Tire shop trick?

[bw77]

Last week I brought my car to a chain tire shop to dismount the snow tires
and mount the summer tires. They told me it needed an alignment, but I
didn't have it done.

Drove the car home, then I was out of town for a week and my wife drove the car.

When I got home she told me the car had an odd vibration. I drove it and
there was a very intermittent vibration that sounded to me like the backing
plate behind the rotor.

I took off the front wheels and it looked ok. But the right front wheel was
way overtightened, I needed a pipe to loosen the nuts. The other 3 wheels
were properly tightened. The tires were all overinflated by 4 lbs.

I re-torqued the wheels and got the tires at the proper inflation and the
vibration is gone.

I am wondering if they did that on purpose to get the car back, then they
would tell me it was vibrating because I needed the alignment.

Or is it just a coincidence?

Why would just one wheel be over-tightened?

 

[ibedayank]

having worked in a shop and changed tires.... that shithole place would never see my $$$ again

 

[lonestarky]

More than likely just zipped it down with the impact wrench. That can warp a wheel. Thats why they have torque specs, and why I have such a problem with using an impact to tighten the wheels.

4psi could be something as insignificant as the change in temperature though. Especially if they were ALL 4psi over.

 

[MGMatt]

having worked in a shop and changed tires.... that shithole place would never see my $$$ again

Agreed!

Managers need to justify the expense of an alignment rack and will push an alignment on every customer.

I have worked in shops without racks and we would sublet the alignment to a shop down the road. The only time we would recommend an alignment was if there was a pull/drift or tire wear issue. If we replaced suspension components and it required an alignment then we included it in the original est.

At the shops with a rack the first thing the Owner/manager would say was "make sure You check to see that it needs an Alignment!"

As for the lug nuts and the tire pressure... Its a tire place! This is the one thing they should be doing rite.

My advice is to find a local shop that does tires but not alignments. If you really need it they will recommend it and some place you can go to.

 

[ddawg16]

This reminds me why I don't let other people work on my vehicles.....

 

[tony4311]

I NEVER let tire shops put wheels on my cars or my wife's. I take them off the cars and put them in one of the others to take them in for mounting. They all seem to use the impact to put them back on. The last time I did was strange circumstances that caused me to let the shop put them on. I broke two locking lug keys trying to get them off. Never again.

 

[petee_c]

impacts and tires

- recently, I've started using one of the torque sticks when putting my summer/winter wheels back on.... seems to save time, however I do check them with a clicker torque wrench....

 

[wssix99]

As for the lug nuts and the tire pressure... Its a tire place! This is the one thing they should be doing rite.

My advice is to find a local shop that does tires but not alignments. If you really need it they will recommend it and some place you can go to.

Great advice.

This stuff always happens to me. I'm at a point now where I always check the pressure and re-torque my lug nuts after every visit to a "mechanic." I can't remember the last time I saw a proper torque wrench in a tire shop!

 

[srmofo]

Did they provide you with a printout or show you the measurements on the screen?

....or did they just recommend that you have it checked?

In my experience, people are usually distracted by someone or something, and only hear what they want.

Its never a bad idea to check the alignment, and many shops will do that for free. This is what the industry calls a lose leader, just like $20 oil changes. Its to get you in the door to sell services to you. There is nothing wrong with that as long as the service is needed. In fact every retail establishment does it, but for some reason the auto industry is ridiculed for it.

Alignments wont cause a vibration. If that is their way to get you back in the door, then you really need to find another shop. Not just because they sabotaged your vehicle but because they obviously dont know what they are doing either.

With all that said, in all likely hood, no one is trying to **** you on purpose, just chalk it up to a mistake of someone tightening in a circle instead of a star.

Some people are quick to throw blame at an auto technician, but will turn around, bend over and take it dry from the electronics store on a set of $100 hdmi cables. Funny how peoples attitudes change when its something shiny they want(new TV), not something boring they need (auto repairs).

My suggestion is to find a new full service shop and take all your work there. Develop a good relationship with the manager/owner/ and the technicians.

 

[Aklass]

Great advice.

This stuff always happens to me. I'm at a point now where I always check the pressure and re-torque my lug nuts after every visit to a "mechanic." I can't remember the last time I saw a proper torque wrench in a tire shop!

I work at a shop and its sad but true, the owner only cares about $ and the big jobs the shop has so tires get impacted on. The only place that torques that I know is costco

 

[John in OH]

More than likely just zipped it down with the impact wrench. That can warp a wheel. Thats why they have torque specs, and why I have such a problem with using an impact to tighten the wheels.

4psi could be something as insignificant as the change in temperature though. Especially if they were ALL 4psi over.

Or, the pressure difference noted could simply be a difference in the tire gauge used by the shop vs. your tire gauge. Tire gauges are not precision instruments ... did you ever see an "instrument calibration tag" on a tire gauge? Don't expect the pressure indicated by one of those cheap tire gauges that are sold out of a coffee cup on the counter of your local parts store for $1 to necessarily match the pressure indicated by a "good" gauge ... like one with an engraved metal stem.

And, the technique used to measure the pressure can also produce different results.

I can rationalize away the tire pressure issue, but not the lug nut torque. There's no excuse for not properly torquing the wheels.

 

[browntown]

My local les schwab uses torque wrenches and has a torque wrench tester right in front of the customer window. America's tire also used a torque wrench, but I don't know if it was because I asked the manager ahead of time or if it was policy.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Someone went nuts with the impact gun. Unfortunately that is not uncommon. Whenever I get tires I loosen my lugnuts with my impact and re-torque them. Most of the time several are way too tight.

Even expensive tire pressure gauges can be off by that much. I have access to a calibration lab and had correction tables made up for my gauges. My expensive Milton gauge is off by 4 PSI.

Chris

 

[brownbagg]

that like a well known country wide brake shop. went in to fix a leaky fitting and they wanted $1200, they said, new rotors, turn new rotor new pad, They tried the unsafe vehicle law, where if they dont do the work they cant let the car back on the road.

this was three years ago, all I ever did was tighten the leaky line.

 

[johnnybentwrench]

I always REMIND whoever is doing my tires that I may get a flat and will have to take the wheel off with a tire iron, so NO IMPACT. I always watch em like a hawk and pop the wheel covers off before they let it hit face down!!!

 

[99LeCouch]

That sounds like laziness. Even Wal-Mart's TLE uses a torque wrench and torque sticks. Every lug I checked from our local Wally's was bang on the manufacturer specified torque. Even after backing them off to check, I tightened the same amount that was loosened before my Craftsman clicker clicked. (Gets on flame suit)

 

[WVBrady]

I work at a shop and its sad but true, the owner only cares about $ and the big jobs the shop has so tires get impacted on. The only place that torques that I know is costco

Our local Sam's Club used torque sticks to get close and then the boss did the final with a torque wrench. They moved, so I don't know if the new store does that or not.

 

[yellowdartdave]

My Discount Tire store here in Jax uses an impact (set real low) to seat the lugs but then they do the final with a torque wrench.

Once I took my Dakota R/T into my favorite front end shop to have them check the alignment. Their machine was down so they sent me over to their other store.
Kid did not have it on the machine 2 minutes when he came out with an estimate for over $ 1,500 and said I needed ball joints, tie rod ends and all new control arm bushings.
The manager was standing there and I asked the kid why did he think I needed all this stuff. He answered that the truck had over 110k miles on it and it was full of slop. His manager backed this statement.
I then had them stick their head underneath it and guess what they found?
Kid had never even checked it.
I had just rebuilt the whole thing and I just wanted them to make sure that I got the settings right.
I got into the truck to back it off and the manager said I can't do that, only an employee can. I told him if he tries to stop me, he will be filing a Workman's comp claim.
Went back to the other shop and showed them the estimate.
Manager and kid were gone within 1 week.

 

[DodgeZ]

The tires were all overinflated by 4 lbs.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=147

 

[ket-tek]

This reminds me why I don't let other people work on my vehicles.....

Bingo!

Unfortunately tire changers and balancers are pretty rare for a homeowner garage.

I have always taken my rims/tires off the car and take them to get mounted or dismounted without the vehicle.. I won't let any shop touch any of my cars.

 

[ket-tek]

My Discount Tire store here in Jax uses an impact (set real low) to seat the lugs but then they do the final with a torque wrench.

I use an 18v electric impact, quick and easy but won't even begin to overtighten them, then finish with a torque wrench. I only use air to remove lugs.

 

[WhiteTrash]

I worked for Discount tire for about a year in 2008-2009. As far as tire pressure being off, it could have been different gauges. We got a batch of new gauges in one day and I tried them all on the same tire. The range was about 5 PSI in a box of 12. Also, air temp does play a role, one of the reasons nitrogen is becoming popular. Or it could be that some of the older guys would generically put car tires at 32 PSI, truck tires at 35 PSI, and heavy duty vehicles range between 60-80 PSI. Often the car manufacture will have suggested PSIs listed inside the Drivers door jam or the glove box, but if you change tire size, rim size or even a different tire line from the same manufacture, that could change. In the end, it all comes down to personal preference. Keep enough to keep the contact patch equal across the width. Too little pressure and you are stressing the side walls, wearing out the edge of the tire tread and risking a blow out from excessive flexing of the thinner sidewalls. Too much pressure, and you are stressing everything with internal pressure and the tire wears quicker in the center of the tread pattern. A high pressure gets better gas mileage, while a lower pressure gives a softer ride. Folks with bigger rims and lower profile tires tend to like higher pressures to minimize damage to the rim, and they are already sacrificing the softer ride by having a larger rim. But they handle better for the same reason, less sidewall flexing.
As far as one wheel being too tight, we always had to use a torque stick when remounting a tire. It would drop the torque to 65 ft-lbs but still allowed us to use the impact for speed and ease (anything with a torque spec below 65 got put on by hand). We had to start the lugs by hand though to prevent cross threading. Everything was tightened with a star pattern. We then torqued everything down with a torque wrench bases on specs from a chart at each station. We would start at the left rear and move clockwise around the car. If the lug didn't move at all while using the torque wrench, it was backed off and retorqued. Everything was checked in a star pattern and then a circle.
If it was too tight, I am guessing that whoever put on that wheel didn't use the torque stick and just used the gun. But don't be fooled that the gun is evil. When we couldn't break loose a lugnut with the gun, we would pull out a lug wrench and do it by hand. I can get a lug nut a heck of a lot tighter by hand than I can with a gun. And after working there a year, I know have a better feel for the proper torque (I can get within 15-20 lbs I assume) but I know I used to change my tires on the side of the road and used a lot more force than was needed.
We did not have an alignment rack, and all we did was tires and wheels. If we noticed excessive wear on a tire, we would suggest an alignment. Mostly because people bought certs for the tires, and if they wore down wrong due to bad alignment, we often still had to replace the tire for free. We never got any money from having them take their car elsewhere for an alignment, and only suggested a place if they asked.

 

[SMKS]

Great advice.

This stuff always happens to me. I'm at a point now where I always check the pressure and re-torque my lug nuts after every visit to a "mechanic." I can't remember the last time I saw a proper torque wrench in a tire shop!

I worked at a Sears Auto in college, and quit working there about 5 years ago. We had several Snap-On split beam torque wrenches that were only used to properly torque wheels.

To the OP- I doubt it was some scam to get you to buy an alignment. An alignment that's out of whack won't cause a vibration. But, they clearly didn't properly torque that wheel, that's for sure.

 

[TOOL MASTER]

doesn't anyone explain how in the hell a torque wrench works?

you are supposed to stop when it clicks

 

[ibedayank]

doesn't anyone explain how in the hell a torque wrench works?

you are supposed to stop when it clicks

HUH what torque wrench just run em up with the air impact set on kill..
forget the torqe stick
and hammer on em for a few seconds... that will make sure they are TIGHT..



me i will use my torque wrench and not have problems like busted studs ... warped rotors i do run the lugs up with air but impact is set on 1 then drop er on the ground and finish with torqe wrench

 

[W650Mike]

Tool Master: Yes, torque is reached when the wrench clicks.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

doesn't anyone explain how in the hell a torque wrench works?

When it just barely clicks. If you follow thru the click too hard, you will be over torquing, as after the tool clicks you now have a solid wrench. This is especially true on low torques. I had occasion to try this on calibration equipment, and at 40 lb/in I had to feel real lightly for the click and quit the second I felt it begin to break, if I followed thru the click even slightly, I was way past the set torque.

Charles

 

[housey]

Could have been worse, the first and last time I took my car to a tire place the same thing happened, got told I needed an allignment and nitrogen in my tires which I declined.

The real kick in the balls came 3 weeks later when I realised that 14 of the 20 wheel nuts had been horribly crossthreaded. They told me it was my fault and thus my problem, took me about 3 hours and $200 to hunt down new studs and wheel nuts (some wierd size only used on japanese cars), and then about 6 hours to replace them all.

 

[dirttracker18]

It is pretty common practice to use torque sticks with a gun. They are fairly accurate. Enough so that a recheck is not neccessary.

As for over tightening, the idea that you could warp a wheel is an old wives tail. As another poster noted, you can tighten more with a pipe then a gun. Please go ahead on a scrape vehicle and attempt to warp the wheel by over tightening.
A rotor, maybe, but still not very likely.

As for the OP, agreed with most. Hammared on with a gun, especially on that one wheel.

 

[Milton Shaw]

I always bought extra wheels for snow tires when I ran them, Much less hassle to change and can only run them when there is snow on ground. Got 10 or more years for studded snow tires, just jack it up impact loose, and change, torque back. No hassle no money.
YES there are dishonest shops out there it comes from the manager down, I worked in that industry for 20 years got out of it because of that. There are enough things really wrong with vehicles that you can make a good living doing required work not ripping customers off.

 

[cdseven95]

I have a friend that has a shop with a tire machine/ balancer... I helped him change some tires one day so I could learn... Now I just go there and do it myself...

But before I would always bring just the wheels.... And still had trouble..

Ex.. saying no weights on the outside three times and them putting weights on the outside. Used to happen almost every time...

 

[dirttracker18]

Ex.. saying no weights on the outside three times and them putting weights on the outside. Used to happen almost every time...

That is becuase it is nearly impossible to balance the wheel when only weighting one side of the wheel. It is not typical to put weights on only the inside unless they are aftermarket or aluminum wheels.

In that case they use stick on weight in the middle of the depth of the wheel.

 

[MGMatt]

But before I would always bring just the wheels.... And still had trouble..

Ex.. saying no weights on the outside three times and them putting weights on the outside. Used to happen almost every time...

If I am reading this correctly, the trouble You had was that the balancer would come up with a different reading every time you spun the wheel?

If the wheel was mounted on the machine properly, correct measurements/settings for your wheel and the machine was calibrated this should not happen. When ever this happend to Me I would break down the tire/wheel to see if their was any **** in it. Fix-a-flat, water, ground up rubber from driving on a flat, old tire valves, all of this stuff will cause a tire not to balance correctly.

 

[cdseven95]

That is becuase it is nearly impossible to balance the wheel when only weighting one side of the wheel. It is not typical to put weights on only the inside unless they are aftermarket or aluminum wheels.

In that case they use stick on weight in the middle of the depth of the wheel.

Aluminum. OEM wheels... Did not have weights on the outside from the factory new .. Do not expect them on after... I do it with stick on weights myself now..

I would let them know before. And will say sure that's fine... Then they either forget or just fail and put them on the outside.... At the end the dealership will mount the tires without weights on the outside...... Now I just do it... For some reason I just hate seeing the weights/ corrosion they bring

 

[treasureseeker]

They may have determined you needed an alignment based on tire wear. I get my tires from Belle and many times they over inflate close to 10 PSI. I just let the air out.

 

[Miter Wrench]

I do all my business at Discount. I always watch them through the window and the guy impacts them on snug then gets the torque wrench tightens them up final. They write down the torque specs they used on the receipt. I always re-torque my wheels within 100 miles as well.

 

[ket-tek]

As for over tightening, the idea that you could warp a wheel is an old wives tail. As another poster noted, you can tighten more with a pipe then a gun. Please go ahead on a scrape vehicle and attempt to warp the wheel by over tightening.
A rotor, maybe, but still not very likely.

As for the OP, agreed with most. Hammared on with a gun, especially on that one wheel.

Warping may not be much issue, but I've seen many, many aluminum wheels with the lug seat gouged/sunk/chewed into very deep from pounding lugs on with impacts, sometimes halfway thru the thickness of the seat..

I see lots of random shops that don't even use torque sticks, and I have never seen any shops use a torque wrench on a wheel.. (I have at dealerships and rim shops, but never corner/chain repair place)

 

[padronanniversary]

hah, had the sister in laws wheel pop off driving out of the nissan dealership ! Classic, I guess they just spun the lug nuts on and skipped the impact and torque wrench LOL

 

[eborcim]

at least the wheels stayed on long enough for you to check them

 

[ibedayank]

It is pretty common practice to use torque sticks with a gun. They are fairly accurate. Enough so that a recheck is not neccessary.

As for over tightening, the idea that you could warp a wheel is an old wives tail. As another poster noted, you can tighten more with a pipe then a gun. Please go ahead on a scrape vehicle and attempt to warp the wheel by over tightening.
A rotor, maybe, but still not very likely.

As for the OP, agreed with most. Hammared on with a gun, especially on that one wheel.

warping the rotor is more common on rotors with a built in hub then then ones that are seperate like FWD