Tool Buying PSA

[mikester]

Tool Buying PSA UPDATE

Some of you folks may remember my thread about torque wrenches a week or two ago.
In the end I wound up ordering a new Gearwrench 85063. It was pretty much the range and drive I had. Shopped around, cheapest price was under $100 at Amazon and through a special order at Walmart.
Since theres a Walmart less than 20 minutes from my house I thought it would make sense to order it through there just in case there was a problem. Ordered it Monday and it was there today. Glad I bought it there.
Came home and I was like a kid at Christmas. I know you guys know that feeling. LOL
Opened the plastic case and the first thing I noticed was oily finger prints all over the ratchet end. Then I see the wrench is set at 30lbs. Case has some scratches.
I called Apex Tool down in NC. The guy that is helping me requested a ton of pictures that are already sent. Turns out Walmart might have had a 3rd party supply this tool. Not Walmart, not Gearwrench but some knucklhead that might have an account with Walmart. This *****. Its like ordering a new pair of tighty whiteys and getting someones worn dirty drawers. Needless to say Im really pissed.
I can take it back and get a refund tonight but Im waiting for the guy from Apex to call me. Maybe they will swap it for a new one since I have a receipt.
Moral of the story...Be careful who you buy from.

 

[superduty1]

The whole third party sellers is a nightmare. When you order from Walmart.com you think you are buying from Walmart, but the reality of it is there are many sellers that sell through their www site, which i don't fully understand. The same is true on Amazon.

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[Parrothead]

The whole third party sellers is a nightmare. When you order from Walmart.com you think you are buying from Walmart, but the reality of it is there are many sellers that sell through their www site, which i don't fully understand. The same is true on Amazon.

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You do know there’s a filter that allows you to sort the retailers It’s on Walmart’s website that sorts for just sold by Walmart . On Amazon I buy Prime almost exclusively.

 

[M6erfan]

Yeah, Walmart online ordering is shady. My wife ordered something thinking that it was from Walmart and instead it was a third party seller that turned out to be a nightmare. Eventually she called the CC company to cancel the order/charge and the CC company said that the seller had a history of fraud or something or other. Wife had to cancel her account and get a new card.

 

[ChrisLS8]

Yup, on Amazon I only purchase Prime and it has to be fulfilled by Amazon

 

[superduty1]

You do know there’s a filter that allows you to sort the retailers It’s on Walmart’s website that sorts for just sold by Walmart . On Amazon I buy Prime almost exclusively.

Good advice. I do the same. Excellent point about the filters.

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[Bretny]

On walmarts site it says in prety big letters who your buying it from.

On amazon it also says but i wouldnt worry about 3rd party sellers on there. Amazon always seams to have the buyers back.

 

[mikester]

Just checked my order to see if there was anything about a 3rd party. It says sold and shipped by Walmart.

 

[Legion Prime]

Did you contact Walmart about it at all?

 

[techieman33]

Yup, on Amazon I only purchase Prime and it has to be fulfilled by Amazon

That doesn't matter. They co-mingle their inventory. So if you order a widget from Amazon it might be one that they sourced. Or it could just as easily be something sent in by a 3rd party seller for prime shipping that happens to be in a location closer to you.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Yup, on Amazon I only purchase Prime and it has to be fulfilled by Amazon

The Wall Street Journal had a pretty critical article on Amazon (Aug 23, 2019) and their 3rd party fulfillment practices. The WSJ article exposed >4000 items being sold that were declared unsafe by federal agencies. 57% of those were being fulfilled by Amazon. Another issue is that Amazon charges vendors more to store your stock separately from everyone else of the same product. So everyone chooses to "co-mingle" their inventory at Amazon. This allows shady folks to ship counterfeit product to Amazon and it all gets mixed together. There have been reports of buyers getting counterfeit Mitutoyo digital calipers from Amazon directly (not a "fulfilled by Amazon" transaction).

Yesterday, Amazon announced they may have to spend billions of dollars to prevent the sale of counterfeit good, expired food, and dangerous products. I suspect damning August article may have something to do with this.

Oddly, per the article Walmart got higher praise for doing a better job of vetting prospective third party sellers than Amazon. Only a fraction of those who apply actually make it though Walmart's application process.

 

[mikester]

Did you contact Walmart about it at all?

No, I contacted Gearwrench first. I asked a customer service rep how they were shipped thinking maybe thats the way it was supposed to be. I could understand prints. But the thing that had me concerned was not being set at 0.
I didnt hear from the rep by the end of the day so I'll call him later today. Im sure he got all the photos he requested. Not sure why he wanted all of them. Maybe he's going to have me sent it to him and swap it out for a new one directly from Gearwrench. If not, I'm taking it back to the store and getting a refund.
Then I'll order it from a tool supply.

 

[Schurkey]

I wound up ordering a new Gearwrench 85063.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016KC2UCC/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Amazon says that's a 20--150 ft/lb torque wrench, made in Communist China.

Opened the plastic case and the first thing I noticed was oily finger prints all over the ratchet end.

Not Acceptable.

Case has some scratches.

Not making any friends there, either. Better the case than the tool. The case is there to provide protection for the tool, after all.

Then I see the wrench is set at 30lbs.

Total non-issue. Not even worth breathing hard. Torque wrenches are typically turned to the lowest rated torque, NOT TO ZERO. That'd be 20 in this example. But that torque wrench is "rated" for a lower torque than industry standard, which would be 20% of full scale...which is 30 ft/lbs.

What does the owner's manual say about turning the wrench down?

I wouldn't buy a Chinese torque wrench to begin with...but getting a "used" wrench as if it were "new" would piss me off to no end.

 

[techieman33]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016KC2UCC/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Amazon says that's a 20--150 ft/lb torque wrench, made in Communist China.


Not Acceptable.


Not making any friends there, either. Better the case than the tool. The case is there to provide protection for the tool, after all.


Total non-issue. Not even worth breathing hard. Torque wrenches are typically turned to the lowest rated torque, NOT TO ZERO. That'd be 20 in this example. But that torque wrench is "rated" for a lower torque than industry standard, which would be 20% of full scale...which is 30 ft/lbs.

What does the owner's manual say about turning the wrench down?

I wouldn't buy a Chinese torque wrench to begin with...but getting a "used" wrench as if it were "new" would piss me off to no end.

I mean people buy tools off of a truck all the time that have been handled by the dealer and maybe even some other potential buyers. May have even been "tried out" once or twice. Never hear any complaints about that. Personally I don't care about a couple finger prints. Tools get used and they'll end up with finger prints and a whole lot worse on them unless you just pull them out to wipe the dust off. It's not like real physical damage.

 

[M6erfan]

I mean people buy tools off of a truck all the time that have been handled by the dealer and maybe even some other potential buyers. May have even been "tried out" once or twice. Never hear any complaints about that. Personally I don't care about a couple finger prints. Tools get used and they'll end up with finger prints and a whole lot worse on them unless you just pull them out to wipe the dust off. It's not like real physical damage.

It's a torque wrench. I'd want mine un-used unless I knew going in that it was used and I was prepared to pay for calibration/repairs.

 

[visionguru]

.... But the thing that had me concerned was not being set at 0.
....

Being a 20-150 ft-lb torque wrench, the lowest setting you can set is 20. It could be the calibrator who left the setting at 30, which is totally fine. You are overreacting over this.

The finger prints could be from the calibrator too.

I think your are suspecting: if it's been tampered with or used. I had Gearwrench ratchet set that came with dirt, prints, and scratches, and socket set missing a socket, both were factory sealed. The packaging of your torque wrench seems pretty normal, unfortunately.

If you are not happy, just return it and buy another one. It's a waste of time calling Gearwrench or Walmart and going into minute details, simply not worth it.

 

[X1 Mike]

If you ask me third party sellers are freaking great!!!!

Everyone always wants to ***** about these huge companies pushing the mom and pop places out of business but if you are someone willing to be a third party seller you can have a mom and pop shop but have access to customers around the globe.

Ok, you got a tool that was used and returned, BFD get over it and send it back. They make it as hassle free as can be.

 

[DFB]

Hmm seems clear enough to me the 3rd party sellers on WalMart's website with direct shipping and return policies, and customer feedback ratings, was just looking at a Milwaukee Mid Torque kit as an example. 6 options one being sold and shipped by Walmart. So the question for is where does Walmart source it's product from :

Would one assume one of those additional listed vendors is also the general warehouse supplier, isn't that how Amazon does it when you buy thru Amazon as the seller. (They dont really buy the products they stock)

And your paying for both the generally hassle free convenience of fast delivery or store pickup and a hassle free return policy?


Be great if Apex steps up to assist but I'd be surprised if they do

 

[rijndael]

This sounds like the difference between "Like New" and "New". I've also had an issue with a GearWrench tool arriving dirty/used, but sold as new, and when I complained they refunded me all of the money and told me to keep it. It was a $150 item. I was pretty happy with that.

 

[Shark Pilot]

If the wrench is made in Taiwan, then it would be decent for $100. Not sure if I would pay that much for one made in China. Did you look at this CDI?

https://www.toolsdelivered.com/CDI-...uring-Wrenches-Micrometer-Adjustable-Wrenches

I might be concerned that someone bought and used the one you got for a one time use and then returned it. No way of knowing for sure if it was abused or not but still....

 

[lardy1]

I miss the days of walking into a local establishment and buying U.S.A. made, quality tools over the counter. But then, probably most of you do, too.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

If the wrench is made in Taiwan, then it would be decent for $100. Not sure if I would pay that much for one made in China. Did you look at this CDI?

https://www.toolsdelivered.com/CDI-...uring-Wrenches-Micrometer-Adjustable-Wrenches

I might be concerned that someone bought and used the one you got for a one time use and then returned it. No way of knowing for sure if it was abused or not but still....

I plan on buying this very wrench. Why pay $100 for import **** when you can get known quality and support for $140?

 

[mikester]

I asked the Apex rep about the company takeovers and COOs. It seems like a good amount of the tool companies that were in the US are still in operation but on a smaller scale. He told me some plants were closed and absorbed by other existing factorys. He also said a good portion of Apex tools are still made in the US. As far as the torque wrenches, he said the majority of the parts are manufactured here and sent to China for assembly. That doesnt sound legit to me considering the shipping costs but who knows if its true or not. Didnt the US sent chickens overseas to be processed and shipped back ?
I think its just the way of doing business. Gobble up all the smaller competition and cut back on the quality.

 

[kythri]

That doesn't matter. They co-mingle their inventory. So if you order a widget from Amazon it might be one that they sourced. Or it could just as easily be something sent in by a 3rd party seller for prime shipping that happens to be in a location closer to you.

This is completely incorrect. Amazon does NOT co-mingle their inventory with marketplace seller's inventory of like items.

If you buy from Amazon, you're getting something source/stocked by Amazon.

If you buy from a Marketplace seller, you're getting the item the Marketplace seller shipped to Amazon for distribution.

 

[m6z]

I miss the days of walking into a local establishment and buying U.S.A. made, quality tools over the counter. But then, probably most of you do, too.

I agree. I remember buying my first set of mechanics tools almost 20 years ago and I recall spending about $300 or $350 for a full set of SAE and MM Craftsman combination wrenches and a decent 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 socket kit. A substantial amount of money for a guy making $7 an hour.

Today you can buy those same tools for the same price or less, but they're made in China.

Punching $350 into the inflation calculator I get $521.97. I'd have no problem paying that If I needed to replace that set today.

 

[kythri]

Would one assume one of those additional listed vendors is also the general warehouse supplier, isn't that how Amazon does it when you buy thru Amazon as the seller. (They dont really buy the products they stock)

Where does this come from?

Yes, Amazon buys the product that they stock. I have yet to purchase something from Amazon that was drop-shipped from the distributor or manufacturer.

Every single item that I have bought from Amazon has been sent from one of Amazon's fulfillment centers.

Items that I have bought from a bunch of others, including Amazon Marketplace sellers, Tools Delivered, 4WheelParts, etc. I have received, at times, items that were drop-shipped, indicating that the seller is not stocking said item.

Not with Amazon. Amazon isn't building giant fulfillment centers all over the place just for show.

 

[davethorik]

I miss the days of walking into a local establishment and buying U.S.A. made, quality tools over the counter. But then, probably most of you do, too.

You can still do that at numerous places. They are called industrial supply houses. People on GJ seem to be scared of them, probably bc good quality industrial tools are a "ripoff" compared to HF.

 

[lardy1]

In these small rural midwestern towns you aren't going to find many.
it's mail order or drive 30 miles and pay more for it. Time marches on.

 

[Ign]

[/B]

Being a 20-150 ft-lb torque wrench, the lowest setting you can set is 20. It could be the calibrator who left the setting at 30, which is totally fine. You are overreacting over this.

The finger prints could be from the calibrator too.

I think your are suspecting: if it's been tampered with or used. I had Gearwrench ratchet set that came with dirt, prints, and scratches, and socket set missing a socket, both were factory sealed. The packaging of your torque wrench seems pretty normal, unfortunately.

If you are not happy, just return it and buy another one. It's a waste of time calling Gearwrench or Walmart and going into minute details, simply not worth it.

I wondered about this, too. The wrenches are unquestionably handled at the factory, and there will be tool and instrument lube all over a torque wrench one would think.

What's most amusing is OP expecting anything resembling customer service from Apex. Just return it. Waiting on a return call from Apex......waste of time.

I always check fb for 3rd party sellers on Amazon. A lot of 'em are like 12,000 ratings and 99% positive, so I don't worry about those. But I only check if the item is time sensitive -- if it's a case of fraud I know Amazon will deal with it, so the only question is if I can afford the hassle and delay of re-ordering.

Last night I wanted a tube of SylGlide as I'm getting low. Third party was cheapest. I'm in zero hurry so I went cheapest. If something goes awry I can handle a delay, no big deal

 

[kythri]

Most of the local industrial supply places have stopped carrying US-made tools, and are slinging import stuff.

Fastenal doesn't seem to carry anything US-made anymore.

Motion Industries has a local branch. You have to know what you're looking for before you go in, because there's no tools on display. You've got to go to the website, and hope that the Proto or US-made Williams you might be after is stocked in the local branch, or you're SOL.

Granger has shuttered all of their branches in this state, save a single one in Portland.

MacDonald Industrial in Albany, OR has giant Wright tool boards that were filled up with Urrea, but then they got rid of all that, and now it's filled with a mixture of imported Craftsman and some no-name stuff.

Must be nice to have local industrial supply houses that actually stock US-made tools.

 

[Ign]

You can still do that at numerous places. They are called industrial supply houses. People on GJ seem to be scared of them, probably bc good quality industrial tools are a "ripoff" compared to HF.

It varies but most industrial supply houses are selling to industry (read: a purchasing agent spending the company's money, not his).

Here in the gas patch they just need it done, NOW. A considerable mark-up on a tool is not a big deal if it completes the project.

OTOH GJ is primarily hobby consumers and small business owners (I'm both I guess) and every dollar matters.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I've found industrial supply house have range of discounts , if you talk to the counter person and give your employer's company name, by doing that I've gotten some pretty good discounts. That's how I bought my Proto. But now it would be Jet.

 

[mikester]

You can still do that at numerous places. They are called industrial supply houses. People on GJ seem to be scared of them, probably bc good quality industrial tools are a "ripoff" compared to HF.

I priced this out at MSC. They get almost $220. Theres a few other places listed on the Gearwrench website including Amazon that are selling them. Amazon gets $89. Big difference in price. Theres a few tool dealers also listed. Before I take it back Im making sure the tool dealers arent going to do the same thing and go with a 3rd party sale.

 

[hotrod1968]

I just skimmed some of the posts. In a nut shell problem the consumer created. Cheap is king and in the search for the cheapest price the local tool store has died and those left sell cheap as demanded by the public. The market only responds to what the customer wants...

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[ttpete]

Before I retired, I was a buyer of tools, metal, and other necessities for my department at work. I dealt with Grainger extensively, and also Snap-On. The Snap-On rep would stop by weekly, and he'd also sell to individuals for cash. He used the industrial price list, less 25%.

 

[Schurkey]

The market only responds to what the customer wants...

No.

The entire field of "Marketing/Advertising" has, as it's sole purpose, to drive the market where the business or industry WANTS the market to go. Billions of dollars are spent herding and harassing potential consumers so that the consumers make the decisions the advertiser wants them to make

Consumers buy junk because they're told by big-budget liars that the junk is just as good--or better--or a "better value" than the good-quality products the marketers are trying to bury with propaganda.

Or the "good stuff" has already been run out of business and the only choice left is to buy the high-profit, low-quality **** that industry is pushing.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

That doesn't matter. They co-mingle their inventory. So if you order a widget from Amazon it might be one that they sourced. Or it could just as easily be something sent in by a 3rd party seller for prime shipping that happens to be in a location closer to you.

I ordered an idle air motor for my Mustang recently from Amazon. I paid extra for a "motorcraft" brand part. The part showed up in a Motorcraft box which looked used. The part inside didn't have a mark anywhere on it as to who manufactured it. I decided to try it anyway. It didn't work. I sent it back and left 1 star feedback with my concerns....but really Amazon needs to police their inventory better.

I'm 95% certain it was a counterfeit part OR maybe a generic/defective part someone had returned to Amazon that was then resold to me.

Phil

 

[hotrod1968]

No.

The entire field of "Marketing/Advertising" has, as it's sole purpose, to drive the market where the business or industry WANTS the market to go. Billions of dollars are spent herding and harassing potential consumers so that the consumers make the decisions the advertiser wants them to make

Consumers buy junk because they're told by big-budget liars that the junk is just as good--or better--or a "better value" than the good-quality products the marketers are trying to bury with propaganda.

Or the "good stuff" has already been run out of business and the only choice left is to buy the high-profit, low-quality **** that industry is pushing.

Nope... there is advertising in the hope of getting the consumer to buy their product. But the markets are driven by customer demand. The customer wants cheap and the markets respond. The customer is not forced to buy anything. There is far more money in selling quality and manufacturing would perfer this in most cases. I know. I was in the business for decades. Cheap is king for the average consumer and the markets are giving them what they want... funny how no one is ever responsible for their decision in todays society.... the "evil" manufacturers made the consumer want/ buy cheap....

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[techieman33]

I ordered an idle air motor for my Mustang recently from Amazon. I paid extra for a "motorcraft" brand part. The part showed up in a Motorcraft box which looked used. The part inside didn't have a mark anywhere on it as to who manufactured it. I decided to try it anyway. It didn't work. I sent it back and left 1 star feedback with my concerns....but really Amazon needs to police their inventory better.

I'm 95% certain it was a counterfeit part OR maybe a generic/defective part someone had returned to Amazon that was then resold to me.

Phil

I had a similar issue recently. Ordered a new blower motor for my Mountaineer, granted it was a warehouse deal. But I ended up getting a motor that was completely wrong, though the box was marked correctly. Guessing someone returned a cheaper motor to try and save some money. It has to be a hard problem to combat since they have so much inventory turning over constantly. And the employees checking things in or back in often probably have no idea what an item should look like. Other than maybe it looks close to the image on the product page.

 

[hotrod1968]

I had a similar issue recently. Ordered a new blower motor for my Mountaineer, granted it was a warehouse deal. But I ended up getting a motor that was completely wrong, though the box was marked correctly. Guessing someone returned a cheaper motor to try and save some money. It has to be a hard problem to combat since they have so much inventory turning over constantly. And the employees checking things in or back in often probably have no idea what an item should look like. Other than maybe it looks close to the image on the product page.

And yet the common thread here... why was it purchased online? To save money. Why is the local owned store gone in many cases? Few want to pay for the knowledge, quality of the old school parts store. What you have left is the " mostly new " parts store selling cheap with low skill employees trying to compete with what the customer wants... the cheap price.

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