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Tire Changer & Balancer

thetireman

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Jul 5, 2012
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Hey there, first post on this board!

I run a small used tire shop from my home and at this point I do not do installs. I am looking to expand to a larger property and begin doing installs and selling new tires as well. Right off the bat ill be working by myself with the hopes of soon getting a few employees going soon.

I am looking for suggestions for tire changer & balancers. After some research on this board I've determined many suggest Coats. I looked through their site and they have tons of options. I was wondering if anyone has some suggestions and why like that model.

I don't mind spending the money to get a machine that will be most efficient, do the fastest changes and break down the least. After all uptime & efficiency = $. As mentioned I expect to quickly turn into a shop that has a few employees and a large customer base so I don't want to buy a unit meant for only changing a couple tires a day, need something that can high frequency of changes.

Thanks folks!
 
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thetireman

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I should add that I intend to change car and truck tires 13-20" on steel, alloy & after market rims.
 

bobcatdan

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I am in kinda the same boat as you are. The big thing is to buy a machine that can handle what you expect to change. Do not cheap out on a stanard style changer if you plan on doing any low pros are super expensive rims. These customers do not take kindly to any scratches on thousand dollar rims. A lot of stock rims are also get very fancy. One f up high dollar rim could have bought a better rim. As for a balance, the main thing nowadays in my mine is one that can do tape weights with the hide function, many stock rims have no lip for normal weights. My buddy and me who run a little side shop are in agreement with leanuing towards coat. I like hunter too, but do not overly care for their higher end changers. Hope I gave you something to think about.
 
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thetireman

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This is certainly a concern of mine. Want to make sure the machine will take pretty much whatever I throw at it efficiently and safely.

Is there any reason you couldn't use all tape weights and not use the lip weights?
 

SMKS

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Is there any reason you couldn't use all tape weights and not use the lip weights?

Sticky weights are more expensive (from what I've heard) and can be difficult to use, from my experience.

You often can't balance large tires with sticky weights, because frequently you need to move the weights during the process. With sticky weights you can't move the weights once they're in place.

This is my experience from working in a tire shop. But that was about 7 years ago.
 
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5mall5nail5

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I am a BMW owner (we have 5 in the family) one of my real concerns is a quality tire mount and balance job. I own some very expensive and NLA wheels. I had to have one wheel repaired because of a pothole since there are none left for purchase. To me, the most important thing is getting a tire mounted without wheel damage. Second to that is a proper balance without multiple visits.

I do powder coat work and powder coated a set of wheels and brought them to my favorite shop because I know they won't scratch the wheel. You need to be that shop. I recommend Hunter brand balancers. If you own a porsche, bmw, mercedes, ferrari, etc., you seek out a hunter balancer machine. They are THE way to balance the wheels on these cars with finicky suspensions.

2 cents!
 
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thetireman

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Thanks for the information. Does hunter balancers provide something that coats balancers do not? Or simply do the job better?
Anyone else have thoughts on Hunter Vs coats for both balancing and mounting?
 

IONH

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I've got a FMC4100 spin balancer for my home garage and it has done a fine job for the 3 or 4 sets of tires I've done for myself/close family so far.

I use a HF manual changer mounted to a glorified (and strengthened) pallet platform so I can disassemble and put out of the way.

I use a No-mar tire change bar and have broken 2 of the ends off so far. Free lifetime replacement warranty and it comes with 3 spares right away, but on some average profile factory 15" Jeep rims I was doing recently, obviously the No-mar is just plain not strong enough for those large sidewalls.

I'd consider getting a tire change machine, but one that will do upwards of 18" rims is out of my budget and the older ones seem to cap out at 17" max.
 

IndyGarage

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I have a cheap Atlas TC411 tire changer and a Snap on Manual spin balancer. I only use them for personal use but I have several vehicles, so I change out several sets of tires each year - but I'm not using it every day and it's not a business use machine. As far as I know it will do 20 inch wheels fine.

Many years ago, I had a job in a gas station changing out tires on one of the old style coats air machine that was a chore and things always got dinged up - the new ones are way better than those old things, and they make it pretty easy to change a tire - I'm so glad I didn't buy one of those No mar or other manual changers.

The used tire changers I looked at all work pretty much the same. There's a bead breaker on the side which is driven by a large diameter air cylinder under the machine. There's a clamp system that uses shop air to clamp the jaws on the rim of the wheel, there's a motor that spins the entire clamp plate assembly and there is a mount/demount head that swings into place over the rim and has a heavy extending bar that the mount/demount head is attached to. The head swings into place, the operator lowers the head to the wheel, and when you lock it down it moves away from the wheel slightly.

That's the basic machine and all versions seem to have the same capabilities. Any quality differences in the brands are going to be the quality of the switches and controls and mechanisms and bearings that do those basic functions. My cheap machine has plenty of power and capacity to do any consumer-grade tire/wheel, and I would think it would work fine for a small shop.

The only problem I've had with my machine is that the guy that bought it new didn't have dry shop air, and the bead breaker cylinder got water and rust in it and then the piston hung up on the rust. I was able to fix it pretty easily, but it shows the importance of dry air.

There are several options you can get on the tire machine that drives the price up. Devices that lift the tire up to the machine; lever arms that hold the bead down on low profile tires, top side bead breakers, and such. I saw a video of a european machine that robotically does everything for you.

The problem with these automations is that it adds complexity and cost to a relatively simple and quick to use device. It would certainly speed the job up, but mounting/demounting is about the quickest and easiest part of the job of changing a tire. Getting the tire up on the machine can be a bit of a chore, but the actual demount and mount is simple once it's on the machine.

I've changed even very stiff sidewall 50 profile tires on my machine with hardly any sweat and none of those extra arms . You will need a couple of plastic bead clamps - but little blocks of 2x2 wood cut into cubes worked fine for me the one time I could have used an assist arm. .

The one option that I would consider mandatory is a bead blaster. I had to buy a cheetah because my machine doesn't have one.

As far as spin balancers, I learned something about them too. basically all spin balancers work exactly the same way too. Again, there's a wide range of automations that your spin balancer can have. Basically the machine needs the wheel mounted correctly and needs three pieces of information in order to balance a wheel. It needs the wheel diameter (or the diameter that the weights will be placed). It needs a reference dimension from the machine to the closest edge of the wheel (where the inside weights will be placed), and finally in needs a rim width in order to calculate where the outside weights will be placed. The machine then calculates where to put weights and shows you the exact location in order to balance the assembly. If you want to just use stick on weights, then you just adjust the rim width to the inside of the wheel face and it will tell you to put a bit more weight on, but the balance will still be correct.

So the balancer can be completely automated - where it has probes that extend and measure those dimensions, and spin the wheel up and turn it to where you need to attach the weight - all automatically, or it can have the operator do all those things manually - like my snap on hand spin machine.

Again, those bells and whistles cost more money and will eventually need expensive repairs - but do they balance tires better - no they don't. They balance tires exactly the same.

In fact, my balancer has dials that you input the dimensions on, where most newer ones have digital inputs and I think the old style was better. I can input the dimensions in 10 seconds on my machine - no scrolling through menus, typing on some cheapo chiclet keyboard or inputting the wrong data - spin the dial to a rim size, done. Theres a little extending ruler to measure distance to wheel, then spin the dial. Measure the rim width with some rim calipers, spin the dial, done.

If I were doing a lot of tires, I'd probably opt for an automatic spin motor, but I'd be pretty selective beyond that.

The real trick on balancing tires is your carefulness, speed and accuracy of mounting the wheel to the balancer. You want good accurate holding tools and you want a speed nut which can save many seconds in mounting the wheel and removing it. The other pricey option that you'll want to consider is a lug mount fixture for the balancer. Some cars use the lug nuts to center the wheel, rather than the center hole, and you have to have a separate fixture that can balance those type wheels. Many universal aftermarket wheels use lug nut mounting because they are made for many different wheels.

One of the reasons I have my own balancer is that I can get a wheel much closer to perfect than the guys at the tire store ever do. It takes me a few minutes longer, but it feels much better to drive the car.
 

bobcatdan

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Hunter's higher end tire balance, I forget the model number, has what is called road force. It has been out 10 years plus so I am sure other companies have something close. It has regular balance mode, but also road force mode. There is a roller that comes down and simulates a tire going down the road. Sometimes you get a tire that balancing alone will not get a shake out of. If the tire is savable, the machine will show you where to mark the tire and the rim to rotate the tire on the rim. It actually works and solved many problems. That said, those are expensive as hell, so that is a total business choice to you. I would contact the equiment dealer, hunter should show up to your door with a trailer full of functional equipment for you to test. John Bean (a SO company) also has traveling dealers.
 

mayday0017

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Buy a "Nomar" tire changer, if you arn't going to be changing 50+ tires a day it would be the way to go... One thing you can offer that your local shops can't offer is a truely "Scratch free" tire change. You can even safely do tires on exotic wheels such as carbon fiber.... I use to own one, did few hundred motorcycle tires with it too.... Works as advertised.

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tatra

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buy one of what ever and contact suppliers telling them you aren't one hundred percent happy and are looking to buy a different one in the near future and demand demos be brought in to try.........watch them fall all over each other to please you.....the original supplier will be watching and a better price will be forwarded when you do decide to expand.....as for the first time, been out of the game a long time but i will recommend frey lube no rim rust......never let me down and fixed all but one bead leak problem on literally thousands of rim leaks i dealt with..........as for a bead blaster, portable is nice......are you going to get into commercial tires too?.........22.5, 24.5?........for all tire tools look at ken tool first........the snap on of the industry.........what kind of repair products do you intend on using and what brands do you hope to carry.........also if you are just ordering as needed from a supplier your tires , good luck as the way to make money it seems is to buy in bulk and become a ditributor..........
 

theoldwizard1

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Buy a "Nomar" tire changer, if you arn't going to be changing 50+ tires a day it would be the way to go... One thing you can offer that your local shops can't offer is a truely "Scratch free" tire change. You can even safely do tires on exotic wheels such as carbon fiber.... I use to own one, did few hundred motorcycle tires with it too.... Works as advertised.

0.jpg

+1 ! :thumbup:

Although No Mar tire changers are not a "touchless" changer, no metal ever contacts the rim. All tools have "plastic" tips that have lifetime warranties. For a fully manual changer, they have maximized all leverage that needs to be used.

Also, at a starting price of $645, it is much less than anything else (other than HF). It is also made in the USA !

Go to the web site. Watch the videos.
 

CarCrafter

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A couple machines you might want to consider is the Ranger R23LT tire installer and the Ranger ZR650 balancer. This is the set up I have at our shop. I just spent about $4/k on them about a month or so ago. Hop on over to Garage Equipment and take a look. The R23LT does not have the assist tower, but it is optional for when and if you decide to do run flats. I am not thrilled with the fact that the machines are engineered here and made overseas. On the other hand, the cost factor just made the deal attractive. I can always upgrade some day and consider Coats or Hunter or Corghis then. Then again, whos to say I won't like what I have then. So far, the machines haven't let me down and BendPak's customer service is legendary according to other members on here. Both machines are damned heavy and made for a commercial shop. The only drawback I have come across thus far is the tire installer is rather slow to inflate tires. Other than that, they are serving me well.
 

IndyGarage

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Sorry, but there's virtually no reason to struggle with a no mar tire changer.

They might seem good if you've never used a power changer, however once you've used a powered unit, you'll never want to use a manual changer again.

You can put a nylon mount head on your changer and you won't risk anything on your exotic rims. Actually It's pretty simple to check the rim after you lock it onto the table and see if there's any runout that's likely to cause anything to hit the rim whether you use a nylon head or a steel one.
 

theoldwizard1

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Sorry, but there's virtually no reason to struggle with a no mar tire changer.
There sure is ! It is called MONEY ! Also add in portability. The No Mar can be purchased with a mount that inserts into a 2" trailer hitch receiver.

I have used one of these

5Kc5Hf5Jb3Ea3o43Ndc6id12e1efca04a101e.jpg


mounted to a piece of plywood to change race car tires. That trailer hitch mount would have been great !

They might seem good if you've never used a power changer, however once you've used a powered unit, you'll never want to use a manual changer again.
Yes, I have used them. Maybe not the latest models. Yes, the are nice. They are total OVER KILL for a DIYer.
 

theoldwizard1

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I use a No-mar tire change bar and have broken 2 of the ends off so far. Free lifetime replacement warranty and it comes with 3 spares right away, but on some average profile factory 15" Jeep rims I was doing recently, obviously the No-mar is just plain not strong enough for those large sidewalls.

If you are breaking the tip off of the No-Mar mount/demount bar, especially when prying over the rim, you probably do not that the opposite side of the tire collapsed down far enough into the drop center. Yes, this is difficult to do. That is why they invented their XtraHand clamp, which is included when you buy their tire changer.

If you watch their videos, some of the older ones show operators using small wood blocks to hold the bead down into the drop center on wide tires with stiff sidewalls.
 
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Danglerb

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If a shop can't correctly balance my wheels with sticky wts inside, I go to another shop, and I am not all that fussy about my wheels, but chrome is chrome.
 
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thetireman

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Indygarage - I appreciate that information. As far as "dry air" I assume you end up with dry air by adding filters off the compressor? Dry air can be "created" from any compressor?

A couple machines you might want to consider is the Ranger R23LT tire installer and the Ranger ZR650 balancer. This is the set up I have at our shop. I just spent about $4/k on them about a month or so ago. Hop on over to Garage Equipment and take a look. The R23LT does not have the assist tower, but it is optional for when and if you decide to do run flats. I am not thrilled with the fact that the machines are engineered here and made overseas. On the other hand, the cost factor just made the deal attractive. I can always upgrade some day and consider Coats or Hunter or Corghis then. Then again, whos to say I won't like what I have then. So far, the machines haven't let me down and BendPak's customer service is legendary according to other members on here. Both machines are damned heavy and made for a commercial shop. The only drawback I have come across thus far is the tire installer is rather slow to inflate tires. Other than that, they are serving me well.

Thanks Carcrafter, I've looked into those machines and the prices certainly seem very reasonable. Does anyone else have thoughts on these machines or if it's worthy of throwing an extra few thousand at the investment to get something that will make life easier? To begin with I will likely be doing all installs myself and likely no more then 20-25 tires installed per day. Ideally will be moving into higher amounts quickly though.
 
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thetireman

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By the way, thanks everyone for the information, this board is great and I really appreciate the assistance. It's a big purchase and want to make sure I have all the info before moving ahead. Cheers!
 
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thetireman

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Hunter's higher end tire balance, I forget the model number, has what is called road force. It has been out 10 years plus so I am sure other companies have something close. It has regular balance mode, but also road force mode. There is a roller that comes down and simulates a tire going down the road. Sometimes you get a tire that balancing alone will not get a shake out of. If the tire is savable, the machine will show you where to mark the tire and the rim to rotate the tire on the rim. It actually works and solved many problems. That said, those are expensive as hell, so that is a total business choice to you. I would contact the equiment dealer, hunter should show up to your door with a trailer full of functional equipment for you to test. John Bean (a SO company) also has traveling dealers.

Is this it? http://www.gsp9700.com/

If it actually works as well as the testimonials it seems like an easy choice.
 

mayday0017

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If you are damaging the tip on your nomar bar you are doing it wrong... you pull straight up then fold over. If you do this you CAN'T bend the tip... I have changed a few hundred tires with this setup and only bent one tip, and that was when I let a friend use my changer because I was busy.

For a motorcycle tire, I got to where I could change one as fast with the Nomar as anyone could with a power changer, not sure if I could say the same about changing any big tires but motorcycle for sure!
 

Griff93

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The hunter road force machine let me fix tire issues that otherwise would have just had to throw the tires away. Sometimes you can't fix a tire with it. At that point the tire was scrap anyway. If I was buying a balancer, that is what I would get. It still works just as efficiently as a regular balancer when not using the road force feature. I used one for years when I was a BMW dealer tech. I don't think it ever broke down with 8-12 techs using it daily. The hunter tire machine on the other hand we managed to break on a regular basis. Doing 35 series low pro runflats all the time didn't help.

Good luck with your venture.
 

mayday0017

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+1 for roadforce and you can charge a billion dollars to balance tires with it... true roadforce balance is $150+ for balance on 4 tires here in houston, dealer wanted around $300
 
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thetireman

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+1 for roadforce and you can charge a billion dollars to balance tires with it... true roadforce balance is $150+ for balance on 4 tires here in houston, dealer wanted around $300

Seems between the fixing of "non fixable" issues, less wheel weights and happier customers I'd say that would be high on my list right now. Now to find the changer.. Seems the Coats proguard leverless tire changer is god good unit, though certainly pricey as well. The ranger R980NXT seems better priced, but I'd have to think im sacrificing either speed, efficiency or qualitity with a $3300 unit over a $7-8000 unit.
 
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thetireman

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On a side note, is anyone able to give me an idea of what I should expect weights to cost (approx) PER TIRE.
 

CarCrafter

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Your budget will dictate what you can afford to begin with. Don't bite off more than you can chew and corner yourself into a situation. Margins on tires isn't enough to justify some of the higher end machines. You are operating a for profit business, not dedicating your life to install tires as a hobby. The fancier machines would be awesome to have, but how many millions of tires will you be ******* before you meet your break even point?

Snap On stopped by with their fancy new balancer, somewhere in the $18k neighborhood. Its supposed to be better than the GSP machines by Hunter. Its nice, no inputs necessary, cameras take a video of the tire profile and all. Its not fast, and you are guaranteed to have the best balancer in the county. On the other hand, how are you going to justify charging someone $200 more to mount and balance vs going down to their local national tire chain store instead?? I only throw this out there because you are asking questions pertaining to wheel weights cost and I just want you to have some idea before you get in too deep. As far as wheel weights, you can buy a starter set for anywhere between $600 - $1000. Make sure you don't anything that isn't coated. You do that, install it on aluminum rims and you'll end up with customers who will be pissed later down the road when the when the wheel weights etched the finish on their wheels.
 
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thetireman

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This is true, I just need to find a good balance of getting good equipment that I wont later regret cheaping out on and not spending 6mths worth of income on machines that do much more then I need for a small shop.
 

chriswin3

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We charge 10.95 for mounting/dismounting and 13.95 for balancing with hammer on weights and 15.95 for sticky weights since they are MUCH more expensive. Once you get the hang of doing sticky weights they are easy, just require more patients and more spinning.

Don't forget to change the rubber valve stems for cars/suvs and the heavy duty metal ones for 8+ ply truck tires!

You are going to have to decide if you want to venture into changing out TPMS sensors and reprogramming them. Since the monitoring system became mandatory in '06, sensors are starting to really fail/fall apart.
 

mayday0017

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Your budget will dictate what you can afford to begin with. Don't bite off more than you can chew and corner yourself into a situation. Margins on tires isn't enough to justify some of the higher end machines. You are operating a for profit business, not dedicating your life to install tires as a hobby. The fancier machines would be awesome to have, but how many millions of tires will you be ******* before you meet your break even point?

Snap On stopped by with their fancy new balancer, somewhere in the $18k neighborhood. Its supposed to be better than the GSP machines by Hunter. Its nice, no inputs necessary, cameras take a video of the tire profile and all. Its not fast, and you are guaranteed to have the best balancer in the county. On the other hand, how are you going to justify charging someone $200 more to mount and balance vs going down to their local national tire chain store instead?? I only throw this out there because you are asking questions pertaining to wheel weights cost and I just want you to have some idea before you get in too deep. As far as wheel weights, you can buy a starter set for anywhere between $600 - $1000. Make sure you don't anything that isn't coated. You do that, install it on aluminum rims and you'll end up with customers who will be pissed later down the road when the when the wheel weights etched the finish on their wheels.


He is 100% correct here! I did motorcycle tires mostly becuase dealerships are almost the only place tha do them and they want $50 per wheel off the bike and $70-100 per wheel on the bike. It is every bit as easy to change a motorcycle tire as it is a car tire and honestly sometimes easier. Anyways back to the point... I was just doing it out of my garage and using a huge motorcycle forum we have here in Houston to drum up business, and I changed many many tires for $20 for 2 wheels off bike or $15 for 1 wheel off the bike. Even started stocking tires and selling them for $50 less then the dealers were charging so I was making about $40 a wheel. It still ended up not being worth the trouble... Finally sold off my changer setup and got rid of the tires. The truth is I don't think there is much money to be made off changing tires even less if it is on a car. I can get a tire mounted at any local mexican shop or discount tires for $10 or less it just really isn't worth the trouble of getting everything setup to change a tire here and there, at least not for me. Think long and hard about what you are looking to gain from this investment there might be something better to get into.
 
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thetireman

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Well as I see it, the used tire business is working well, and all those customers are getting the tires installed else where. It's easy money to be installing them as well as selling them.
 

eljefino

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yes and if you're installing them you can put a roadblock up on anyone who wants to warranty a dud tire. Sure, let me replace that for free, just pay the $15 to mount it. :D

You can also do tire rack installs, the business will be good, but the people will be type-A consumer reports reading nerdy types. "This Yokohama Avid gets a 9.3 in wet traction, I demand 2.5 Bar air pressure at 21 degrees centigrade. :D "

After all this, I gotta ask... what are you doing for a lift in your shop?
 

CarCrafter

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Do your research and make your choices wisely. You are working out of your home right now. So I gather your operating costs are low. When you make this official, you'll have to consider the licensing, taxes, insurance and so on. There are used tire places around that make a killing out there. A local outfit here sends a bunch of day laborers to the u-pull it yard and gets his inventory there when they have half off sales. Even so, there is still a break even point you have to factor in. As far as becoming an installer for places like the Tire Rack, you are going to have to be a legitimate business before they would even talk to you. I am not saying you can't earn a living or even become wealthy by ways of tire servicing & sales, but do it smartly.
 
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