Tool Brand Disillusionment

[Jrboulder]

Edit: The premise of this thread was that the added benefit of paying several times as much for an extremely similar product is questionable and the response has confirmed that.

Yes, tool truck debt is the redneck student loan, IMHO of course.

 

[BigBoreFan]

I guess it all depends on why you buy what you buy? If you just want the tools to get the job done, maybe Harbor Freight or Brand-X is just fine. If you like to buy and collect, and seek out something different, than maybe the hunt is all part of the hobby.

So far my small collection consist of German, Japanese, US, Taiwanese, and a little Chinese.

 

[Finky198]

I enjoy the hunt, but I’ve at times wonder was it worth it, but considering what I have and what I’ve paid I have no regrets if I over paid for this or that and I score this for free or next to nothing it all balanced out and I did well in the end.

I’ve spent the past 7-8 year buying tools and equipment and I’m still continuing too. Most of the time I buy the best I can afford regardless off coo in some markets (like corded cordless and air tools), but In the case of my hardline stuff my hand tools are mainly US Made Craftsman, Snap on, mayhew, Sk, Irwin, Lang, Estwing, Vaughn, Ridgid, Diamond, Williams. And as you I like German tools Wiha screwdrivers and knipex pliers are my personal favorites... but I have Chinese and Taiwanese tools as well its the way of the world, but I select where and what i spend it on. I stick to company’s or retailers that stand behind their product.


Most of my stuff hard line stuff will ultimately outlast last me, and I’m the second owner to about half of it. The point is good tools that are well made and properly used will last very very long time....

It’s all fun and games. Unless its truly not fun anymore then you’ve got some thinking to do.

 

[WittHay]

Why do you have to hunt down tools and why the nonsense about rednecks?

You can order almost every Snap-on tool online and have it delivered to you house. Mac has more US tools now than in the past 10 years also available online. Matco ratchets. SK available through HJE and through their own website. Look at the Proto website, every tool has online distributors with prices.

Easier than ever for home guys who don't want to go to a real industrial tool store or get on a tool truck. Where they might see some of them there rednecks.

 

[Finky198]

Agreed I did most of my hunting online. I have had some big scores here and there on CL and at garage sales with a little retail mixed in, but overall I’d bet 75% was on the web thru Amazon, eBay, zoro, tooltopia, and Sears...

Using coupons codes points mailers and sales I’ve bought new and use tools for deals sometimes I couldn’t believe but heck I’d be a fool to pass up some of the deals... Chinese or not.

For instance I got 4 of the large rectangular Craftsman magnetic trays for a total of $3.25 They were orig 16.99 each and come with lifetime warranty. I know I know because of guys like me for the past 8 years Sears is spinning down the toilet but. For the price of a cup of coffee and a doughnut. I can’t pass it up...

 

[cgrutt]

I have always gone out of my way to buy USA when I can. Sometimes it just doesn't make sense. So is my Ford made in CA any less American than my Toyota made in TX. Hard to say. I've been buying a lot of Milwaukee tools lately, which are great, and made in China. Can't say it doesn't bother me just a little bit, LOL...

 

[cgrutt]

I have that Snap-on set. Nice set of wrenches...

 

[ssdave]

Yeah like this 10-19mm wrench set for only $379. Just throw it on the redneck student loan.
https://store.snapon.com/Standard-H...nt-Metric-Combination-Wrench-Set-P630562.aspx

The Tekton Taiwan version is $30 and they'll throw in an 8 and a 9.
https://www.tekton.com/combination-wrench-set-18787

I'd say it's a lot less about redneck buying power and availability than it is about what you want and what you can afford and what you perceive the value to be.

If you want a $30 Tekton set, then buy it, you have the link to it. If you want Snap-on, it's equally available. If the price is the difference that's important to you, it's an easy choice. If the quality is the important difference, SO easily wins that one. But, "value" or advantages/price ratio is where it starts being a harder decision. Is a lower quality, but low price option better than a premier quality, but high cost option? That depends on your needs, your financial circumstances, and the financial return or pleasure the tools will give you in your use of them.

I personally have almost exclusively higher end USA tools. It's important to me for various reasons to go that way. I can afford it. The return on investment is worth it to me. I find them easier to acquire and warranty than many of the import brands. So, adds up to "value" to me to buy them. If I lived in a large city with multiple choices or wanted to spend more time researching and buying online, it might be a better value to buy cheap. But, I have other reasons also for not doing that.

 

[Finky198]

Lol funny I have the shorter set of those snap on wrenches. I paid less than 100 dollars for ...
They are the nicest set of wrenches I own...

and SSdave that’s very true ^^^

Snap on tools are like potato chips you can’t own just one... Im guilty.....

They do their job well without question repeatedly for years if not for a lifetime of service in many cases....as do many of the other top end us brands. And if for some reason it doesn’t I’m most likely covered... without hassle now and long into in the future.

 

[Mikeske]

Lol that’s very true ^^^

Snap on tools are like potato chips you can’t own just one... Im guilty of many many charges.

They do their job well without question repeatedly for years if not fo a lifetime of service in many cases....as do many of the other top end us brands.

I will 2nd your comment that Snap on is a excellent choice but I also had bought in 1983 a full basic set of Bonney tools. (I was in the Air Force at the time). I used those the Bonney tools my entire career in aviation and retired last year after 40 plus years working. Since I already had good quality tools all I ever bought that was Snap on was 1/4" 3/8" and 1/2" ratchets and a set of ratcheting screwdrivers and all of those were bought on the 2nd hand market. The main reason I bought the Snap-on ratchets was they were and in my opinion the smoothest and best feeling ratchets that are on the market.

For me those Snap-on ratchets and ratcheting screwdrivers are all well over 20 years old and the 1/2" ratchet is over 35 years old and they all still feel as good as when I bought them. I am sure that all these tools I have will outlast me and will probably still be working well into the future.

 

[Finky198]

I have a friend who has a set of 1/4 Bonney swivels they are sweet.... if it weren’t for the whole warranty problem I would go down that road... we have some their wrenches as well.

I personally use Snap on ratchets, universal sockets, pliers, flare wrenches, crowsfeet, reg and adj wrenches, hammers, pry bars, extension, and ratcheting screwdrivers. Pretty much all the basics but I have tons of other brands mixed in like I listed above... it makes my warranty issues super easy... in 7-8 year I’ve had less then a dozen or so failures...

Good tools just make the day fly by and Make the whole experience better regardless of coo.

 

[928'er]

What's a "higher budget home gamer"?

What's a "redneck student loan"?

"I think its time for me to throw in the towel and go import." As opposed to buying German? Yeah, makes sense...

 

[Finky198]

All thought that term no longer applies to me. As I’m a business now.

Id say A man or women who makes a living outside the professional mechanical fields...
but spends a considerable amount of money on higher end tools usually thru means of good employment. Although not all the tools are used equally.... in most of these case

 

[WittHay]

Yeah like this 10-19mm wrench set for only $379. Just throw it on the redneck student loan.
https://store.snapon.com/Standard-H...nt-Metric-Combination-Wrench-Set-P630562.aspx

The Tekton Taiwan version is $30 and they'll throw in an 8 and a 9.
https://www.tekton.com/combination-wrench-set-18787

Well tomorrow I am going to mosey on down to the Snap-on truck and give him $120 cash for one angle wrench. Golly gee thats expensive but the hose+pipe its used on costs $470 and you dont have to take a bunch of the machine apart like if you used a normal wrench

What you are saying is that people who buy off the trucks are rednecks, stupid and broke. Maybe 1 out of 3 is correct, if I actually knew what a redneck is

 

[Finky198]

Yup no truck debt here either I own it all outright. But having the sense to get the job done right the first time is far more important then trying to save a few bucks on a tool

The old saying Penny wise and pound foolish....

And just because someone’s a redneck doesn’t mean they lack intelligence. I were boots Jeans and a filson jacket daily and get very dirty 6 days a week at my job but I’m college educated. Do I look the part nope do I care nope... not everyone fits into a profile..............

Be yourself and if you not happpy spending extra money for USA tools then don’t there’s no need to justify to the world why you need this or I need that. It comes down to personal usage.

 

[Wamsutta]

So what is this thread about? The OP is trying to buy high end tools but he can't find them? Either that or the store refuses to sell him the tools because he's a redneck? What is the issue?

 

[Mr_B]

Tool buying is not all one branded, if you want good tools and good designs and prices you find acceptable you going need mix brands from US, Germany, Taiwan and even China . Anyone who buys just tool truck and usa is not going have best tool selection or much money left lol .
Brands like Facom, Stahlwille, Knipex, CK, Wera, Koken, Japan Style, Premier, Toptul all need reviewing and picking out what they excel at and what great priced options .
These days buying any brand tool easier than ever been, 30yrs ago when I was building up tools you had rely on stores and tool trucks and odd independent tool truck to get tools you required, prices these days way better too besides top truck brand and you paying 3 times the tool price for warranty so be damn sure you need warranty as in reality most don't get value out of high priced brand warranty .

 

[zendriver]

So what is this thread about? The OP is trying to buy high end tools but he can't find them? Either that or the store refuses to sell him the tools because he's a redneck? What is the issue?

That in the end, an "illusion" becomes just that.

All companies nowadays are ******* to make a buck so the Big boys probably have to now focus their expensive marketing to where the money is.

I took "imports" to mean companies like Harbor freight, which been been kissing the *** of "above average Joe"

 

[BigNuge]

So what is this thread about? The OP is trying to buy high end tools but he can't find them? Either that or the store refuses to sell him the tools because he's a redneck? What is the issue?

Lol....I think it’s more about the OP droning on about his status as a “higher budget home gamer” ~ insert eye roll....

The irony, he’s b*tching about the cost of high end tools. LMAO....it’s entertaining anyway.

To the point of high end tools, they cost what they cost. I have a mix of tools, plenty from China. Not a fan of buying budget tools, but when the value is there I give them a shot. I use my tools both professionally (industrial boilers), as well as my home shop. I use a set of Tekton impact sockets on the job wrenching on industrial boilers, driven by a 1700 ft/lb Milwaukee cordless impact on regular basis....they get the job done.

 

[Peoria Man]

Lol....I think it’s more about the OP droning on about his status as a “higher budget home gamer” ~ insert eye roll....

The rest of us are mere amateurs...

 

[jonshonda]

I might be mistaken, but I think the OP is in fact the high end tool he has been searching so hard to find.

Give me $50k OP, and I could spend it real quick on "high end gamer" US and German made tools. smh

 

[inline five]

I bought exclusively US made Cman for years up until about 2011 or so. I had a good run. Fortunately I was able to get pretty much everything I needed.

If I were starting today no way would I be buying US made stuff outside of maybe SK sockets. Snap On and the others are just outrageously expensive.

In fact I probably would have a lot less tools, by Cman going Chinese it pushed me to buy many things I didn't really need just to have US made stuff. Now I'm looking at the prospect of downsizing!

 

[koenbro]

I might be mistaken, but I think the OP is in fact the high end tool he has been searching so hard to find.

Give me $50k OP, and I could spend it real quick on "high end gamer" US and German made tools. smh

Haha, spot on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[koenbro]

SnapOn is a subprime loans company with a small side-business in selling tools. Good tools, admittedly, but still a side gig.

So you pay for quality tools + warranty + loans they have to write off.

As a home user, I am mostly interested in the first, and somewhat in the second item above (no need for lifetime, 3 yrs or so will suffice to weed out the rare manufacturing defect). Definitely not the latter.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Finding and buying high-end tools is NOT a problem in the US... opening your wallet on the other hand might be.

I recently bought some Japanese tools thru Amazon.co.jp and the service, speed and $$ is very good for the quality (Koken, KTC, Nepros).

Snap-On prices are a tough pill to swallow sometimes... often you can find NIB items on eBay for much less (likely from cash-strapped techs).

 

[CobraRed]

I've got a resounding sense that most of these companies either don't care about higher budget home gamers buying their stuff or flat out would prefer if we didn't.

Ah yes, that tasty 3% of the market.

 

[sweet victory]

The only difference between the tools shops can get and home gamers can get, is that our tools come off a FedEx truck and not a tool truck. Do you feel entitled for a tool truck to visit your garage or something?

 

[jd_1138]

So what is this thread about? The OP is trying to buy high end tools but he can't find them? Either that or the store refuses to sell him the tools because he's a redneck? What is the issue?

I think he's saying they're hard to find in stores. I think their distribution channels skew towards industrial supply type places. I never had trouble finding tools. I mainly buy SK.

 

[M6erfan]

I've gone significantly out of my way to hunt down American and German tools to fill my box up with and as I sit several years into this I've got a resounding sense that most of these companies either don't care about higher budget home gamers buying their stuff or flat out would prefer if we didn't.

Most of the American manufacturers seem to only want to sell through the government, industrial and redneck student loan avenues. The foreign brands only seem to want to deal with their home markets.

I think its time for me to throw in the towel and go import.

I have no idea what the point of this is.

Tools are very easy to find no matter if high end or cheap import.

 

[shawndp]

OP is onto something... If you go to the Snap-On website, under "our customers" it has various classes - manufacture / oil / aviation / school / military. None of those are "home gamer". Cornwell will not even sell via website to someone not on their truck's route... It's an absolute travesty!

If only there was something like Amazon in America... or HJE... or ToolsDelivered... and companies like Trusty-Cook and SK and Wright..

Also, as a Canadian, my geography of the US is a little behind - which one of the 50-stars on the flag represents the state of Germany? Aren't German tools, import tools?

 

[PJNJ]

I have no idea what the point of this is.

Tools are very easy to find no matter if high end or cheap import.

I'm with you and the others who have posted. I'm a low budget home gamer (though I should hang out a sign as I have become responsible for the maintenance on the family fleet of 7 vehicles, a couple of motorcycles and 2 houses). I have had no problem finding tools ranging from Snap On to HF quality. And buying some tools used has provided many bargains. Between the internet and flea markets, it's never been easier. If I had a high budget, I would have absolutely nothing to complain about.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Us Professional Rednecks have little or no need for Your favorite dime store brands.

Your favorite dime stores stock what You home gamers are willing to buy.

Would you go to the barber shop to buy toilet paper; or To A steak house for a hot dog?

I have no problem locating any tool of any quality or price.. At 2:00AM this morning, I ordered another clutch spring compressor for automatic transmission work.. I had a multitude of choices in design and price. It will be delivered early next week..
I didn't have to saddle a horse or crank up a Studebaker to achieve this feat; imagine that!!!

You can go to Home Depot and purchase their dime store branded tool box, or place an order for a $5,000 tool box to be shipped to the store.

Us Professional Rednecks master the shopping skills that so many home gamers struggle with.. Do We pay list price for Snap-on or ProTo tools?? We have no reason to do so.

 

[sberry]

I have all of the above, from the best to the cheapest. The cheap impresses me the most, for 400$ it should be good but when it works as well as it does for 20 that is notable. If I had to start over again today it would begin at HF ad the few items that needed improvement would get it from basic brands, vise Grip, Channelok and the Stanley knife. 40 years ago you would have got the same quality argument from me, its a different world today when it takes a 4# hammer to ruin a dollar 3/8 end wrench. (or less than a dollar)
I have tools we thought were going to be disposable when we got them, still work so well 25 years later we don't even give it a thought any more except when coming to a site like this. There are a few pieces that still havnt caught up, sometimes simply cause some genius thinks he will improve the design but often the brand are relatively competitive anyway.

 

[mmason7764]

OK, I'll try to guess what led to this post.

JR, like me and others, decided to take a stand and buy American even if it meant more effort on the consumers part and higher cost. When Craftsman went made in China it made buying American harder. This was my introduction to feeling "abandoned" by a tool supplier. Sears had worked so hard bringing value and standing behind it one really developed a loyalty. Like any relationship, breaking up is not without pain.

So living out your principles gets harder. From reading the experiences here on Garage Journal for the past year I've concluded that tool availability is widely variable with location, so everyone has a somewhat different experience. I'm taking the OP as a discussion to compare notes and perhaps pick up some new buying options, so here's mine:

On one extreme of availability is Channellock. They are everywhere and at more than reasonable prices. I've never worn one out but keep buying and gifting.

Snap-on can seem to be at the other end of the scale. You either have weekly tool truck service or you don't. As a home gamer I don't. The online prices are such that they seem out of reach. It's easy to feel like Snap-on does not care about the little consumer.......until you discover Williams. Tool Discounter online has great pricing, good order processing, and a web site that is easy to navigate and makes the COO clear. USA Williams is the way Snap-on can deliver incredible value to the averge 'home gamer'.

Here in rural Arkansas folks pretty much consider online shopping a necessity. For me internet dealers like HJE, Bowers Tools, Tool Discounter, etc feel like walking into a local mom and pop shop. I've come to rely on them for the majority of my tools.

Disappointments and frustrations still happen. I love Klein tools. They are available at every electrical distributor here. A few years ago I bought 2 Klein multimeters. Made in Korea, which I found quite acceptable. Needed one the other day and could not find it. Went looking and all Klein multimeters and clamp meters are now made in China by Uni-T (questionable quality). Frustration. Hopefully Klein has good reasons for this, but I'm not participating.

So, hunted for a US made multimeter and that means Fluke. The USA models start at $300. Below that they produce them in China, which I'm not supporting. So after a couple weeks of researching it's down to Greenlee made in Taiwan by Brymen or delay the purchase to save up for a Fluke 87V. Have not found used yet (stopped using e-bay years ago). Still haven't decided.

So finding and buying USA made tools is a journey for me too. From time to time this journey requires more steps than I want to take. Sticking to your principles can be hard, taking the easy way out is all too common today. I keep reviewing the reasons for my stubborness and keep deciding to stay on this path. Someone needs too keep sending the message to corporations that their decisions to move manufacturing to a communist country that hates us is not going to pay off in the long run.

Mark

 

[zendriver]

All my life, I just thought you purchase tools because you want to build something or fix stuff.

It wasn't until I start coming here that I need tools to "complete" me.

All tool companies are trying to compete in a fierce global marketplace, so maybe is no longer just about me.





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[M6erfan]

Seems to me that these kind of threads always come down to "I'm pissed because I cant buy Made in U.S. tools at rock bottom prices anymore"

Let's just call this what it is...

 

[928'er]

A home gamer (as coined by youtube sensation AvE) with an above average budget.

Point taken - assuming that "youtube sensation" is synonymous with jackass.

 

[Finky198]

Us Professional Rednecks have little or no need for Your favorite dime store brands.

Your favorite dime stores stock what You home gamers are willing to buy.

Would you go to the barber shop to buy toilet paper; or To A steak house for a hot dog?

I have no problem locating any tool of any quality or price.. At 2:00AM this morning, I ordered another clutch spring compressor for automatic transmission work.. I had a multitude of choices in design and price. It will be delivered early next week..
I didn't have to saddle a horse or crank up a Studebaker to achieve this feat; imagine that!!!

You can go to Home Depot and purchase their dime store branded tool box, or place an order for a $5,000 tool box to be shipped to the store.

Us Professional Rednecks master the shopping skills that so many home gamers struggle with.. Do We pay list price for Snap-on or ProTo tools?? We have no reason to do so.

This is exactly what should be preached.
Their are very few limits on whats accessible in today's market...

Hence the Signature...

 

[WittHay]

I took offence to the redneck student loan part which has nothing to do with a DIY. A lot of young mechanics around here are of Asian and South Asian descent. There are no student loans as the parents help them with the career of their choice. If a young guy wants to work on new Audi's and Mercedes all day, i am not going to tell him what tools to buy

For the DIY your choices are unlimited for tools. Even if you wanted a garage full of Cornwall tools. you could figure out a way to get them

 

[JBH]

Went looking and all Klein multimeters and clamp meters are now made in China by Uni-T (questionable quality).

Why do you call Uni-T "questionable quality"? Mine has worked fine for years.