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Too much light or just enough? help

bczygan

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Thanks everyone for the posts. I am rethinking every aspect of it now.
No help from the Electrical Engineer though. He is MIA.

Latest idea is to go with 8' T8 fixtures.

How about this? Changed the two strips in the middle on separate switches.


There are some problems with the spacing of the fixtures in your layout.
The spacing from the fixtures to the wall should be about half of what it is between fixtures.
 
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2ManyProjects

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There are some problems with the spacing of the fixtures in your layout.

Actually, the more I look at his "revised" plan, the more I like it (at least for the main garage area; the bump-outs are another matter). It could probably still use some minor tweaking; and as previously discussed, the control/switching arrangements are sorely lacking; but all in all, it is a huge improvement over his original plan.

The spacing from the fixtures to the wall should be about half of what it is between fixtures.

That assumes flat ceilings and a need to illuminate every square foot of the space absolutely evenly, such as in a typical large retail or cubicle-filled office environment. Neither is the case for this project.

There is free software on line, check Lithonia, to do layouts with specific building shapes, light levels and fixtures.

At least most of which will be next-to-useless for this project. Every one of those "lighting layout simulators" I've seen (including the Lithonia one) assumes flat ceilings AND pretty much insists on absolutely regular "rank & file" arrangements of identical fixtures throughout the space. Part of what makes "thetastelingers"'s revised plan work is that he is taking advantage of the irregular ceiling shape to project much of the light where it will actually be needed, even if (from a purely 2-D perspective) some of those fixtures "seem" to be in the wrong places. Go back to the photo in his second post to see what I'm talking about.

 
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thetastelingers

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This is the layout I ended up going with.
My Electrical engineer buddy sent my revised plan to someone he knew at a lighting manufacturer and ran it through his luminance program.
Turns out there was twice the recommended light that was needed.

So I am going with this for now and will add lighting at each station as needed.
Also, I am going to incorporate the Insteon hub with some of the lights in the house as well as some in the garage.

 
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2ManyProjects

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This is the layout I ended up going with.

Oh, dear!

I DO hope you mean that only in terms of having made (what you thought was) a "final decision", as opposed to actually starting to implement that decision. From where I sit, you have "gone backwards" in some significant ways relative to your "Version 2.0" plan.

My Electrical engineer buddy sent my revised plan to someone he knew at a lighting manufacturer and ran it through his luminance program.
Turns out there was twice the recommended light that was needed.

I have to seriously question this. SOMEBODY has slipped a cog, SOMEWHERE. While I agree (and have maintained almost from the start of this thread) that you were overdoing the general lighting in the bump-out areas (where you will presumably have plenty of task lighting), the main garage space was NOT significantly overdone, at least presuming proper switching/control (read: "Insteon"). It was CERTAINLY nowhere near "twice as much" as you would ideally want.

Going back to that "v2.0" plan, and ignoring the bump-out areas for the moment, you were showing 16 8-foot fixtures, presumably with four F32T8 tubes in each fixture, for the main garage area (or perhaps 32 4-footers with two tubes each; but that works out to the same thing overall). That totals approximately 179,200 "initial" lumens" at the source(s). Even presuming good reflectivity from the ceiling and such, you'll have somewhat (perhaps 15-20% or so) less than that by the time you get down to "working height"; plus, as the tubes age, they'll lose another 5-10% of their output. Let's throw a dart and call it 140,000 lumens, when all is said and done.

I'm not seeing any overall dimensions of the space on your drawings; but based on the truss spacing, I'm guessing that main area is approximately 28' x 45', or 1,260 ft.^2. So, doing the math, we come up with: 140,000 / 1,260 = 111 lumens/ft.^2 -- i.e., almost EXACTLY what you want for a "proper" working garage!

By comparison, in your (I hope not really) "Final" plan, you're showing 14 4-foot fixtures, presumably with two F32T8 tubes in each. That's only 78,400 initial lumens at the source, or roughly 48.6 lumens/ft.^2 for aged tubes at working height. That's less than half of what you REALLY want. Furthermore, the revised placement of those fixtures is HORRID. It's all concentrated into two strips running down the center of the space. The areas near the doors and the opposite wall are going to be in DEEP shadow.

So I am going with this for now and will add lighting at each station as needed.

I presume that by "at each station", you are referring (at least primarily) to task lighting. As such, that is a separate discussion. It is your GENERAL lighting which you seem to be dropping the ball on at the moment.

I think you REALLY need to re-think this plan. At minimum, put at least one 4-foot twin-F32T8 fixture back into each of those inter-bay spots (i.e., on each side of the overhead doors, and in the corresponding spots on the left side). That will add another 44,800 initial source lumens, or about 35,000 lumens at working height with aged tubes, for a total average illumination of the space of about 96 lumens/ft.^2. Even better, it will help eliminate the mammoth shadow problem your current plan will have. [Personally, I would still go with TWO four-foot fixtures (or maybe a single 8-footer, as you had it shown in "v2.0") in each of these locations, as these will be the main light sources for illuminating the work areas adjacent to any cars parked in those bays. But if you are bound and determined to cut down on the lighting, I suppose you could get by with just the two four-foot tubes there.]

Also, I am going to incorporate the Insteon hub with some of the lights in the house as well as some in the garage.

Glad to hear this part. But the rest of your latest iteration is.... well... a large disappointment, at best.

 

CNGsaves

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In 5,000 less words, your "new" plan ***** . . . . too little light.

Better make a go at Plan C.
 
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thetastelingers

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This final lighting layout is for the Electrician to get light in the garage at a minimum cost.

I do still plan on putting the lights in between the garage doors and opposite to illuminate these areas. I figured that in the work stations.
I should have stated that. I wanted to wait until I had the Insteon switching set up to control these and not have tons of switches at the door.

I should have stated this when I updated the thread.

Also I will have to add lighting for the climbing area as well, because in this, there is NO lighting in that area.
 

2ManyProjects

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This final lighting layout is for the Electrician to get light in the garage at a minimum cost.

OK, but you're still going to need at least the rough-ins for EVERYTHING you plan to install in the ceiling before the insulation goes in.

I do still plan on putting the lights in between the garage doors and opposite to illuminate these areas. I figured that in the work stations.
I should have stated that. I wanted to wait until I had the Insteon switching set up to control these and not have tons of switches at the door.

I'm not sure I follow your logic here. Presuming that by "the Insteon switching" you mean the control keypads and such, those are (or at least can be) completely independent of the loads themselves (i.e., the light fixtures). You simply install a single-gang box anywhere you want a keypad, and run some 14/2 NM-B back to the breaker panel from there (even if indirectly; it really only needs SOME sort of "always hot" connection to the home's electrical system). The keypads simply broadcast commands over the powerlines to the "addressable" load modules. Any given keypad can control ANY Insteon-managed load, anywhere in the house or garage. As long as both are connected to the same residential electrical service (i.e., transformer taps), there need not be ANY direct physical connection between the two.

When you do the rough-ins for ALL of the ceiling mounted lights, you should decide THEN which fixtures will be grouped together for common control. Then each of these groups gets wired to ONE insteon control module, such as the "In-LineLinc" module I pointed you at previously:

http://www.smarthome.com/2475S2/INSTEON-In-LineLinc-On-Off-Module-Non-dimming-w-Sense/p.aspx
2475s2big.jpg


Or, now that the above model has been discontinued, the "In-LineLinc Relay" module:

http://www.smarthome.com/2475SDB/In...ontrol-In-Line-On-Off-Switch-Dual-Band/p.aspx
2475sdbbig.jpg


This is what will ultimately determine what degree of "granularity" you have in terms of controlling your lighting. The more you break up the loads onto separate modules, the finer that "granularity" can be. But in no case is any one fixture (or group of fixtures) permanently "married to" a particular control pad or switch.

Also I will have to add lighting for the climbing area as well, because in this, there is NO lighting in that area.

Much the same thing applies here. Anything that's going to be mounted in/on the ceiling should be at least roughed in BEFORE the drywall is laid on or the insulation installed.

 
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