pay the cost of parts. Since you have to remove it anyway, there is no extra labor to charge outside of what the labor the current job pays. You try to take them off without damaging, if unsuccessful, you do what needs to be done to get them off and the customer pays the already expected price of parts. If you get them off, customer gets a lower than expected bill.

Either which way, price doesn't go up beyond what they expect, and you don't eat the cost of parts.

 

[CJM8515]

Factor it into the price of the job before you even start. Chances are they are worn out anyways. Whats a set of end links, 20-30 bucks at most?

 

[BlksnshN]

Like SK said, inform them from the start that it is likely they will not be reusable and that the parts are cheaper than paying your labor to try to save junk parts.

I used to be just like you, killing myself to save parts that are way past savable. It's not good for your stress level and it's not good for your bottom line. It's nice to save the customer some money but not when it's going to cause you to lose money/time.

If they won't pay, tell them they are welcome to come and get their vehicle.

 

[Outlander]

My mechanic always explains the parts or shows me the old ones. Once he had a hard time removing something and he took the time to show me the old part and explained why the labor was higher than expected. Made sense to me.

All I want is no surprises when I inform the "minister of finance" that 'that old truck' is going to cost another $500 It never occurs to me to say anything beyond 'thanks' and pay the bill.

 

[Skin]

vise grips usually work. Wire brush the stud threads to clean off the gunk and rust, spray penetrant on stud, grab HARD(I can't express this enough) with vise grips, impact on nut.

Vise-Grips never work on the studs. Also the stud is only sticking out one side so trying to grip it and use a socket is a no go. Only way to grab them with vise grips is to snap the cap off the back and clamp on the joint itself.


OP, simply factor them into the cost of the repair. Aftermarket only run around $15-$20 per side. Its not a hard sell.

 

[blacK20]

Vise-Grips never work on the studs. Also the stud is only sticking out one side so trying to grip it and use a socket is a no go. Only way to grab them with vise grips is to snap the cap off the back and clamp on the joint itself.


OP, simply factor them into the cost of the repair. Aftermarket only run around $15-$20 per side. Its not a hard sell.

We must have different links in mind... Are we talking something like this?
http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/aut.../sway_bar_link_oem_48830_20010_4883020010.jpg

 

[raboyto2]

Heres what I've done for the last two sets.

Knipex Cobra pliers. The have a narrow head, and bite really hard. Because of the narrow head you can usually get the pliers between the boot and control arm tab leaving the nut exposed for an impact. I stand (all my weight, like in the knipex demonstrations

) while someone hits the nut with an impact.

 

[colin39]

Cut them off and replace we also jus qute them in on price as its cheaper in the long run then fcukin around for an hour or so trying to save the old ones.

colin

 

[mucksavage]

Work on my companies trucks! I recently took over maintenance duties on our 5 F150's & 3 Rangers. 3 of the F150's & 2 of the rangers were missing both end links!

 

[MattPersman]

All you can do is torch the nuts real good if you have to reuse them. I have gotten the snap on pliers wrench thing in there before, as well as the slim vise grips from snap on (grip on) in there as well. Sometimes you will damage the boot trying to get something to grip on the inside though. It does become something you need to quote up front there should be no additional labor, their problem should not become your problem.

 

[gungatim]

Tell the customer it is a "repair process consumable". Meaning there may be nothing wrong with it but in the process of repair it will need replacing. I explain it like this: You need a timing chain, the timing cover gasket is good, the water pump gasket is good, but they are destroyed when removing them to get to the timing chain. You wouldn't reuse those gaskets any more than you would reuse damanged say bar links or other rubber bushings etc. that get destroyed during a related repair.

 

[AndrewV]

I force the subject with my service manager. But it's all these damn cars/trucks from up north.
Had to replace a whole rear subframe assembly, because the struts were rusted solid, and the customer wanted it done. Pain in the ***.

 

[abvw]

The problem is bar links end up costing minimum of $50 here to the customer. Do you guys "sell" these collaterals at cost?

 

[Outlander]

Strange ideas floating around. I sell and deliver IT services. Some work is done on a time & materials basis. I am clear about what I will be doing, then bill for all work and 'material' (hardware, licenses etc). If I am providing an all inclusive managed service (think: rental car - it breaks I call a 1-800 number and walk away), then I factor in the costs associated with delivering that service.

Sounds like garages & dealers are T&M. Making sure to be upfront about what gets destroyed and replaced in the quote is the key.

Hack 'em off!

 

[volleyball]

I am assuming flat rate so the customer doesn't pay for your time so if you spend 4 hours, it doesn't affect their bill.
So as mentioned, just add it to the parts list and be done with it, rusted end links are weak and a safety issue.

 

[scarney1988]

2 Options....

Be up front that there is no reason to perform any front end repairs that would leave the vehicle without sway bar end links. Include them in the cost of the repair. i.e. To replace your control arms will be X dollars which includes new sway bar end links due to excessive corrosion. Cannot perform proper repair without new end links.

On some vehicles the sway bar can be dropped with the control arms leaving the links attached to the control arms. This only applies to some vehicles, but can be helpful depending on what you are doing.

.

 

[chickenhauler]

The problem is bar links end up costing minimum of $50 here to the customer. Do you guys "sell" these collaterals at cost?

Quote high, and adjust down when done. If nothing pops up, customer walks away cheaper than the quote, happy. If Murphy's Law prevails, customer "gets a deal" since there's more parts and roughly the same total bill, and is happy.

The best customers are the ones that understand **** happens, and just want it done right. Biggest thing is to be honest. When possible, I'll show them problems before I even start. Even when they don't have a clue, simply looking at all the crappy, rusted metal under their car seems to really help my position.

 

[MG44]

Just tell them their car is a piece of junk and needs more parts. Never had an issue with that approach.

 

[Skin]

We must have different links in mind... Are we talking something like this?
http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/aut.../sway_bar_link_oem_48830_20010_4883020010.jpg

Yep, you cant grip the stud, you can try to get a slim nose plier on the back but that rarely works. If you can break the housing off the back that's the best way.

In rust areas links are completely shot by 100k, quite a few have already fallen apart on their own.

The problem is bar links end up costing minimum of $50 here to the customer. Do you guys "sell" these collaterals at cost?

You shouldn't have to sell at cost, again they aren't a hard sell. Factor it into the job cost. If all your customers are questioning it then you either need new customers or to stop giving them enough information to question specific components replacements.

Even at cost though, what are you saving in labor time, which you're probably eating, by not having to mess with the old ones?

 

[blacK20]

Yep, you cant grip the stud, you can try to get a slim nose plier on the back but that rarely works. If you can break the housing off the back that's the best way.

In rust areas links are completely shot by 100k, quite a few have already fallen apart on their own.



You shouldn't have to sell at cost, again they aren't a hard sell. Factor it into the job cost. If all your customers are questioning it then you either need new customers or to stop giving them enough information to question specific components replacements.

Even at cost though, what are you saving in labor time, which you're probably eating, by not having to mess with the old ones?

Ya I grip the round part of the stud on the back side right before the boot. Works 9/10x. May take several tries and the key is to grip it tight. If you can close the visegrips with one hand, it's not tight enough.

 

[srmofo]

Price them into the job. Don't give them an option.

I really don't have that many issues though. Knock the rust off the threads with wire brush, apply heat, wax, impact with quick strong bursts, profit

 

[ChevyEFI]

Distract them from the dumb idea of keeping them by offering the cheap ones or the good / heavy duty / chrome / whatever ones. That decision will sway some people away from "uh, can't we re-use them?"

No, you *****. You're not in the desert.

 

[jfcasey]

It takes practice but if you can do surgery with a cut off wheel shave them down paper thin on the flats 180* apart while they are still tight. Then hit it with your impact sometimes the nut will just fall off. If it doesn't you can now whack it with a flat nose air hammer bit and the nut will come off without killing the threads. The part that takes practice is grinding the nut as close as you can without hitting the stud.


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[jfcasey]

You will also still need to source new nuts but that's cheaper than links.


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[greasemonkey44]

I have a snap on set of thin vice grips, they work well as do knipex cobras
If they look like **** I quote replacement, they are a wear item so it's an easy sell

 

[ndoran]

here in Ontario the sway bar links are consumable items due to the salt, usually run $50/side for parts.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I give people the run-down: IF I can save them, I will. If they fight, I cut them off. You sign the repair order approving ALL parts, and I'll save what I can.


I typically clamp on a set of needle-nose vice grips around the rubber boot area, and hit it with the 3/8 drive impact. I will not use more that 3/8 drive. I don't charge any extra labor if they need to come out anyways. You get "R&R" labor, not "Labor is free, save me money" labor. On a 60's Ferrari, I'll work to save your OE endlinks. On your cobalt getting quick-struts? I'm not even gonna try.


Best part is to gun off the sway bar nut, and remove the strut assembly with the other side still attached.

 

[Frosthy]

I force the subject with my service manager. But it's all these damn cars/trucks from up north.
Had to replace a whole rear subframe assembly, because the struts were rusted solid, and the customer wanted it done. Pain in the ***.

We (the techs in my shop) actually turn down work here and there from the Canadians that drive down because us "spoiled" FL people don't want to deal with the rust.

Problem for me though, the damn service writers won't add a pair of $40 end links to a quote because they're afraid the job won't sell. So then when I'm halfway through a job and **** goes south, I'm the one that's hung out to dry. They try to do the same thing with leaking wheel cylinders... "Does it really need wheel cylinders or is it just leaking a little?"

 

[abvw]

We (the techs in my shop) actually turn down work here and there from the Canadians that drive down because us "spoiled" FL people don't want to deal with the rust.

Problem for me though, the damn service writers won't add a pair of $40 end links to a quote because they're afraid the job won't sell. So then when I'm halfway through a job and **** goes south, I'm the one that's hung out to dry. They try to do the same thing with leaking wheel cylinders... "Does it really need wheel cylinders or is it just leaking a little?"

Ding ding ding we have a winner! We have customers that'll only come to our shop for oil changes because we are $2 cheaper than Canadian Tire, anything else, their uncle's cousin's son in law will fix it for them.

I think its a Toronto thing, people are so uptight and cheap about car repairs, and would start crying once you tell them their radiator is $200+labour and coolant on their $500 shitbox. Don't even mention about the bulging hoses, if they're not leaking when the vehicle comes in its not going to be replaced.

I just want to avoid all the confrontation with my service writer/manager and customers. They won't listen.

 

[Skin]

Ding ding ding we have a winner! We have customers that'll only come to our shop for oil changes because we are $2 cheaper than Canadian Tire, anything else, their uncle's cousin's son in law will fix it for them.

I think its a Toronto thing, people are so uptight and cheap about car repairs, and would start crying once you tell them their radiator is $200+labour and coolant on their $500 shitbox. Don't even mention about the bulging hoses, if they're not leaking when the vehicle comes in its not going to be replaced.

I just want to avoid all the confrontation with my service writer/manager and customers. They won't listen.

You price cheap, you get a reputation. Let it go on long enough and you'll have everyone in town bringing their junk to you for fixing. Start turning away customers they don't want to pay for repairs or ones that start to barter on costs like they're in some third world market.

The jobs stressful enough without dealing with those fools.