To restore or not restore?

[ekegelmann]

I'd it best to restore vintage tools or leave them grimey? I know with furniture patina is a good thing. Is it the same with vintage tools??

If cleaning them up is proper, what is the best way? Steel wool? Should they be repainted? Curious on peoples thoughts on this? I'm a novice collector but desire to become a bigger collector in old tools.

Thanks

 

[jakemac]

It depends on the end game.

If you're a user, then you want it in usable condition. Beyond that some people like shiny jewelry and some don't care what a tool looks like when they're using it.

If your looking to sell, then you need to decide who your target is. ******** collectors want it with the original "as found" dirt on it. Others are looking for that pristine look to impress their friends.

If you're going to clean or restore the tool, then use the most gentle methods necessary to get the job done. No-one wants to see scratches or file marks. Not even the guys who generally don't really care what the tool looks like.

In the end, to get the best value out of an item. You need to know who you are selling to. Just remember one thing - The patina is only original ONCE. If you remove it, you're committed.

 

[NC Homestead]

I am sure others will chime in on this, but my feeling for the most part is that it is really a matter of personal preference. With the exception being if the item is extremely rare and highly valuable, or has some sort of historic significance. I know that a lot of people really like using the tool in their as found state as they have more character and you sometimes get a feel for what the tool has been through in it's life and how it might have been used. At a minimum I feel that I at least want to clean the tool up, and do any maintenance that is required to use it in a safe and proper manner (I don't collect tools that are display pieces only). So at the very least I usually want to try and get the active rust off of the part and protect it from any further degradation. But honestly I am more of a fan of restoration. I love seeing tools being brought back to new, or even better than new condition.

 

[snapmom]

Good used working condition. No rust.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

If I plan to keep a tool or piece of equipment, I'll restore it. It gives me more pleasure in using it.

If I resell a power tool (table saw, drill press, etc), I leave it alone and make sure that it's in good working condition. Otherwise, I'd lose a lot of money in time and materials.

Top shelf, vintage vises get restored before being sold. They seem to sell better that way.

 

[sometoyotaguy]

At the very least, I like to bring a tool back to usable condition, and proper lubrication, etc.

It is fun to do a restoration, even if it is limited to cleaning off the rust, and repainting. It's time consuming, so only a select few items get the full treatment.

 

[Fretters]

At the very least, I like to bring a tool back to usable condition, and proper lubrication, etc.

It is fun to do a restoration, even if it is limited to cleaning off the rust, and repainting. It's time consuming, so only a select few items get the full treatment.

That's pretty much my thinking these days too. A restoration, in my book, means nothing more than getting something back to good working condition. Paint etc. are all optional. I class getting something looking like it just stepped out of the factory as renovation rather than restoration. Not a fan of renovating, myself. I always think that something old should stay looking old, to some degree. Shiny metal just doesn't do it for me, unless it was in that condition when I bought it.

As you say, it's also helpful to be selective, as restoring everything is a time hog, and it's easy to lose interest somewhat with larger projects, as they progress.

 

[beatcad]

i belive this has been covered before.
what the other guys have said is correct.
since i've done this a little bit and discused it w/ other tool fools i'll toss in my 2 pecos.

it depends on the tool and what you want to do w/ it.

if you find old hand tools and just want to flip 'em i'd say leave 'em as is.
for the time you put into 'em(wire wheel/buff/polish) you wont get that back. guys buying old/vintage stuff want it orig to clean themself or leave as is. ive been sick of the word PATINA for about 15 years, but some guys like that ****
multiple part tools like ratchets and adjustable you can spend a little time, cleaning 'em up but not rebuilding/restoring if you plan on selling.

bigger ticket items like tool boxes and drill presses and vises and lathes or larger tools is getting into tougher territory.
like rebuilding/restoring a car. you can(maybe) make some $ on your initial investment and parts/materials(maybe) but you will lose on your labor/time spent.

you gotta think what your "time" is worth.
depending on the task i'd want $20 to $40 per hour for me to make/do something.
i'm not gonna spend 3 hours making a bracket that i can buy for 15 bucks...unless its something custom i just gotta do myself.

on the other hand, if you want to keep a small or large tool for yourself than you have 2 options, in my opinion.....

1) make it clean and functional and use the **** out of it.
2) go full on, full tilt and make it look like it just rolled off the showroom floor or better........but than you'll feel bad using it

i guess what i'm getting at is if its just for yourself and it makes you happy, do it.
if its a hobby dont waste yer time polishing a wrench you got for 50 cents and try to sell it for 5 bucks(there are exceptions). we know better.

damn, sorry i rambled on guys. i've been drinking

 

[furbyj1]

sometimes the older vintage tools look better with all the use. it kinda makes me wonder when I see tools that were made at the turn of the century and how many people have used them and how many jobs they were used on.

 

[taumac]

I agree with what the guys said above. I let the tool decide.

 

[AdrianBoomer]

I do a lot of tool restorations these days. I just posted the sander I just gave the treatment too. As I am an artist as much as a handy guy, I am visual and appreciate form and good design. I like to work with tools that feel good and put me in my creative vibe.

I think a good cleaning to assess the paint and polishing the moving parts and lubricating is the way to go. Taking apart the motor and removing the years of dust and cleaning the contacts on the centrifugal switch goes a long way. Keeping the tool as original as possible with all of it's authenticity and years of history an while being set up to it's optimum performance capability is where I like to be. I only repaint when the tool is scaled and peeling and not ever going to clean up.

All my tools are old and the main changes I almost always make without question are Bearings, Belts and Blades. I always want to keep the history and the Mojo.

That's my 2 cents. Good luck with your projects and enjoy!

 

[Packard V8]

To use or to flip for profit is the question. I've bought and sold dozens of machine tools and never made wages restoring a machine or tool to like-new visuals. It always takes more time and money than anyone will pay.

Those I'm going to keep and use, I'm a patina guy; electrical, bearings, belts, sharpening, scuffing off the rust is about the extent of it.

Painting vises - we've discussed this to death here and on the General section. I've never painted a vise and never will. (Beware of painted vises on craigslist or ebay. Paint and filler can be used to hide ruinous cracks, welds and repairs.)

Your opinions and results may vary.

jack vines

 

[Fretters]

(Beware of painted vises on craigslist or ebay. Paint and filler can be used to hide ruinous cracks, welds and repairs.)

That's sound advice for pretty much any and all workshop machinery and tools. There are obviously some perfectly sound restorations/renovations out there, but fresh paint can hide a multitude of sins, if you can't see progress shots of a piece being done. Personally, I'll rarely touch anything with fresh paint on it, unless I'm willing to take a risk.

Conversely though, a piss poor paint job can work wonders for driving the price of something down to absolute bargain level. A bad paint job can be both a blessing and a curse.

 

[NC Homestead]

Conversely though, a piss poor paint job can work wonders for driving the price of something down to absolute bargain level.

Just used this on a drill press I bought, but now I am concerned what might be hiding under that piss poor paint. With any luck just a really nice tool!

 

[Fretters]

Most likely it'll be fine. You tend to find that a lot of old machinery just gets some attempt at tarting it up by people who have no clue how to paint things in even a half decent fashion. Some company's do it to their machinery periodically as a matter of course too, to just freshen things up. Rarely is quality of the paint job high on their list though.

The red flag paint jobs usually stick out like a sore thumb. Something generally appears off with them, beyond just the paint job, so you'd likely have had a notion if it was hiding something.

 

[catalytic]

Most likely it'll be fine. You tend to find that a lot of old machinery just gets some attempt at tarting it up by people who have no clue how to paint things in even a half decent fashion. Some company's do it to their machinery periodically as a matter of course too, to just freshen things up. Rarely is quality of the paint job high on their list though.

^^this. As far as machine tools go, I have bought a lot of vintage machines and never repainted one, at least not yet. They all do get disassembled, degreased and cleaned, and mechanically restored with OEM or better parts.

As far as cleaning goes, Simple Green and/or Purple Power + warm water + scotch bright does the vast majority of the work. Don't leave the solvents on overnight, as they will etch any aluminum and peel paint if given enough time. Rinse well with water for the same reason (and dry afterwards to prevent surface rust unless you live in the desert). If machined surfaces are rusty, many people prefer to scrape the rust off with razor blades (I don't bother -- simple green + machine oil + scotch bright works quickly enough for me).

When I see a non OEM paint job, my first assumption is that whoever did it wanted to sell the machine and probably did not do metal prep to make the paint last much less replace bearings, etc. properly.

Occasionally I'm wrong. However, there do seem to be many machine dealers whose mantra is:
1. buy machine in any condition
2. spray over grease, broken parts, machined surfaces, handles, bolts, the pallet it's on, the floor the pallet is on, and passers-by with fresh green/grey paint
3. list on ebay as "restored" for NOS prices.

My machines will never be confused with those.

Oh, and one last thing -- many replies discuss reselling machines for a profit after restoring them. Personally, I could only do this if my hundreds of hours of restoration time came free. I own exactly one machine tool for which I didn't spend more on the restoration than I did on the machine, and that excludes my labor. 'Good' machine dealers that actually are in this game for profit typically go as far as wiping the grease/grime off a machine and calling it a day. Actually, if you go to forums for machinists, you'll find that 'restored' there means mechanically restored, and people list machines as fully restored when they have old paint (but fresh bearings, scraped ways, everything dialed in to spec.)

 

[Lassen Forge]

Good used working condition. No rust.

^^^ this.

If I didn't use the old stuff, I might be tempted to let it continue its rot-n-rustation... but I use most (if not all) of my vintage stuff. If it's ferrous material (steel or iron) and rusty it will go in the electrolysis tank, brushed and cleaned, baked if it has a chance of hydrogen embrittlement breakage (350 F for 6 hours) and either oiled or painted depending on what it is. Wood, I'll clean off, maybe coat it with clear lacquer or if it's broken, use a good quality carpenter's clue to put the pieces back together... again, remember I use the stuff, it's not for show.

Want to get a nickel plating kit for the plated stuff, but it's usually not necessary... while I love having the old tools around to show off, if they're old and rusty, they're not tools, they're just neglected.

Most likely it'll be fine. You tend to find that a lot of old machinery just gets some attempt at tarting it up by people who have no clue how to paint things in even a half decent fashion...The red flag paint jobs usually stick out like a sore thumb. Something generally appears off with them, beyond just the paint job, so you'd likely have had a notion if it was hiding something.

You mean like that lathe that is painted psychedelic lime green, or a certain stylishly pink band saw, likely done with no masking off and a 4" house brush (or maybe a horse brush)?

I guess some people like having tools that wake you up when you work on them...

Edited to add... Sorry for the Cornea damage...