Tips on locating water lines before trenching

[JasonF]

Did a search but couldn't find much.
After my barn is built this summer I'm going to run utilities to it from the house which is approx 150' away. This will require some trenching with my problem being that I have an in ground sprinkler system around the house which reaches almost half way to were the barn will be. I bought the house last year and the system was already installed so I have no idea how the water lines were laid out. Does anyone know of a way to locate these without having to hand dig such a long stretch, through a lot of clay btw.

The way the zones are laid out it looks like I would have to cross 3, maybe 4 zones. It I were crossing maybe just one I would just consider hitting and repairing it later.
Any chance the company who did the install would keep any sketches around of the install?

 

[sselander]

fishing tape and a metal detector?

 

[Jmatlock88]

Call your free utility locating company to have them mark the main utilities. Dig your trench. Go ahead and hit the sprinkler lines. Spend $20 bucks in PVC pipe to fix the broken pipes and move on.

The best way to fix the pipes is for every line you hit, buy two couplings, one 90 degree elbow, one 90 degree street elbow, ~1.5 foot of pipe.

Cut back the mangled line, install a coupling, install a small length of pipe to the middle of the trench, install 90 degree elbow facing down. Starting from the other side, cut the mangled line, install a coupling, install a small length of pipe to the middle of the trench, install 90 degree street elbow facing up. Join the street elbow and the elbow in the middle of the trench by bending the pipe slightly to align them.

In case any dirt made it inside the pipes, you may have to run the sprinklers a bit then clean the traps out of a few sprinkler heads.

 

[LEVE]

When I installed a new 120' underground electrical service I called Call Before You Dig, 811. Within 4 days all the local utilities, phone, water and electrical had come to the site and did their magic and told me that no utilities were under the area I wanted to trench.

I trenched the area without incident.

 

[OrneryDuck]

Pretty-well covered already.

-Call before you dig service
-Repair as-needed any sprinkler lines.

This is exactly what a professional contractor would do in the same situation. Added bonus if you call for locates, you are protected if you hit an unmarked or mis-marked utility. If you did not call it in before-hand, you may be on the hook for repairs.

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

Utility locating services do not include your personal lines, only the public utilities.

That being said. Murphy's law--- Start trenching and you will find the underground sprinklers. There may also be a control wires from the main control panel to the valve manifolds depending where they are located. I also doubt that the installer has any specific layout of your system.

 

[Joe69]

A guy I work with says that he can use a couple of sticks as "divining rods". He swears it works. He's an old farmer, maybe there's something to it.

One of these days, I'm gonna try it over a known water line.

Joe

 

[sni-per]

Law requires "Call before you dig". I have done it with divining rods, and it is quite simple, but now-a-days, the law requires a phone call if any public utility is involved.

If no utility is involved, take 2 pieces of light wire, somewhere around 16 to 18 inches long. Make a 90 degree bend in the wires somewhere around 3 to 4 inches. Hold the short end of the wire LOOSELY in each hand, with the long ends pointing straight away from your body. Now walk slowly across the area, and if there is a water line, power, or gas buried beneath you, the wires will move toward each other. As you pass directly over the 'line' the wires will be at their most crossed position.

I locate a lot of utility lines, on cell tower sites, using this method, and if done right....it works every time.......with exception to fibre-optic cable.....and then I just let the professionals find them.

 

[oldtractors]

It doesn't matter if you think a utility is not involved, you still have to call. Once they say OK, you can start finding your personal utility lines, either by divining or by brute force with a trencher.

 

[ynned]

Around here, the owners of the utilities are requiredto mark their lines when notified. The notification is usually done through one call; some utilities use a locating service, others mark using their own personnel. Sprinkler sysrems should belong to the homeowner, and they'd be responsible for the locating. INOW, in Ohio and Pennsylvania at least, if it's your sprinkler, you're on your own.
Aren't the heads visible? Shouldn't the lines run from head to head? They usually are only a few inches deep, aren't they? Can't you uncover them at the heads and see the direction of the line?
As far as divining rods, I've had some success with them, but never with any lines as small as sprinklers.

 

[bigfunwmu]

If there is not any documentation stored by/in/around the controller, try calling the company who did the install. Most decent sprinkler companies will keep a record of their installations and are willing to come and mark things (for a fee) if you contact them. It would be worth getting a copy of their map, laminating it and sticking it to the wall by the controller.

Other option is to just dig it up and fix it as you smash them. It isn't too difficult unless you start pulling long lengths of poly pipe out of the ground with a trencher or backhoe.

In general, draw a straight line between heads in the same zone. Your zone lines are typically close to that. For the main line, do the same between the valve boxes. Layout is usually as simple and straight as possible, since the guys doing the install aren't eager for extra work for no gain.

 

[JasonF]

Great suggestions! I will call to have the utilities marked before I dig anything but this area has been marked before for other projects and there is nothing buried but my sprinkler lines. As was stated above this will not locate sprinkler lines.
- I like the idea of using the fish tape, don't know why I hadn't thought about that before.
- I also like the idea of finding the lines with a backhoe or trencher, I was just not sure if this would pull the lines out of the ground if they happen to be too shallow. Great idea on repairing the cut lines by installing 90s, I had to repair a piece last summer and ended up just digging the trench wide enought to flex the new pipe and couplers on.
-The "divining rods" suggestions made me laugh as this was a suggestion brought up at work yesterday which then turned into a huge debate.
- The suggestion to mark between the sprinkers heads for the water lines would work in my front yard but in the area I'm going through the water lines work around patches of woods so theres little chance that any of them are straight.

I'm leaing towards marking the ground up the best I can and if I hit one, I hit one.

 

[countryroad82]

A guy I work with says that he can use a couple of sticks as "divining rods". He swears it works. He's an old farmer, maybe there's something to it.

One of these days, I'm gonna try it over a known water line.

Joe

That was what my suggestion was going to be, I learned from work how to do it. But instead of sticks I use wire rods, usually ceiling wire.

 

[Bookworm]

A guy I work with says that he can use a couple of sticks as "divining rods". He swears it works. He's an old farmer, maybe there's something to it.

One of these days, I'm gonna try it over a known water line.

Joe

This is what I did to locate my water lines. It does work. I took 2 lengths of wire bent in an "L". Hold the short ends (vertically) loosely in your hands, with the long ends sticking out in front. Slowly walk, the wires will cross when you are over the water line.
My G-pa was a drainage contractor, back in the 30's-50's, he did it all the time. It may be hereditary, his son (my father) cannot do it.

I use it to locate electrical lines too.

 

[nyy845]

Usually "call before you dig" guys won't do personal property.

There are pros that do this, call them. Worth every penny.

 

[BD1]

Follow all above. you might as well just cut through the sprinkler. I think it will be a pain in the a$$ to try to run the NEW stuff below it.

 

[EOC_Jason]

You should probably be able to figure out how your sprinkler lines are run if you just watch them go from one zone to the next. Most of the time those guys like to run straight lines too...

You can dig up around a sprinker head and see which way the lines are running to see if they will intersect your path...

 

[bigfunwmu]

If your sprinkler lines are black poly, keep an eye out when digging. Regular PVC will smash, but black poly can pull, especially in wet or loose soil!

 

[JasonF]

If your sprinkler lines are black poly, keep an eye out when digging. Regular PVC will smash, but black poly can pull, especially in wet or loose soil!

It is black poly so hopefully I can locate most of the lines, dig down and pre cut them before digging so that there is no digging or fishing around them.

 

[davidlee]

If it is PVC I would repair any damaged pipe with an expanding coupling instead of fighting with several 90's and trying to buck them in. The coupling will extend or telescope out to replace the damaged pipe. You can get them at most big box stores. They are a little more expensive than the 90's route but a lot easier.

 

[MP&C]

I had to locate a PVC drain pipe in the back yard that serves as run off for the drain tiles. Where we needed to tap into it was just over 6' deep. My excavator made divining rods out of two 1/8" tig welding rods, added the bends, and walked across the yard with them. He got to a spot where the rods crossed each other, and that's exactly where the pipe was, over 6' deep. Laugh if you must, I saw it first hand. But it's cheap to try and even cheaper if you can hand dig around your pipes and not have to make any repairs to the sprinkler system.

 

[mitusa]

I had to locate a PVC drain pipe in the back yard that serves as run off for the drain tiles. Where we needed to tap into it was just over 6' deep. My excavator made divining rods out of two 1/8" tig welding rods, added the bends, and walked across the yard with them. He got to a spot where the rods crossed each other, and that's exactly where the pipe was, over 6' deep. Laugh if you must, I saw it first hand. But it's cheap to try and even cheaper if you can hand dig around your pipes and not have to make any repairs to the sprinkler system.

The locals call it "witching" around here....I didn't know much about it till I had to find a two inch water line out in a wheat field. The local backhoe operator asked me if I could "witch". I knew what he was talking about, but didn't know if I could do it. He threw me a couple of heavy copper wires and I did as you said and started walking at a ninety degree angle to the water line. To my surprise, the wires started moving and eventually came together. He dug down with the backhoe and we was right on top of it. I tried it again at my fil's and it worked again. Another one of my hidden talents.....

 

[DHS]

The wands do work for some. I have pretty good luck with it but sometimes it can send you on a wild goose chase. I have located many miles of water main with a wand and a probe. Fun, Fun, Fun.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Every township water department I've ever worked with had at least one guy that was good with divining rods. Some guys got it to work better than the expensive locating equipment. I'd still call for a mark out...

Tommy

 

[JDMopar]

I work for a power co. and used to have to mark our power lines when someone called for locates. I used to run into this old dude that worked for the Henderson County water dept. that used divining rods. He was always right on the money, and gave me some tips on how to do it. He said you have to picture in your mind what you are looking for. If you're looking for pvc water lines, you think about white pvc pipe. Cast iron water mains? You think about bigger black iron pipes. I saw an old lady come out and start yelling and preaching to him in tongues, calling him a Godless witch, a heathernous sinner, etc...and ran him off. I guess because I had an electronic gizmo doing the same job....it was ok?!

If you call to get any public utilities located, offer to buy the guy or gal lunch if they will trace the wires going to the heads. They will be in the same ditch as the water pipes. Tell them multiple times that you won't hold them responsible if you cut them. It might work. I have helped people out lots of times. There will have to be wires in the ground. Their locators won't locate plastic pipe. Good luck.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Another metal "divining" rod fan here. Witnessed the use of them many times and they do work on water lines, contingent on the expertise of the rodder. Here in KY we also have the "Dial 811 " before digging law. ....

They take it real serious no matter where you dig a trench, one must call 811 first. If the Homeowner/contractor chooses not to call and damages the utility system, the HO/contractor can be sued by anyone that lost service if they had life or property damaged caused from the incident. ...

The contractor has to pay ALL expenses due for recovering the utility plus damages.. And when 811 is called and the utility line is marked out, the contractor is supposed to carefully hand dig down to find and expose the line, BEFORE using a machine.

 

[rslaback]

If it was me I would start taking sprinkler heads out one by one. Start at the one you think is farthest away. My assumption is that when you take the sprinkler head out the pressure of any heads downstream will be nonexistent. That should allow you to trace the direction of which head goes 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. If your system is like most the lines will be in a grid pattern going in straight lines from 1 to 2 to 3 etc.

 

[justin1795]

when I did landscaping we hit quite a few sprinker lines. they always seemed to be in the dumbest places. everytime the owner said they didn't care that they didn't use it anyways.

 

[1grnlwn]

I had to locate a PVC drain pipe in the back yard that serves as run off for the drain tiles. Where we needed to tap into it was just over 6' deep. My excavator made divining rods out of two 1/8" tig welding rods, added the bends, and walked across the yard with them. He got to a spot where the rods crossed each other, and that's exactly where the pipe was, over 6' deep. Laugh if you must, I saw it first hand. But it's cheap to try and even cheaper if you can hand dig around your pipes and not have to make any repairs to the sprinkler system.

X2

Mark out the path of your trench. Hold the rods loosely so they can move when they want to. This isn't magic it is science and it works for a lot of buried lines. Walk the path and mark every spot the rods cross. Sprinkler lines are not very deep and are rarely run by common sense and not all have wires running in trench. It is up to you weather you trench under them or temporarily cut a section out so you can trench thru. I would not just trench and hope you don't mess up a bunch of pipe.

 

[inphx]

I googled more on divining rods and found this on wikipedia: A 1948 study tested 58 dowsers' ability to detect water. None of them was more reliable than chance.[16] A 1979 review examined many controlled studies of dowsing for water, and found that none of them showed better than chance results.[5]

More recently a study[18] was undertaken in Kassel, Germany, under the direction of the Gesellschaft zur Wissenschaftlichen Untersuchung von Parawissenschaften (GWUP) [Society for the Scientific Investigation of the Parasciences]. The three-day test of some 30 dowsers involved plastic pipes through which water flow could be controlled and directed. The pipes were buried 50 centimeters under a level field, the position of each marked on the surface with a colored strip. The dowsers had to tell whether water was running through each pipe. All the dowsers signed a statement agreeing this was a fair test of their abilities and that they expected a 100 percent success rate. However, the results were no better than chance.

 

[1grnlwn]

I googled more on divining rods and found this on wikipedia: A 1948 study tested 58 dowsers' ability to detect water. None of them was more reliable than chance.[16] A 1979 review examined many controlled studies of dowsing for water, and found that none of them showed better than chance results.[5]

More recently a study[18] was undertaken in Kassel, Germany, under the direction of the Gesellschaft zur Wissenschaftlichen Untersuchung von Parawissenschaften (GWUP) [Society for the Scientific Investigation of the Parasciences]. The three-day test of some 30 dowsers involved plastic pipes through which water flow could be controlled and directed. The pipes were buried 50 centimeters under a level field, the position of each marked on the surface with a colored strip. The dowsers had to tell whether water was running through each pipe. All the dowsers signed a statement agreeing this was a fair test of their abilities and that they expected a 100 percent success rate. However, the results were no
better than chance.

That is all very interesting but has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about.

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

I've done it before and don't believe in any hokus pokus but I can make the rods work. My theory is that water flowing through the pipe creates static electricity and what is happening is the rods are paralleling the field from the static electricity. IMHO

 

[gatchel]

That is all very interesting but has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Considering the number of posts in this thread about using divining rods I think it fits pretty well. I'm sure the OP would like to know that there may be the possibility of this method of finding water or pipes or whatever to be potentially 50% ********.

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

And after receiving this message from the flat earth society we now return you to our regular scheduled programming.

 

[ynned]

The study has nothing to do with simply finding pipes. It's all about finding water.

 

[buddyboy]

I come from a long line of mystical people.

we have knowledge from the far east, native Americans and gypsy's.

not to mention most of this knowledge has been cross referenced from other cultures from Polynesia, Africa and Tibetan monks.

i have communed with my fellow seers and have concluded the following about your property and water lines.

1. the sprinkler water lines are not deep enough, if you run your trencher over one it will hit the line

2. you will only hit the water lines in the path of your trench

3. any water lines you do hit will fall within an imaginary line between sprinkler heads.

4. for a small fee I can come out and witch your site, just show me your trench path and sprinkler heads.

-that is all

-the great buddyboy

 

[Arps]

Shouldnt sprinkler pipes be easy to locate? You can find the heads pretty easy.