Tire Balancer Questions

[Tool Man Pete]

I've read through other discussions but have a question I could not find the answer too.
Most people buy tire balancers to attempt to save money. I want one because I've had bad luck at tire shops too many times now and just want to do it on my own, that and I find it a hassle going into a shop with an appointment. I've ran these machines before so I pretty much know what I'm doing but its been a while. I have a Toyota Tacoma and Tundra and I drive both of them pretty hard through the corners and beat on my tires which will throw them out of balance quicker, when that happens its hit or miss at the tire shops. I would like to rotate and balance them at every oil change. I'm planning on getting the tire changer as well.

Here are my questions.
If I buy a Weaver balancer, or similar, will that meet my needs assuming I'm using it right? All the reviews on these machines are positive but I'm still leery of buying a china machine and don't want to end up in a position where I'm not able to get the results I'm looking for.
I've read somewhere, that I can't find anymore, that Toyota truck rims/wheels can be hard to mount on a balancer and something special has to be done like a different style cone or adaptor, is that true and does the weaver machines come with the right cones/adaptors? The guy on the phone at weaver was less then helpful unfortunately.

 

[FMB4]

Rotating your tires at every oil change (5-6K mi) should negate the need for balancing imo. That said, the biggest problem I see with paying someone to balance tires is that they don't clean the alloy rims before they stick the balance weights on. This almost always results in the weights not staying put. So, when I do have someone balance our alloy wheel/tires I make sure to clean the rims thoroughly beforehand. Ya, it's a pain, but it does seem to help.

 

[FredWanaker]

I ask the shop when was the last time the device was calibrated. The answer is always last week. After the first tire is balanced, I ask them to rotate it about 90 degrees and spin again. If the machine is calibrated, and the tire also the reading will be essentially zero again. If it isn't then we have a problem. We do this a couple times and if I don't see zero's they calibrate the machine and I come back another day. Sometimes out of balance can be the tire or wheel is off center or high spots on the tire. On cars with steel rims that center on the hub, if the lugs have been over tightened it can deform the wheel so that the center of the wheel is not really the center on cone shaped rim holders. There is a way to fix that but it takes a set of calipers and a file to get the hole for the hub even with all the lug nut holes again. It isn't always the tire balancer that is at fault.

 

[gregs]

Do most shops use the stick on weights now on all alloy wheels? And do they only put them on one area of the wheel? Seems like it would be more of a static (bubble balancer) than a true dynamic balance where the weights are on each side of the wheel like older steel wheels. I know most new vehicles dont have the lip to hammer on the weights.

I recently took my wheels and brand new tires to a local shop to have mounted and balanced off the vehicle (2010 Suburban with stock alloy wheels). These wheels do have the lip to hammer on weights but they used the stick on strips. Didnt really think much about it and put them on the truck and have been driving it moderately. The drivers side mirror has a little shake to it so I thought I would rotate the drivers side tires front to back to see if it changed anything. When I removed the front wheel I noticed a groove worn into the wheel weights from it contacting the brake caliper. They happened to install the weights in the tighest area inside the wheel. Needless to say I didnt rotate them but havent had a chance to get with them about the problem.

 

[rlitman]

Toyota trucks are notorious for being lug-centric. If you happen to have lug-centric wheels, you must balance them on a lug-centric adapter. Perhaps that's why you've had so much trouble getting a good balance at a shop, as most just slap the wheel on the hub-centric adapter and spin.

I ask the shop when was the last time the device was calibrated. The answer is always last week. After the first tire is balanced, I ask them to rotate it about 90 degrees and spin again. If the machine is calibrated, and the tire also the reading will be essentially zero again. If it isn't then we have a problem. We do this a couple times and if I don't see zero's they calibrate the machine and I come back another day...

I've pointed this out in other threads here, but you have a common misunderstanding about calibration (heck, most balancer operators have no clue how they work).

If the balancer shows zeroes all around, then the wheel is balanced (as mounted). Period. Calibration has NOTHING to do with this.

If the wheel spins zeroes after adding the called for weights, and then after rotating it 90 degrees on the hub and spinning it again it calls for more than say 5g or 1/4 oz, then the issue is not calibration, but just that the wheel wasn't mounted flat on the balancer hub, Usually the culprit is an errant rust flake from the hub or hat that transferred to the rim and is now preventing it from spinning true on the balancer. Another possibility (this happens to me with a heavy wheel with lots of offset when I'm not paying attention) is that the operator puts the wheel onto the cone and cranks the nut until it feels tight, but it isn't flat on the hub. If the wheel is offset enough, it will want to tilt on the cone, and the top may meet the hub before the bottom. Friction may then get it to not sit just right. With my Jeep tires, I need to lift them and pull them towards the hub compressing the spring before tightening the nut, or else I have this issue.

What calibration does affect is what amount of weight is called for. If you clear the wheel of weights, spin, add the requested weights and the next spin is far from zero, then your calibration is off (or perhaps you didn't enter the correct parameters). Miscalibration leads to the operator adding weight after weight to get to balance, where proper calibration should get you there in one shot.

Do most shops use the stick on weights now on all alloy wheels? And do they only put them on one area of the wheel? Seems like it would be more of a static (bubble balancer) than a true dynamic balance where the weights are on each side of the wheel like older steel wheels. I know most new vehicles dont have the lip to hammer on the weights.

I recently took my wheels and brand new tires to a local shop to have mounted and balanced off the vehicle (2010 Suburban with stock alloy wheels). These wheels do have the lip to hammer on weights but they used the stick on strips. Didnt really think much about it and put them on the truck and have been driving it moderately. The drivers side mirror has a little shake to it so I thought I would rotate the drivers side tires front to back to see if it changed anything. When I removed the front wheel I noticed a groove worn into the wheel weights from it contacting the brake caliper. They happened to install the weights in the tighest area inside the wheel. Needless to say I didnt rotate them but havent had a chance to get with them about the problem.

Dynamic balance can be achieved with stick on weights. Dynamic balance just requires two parallel circles of weights. Wheels designed for this will have a pair of cylindrical areas designed for the stick on weights, or perhaps one stripe behind the spokes and an inner lip meant to accept conventional weights.

 

[Pen & Wrench]

Maybe Centramatic, or possibly Dyna beads, and you wouldn't need a balancing machine. I use Dyna beads on my motorcycle and the tires are well balanced 100% of the time. Just another option.

 

[CraigStu]

I understand your frustration. I worked as a dealer tech for 25 yrs before I retired and the first time one of our cars needed tires I just hated it. But the price of machines, and how the inexpensive ones would compare to the top of the line Hunters I was used to, has kept me from doing it. 2 of our cars have low profile tires and one of those are runflats. These were a -itch even w/ a good Hunter machine. At our last house I found a good shop and paid $35 per tire to mount/balance. It sucked but at least they did good work. We moved 2.5 years ago and I have tried 2 shops. I 'think' the second one will be good but all they have done was flip a tire over (installed incorrectly w/ the previous owner) and balance it. I will find out about March 2022 if they are really good or not. If you decide to spend the money, one thing I would do is try to find where local dealers buy the equipment and get it serviced. A few years from now that may be more important than saving a couple $100.

 

[428PI]

I bought a tire balancer and tire machine a few years ago and haven't regretted it. One thing with balancing thought is I try to check static as well as dynamic balance. Our Hunter machine at work is set on a mode to save weight and tends to favor static if I understand it correctly. With the cheap balancer I can check either with a button and even go into less than 1/4 oz weight mode to really get picky. I have found though that the tire out of round is more critical than balance sometimes. That's even on some Michelin's I've put on recently. Don't expect a cheap balancer to be as robust as a 10 times more expensive Hunter though.