To gutter or not...

[spschroeder]

...that is the question.

I built a 30x40' garage with 9' walls, 2' overhangs on all four sides, 5/12-pitch shingled roof, floating (monolithic) slab, aluminum fascia trim & soffit, vinyl siding, on a wooded lot in Northern Wisconsin.

The garage was built atop sand/gravel fill...about 6" thick at the front edge and about 4-feet thick at the rear end. Once the garage was done, I had the guy come back and top everything with pit-run gravel. It is sloped away from the garage quite well; gradual but not super flat right near the slab.

This is a vacation place that I go to every couple of weekends. My goal is not to create a chore for myself in the fall...like clean leaves out of gutters. SO...I'm seeking your opinion...can I get away with not putting gutters on?

My thoughts:
- I have a ton of rocks in the area and could do a full 3-foot wide pass of rocks along the eave sides of the garage...a bit of a splash/landing zone for the water dripping off the roof. I feel that with the large rocks and the gravel/sand, it won't completely wash out or create trenches.
- I don't want to have a bunch of water continually 'soaking' my sand/gravel fill and then creating heaving problems in the fall/winter/spring. For this reason alone, that's my only reason for wanting to spend money on a fall chore.

Your thoughts please? (some pictures to show you the site...)

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[bmxdad]

Washington state they are required ... and you need to have a thirty foot drain path


Nice setup by the way ...

 

[Jim_No_Garage]

If you don't want gutters you need to make sure that the runoff flows away from the building quickly. You also don't want it so "splatter" the building with dirt/mud so you probably want some sort of crushed stone or river rock along the "sides" (the proper term is eluding me right now).

You'll need to keep that clear -but 5 minutes with a rake/blower and your done.

The alternative is putting up getters and using something like gutter helmet - but that seems to cost more than the gutter itself. Go figure.

I'm jealous of your building.

Jim

 

[Pantone032]

Not much help here but during fall, wouldn't the leaves fall into the gutters that require clearing to prevent clogs/ and sagging?

 

[Zeke]

No gutter then a drain. I don't live in WI but I'd be suspicious of gutters leaves and ice.

 

[SALIV8]

I would gutter and am getting gutters for my pole barn next week. I use seamless that match the facia and screens to keep leaves out.
They're not expensive and work well to keep that volume of water where you want it, away from the building.
No problems.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I'd leave them off. You have a pretty decent overhang, and the grade appears to slope away in all directions.

Having said that, if it were me I would have built that garage with one row of block on top of the slab, to keep the wood structure up and away from the ground.

If you do go with gutters, I've had good luck with Leafguard gutters: http://www.leafguard.com/ I have a lot of trees around my house, and they absolutely keep all the leaves out.

 

[J.A.Varela]

No gutters. Stub gutters are OK over the doors and stuff.
Doing the whole thing they become a nuisance.Wood rot, bees, leaves.
I know a li'l 'bout rain on roofs. Bury a 2 inch line going to a garden area or tree you want to grow and do a 8 foot gutter over a 3 foot door. Hook the downspout to the buried pipe.

Tring to post a chart............Not happenin with this forum malware.

 

[Ray916MN]

I would just put rows of patio block set into the class 5/gravel under the drip edge of the roof.

Gutters are going to be a maintenance chore and may be vulnerable to snow slides off the roof in certain conditions.

 

[theoldwizard1]

This is a vacation place that I go to every couple of weekends. My goal is not to create a chore for myself in the fall...like clean leaves out of gutters.

First I like your thought process ! Minimal/no maintenance is what you want for a seasonal place !!

The garage was built atop sand/gravel fill...about 6" thick at the front edge and about 4-feet thick at the rear end. Once the garage was done, I had the guy come back and top everything with pit-run gravel. It is sloped away from the garage quite well; gradual but not super flat right near the slab.

Second, I think your final grade to too high. How thick is you floating slab ? Typically you want to see about 2-4" of the foundation exposed,

My thoughts:
- I have a ton of rocks in the area and could do a full 3-foot wide pass of rocks along the eave sides of the garage...a bit of a splash/landing zone for the water dripping off the roof. I feel that with the large rocks and the gravel/sand, it won't completely wash out or create trenches.

What are "large rocks" ? 6-12" 12-24" You have the right idea, but the real issue is the depth of the rock.

I don't want to have a bunch of water continually 'soaking' my sand/gravel fill and then creating heaving problems in the fall/winter/spring.

It sounds like the back of the property is significantly lower. This very good.

This is what I would do. Trench both sides about 1' wide and 3' deep directly under the drip line. Line it with landscape cloth and a couple of inches of clean 3/4" gravel. Lay a perforated drain pipe (solid, not flexible) with a sock. You want to pitch this pipe to the rear of your property and actually exit the ground where fill was added Flair the trench out as it goes up, but keep it lined with the landscape cloth. Cover the pipe with more clean gravel/rock. Keep the larger rocks for the top layer.

You might get some splash on to the siding, but because it is all rock there should be very little dirt. Hose it off once or twice a year.

 

[DangerousDan55]

I agree with Wizard1. My house is like that with gravel. Does Great! Built my 40x60 shop 6 months ago but haven't done the gravel thing yet. I'm like you being I have TONS of trees which will dropping all their leaves this fall. Buddy close by has stuff growing in his gutters. They are 12' high, so I see why stuff is growing. He said he wish he hadn't put the gutters up. His is a metal building.

 

[rsanter]

I would install a section gutter over the side door and run it to the end and leave it open ended so it will self clean and self flush itself.
Remainder of the sides I would not

I saw a product one time that looked like a triple wing thing that installed where the gutter would go. It broke up the fall of the water kind of and deflected it farther away from the drip line of the roof as well as making it fan out a bit so that it reduced the splash onto the structure.
Looked like a neat idea

Bob

 

[spschroeder]

Thanks for all the replies everyone - definitely some difference of opinion and different ideas to weigh.

Hard to see in the photos, but I do have some flashing around slab and therefore don't expect I'll have any water issues up against the vinyl/wood of the building.

I'm still leaning towards not putting gutters on, as it seems most would agree they will be a pain and get full of leaves (or be very expensive to prevent this). I like the buried drain-tile idea but I wonder how much water it will allow into the drain pipe to run out the end.

I'm toying with the idea of a buried "gutter" in the ground at the drip line. Thinking about a 4" section of drain tile buried about 3-6" under the top of my gravel and sloping it out to the back of the property/building. I would fill this drain with larger stone (1-2" size) to allow water to flow through it. Under heavy rains, where it might not be able to keep up, I guess it would just 'overflow' but the result would just be water in the sand/gravel at the dripline not any more than if I did nothing at all ???

Here's a picture...think this is it worth doing, or is it a waste of money? I estimate it will be 1/5th the cost of gutters and not require annual maintenance. The nice part is it could also run past the overhead garage door on the side of the building too.

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[Leaflessshadetree]

Has anyone tried these http://www.rainhandler.com/ ?

 

[jwhcars]

Wizard's response is the way I would do it.

 

[spschroeder]

I believe Wizard is describing a typical french drain...

Looking into it, I found a decent link:
http://appledrains.com/drains/?p=317

I may go this route...why reinvent what works for others?!

 

[buddyboy]

don't do anything for a year.

all that fill is gonna consolidate, once it does put in a french drain and refill/grade

 

[spschroeder]

And...a new thought regarding the french drain.

These trenches, or drains, are typically dug out of soil/clay areas with slow drainage. That area is then filled with fast-draining large gravel where the water ends up pooling, entering the drain pipe, and exiting out the end.

My situation is a fair amount different, however. My fill is all sand & gravel, meaning I doubt I would get much "pooling" action in the trench. It would just continue to run/drain and not end up in my drain pipe, or would it? I guess maybe that's where my thought of placing a half-round section of solid PVC pipe ~3-6" sub-surface comes back into play.

 

[8nford]

I live in northern Wi i have a 32x50 with no gutters,but i have a metal roof. Snow slides and ice.Not your problem, you have shingles. The leaves, with all those trees close by will be a problem ,without a cover screen over the gutter. For me gutters are in the future and snow brakes,don,t like water dripping on me coming and going from garage and snow and ice is down right dangerous. Might want to look at sock covered drain tile? Done right gutters, with leaf shield would be the way to go .Just my 2cents.

 

[rieferman]

I'm personally a fan of gutters outfitted with a leaf guard solution of some sort. I like to put water where I want it, and gutters allow for this in a very simple solution.

My gutters have a perforated cap on them. While I removed my nuisance trees, our neighbors have plenty that send leaves to my roof. 99% of them blow off or wash off in rain storms. Once a year I take a quick look from my ladder in case anything got stuck in the perforations (almost never do I find anything).

The perforated cap cost an extra $300 for the whole house as part of the install, and has been in good shape for about 8 years now.

edit: And in your case, your building is not very tall, so the once a year quick check would take less than 10 minutes total as far as I can estimate.

 

[yeldogt]

Wizard has a good idea.

I had to put gutters on my house -- so I went with big 1/2 round ..... a bit earlier to clean out. I don't understand why you have to install gutters on a one story building with an overhang. Especially if you get snow

 

[Scott H in Wheaton]

No crawl space, no basement....no gutters.
Its just a garage, you are not going to get rivers of water around it. And the water coming off the roof is only falling 8 ft.
My 30x50 two story barn in Northern Illinois didn't have gutters since 1930's

 

[PCO6]

... My goal is not to create a chore for myself in the fall...like clean leaves out of gutters.

Nice garage. You have good over hangs and the ground around the garage has good slopes and drainage so you should be OK without gutters.

I used to hate cleaning my house and garage gutters but it had to be done. I simply made some attachments for my Shop-Vac and pressure washer to make the job easier. For the first floor (similar to your garage) a 6' length of ABS plumbing pipe attached to the flex line of my Shop-Vac is all I needed. Likewise with my pressure washer a pipe attachment with a hook on the end did the trick. The second floor is a bit tougher but you don't have that problem. We have a lot of trees but the whole house/garage takes less than an hour about 3 times a year so it's not that bad.

 

[Kevin54]

I would put gutters and run it over the back bank with buried smooth PVC pipe, then put gutter guards on top. Do not use the black corrugated pipe or it will eventually clog over the years.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I would put gutters and run it over the back bank with buried smooth PVC pipe, then put gutter guards on top. Do not use the black corrugated pipe or it will eventually clog over the years.

They do make a smooth wall corrugated field tile that allows the water to easily flow.

 

[Capegls]

Id gutter it to a rain barrel that I can use a hose spigot on. That's a win/win.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Do not use the black corrugated pipe or it will eventually clog over the years.

+1 !

They do make a smooth wall corrugated field tile that allows the water to easily flow.

No, but they do make a cheaper PVC drain pipe (with or without holes). It is smooth bore but stiff (you need elbows) and probably should use glue. This pipe has "belled" ends so you do not need couplers.

It is advertised as 4" but the standard 4" PVC fitting will not fit without adapters.

 

[kbs2244]

I am normally a big fan of gutters.
Mainly to get the water away from foundations.
But you have a slab on a pretty good elevated “island” with good slope away.

I would go with 4 feet of water proof material all around.
(Poly, strip roofing, whatever.)
Then protect it with some good sized (2 and 3 inch) stone.
The stone will break up the force of the falling water and avoid any splashing back onto the wall.
(In my county they want 5 inches of exposed concrete a the bottom of a wood wall and 3 inches for a masonry wall to prevent splash causing rot.)
You can blow any leaves off in minutes.

 

[6768rogues]

I have a 40 x 60 building on sandy ground and it has no gutters. Never a water problem and no matter how hard it rains the water is gone about 5 minutes after the rain stops. I have a one foot overhang and the ground has gravel two feet out from the wall. I spray the gravel area once a month with Roundup. I would skip the gutters and see what happens.