Tool For Machining Crank Journals In Place?

[supersteve]

Has anyone heard of this?
A fellow I used to work with (he has since retired) told me that back in the day, if you got a car in that needed a rod bearing but had scored the crank journal, you gave this one guy a jingle. He would come out and rig up a getup that would cut a fresh surface on the crank journal with the crank still in the engine. He would then give you an undersize bearing and be on his merry way.

Was this guy pulling my leg? It sounds almost believable like some of those mickey mouse fixes they try to sell once in a while, like the guy selling us universal CV boots that didn't require taking the axle out of the car or disassembling it, just had a cone you stretched the boot over.

eta: nevermind

 

[A_Pmech]

It's routinely done with railroad and stationary diesels, as well as steam turbines, but I don't know about smaller engines.

 

[rsanter]

Yes, it was common practice back in the day on car engines.
Problem is that is was not nearly as good as the factory finish and was more temperamental to the operator knowing what he was doing.
I have seen this stuff from an older guy that thought me a lot about cars and engines

Believe it or not, back in the day where there was a lot more room in an engine compartment, it was not that uncommon for someone to bore the cylinders with the block still in the car. Clean things up and put it all back together and you had a rebuilt engine.
I even got to see the guy do that to an older car with an inline 6 engine

Bob

 

[Jbullfrog]

I have an IntheBlok crankshaft grinder. It loops up over the crank in place and then moves back and forth. I would guess it's from the 50ies.

 

[slip knot]

I remember it being a belt sander setup. if the journal was too bad it had to be pulled but for minor cleanup the belt sander could get it done.

 

[supersteve]

it was not that uncommon for someone to bore the cylinders with the block still in the car.

Bob

Bore or just hone? I've done the pop-the-head-and-pan overhaul on newer stuff with just deglazing the walls, not boring.
And I know what you mean with all the room in old stuff, I've spent the last 30 years with my head under the hood of newer stuff and it amazes me how much room there is in the old stuff at car shows.

 

[Jagmandave]

Yes, back in the 60's I worked at an import shop, we had a TR3 coming thru town on his way to the coast and he had a rod knocking and no money.

The device as I remember it was a grinder with an extremely fine stone on it that hung down off the journal, the weight of the grinder motor providing the pressure for the cut. He removed the starter motor and put another motor in it's place that turned the crank as the grinder worked on the journal. It took about an hour and I don't know how far he took it down but we cleaned it all up, put it together and off the customer went.

We got a letter from him a year later saying that not only had the car made it, but that it was still running fine.

 

[BJ42LX]

My dad tells a story of my grandfather having this done on the family Buick. They were on vacation when the engine developed a rod knock. This would have been the mid to late '40's.

 

[vssjim]

old time fix and I would only recommend for purpose of history as you can never really clean out all the stuff on piece meal type of repair like using bolt on boring bars in a car. Those days have passed as today most engine last hundreds of thousands of miles where back when these tools were invented engines got rebuilt fairly often and burned oil all the time.

 

[Jbullfrog]

I'm starting to think my InTheBlok o's rare and valuable! See post above for pictures.

 

[supersteve]

I'm starting to think my InTheBlok o's rare and valuable! See post above for pictures.

I reckon that's probably the gizmo. Seems like it would be hard to maintain roundness.

 

[AA/FC]

Bore or just hone? I've done the pop-the-head-and-pan overhaul on newer stuff with just deglazing the walls, not boring.
And I know what you mean with all the room in old stuff, I've spent the last 30 years with my head under the hood of newer stuff and it amazes me how much room there is in the old stuff at car shows.

Bore. They have boring bars that can bolt directly to the engine block deck surface and bore each cylinder one at a time.

 

[ttpete]

Bore. They have boring bars that can bolt directly to the engine block deck surface and bore each cylinder one at a time.

I've done ring and valve jobs on side valve engines. We'd have the guy from the machine shop come and bore the cylinders, then hone and fit pistons. I did a straight eight Packard once, and to get at the valve springs, you took the right front wheel off and unscrewed a cover plate in the fender apron and worked sitting on the brake drum. Another one was a big 413 cubic inch flathead Dodge truck six that had dual carburetors.

 

[Professur]

 

[supersteve]

Merci, M. Professeur, I read the comments and this YT fellow heard the same thing I did, a specialist came out on a service call to perform this repair.

Would love to see this in action.
Just not on my car

 

[rsanter]

Bore or just hone? I've done the pop-the-head-and-pan overhaul on newer stuff with just deglazing the walls, not boring.
And I know what you mean with all the room in old stuff, I've spent the last 30 years with my head under the hood of newer stuff and it amazes me how much room there is in the old stuff at car shows.

Yes, actually bore the block
Look at the van Norman 777 boring bar. It can go right on the block deck and bore the block in or our of the car. They work very well.
You do the cut a couple of times with the last cut taking off almost nothing. Then you run a hand drill powered flat stone hone over the cylinder and put the piston and rings in

Bob

 

[2mJps]

I'm starting to think my InTheBlok o's rare and valuable! See post above for pictures.

I heared about this years ago and started searching around. They are not that rare. Back in there hay day the engines didnt turn alot of rpms so it would have worked out. A older friend told me about a bulldozer that spun a rod bearing far from any thing so they used the barbed wire fence to send 110 to the grinder and ground the crank. I have heared alot of old timers talk about a fix done on some thing back then. Like vssjim said those day are gone but not forgoten.

 

[Packard V8]

FWIW, I was in the big museum in Bangor, Maine and they had a kit on display in the old time machine shop set up in one corner. They were asking did anyone know what this was?

I recognized it as a hand-powered plane kit to cut down line shaft and crankshaft journals in place. The old low-RPM shafts weren't hardened and this kit was to shave off the high spots and enable a new babbit bearing to be scraped to fit.

jack vines

 

[T_Roze]

I heared about this years ago and started searching around. They are not that rare. Back in there hay day the engines didnt turn alot of rpms so it would have worked out. A older friend told me about a bulldozer that spun a rod bearing far from any thing so they used the barbed wire fence to send 110 to the grinder and ground the crank. I have heared alot of old timers talk about a fix done on some thing back then. Like vssjim said those day are gone but not forgoten.

To sit down and hear these old timers talk... Using a barbed wire fence to run 110v. Those were the days. Reminds me of my Grandpa. Could listen to him all day if he was still here.

 

[bmxdad]

When I was a machinist I used to make tooling using portable boring heads ... looks like a funny drill press, with a Cleco head. Most are operated by air, and can hold .0005 or better in roundness and taper ... within a few thousand on position. They usually clamped them down with a strong mag base.

Some of the old presses had pour in place Babbitt bearings, which if I remeber correctly, so did some of the old car engines from the thirties to early forties.

 

[stock z/28]

I still have an old crankshaft grinder that will grind a rod journal in the car.
As was said it uses a drive that is used in place of the starter, and it also has a roller drive system that a vehicle equipped with a standard trans. could use to rotate the tire. With the vehicle "in gear" the crank would turn.

I work around a lot of fairly large diesel engines and there are companies that will 'repair" a crankshaft in place with out the crank rotating. Very impressive guys to work around.

As far as the 110 on the barb wire, I am sure a proper GFI was used.


Thanks

Jeff

 

[ttpete]

When I was a machinist I used to make tooling using portable boring heads ... looks like a funny drill press, with a Cleco head. Most are operated by air, and can hold .0005 or better in roundness and taper ... within a few thousand on position. They usually clamped them down with a strong mag base.

Some of the old presses had pour in place Babbitt bearings, which if I remeber correctly, so did some of the old car engines from the thirties to early forties.

Chevrolet sixes used babbit rods through 1953. They were lubricated by squirt nozzles. Rebabbited rods were available on an exchange basis.

 

[Packard V8]

Chevrolet sixes used babbit rods through 1953. They were lubricated by squirt nozzles. Rebabbited rods were available on an exchange basis.

Point of clarification, the Stovebolt rods have a "dipper" protrusion on the cap with a hole going up through the babbit. There is a tray in the crankcase with troughs under each rod to hold oil. As each rod swings down, the dipper scoops through the trough and hopefully pushes a bit of oil up into between the bearing and the crankshaft.

jack vines

 

[ttpete]

Point of clarification, the Stovebolt rods have a "dipper" protrusion on the cap with a hole going up through the babbit. There is a tray in the crankcase with troughs under each rod to hold oil. As each rod swings down, the dipper scoops through the trough and hopefully pushes a bit of oil up into between the bearing and the crankshaft.

jack vines

Nope. They had oil jets that squirted oil at the dippers as they came around. There was a special service tool to check that the aim of the jet was correct.

http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.com/Pattern 12 Engine Page Two.htm

The GMC truck sixes had insert bearings and full pressure lubrication, as did Chevy car engines in 1964 and later.

 

[Grigg]

I have a cordless version

 

[rsanter]

I have a cordless version

Cordless huh?
I guess what's old is new again...

Bob

 

[Tronyadorable]

Yeah. My uncle had a rig back in the early-mid sixties.I cant remember the abrasive system.Too young then. He also made deck plates to use a Van Norman 777 on inline sixes with the block still in the truck(fleet work Ohio Hway dept. Kinda stupid stuff IMO.
Even doing heads is pushing it for me. If the heads are **** everything else is rapidly headed that way too.
I built many racing engines in the seventies and the assembly room was surgically clean. My buddy was fanatical about clean. Still is.

I'd like to find an old 777. That's a money making unit(or was) ?

 

[Thefinger]

I'm starting to think my InTheBlok o's rare and valuable! See post above for pictures.

Does it use sandpaper or a grinding wheel? If it grinds I would like to buy it if you are willing to sell it. If so how much? I have a 15 liter Cummins with a rod knock. If it works well I can save much time and money.

 

[Debcrow]

Somewhere in my sheds I have both setups. Boring in place and journal grinding setup. Never have used them, just thought they were neat and picked them up from old garages that had gone out of business. Also, the Ford babbitt pouring jigs and Babbitt scrapers.

 

[oldmachinenut]

Nope. They had oil jets that squirted oil at the dippers as they came around. There was a special service tool to check that the aim of the jet was correct.

http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.com/Pattern 12 Engine Page Two.htm

The GMC truck sixes had insert bearings and full pressure lubrication, as did Chevy car engines in 1964 and later.

The tool to adjust the oilers was hanging on the wall in the toolroom of the Chevy dealership I worked at in the 70’s.

 

[Jbullfrog]

Does it use sandpaper or a grinding wheel? If it grinds I would like to buy it if you are willing to sell it. If so how much? I have a 15 liter Cummins with a rod knock. If it works well I can save much time and money.

I think it uses emery cloth. I haven't looked at it recently.

 

[MBfreak]

Worked with heavy CAT equipment in iron ore stock piles area. Especially the D9s were prone to crank journals developing problems.
CAT had a special setup. Lift up the engine in place and fix it with 4 beams. Remove oil tray. Unbolt big end and push piston up.
Apply the band and its drive unit ( runs on 24 VDC)and polish while slowly turning the crank over. Measure, install correct bearings and button up. Typically 6 hours. If raining, we added two hours for a tent.
Ola