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Tool Brands you cannot stand . . .

M635_Guy

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People seem to have filled in a lot of narrative "details" about Icon from thin air. They are definitely copying the Snap On vibe, which I think is silly and unnecessary, but since it's just me in my garage, IDGAF either way. But where I can find objective testing they perform well - way better than their Pittsburgh shelf-mates and up there with a lot of truck tools.

I can't think of a brand I "can't stand" - I don't like DeWalt's ergonomics, but that's a different-strokes kind of thing. I feel like SBD hasn't been a great home for most of the brands under their umbrella...
 
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IRQVET

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Interesting take on Crescent, I always thought they made good stuff, but I’ve almost been out of the tool hording game for a while and I’m just tip toeing my way back into. But I’m now a little overwhelmed by the amount of brands on the market today compared to say 20 years ago. That was alot of the inspiration behind this thread. Lots of smart folks with more experience than I have currently.
 

Lassen Forge

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The romantic hills of central Umbria, Italy,
I can't tell you the brand, but they're made in India, come in a blue tin clamshell box, and cost $29 for the set at the local chain auto parts store. Use once and throw away, if you're lucky you will actually GET one use out of them. You know the ones I'm talking about...
 

bwringer

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Indianapolis
I don't know of any brands I hate, but there is one brand that everybody seems to love that I have never had a good experience with.

Knipex :eek:

I have a pair of needle nose pliers and one of the ends snapped off with little force. I looked into getting them replaced, but don't have the original receipt so it's not going to happen. I also have a pair of Raptor pliers, and they just don't seem to work like I hoped. No matter how tight I squeeze, the bolts still turn in the jaws, even ones that are not rounded. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

I'm also not a big fan of Black and Decker, Stanley, or Crescent, even though I have several of each.


Ya know, I love my Knipex stuff, but I am also perfectly willing to admit they're not for everyone, if that makes sense.

The needle nose pliers are a good example; yes, the most commonly sold set has very, very thin jaws that will bend and break when used with any force. The Germanic reply is "Well, of course they broke. You're using them wrong; that's not what they're for. They're for reaching things, not twisting and yanking."

Knipex has bajillions of different designs for pliers, each suited for a limited set of use cases.

Meanwhile, Channel-Lock, Klein, etc. are making maybe three sizes of "American" pattern needle nose pliers that aren't as exquisitely thin and delicate, and these survive for generations.

The hardening is different, too; Knipex stuff tends to be very hard in the gripping and cutting areas, and this can make them brittle. In some examples, I think maybe the hardening process has problems and you end up with a significant portion of reports of broken pliers.

If you're willing to put up with that sort of tradeoff, then you might like Knipex. If that sounds silly, then yeah, get one of the decent, tough American brands and you'll be happier.
 

BarrelRoll

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Jan 10, 2006
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415
Location
Alaska
Snap-On, for the rates they charge on financing for new guys just entering the repair trade.

What are you talking about? Financing on a truck account is 0%. The only thing most guys pay actual interest on is tool boxes, high dollar scan tools, and shop equipment which can be close to credit card interest, it currently ranges from 10-25% depending on credit score. Buying a ratchet on credit off the truck on a truck account is 0% financing.
 

micromind

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Sep 24, 2023
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Fernley, Nevada, about 30 miles east of Reno.
Apex tool company and anything made by them, especially Gearwrench. They killed so many great American tool companies and hollowed out many others such that they exist now in name only.

Also Icon. There’s no innovation, just blatant ripoffs of Snap On designs. It’s unseemly.

Completely agree!!

Apex used to be a great brand but since they 'went corporate', and bought and closed down more than a few really good brands, I simply refuse to buy anything from any company they own.

Armstrong comes to mind. I considered it to be one of the very best tool companies but Apex bought it and closed it down. Not forgivable........
 

isb cornbinder

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Nov 3, 2010
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7,073
Location
Pacific South West, BC, Canada
I spent $32k plus tax on a new Electra Glide Classic. The sales person, with joy in her voice, announced, "It comes with its own tool kit." The tool kit was made up of the worst looking tools I ever held. I put the tools back into the cheaply made plastic tool wrap and put them on a high shelf, in the shop. I told myself, "Those will go with the bike." Who ever made those ugly wrenches did not put their name on the tools. I should give some credit where it is due, the screwdriver, with exchangeable bit was just OK.
 

seber

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May 31, 2016
Messages
4,195
Location
Deep East Tx.
I've always avoided Craftsman since my first set of tools. Every one of them got replaced under warranty before I started buyng better. That being said, I now have a couple of their Made in China ratchets that I really like.
 

zendriver

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Dec 10, 2014
Messages
29,762
Location
Indiana
Icon is "Snap On for poor people"

Nicer quality and nicer looking but hard to justify the price increase over PP items, for average Joe - the typical HF shopper. IMO
 

freudianfloyd

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Feb 12, 2015
Messages
3,426
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Nowhere
Interesting take on Crescent, I always thought they made good stuff, but I’ve almost been out of the tool hording game for a while and I’m just tip toeing my way back into. But I’m now a little overwhelmed by the amount of brands on the market today compared to say 20 years ago. That was alot of the inspiration behind this thread. Lots of smart folks with more experience than I have currently.
We have sets of Crescent tools at work, and while they aren't bad, they are really basic in terms of quality and fit and finish. I think my "hate" for them has more to do with what used to be a good reputable brand is now sub-par.
 

Steve_P

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Sep 15, 2010
Messages
5,181
Dunno about all the hate for Craftsman of yore, I know it's popular to hate on them here, but somehow, they were in every home garage, and nearly every pro service garage, in the US for decades; and they somehow functioned just fine for all of us old people that actually used them. And the same with SK and Proto. All of these brands were certainly used professionally. A lot. Not everyone had Snap On; Craftsman and SK were everywhere being used professionally decades ago. To be clear, I'm talking about USA Craftsman from 15+ years ago, and SK from 10+ years ago.

Was Craftsman the best? No, but it was good enough for 99% of us. It was never supposed to be the best; it was about availability, durability, price, and warranty. In 2000, or prior, if you needed a 1-1/4" socket at 1:00 on a Sunday afternoon, you could drive to Sears and get it. You really couldn't do that anywhere else. This was the business model that made it so successful. Plus, the tools weren't junk.

I've owned a lot of USA Craftsman tools and only warrantied a few pliers and screwdrivers for normal wear. I had an absolute **** set of "Craftsman Pro" screwdrivers, USA, from the early 2000's that must have been made of lead. But otherwise, I'm still using some chrome sockets and wrenches from 15+ years ago. And they are not garbage.
 

Jeepster04

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Jun 25, 2013
Messages
3,093
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the USA craftsman sockets and the majority of their other USA hand tools. I'll most likely use them for many more decades till I die and I suspect I'll never have an issue with them.

I do agree about their ratchets though, not my favorite.
 

Pinemarten

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Jan 23, 2023
Messages
333
Location
Washington
What are you talking about? Financing on a truck account is 0%. The only thing most guys pay actual interest on is tool boxes, high dollar scan tools, and shop equipment which can be close to credit card interest, it currently ranges from 10-25% depending on credit score. Buying a ratchet on credit off the truck on a truck account is 0% financing.
The interest is factored into the price. The poor suckers who pay the truck guy in cash subsidize the people who flake out on their payments. If buying a $30 dollar ratchet for $125 isn't debt service, then what is it?
 

neophyte

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Apr 23, 2012
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9,570
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Pennsylvannia
Almost everything is an import if you're Canadian.
General Tools (the small hand tools) used to mostly be actually made in Canada.
General Machinery, such as table saws etc. did as well.

Canada still has niche brands, such as Oneway for woodworking lathes and accessories (top top of the line), and Lee Valley/Veritas, which are top of the line for woodworking hand tools.

I believe there are some other things as well.
 

dsaabm

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Jan 6, 2009
Messages
308
Location
USA
Sonic Tools - A marketing company selling foam'd taiwan tools that pretends to be a high end euro brand and pays "influencers" to shill their stuff

Icon Tools - HF took the low road with this brand and literally just copy Snap-on stuff right down to the font

SK Tools - Mismanaged into the ground and now Chinatown GreatStar specials

Matco Tools - A few gems but a rebrand truck with the worst dealers I have experienced out of all the tool truck brands

Gearwrench - Clear cost savings measures over the last 5+ years, quality isn't what it once was, mostly just disappointed with this brand
 
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MOS3522

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Colorado
The interest is factored into the price. The poor suckers who pay the truck guy in cash subsidize the people who flake out on their payments. If buying a $30 dollar ratchet for $125 isn't debt service, then what is it?


Yep, and paying on installments. That's imputed interest that could be usurious if it was just expressed as a financing charge. Plus the young guys don't understand debt that well. It really is a good racket if you are on the supply side.
 

Pinemarten

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Jan 23, 2023
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Buffalo and Wilmar tools, back in the day. Snap-on now, for the pricing, the quality is excellent, value per dollar.....not so much!
 

rhastings80

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Apr 1, 2009
Messages
636
I am going to say Armstrong. The older stuff as great but newer stuff was from what I could tell exactly the same as Craftsman with a huge matkup. Also I have yet to spot a used ratchet of theirs that isn’t broken. I don’t think they are even in production anymore.
 

bobg03

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Aug 29, 2020
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conway sc
As a young homeowner and DIY'er many years ago, Craftsman worked for many years in a non professional setting, along with a bunch of SK products thrown in.
I still have all my older SK stuff but don't see any new purchases in my future. I'll keep whats left of my older Craftsman but gifted/downsized a large portion of it.

For dislike I'd go with the new Craftsman, again I'm not in the market but the newer stuff looks too fancy to have any appeal to me even if I needed something. There's just something unappealing to me about the look of them, I guess growing up with the raised panel wrenches and ratchets is just ingrained in my mind as a very useful utilitarion tool. The pliers went downhill first in looks and were upgraded long ago.

I guess what I'm saying is that if the visual appearance has no attraction to me I'm out.
I have one Snap On ratchet and one set of Icon box wrenches, they're very nice and functional but I don't see any future purchases with either of those brands either, just for lack of need.

Kind of like, do I want to drive a Chevette or a Chevelle? Yes I'm a Boomer... :cool:
 

Blackmarket

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Mar 30, 2013
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181
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Dead center Wisconsin
They're just typically clunky and outdated tools.
I have to agree. Example: Place I worked gave a bunch of us Proto torque wrenches. First time I used it I hated it. Low tooth count and you had to move the damn thing 6" while you were tightening to get to the next tooth. Gave it away and bought a much better torque wrench.
 
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RLaCasse1

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Mar 8, 2014
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272
May catch some flack here, but Milwaukee power tools. People churched them up so much, I expected a borderline heavenly experience when I bought one. But, I still prefer my DeWalt stuff.

The only reason I can't stand them is because of how people rave about them, despite them being on par with other good products. Kinda like In-N-Out.
 

Bubba Fett

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Stanley-branded tools that are typically sold in stores are typically bottom-of-the-barrel garbage. Their tape measures are good, but not the best.

That said, I love the old Stanley hammers and 100-Plus Screwdrivers.
 

bwringer

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I spent $32k plus tax on a new Electra Glide Classic. The sales person, with joy in her voice, announced, "It comes with its own tool kit." The tool kit was made up of the worst looking tools I ever held. I put the tools back into the cheaply made plastic tool wrap and put them on a high shelf, in the shop. I told myself, "Those will go with the bike." Who ever made those ugly wrenches did not put their name on the tools. I should give some credit where it is due, the screwdriver, with exchangeable bit was just OK.
BMW motorcycles actually come with halfway decent tools. Not fantabulous, but serviceable, and light-years beyond the cheddar cheese (or nothing) found in almost all other bikes.



May catch some flack here, but Milwaukee power tools. People churched them up so much, I expected a borderline heavenly experience when I bought one. But, I still prefer my DeWalt stuff.

The only reason I can't stand them is because of how people rave about them, despite them being on par with other good products. Kinda like In-N-Out.
Uh-oh, you're in danger of touching off a Red vs. Yellow holy war, which always carries the risk of an incursion from the Blue-Green Faithful.

I'll just be over here with my vast array of fluorescent gorilla snot yellow stuff, quietly getting stuff done...



Stanley-branded tools that are typically sold in stores are typically bottom-of-the-barrel garbage. Their tape measures are good, but not the best.

That said, I love the old Stanley hammers and 100-Plus Screwdrivers.
Yeah, Stanley fell into disgrace a LONG time ago. I was super-disappointed when Meijer stores stopped carrying Tekton and replaced it with Stanley's bumblebee stuff. Oh well, it was cool while it lasted.



Back to the actual topic... I just remembered that a few years ago I got a little bored and finally culled out and threw away the last remnants of the K-Mart sockets and wrenches I bought in high school and college.

On one hand, I kept a lot of tired old hoopties running way too long with this stuff, when I couldn't afford anything decent from the Sears down the road.

On the other hand, just looking at that peeling 12mm wrench with the off-center broaching and spread-out open end caused a wave of anxiety. I also had quite a few random cracked and janky sockets, horrible bent ratchets, etc.

And then one day I finally had the epiphany I needed... "Oh, yeah, I can just toss this hateful, hated thing into the garbage, and no one will stop me. I'll never miss it. I have plenty of better wrenches now. It's not remotely collectible, or useful to anyone."

So, yeah. K-Mart tools. Awful. Good riddance.

It was rather shocking years later when the new Chinese "Craftsman" stuff appeared in K-Marts. And then K-Mart went toes-up... like Sears, there's still a twitching online carcass of the company, and they're somehow related now...


Also, Sears used to have a "secondary" brand, cheap terrible stuff they couldn't peddle as Craftsman. I don't remember what it was called exactly (maybe just "Sears"?), but it was dreadful. It was back when they were starting to circle the drain.

I still remember the shock of walking into the Sears tool department to buy a 10mm wrench, and the first time I found the Chinese lobster claw shite mingled with the US-made "good stuff". Seeing the writing on the wall, I rummaged until I found several of the remaining good metric wrenches and bought them for spares.
 
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engineer2

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Dec 13, 2009
Messages
11,795
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Chicago burbs
My Bosch quarter sheet sander. Works fine, but it eats the orbital bearing about once a year and the sandpaper lock lever about every 3 years.
Chinese power supply from Amazon. No fuse since it is supposed to be 'short circuit protected'. Accidentally dropped a lead on the other and BOOM! Let the smoke out. No parts or product support.
Fluke 1AC non-contact voltage tester. Wonky and unreliable. Criticized it on another forum and got flamed "Thou shalt not criticize Fluke!"
 

Kscardsfan

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The Little Apple
Craftsman, they have never been great other than in the nostalgia fogged minds of baby boomers. The only thing craftsman brought to the table were wide distribution and depth of product line, the actual tools were mediocre at best. When they had something truly great they either discontinued it or found some way to screw it up. Then you have every self proclaimed tool nut DIYer thats never done more than change their own oil singing its praises. Now with SBD abandoning their commitment to reshoring without even giving it a shot and trying to sweep it under the rug there's even more to hate about the brand.

Matco, nothing but a middleman with an exorbitant mark up for truck service and lifetime warranty on foreign re-branded tools.
Their mechanics tools were alright at best; but the carpentry/building trades tools were actually really good tools, made by really good manufacturers, with a great warranty. I used a bunch of older USA made craftsman long after they had moved the brand offshore in residential home construction/carpentry and electrical work without a second thought. They had contracts with great brands with a warranty that the OEM manufacturers didn't carry, like if you notched a set of Kleins on a live wire you are stuck, you notched a pair of craftsman's you felt like a ***** but you weren't out $20-30 for a replacement.
 
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IRQVET

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Forgotten Coast (FL)
May catch some flack here, but Milwaukee power tools. People churched them up so much, I expected a borderline heavenly experience when I bought one. But, I still prefer my DeWalt stuff.

The only reason I can't stand them is because of how people rave about them, despite them being on par with other good products. Kinda like In-N-Out.
I have no experience with Milwaukee but one of buddies swears they are best tools ever. I know my buddies justification for his electrified tools is he wanted to stay on one battery platform, so once he went Milwaukee there was no turning back for him, which makes total sense to me. I have a few Dewalt 20V impacts and an Dewalt 20V 3/8 angle driver which I REALLY like. So going off his logic I’ll most likely stick with everything Dewalt.

And +1 on the whole In-N-Out reference, lol. 💯
 

genog

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Sep 4, 2021
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Silicon Valley
Wow
This thread has been pretty civil so far.... 👍

When I read the title of it, I was about to pop a big bowl of popcorn and watch the fireworks

That being said, I will say I am not a big fan of Old USA brands of tools that are currently made overseas.
I don't hate them...
Don't have a big dislike for them...
....just not a fan
 

BarrelRoll

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Jan 10, 2006
Messages
415
Location
Alaska
The interest is factored into the price. The poor suckers who pay the truck guy in cash subsidize the people who flake out on their payments. If buying a $30 dollar ratchet for $125 isn't debt service, then what is it?

Most tool truck dealers are pretty good about getting debt covered and if necessary repossessing tools. Snapon truck retail prices are set by snapon corporate, not the franchisee. The truck can't jack prices through the roof because he has a lot of defaults. The majority of trucks are indpendently owned, bad debt is independet to that particular truck and doesn't effect another franchisee.

I use my truck account, might as well drag it out for 0% when I can use the money elsewhere to either pay down or prevent taking on debt. The majority of stuff I buy off the truck is on special below retail pricing. Buy it when it's 20%+ off and pay it off over time instead of dipping into savings or putting it on a credit card. I also buy a lot of snappy off e-bay, my guy has 0 issues warrantying it even if I didn't buy it from him.

When you finance a box through snapon credit there's an additional rebate, if you pay it off in a year you usually come out ahead, if you pay it off in 90 days there's no interest and you still get the credit.

A lot of the people bad mouthing the tool trucks have never stepped foot on one or don't understand how it works. There's plenty I won't buy off the truck, it just doesn't make sense. It's also different when you are a home jobber vs. turning wrenches for a living. I'd rather not be frustrated with my tools when I'm in the middle of a job going sideways with a mill down effecting my bonus.
 

CoogarXR

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Jan 11, 2016
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6,846
Location
Ohio
I won't own Dewalt tools, just because of the reputation they have locally. They are the choice of the meth-head, paid-by-the-day laborers. Every sleaze-bag cash job you see in progress, there's some toothless guy blasting his Dewalt jobsite radio, running his giant Dewalt drills and saws, etc. When you go to the pawn shop, the tool section is ALL Dewalt. No doubt from the same crackheads hocking their tools at the end of a job.

I have only ever used one Dewalt drill, and it was about 5x the size and weight it needed to be for the torque and battery life it had.

No offense to anyone who uses/loves them. This is just my local experience. They just seem like the Chevy Lumina of tools to me.
 

Kscardsfan

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Apr 28, 2020
Messages
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The Little Apple
Ya know, I love my Knipex stuff, but I am also perfectly willing to admit they're not for everyone, if that makes sense.

The needle nose pliers are a good example; yes, the most commonly sold set has very, very thin jaws that will bend and break when used with any force. The Germanic reply is "Well, of course they broke. You're using them wrong; that's not what they're for. They're for reaching things, not twisting and yanking."

Knipex has bajillions of different designs for pliers, each suited for a limited set of use cases.

Meanwhile, Channel-Lock, Klein, etc. are making maybe three sizes of "American" pattern needle nose pliers that aren't as exquisitely thin and delicate, and these survive for generations.

The hardening is different, too; Knipex stuff tends to be very hard in the gripping and cutting areas, and this can make them brittle. In some examples, I think maybe the hardening process has problems and you end up with a significant portion of reports of broken pliers.

If you're willing to put up with that sort of tradeoff, then you might like Knipex. If that sounds silly, then yeah, get one of the decent, tough American brands and you'll be happier.
No, you just buy some of the Knipex, some of Channellock, some Wilde, and some Klein so you end up with overwhelming confusion from your wife or children when you ask them to grab you some needle nose from the garage. Or you end up bringing 9 pairs of pliers with you to make sure you have the right pair handy for the one pin you need to pull out.
 

Bubba Fett

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Jun 11, 2018
Messages
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Eastern NC
BMW motorcycles actually come with halfway decent tools. Not fantabulous, but serviceable, and light-years beyond the cheddar cheese (or nothing) found in almost all other bikes.




Uh-oh, you're in danger of touching off a Red vs. Yellow holy war, which always carries the risk of an incursion from the Blue-Green Faithful.

I'll just be over here with my vast array of fluorescent gorilla snot yellow stuff, quietly getting stuff done...




Yeah, Stanley fell into disgrace a LONG time ago. I was super-disappointed when Meijer stores stopped carrying Tekton and replaced it with Stanley's bumblebee stuff. Oh well, it was cool while it lasted.



Back to the actual topic... I just remembered that a few years ago I got a little bored and finally culled out and threw away the last remnants of the K-Mart sockets and wrenches I bought in high school and college.

On one hand, I kept a lot of tired old hoopties running way too long with this stuff, when I couldn't afford anything decent from the Sears down the road.

On the other hand, just looking at that peeling 12mm wrench with the off-center broaching and spread-out open end caused a wave of anxiety. I also had quite a few random cracked and janky sockets, horrible bent ratchets, etc.

And then one day I finally had the epiphany I needed... "Oh, yeah, I can just toss this hateful, hated thing into the garbage, and no one will stop me. I'll never miss it. I have plenty of better wrenches now. It's not remotely collectible, or useful to anyone."

So, yeah. K-Mart tools. Awful. Good riddance.

It was rather shocking years later when the new Chinese "Craftsman" stuff appeared in K-Marts. And then K-Mart went toes-up... like Sears, there's still a twitching online carcass of the company, and they're somehow related now...


Also, Sears used to have a "secondary" brand, cheap terrible stuff they couldn't peddle as Craftsman. I don't remember what it was called exactly (maybe just "Sears"?), but it was dreadful. It was back when they were starting to circle the drain.

I still remember the shock of walking into the Sears tool department to buy a 10mm wrench, and the first time I found the Chinese lobster claw shite mingled with the US-made "good stuff". Seeing the writing on the wall, I rummaged until I found several of the remaining good metric wrenches and bought them for spares.
Their secondary brands were Dunlap (quite good), Sears (decent) and Companion (good, or just decent depending on the tool), and Evolv (decent, but got terrible over time).

I like old USA-made Craftsman tools, but around the mid 2000's the quality started to take major nose dives as they began off-shoring.
 
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IRQVET

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Forgotten Coast (FL)
Their secondary brands were Dunlap (quite good), Sears (decent) and Companion (good but got terrible over time).

I like old USA-made Craftsman tools, but around the mid 2000's the quality started to take major nose dives as they began off-shoring.
Yeah I’m a hack/DIY guy but I do wrench alot of race mechanic stuff (Both my daughters race). I had been limping my 1998 Craftsman Mechanics Tool set along for a VERY long time. It was a great set so its sad to hear about their decline in quality. Unfortunately for me I misplaced about 70% of the sockets over the years, so it was time to replace that old set with a new complete set.

I generally have cheap tools in my race trailer so if they grow legs in the pits its no big deal. But currently I’m trying to re-outfit the tools in my garage at the casa with quality stuff.
 

M635_Guy

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Dec 5, 2019
Messages
4,333
Location
NC
May catch some flack here, but Milwaukee power tools. People churched them up so much, I expected a borderline heavenly experience when I bought one. But, I still prefer my DeWalt stuff.

The only reason I can't stand them is because of how people rave about them, despite them being on par with other good products. Kinda like In-N-Out.
It's a very similar thing with Nikon vs. Canon in the SLR photography world. The real answer is they're both good photography platforms and the differences are generally a to-may-to vs. to-mah-to thing, and people to great work with both.
 
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