Tool Brand Disillusionment

[davethorik]

Do We pay list price for Snap-on or ProTo tools??

Never heard of ProTo tools, are they any good?
Or do you mean "Proto"?
(which is what everyone else on earth, including Proto, calls the brand)

 

[mmason7764]

Why do you call Uni-T "questionable quality"? Mine has worked fine for years.

I took Dave Jones' word, he seems to know what he's talking about:

Been reading the EEVblog forum as part of my searching. Averaging a bunch of experiences there:

Uni-T build quality is hit or miss. High energy safety could be OK or bad.

Users working on low energy circuits usually don't encounter these problems. At higher voltages and/or amperages input protection can be critical.

Luckily, I don't know from first hand experience.

Mark

 

[Peoria Man]

Never heard of ProTo tools, are they any good?
Or do you mean "Proto"?
(which is what everyone else on earth, including Proto, calls the brand)

I think it refers to the pronunciation. Say it now: Pro Toe. Pro Toe.

Or maybe its Pro TOE.

 

[jd_1138]

Seems to me that these kind of threads always come down to "I'm pissed because I cant buy Made in U.S. tools at rock bottom prices anymore"

Let's just call this what it is...

Yeah, people need to take into consideration inflation. Back in the 1970's, a nice color TV cost like $500. $500 in 1970's dollars is like $2,000 now, but now you can buy a much larger and nicer TV (high def flat panel) for $500.

So a nicer product is 1/4th the price. So people expect that to extend to all product categories even tools.

 

[crewchief888]

All my life, I just thought you purchase tools because you want to build something or fix stuff.

It wasn't until I start coming here that I need tools to "complete" me.


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yea i bought tools to fix my bicycle, or needed tools when i started my machinist apprenticeship. bought some more tools to fix whatever POS car/truck/van i was driving.
i bought some more tools when i started wrenching professionally, added a few more when i needed stuff at home, cuz all my tools are locked up at the dealer i worked at.

bought some more tools when i needed them for around the house/DIY projects, repairs and remodeling.

decided to built another off road toy, and bought even more.....

i wonder if i'll ever be complete?

 

[sberry]

When I bought Cman in 80-90 they were 10 dents on the dollar of Snaps. Even before China in sets they were 5 or 6 cents on the dollar for a lot of them.

Yeah, people need to take into consideration inflation. Back in the 1970's, a nice color TV cost like $500. $500 in 1970's dollars is like $2,000 now, but now you can buy a much larger and nicer TV (high def flat panel) for $500.

Even disregarding inflation, walkie talkies, microwaves, VCR 400 then, 100 now for one works better and can buy cheaper ones for cheaper. Last VCR that came DVD was 69$ vs 400 for one 20 years earlier and worked better and longer.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Never heard of ProTo tools, are they any good?
Or do you mean "Proto"?
(which is what everyone else on earth, including Proto, calls the brand)

Might want to check some of their catalogs where Proto is spelled as Proto, PROTO, and their PROfessional TOols logo is/was used. PROTO is is what is stamped on My tools.

I will stick with PROTO to avoid any further confusion

 

[sberry]

Good bud of mine is a TV repair man. Lives at my place. I havnt fixed a
TV in near 20 years now. Bought a new one for my office, replaced one I paid 149$ for and it worked flawless for 10 years. Sure it didt last forever but the new one is way better and came with new features. The office one cost 69$.
We used to fix them all the time, vcr's too. My Buds just closed a shop, new got so cheap that no one fixes **** anymore.

 

[Tallpilot]

I have all of the above, from the best to the cheapest. The cheap impresses me the most, for 400$ it should be good but when it works as well as it does for 20 that is notable. If I had to start over again today it would begin at HF ad the few items that needed improvement would get it from basic brands, vise Grip, Channelok and the Stanley knife. 40 years ago you would have got the same quality argument from me, its a different world today when it takes a 4# hammer to ruin a dollar 3/8 end wrench. (or less than a dollar)
I have tools we thought were going to be disposable when we got them, still work so well 25 years later we don't even give it a thought any more except when coming to a site like this. There are a few pieces that still havnt caught up, sometimes simply cause some genius thinks he will improve the design but often the brand are relatively competitive anyway.

I have no idea what this thread is about besides making fun of tradesmen which is probably not the best idea on a forum dedicated to tools and their users. Sherry is correct though. I have some Snap-on stuff that works as expected but am I supposed to be impressed? I paid for the best so I expect the best and would be rightfully upset if that weren’t the case.

I am impressed when I find a manufacturer that provides something very high quality for a very reasonable price. I don’t want cheap junk but I also don’t want to overpay just for a status symbol. As I’ve said before that is one of the most important pieces of information we should share with each other on here.

I asked in another thread why someone thought Toptul was “tool truck” quality but some other Taiwanese manufactured brand was not. I need something more quantifiable than ‘I can tell’

 

[bob15]

I find it easier to buy tools now than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago using this great tool call the internet. Yes, we have lost a few good names/companies, but I found and have bought (quite easily) tools from brands I didn't know existed.

So OP, I'm not really sure of your issue.....have you tried using google? You will find a lot of tool companies that want to sell to you, both American and European.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

yea i bought tools to fix my bicycle, or needed tools when i started my machinist apprenticeship. bought some more tools to fix whatever POS car/truck/van i was driving.
i bought some more tools when i started wrenching professionally, added a few more when i needed stuff at home, cuz all my tools are locked up at the dealer i worked at.

bought some more tools when i needed them for around the house/DIY projects, repairs and remodeling.

decided to built another off road toy, and bought even more.....

i wonder if i'll ever be complete?

Na, I seriously doubt I am the only one with a backlog on their Santa Claus Wish List. You can claim to not believe in Santa Claus, but it is hard to deny the list.

 

[davethorik]

Might want to check some of their catalogs where Proto is spelled as Proto, PROTO, and their PROfessional TOols logo is/was used. PROTO is is what is stamped on My tools.

I will stick with PROTO to avoid any further confusion

LOL I was just busting your balls
The fact that you frequently mention Proto leads me to believe you have good taste in tools.

I find it easier to buy tools now than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago using this great tool call the internet. Yes, we have lost a few good names/companies, but I found and have bought (quite easily) tools from brands I didn't know existed.

So OP, I'm not really sure of your issue.....have you tried using google? You will find a lot of tool companies that want to sell to you, both American and European.

I agree, my dad who just turned 69 and was a diesel mechanic his whole life said he can't believe the number of brands there are today. His tools consist of mostly vintage Mac, some Snap-on (from trucks that visited where he worked), and some Wright (which he knew were made locally since their older tools are stamped BARBERTON, O)...most of his impact sockets are SK sets in the green hammertone boxes, which he said he bought off one of the tool trucks as their "economy option". Two of his favorite ratchets are a Proto 5250 long 3/8, and a New Britain round head 3/8 flex he bought at Napa in the 70s because he never had a flex and wanted to try one out. He also has a few Craftsman odds and ends, because who doesnt?

He had never heard of Herbrand or Bonney, which I find interesting as they weren't made far from this area. He didn't know Cornwell were made right down the road. He had seen Plvmb and assumed they were made by the Plumb hammer company, no idea they were older Proto. He had seen Matco trucks but they never stopped at his work so he didn't own any, and also didn't know they were originally a Mac offshoot. He had never heard of Thorsen, P&C, and other more regional brands. Really obscure tool makers he had never heard of, either.

I think a lot of times, especially for mechanics, you get what you need that is easily available. Some items will be added over time as the need arises. Learning about tools & tool history, and collecting them, is something he never got into. He just knew he needed tools to complete his work. I think this is still true today...most techs leave work at work. They don't go home and devote time and effort to research more tools. Especially with the mentality that truck tools are best, you wouldn't even bother look into other options if you already convinced yourself you had the best.

That being said, variety is the spice of life. With the internet, and GJ, there is a vast amount of knowledge available. Most people should be able to tailor their tool set to their specific needs and budgets. For example, do I like Snap-on tools? Of course! I think they are high quality and make a wide variety of tools for end users in different fields, not just automotive. But they are pricy! As a non-pro, that can be a tough pill to swallow, and is the reason I don't have many. Armed with the available knowledge, though, you can hit the used market and make it work for you. Even screaming deals, like Amazon specials and the hot deals thread, can help anybody build a nice set of professional grade tools at bargain basement prices.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Seems to me that these kind of threads always come down to "I'm pissed because I cant buy Made in U.S. tools at rock bottom prices anymore"

Let's just call this what it is...

Realistically, USA stuff may not be "rock bottom", but it can be found pretty cheap.

HJE has all sorts of cheap USA pliers and pry bars and hammers. My local lowes sells USA channel lock stuff, like $20 a pair. Top notch USA drill bit set can be had 1/16 through 3/8 for like $75. Okay, USA ratcheting wrenches are expensive, but USA metric wrenches from williams or SK are somewhat affordable. Or buy used USA stuff. Metric stuff might be harder to find, but SAE is beyond available.



Perhaps I am out of touch. I try to buy decent stuff I can keep and use for many years. I'm not rich, so quality vs. price is always a consideration. That said, I do not want for much. I can buy high quality products (tools and otherwise) with the money I make. I don't understand the lamenting over USA tool availability. They're available, they're not out of reach, especially if you look used. You buy a set of sockets for $100, they last 50 years. What am I missing?

 

[Specs]

Why do you have to hunt down tools and why the nonsense about rednecks?

You can order almost every Snap-on tool online and have it delivered to you house. Mac has more US tools now than in the past 10 years also available online. Matco ratchets. SK available through HJE and through their own website. Look at the Proto website, every tool has online distributors with prices.

Easier than ever for home guys who don't want to go to a real industrial tool store or get on a tool truck. Where they might see some of them there rednecks.

You get it. Ive been on a Snap-On truck 4 times. Twice for those orange pocket screwdrivers, and once for a deep 7/8” 1/2 drive socket. Somewhere a plier. I buy all my ratchet repair kits on snap on, (even though they could be rebuilt for free) I hunted for every tool im proud to own, and except for the newer HF stuff from taiwan, 90% American tools. I didnt pay full price, but i know i will be giving my next of kin these tools.

The only Disillusionment I have is how people act when they hear you opt for Snap on, Mac, Matco, and other premium tools. Then im centered again, when the ratchet or screwdriver they saved money on chipped a tooth or snapped the corner of the blade and ask me for mine.

I still have my S80’s with the screws that back off, and use blue thread locker. I’ll always go to advice from people that would be considered “Hick” cause experience has no limitation. Just like if same person asked me to fix their computer... no charge, cause we all gotta get along together.

 

[Mr_B]

I took Dave Jones' word, he seems to know what he's talking about:

Been reading the EEVblog forum as part of my searching. Averaging a bunch of experiences there:

Uni-T build quality is hit or miss. High energy safety could be OK or bad.

Users working on low energy circuits usually don't encounter these problems. At higher voltages and/or amperages input protection can be critical.

Luckily, I don't know from first hand experience.

Mark

uni-t build quality is pretty consistent, average .
safety features not top spec or safest for AC use but most people know what they getting for 25 to 45 bucks they putting into uni-t .
I use 2 of the clamp meters 210e and 202a for last 4 yrs in daily auto repair shop and done some basic mains testing with 1 of them too .
Never had an issue but wouldn't expect much from them in heavy AC mains use and most people who seem have issue with them are those who want and expect a hioti or fluke meter for uni-t money .
select models of the uni-t meter good tools in right usage circumstances and good qc considering the lowest costs you can find these meters at .
I paid less than 45bucks for my pair as a set and they do they tasks I bought them for perfectly and faultlessly to date .

 

[Gmonkee]

My entire work selection is used from just about anywhere and a lot of Asain import.
My home kit is slowly going new and used Stanley and a mix of whatever new or old junk that works.

A set of dollar store paint brushes has been used with no problems to keep my home looking good.

I have some bling tools and good paint brushes too but the quality of the work ultimately falls on me and not the price tag of my tools.

If one HAS to have all top line tools to do any job that is fine. His skills and pride will determine the quality of his result no matter his preferences.

 

[Lassen Forge]

This thread isn't just worthless without pictures... it's about worthless. Seriously - post it, get responses, then pull the original post??!!??

 

[BDT/NWMN]

This thread isn't just worthless without pictures... it's about worthless. Seriously - post it, get responses, then pull the original post??!!??

we can thank M6erfan for quoting the original post on post 29

 

[BigNuge]

Edit: The premise of this thread was that the added benefit of paying several times as much for an extremely similar product is questionable and the response has confirmed that.

Yes, tool truck debt is the redneck student loan, IMHO of course.

Would that make credit card debt the “high end home gamers” plastic surgery then...? Lol

Dude, you gotta be ready for the flames when you generalize and take shots based on the generalization. A lot of good hard working people categorize themselves as “redneck”, myself included (to an extent). I gotta say though, deleting and re-writing your initial post....pretty good way of proving the point that it wasn’t a good idea to take a swipe like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zendriver]

Edit: The premise of this thread was that the added benefit of paying several times as much for an extremely similar product is questionable and the response has confirmed that.

Yes, tool truck debt is the redneck student loan, IMHO of course.

Just because I have cash, to pay for all my tools, doesn't make me better than anybody else.

A lot of people now days work their *** off and don't make a lot of money but if they want to put what they have in the good name brand tools, why should we care?

Personally I love Harbor freight tools, but if I was a professional mechanic I wouldn't use anything but, snap on, if only to justify my hundred dollar in our shop rate and to write off my taxes.

If a guy that lives in a trailer wants to buy brand new Corvette as long as he doesn't owe me any money, that's his business!


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[nanofrog]

Went looking and all Klein multimeters and clamp meters are now made in China by Uni-T (questionable quality).

It depends on the model. Some are actually decent, and have sufficient protections for working on mains. The UT139 series for example. The C variant can be hand for under $40 shipped (example).

Others are really only suited to low voltage applications (poor input protections). You have to do your homework as they produce a LOT of models when all the variants are taken into account.

Tons of info over on the EEVBlog Forum if you're interested.

So, hunted for a US made multimeter and that means Fluke. The USA models start at $300. Below that they produce them in China, which I'm not supporting. So after a couple weeks of researching it's down to Greenlee made in Taiwan by Brymen or delay the purchase to save up for a Fluke 87V. Have not found used yet (stopped using e-bay years ago). Still haven't decided.

FWIW, Brymen makes excellent products IME.

You can also get them with Brymen's label (red case/boot rather than green used on the Greenlee rebrands) from TME.eu (located in Poland, but they sell internationally and the shipping is very reasonable).

FWIW, I've a mix of Fluke, Agilent, Brymen, Uni-T, and GW Instek for DMM's.

 

[jonshonda]

Edit: The premise of this thread was that the added benefit of paying several times as much for an extremely similar product is questionable and the response has confirmed that.

Yes, tool truck debt is the redneck student loan, IMHO of course.

Tuck tail and run...tuck tail and run!! :supergay:


Mods, can we change his username to Hewhotuckstail?

 

[Stooge]

I've never heard of AVE, but calling yourself a high end home gamer is just embarrassing. Especially while comparing a $30 set of wrenches to a set costing 10 times that and saying they are the same is just silly. It's not because 'Snap On doesn't care about you', you're just cheap.

i still don't get how wanting/ needing nicer or professional grade tools and utilizing a resource the tool trucks provide, is akin to being a redneck? When I think redneck, generally the first thought isn't having to do with them owning $300+ sets of combination wrenches.

I also don't remember a time in the last decade of having to go significantly out of my way to find any grade off tools, unless I want to buy it from a brick and mortar store, but these days you can have literally almost anything in your hands within a few days if you can pay for it. Even Snap On does free shipping to a certain amount and I don't remember having to wait more than 3 days for anything I've bought from them to arrive.

Another silly thread of some pseudo grand statement falling flat on its face because it doesn't hold water.

 

[ssdave]

The OP's premise, once he tries to explain it a bit instead of just insulting those that choose to spend more than he does, is that he's found cheaper tools than Snap-on, and is buying those.

Not a new concept, we see quite a few threads every week on that here. There's a whole range of quality above, at and below Snap-on, and a whole range of prices.

We live in a golden age of tools, where there are numerous choices available to us, at a wide menu of prices. We also have a wide range of users, with a huge range of needs. Some people just need a cheap adjustable wrench to tighten a bolt occasionally, some users work in critical industries where breakdowns cost thousands of dollars per hour and any advantage that can be bought in tools for money is welcomed.

I don't understand why someone that feels that they can't afford the expensive end, has to get "disillusioned" and start bashing the brand. Why not just look for a quality level that meets your needs, and is within your budget, and go onwards. Envying things that you can't afford, or choose not to spend your money on isn't a good attitude. It eats you up inside.

If you really have a need for the better tools that you don't feel you can afford, that is usually an indication that you're not charging enough for the services that require the use of those tools. Or, you're taking on work that is not worth what it takes to do it. If you're in that situation, you can change the behavior to fix the situation; charge more, or pay someone else to do the work if it has to be done. If it's too expensive to pay someone else, then invest in the tools and use the savings to pay for the tools. If you just want the better tools, but don't want to pay the price, there's no help there. You have to either decide to pay the price, or just find tools in your price range and buy them instead. There's a whole menu of quality and price to choose from.

 

[Specs]

I missed the “redneck student loan” part... Oops

Except for Jr. Boulder, I’ve not met one Master mechanic worth his salt that didnt start with that “ loan” ANDregret it. Sorry to say, but if a master mechanic tells me i can “get by” on some retail store sets, I usually ask “how long” and “what i should get off the truck.” Not anymore though, cause I didnt just blindly accept a snap on 4mm socket did some secret job a craftsman 4mm couldnt. Apples to apples. 27mm impact day in and out? Snap on. Mac. Proto. Matco. No questions asked.

 

[sweet victory]

I've never heard of AVE, but calling yourself a high end home gamer is just embarrassing.

Slight tangent on the thread, but AVE is the ****. Very in depth tool break downs and reviews.

 

[sweet victory]

Edit: The premise of this thread was that the added benefit of paying several times as much for an extremely similar product is questionable and the response has confirmed that.

Yes, tool truck debt is the redneck student loan, IMHO of course.

It's clear you're not familiar as to how professional mechanics make their money, the advantages to shaving time off flat rate jobs, and their work environment. Your perspective is very different when you're casually turning a wrench, versus trying to be as efficient as possible.

You resorted to ad hominem attacks to discredit anyone who had a different view point from you. Your intent is clear it was never to justify the added cost. If you can't elaborate your opinion to anything more than, "Yes, tool truck debt is the redneck student loan, IMHO of course" then you clearly aren't ready to have this conversation.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

As a "pro" I could comment a lot on this topic....but really, I just want to thank the OP and commenters for the entertainment!

 

[Rivguy]

This thread has been entertaining as well as a good introduction to some of the attitudes on the forum. I'm here to learn from what others have are doing and have accomplished. I don't have any interest in getting into a contest to see whose neck is redder or whose collar is bluer. Obviously, tools are not just the means that many here use to make their livelihoods but an important part of their self image. I'm over 60 years of age, my father and many of my family, myself included were UAW for years. My siblings and myself have moved into other fields a long time ago. I respect people for their accomplishments and their character. We obviously have a lively bunch here! When it comes to tools I buy what I need and can afford.

 

[davethorik]

Just because I have cash, to pay for all my tools, doesn't make me better than anybody else.

A lot of people now days work their *** off and don't make a lot of money but if they want to put what they have in the good name brand tools, why should we care?

Personally I love Harbor freight tools, but if I was a professional mechanic I wouldn't use anything but, snap on, if only to justify my hundred dollar in our shop rate and to write off my taxes.

If a guy that lives in a trailer wants to buy brand new Corvette as long as he doesn't owe me any money, that's his business!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good point! I think some people view tools, especially higher end tools, almost like a fashion trend...they see people on here with shiny, expensive truck tools, and it turns into a 'keeping up with the Joneses' scenario, and they wind up burnt out and financially overextended, because they didn't listen to their own needs and wants. Jealousy can be a very ugly thing.

I buy what I like, and what I can afford. I like high end tools, but not the price. The reality is, if I want them, I have to be patient til a deal pops up on the used market. Instant gratification needs to take a backseat to life, which can be a tough pill to swallow.

I don't view GJ as a contest, I think of it as a place where like minded individuals can BS about tools. Also a vast collection of knowledge that is free to use, and always being updated by the community, like a Wikipedia article.

 

[Tallpilot]

Slight tangent on the thread, but AVE is the ****. Very in depth tool break downs and reviews.

You will find opinions on him here to be quite binary with most on the side of disgust/hatred. He’s an engineer by education if not profession so he does comes across the same way Dennis does. I’ve found that most people don’t like listening to people who know more than they do. It makes them feel inferior (or something similar I am only an armchair sociologist). I don’t understand this; I go out of my way to spend time with people who know more than I do so I can learn.

That being said his nearly constant use of too cute by half colloquialisms is annoying.

 

[norsecarnut]

Why do you have to hunt down tools and why the nonsense about rednecks?

You can order almost every Snap-on tool online and have it delivered to you house. Mac has more US tools now than in the past 10 years also available online. Matco ratchets. SK available through HJE and through their own website. Look at the Proto website, every tool has online distributors with prices.

Easier than ever for home guys who don't want to go to a real industrial tool store or get on a tool truck. Where they might see some of them there rednecks.

Proto! I am fortunate to have a place like Tacoma Screw only few miles away where I first learned about Proto, Knipex and Durham bits n pieces racks.

I have a Knipex fetish but have found that different brands sometimes have certain items that work better or are priced way better. Like Proto the sockets and ratcheting combination wrenches (all USA) are my preference for value whereas I found the Snap-On ratchets to be my favorite.

Box wrenches though I have a mix because each brand sort of approaches even the same spec a little differently like a 10 or 15 degree offset sounds the same on paper but side by side one will access a situation slightly better than the other.

I really like the design of Proto Titanium level air tools though. Have the 3/4, a 1/2" standard & 1/2 mini.

 

[WittHay]

^ I agree, the Proto I have bought has been good. Wrenches, prybars, punches + chisels, retaining ring pliers. No regrets or "disillusionment" of buying a top quality brand.

The regrets I have in tool purchases have been buying the cheap stuff because your in a hurry or you think it might work for the few times you need it. The cheap tools work but there is always a but. It worked but it broke the 2nd time. It worked but it dulled quickly. It works but its hard to adjust. It worked but it bent. it works but doesn't have the power

Always surprises with cheaper stuff though, have a $30 Ryobi grinder that has lasted years

The Snap-on, Proto, Mac and other good quality tools do the job. last and there is no buts