Tire balancer questions! including 1 phase to 3 phase

[binder man]

Hello all, Tomorrow I'm going to pick up a coats rc 20a tire machine (unless you guys say other wise ) and going to look at a FMC 5800sc balancer.

I can't find much info on FMC balancers? It is self calibrating and the right price with a ton of adapters. But it is a 3 phase. I only have single phase 220. I have read and read on phase converters and the only way to make this thing a true deal is to do it cost effectively with a VFD. Now where is a good place to get VFD's and would they work good on this machine?

If anyone has info on coats rc20a's that would be much appreciated also!

Thanks,
Luke

 

[binder man]

sunday morning bumpp

 

[930dreamer]

What size is the three phase motor on the tire changer?

 

[W-Cummins]

I can't find much info on FMC balancers? It is self calibrating and the right price with a ton of adapters. But it is a 3 phase. I only have single phase 220. I have read and read on phase converters and the only way to make this thing a true deal is to do it cost effectively with a VFD. Now where is a good place to get VFD's and would they work good on this machine?
Thanks,
Luke

A VFD is really made to only operate motor loads, you want it run the whole machine. The non motor parts of the balancer might not like the power output of the VFD, they could be just fine too, you will not know until you try. Only problem with that is when you buy the VFD and use it your going to own it even if it dose not get along with the machine. I wounder if the machine already has a VFD in it to run the tire spin up?? You may be able to modify the machine to run on single phase with out adding anything to it, if it's setup that way as some 3 phase VFD's can be operated on single phase.

William...

 

[binder man]

the guy said the display will run on single phase. It is only the motor that wont run on it. Would a rotary converter be a safer bet?

 

[A_Pmech]

Most balancers I've heard in operation have a VFD of some kind controlling the motor, the carrier frequency is obvious.

Ask the manufacturer if the machine uses regenerative braking. I so, you will need a solid state phase converter as the converter must be able to make three-phase from single-phase to power the motor and make single-phase from three-phase to brake the motor in that kind of an application.

If it uses resistive braking then you'd likely be OK with a rotary phase converter.

My guess is, if it is equipped with a VFD, it can be converted to single-phase operation simply by changing some wiring connections to the motor drive.

 

[binder man]

The guy just told me it is a 3 phase machine. My idea was to use a vfd. Are you saying that most machines have one built in for the motor?

 

[TWX]

You might want to find out from the MFR if they can sell you a single-phase motor for the device, or you might want to find out the mechanical power output, RPM, and frame that the motor uses, to possibly replace it yourself with an off-the-shelf regular single phase motor, should one exist that would work.

 

[binder man]

I don't think FMC is around anymore are they? from what I found they are now john beam?

 

[larry_g]

You might want to find out from the MFR if they can sell you a single-phase motor for the device, or you might want to find out the mechanical power output, RPM, and frame that the motor uses, to possibly replace it yourself with an off-the-shelf regular single phase motor, should one exist that would work.

Might work but I'm gonna guess here that the way a balancer spins up and slows down that it is controlled with a vfd to adjust ramping. Without a schematic it's only a guess.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[binder man]

I talked to him again and he guaranteed me that it takes a solid 3 phase to run the machine. So is there a converter I can use?

 

[930dreamer]

How many hp?

 

[Falcon67]

If you want to just "plug in and run" the machine, you'll need a rotary phase converter. A VFD is designed to control the motor directly - it can't feed the whole machine. The internal motor controls for start/stop/spin direction, etc would need to be re-done to supply the proper inputs to the VFD. That may or may not be possible. they way those things spin up/down, etc I'll bet it has an internal motor controller already that would be hard to work around. When I put my 3 phase mill on a VFD, I completely stripped down the controls and re-wired it. I'm willing to bet you can't do that with a tire balancer. You can google "rotary phase converter" and come up with all kinds of home brew pony motor converters done fairly cheap.

 

[TWX]

Former owner of the house had a rotary phase converter when he had a mill. It was about the size of a small air compressor's tank. Pricey though, from what I've seen.

 

[crxmotorsports]

Is there any way to tell from looking at the wiring if a changer has resistive or regenaterive braking? I found a steal of a deal on a Hofmann balancer, but noone can tell me what type if braking it uses. I am hesitant to buy it if a phase converter will not allow me to operate it. Only single phase available to me

 

[Americanjackie]

I know this is a really old post but I'm running into The same issue have you figured out how to do this?

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Someone else asked about this and we never heard back. you can get a solid state phase converter sized for the device and bolt it to the back/inside, or you can power the electronics off the 1ph 220 and put a single phase VFD inside to drive the motor, and DIY the relays to tell the VFD what you want it to do. you'll probably need a braking resistor too so things stop fast enough.

 

[firebirdparts]

I know this is a really old post but I'm running into The same issue have you figured out how to do this?

I built my own RPC, but I haven't be lucky enough to get a tire balancer for cheap. it's important to note right now that the machine is 240 volts as opposed to 480. That's important.

The hotbed of 3 phase power supplies is hobby machinists. The practical machinist forum has a subforum dedicated to it. All those guys buy these 3 phase machine tools and repower them.

Transformers, Phase Converters and VFD

Machine voltage issues, three phase via single phase power, and variable frequency drives discussion >> moderator JST

www.practicalmachinist.com

I don't know how you'd ever figure out enough on your own to hack into it with a VFD replacing the internal VFD or soft starter. An external VFD could work fine, though, it seems to me. if you want to power all the single-phase stuff from the house directly, that should be easy enough to figure out on your own just be looking at the wiring. Power distribution is not going to be monstrously complicated on that machine.

 

[spudley]

Just picked up an old 3 phase wood lathe that I'm running on 240V single phase with a Teco L510 VFD (about $150).

There's a you tube guy named clough42 (that should've been a teacher) who explains the operation simple enough for anyone to understand.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I built my own RPC, but I haven't be lucky enough to get a tire balancer for cheap. it's important to note right now that the machine is 240 volts as opposed to 480. That's important.

The hotbed of 3 phase power supplies is hobby machinists. The practical machinist forum has a subforum dedicated to it. All those guys buy these 3 phase machine tools and repower them.

Transformers, Phase Converters and VFD

Machine voltage issues, three phase via single phase power, and variable frequency drives discussion >> moderator JST

www.practicalmachinist.com

I don't know how you'd ever figure out enough on your own to hack into it with a VFD replacing the internal VFD or soft starter. An external VFD could work fine, though, it seems to me. if you want to power all the single-phase stuff from the house directly, that should be easy enough to figure out on your own just be looking at the wiring. Power distribution is not going to be monstrously complicated on that machine.

just like you'd have to look at the wiring for the single phase stuff, you'd have to look at the wiring for the relays. coils are single phase so you can watch their sequence of operations and see what happens.