Tool Philosophy - Starting Out

[Codejack]

Given some recent comments, I thought that I would ask for a show of hands.

Let's talk in general:

For someone starting out as an automotive technician, such as chain-store lube and tire tech, and doing larger jobs/flipping cars on the side, building up to a master set, what is the best philosophy for acquiring the necessary tools?

I see 3 rough philosophies:

1. Buy top quality at all costs; in most people's cases, this means opening up a tool truck account. Pros: Your tools should never let you down, the service is unbeatable. Cons: You are paying a premium for a level of quality that you may not need in many of your tools, large debt if you change careers for whatever reason (accident, illness, etc).

2. Buy used and make do until you find top quality. Pros: Top quality tools for half price. Cons: What are you supposed to do in the meantime? Service may also be an issue, depending.

3. Buy mid-range tools for budget price and upgrade the pieces that fail and/or break. Pros: You will get the quality you need in the tools that matter for the least amount of money.

I will be skipping,

4. Buy the cheapest possible **** you can and hope that you don't ever have a tight nut or bolt to turn.

 

[old__man]

I heard of another philosophy. Buy all basic tools. The ones you use all the time, break, or get frustrated at get replaced with high quality ones. The other ones you just leave alone. E.g. Get a 10 piece generic pliers set. After a while replace the ones that are all worn and greasy from being used so much with high quality ones. The ones that still look new get left alone cause you never use those.

It's a way to save money. I've never done it myself though.

 

[Mowerdoctor]

Buy gearwrench and carlyle and don't look back

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[jumbojak]

Buy gearwrench and carlyle and don't look back

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For a lot of stuff, I think that's the way to do it.

 

[Mowerdoctor]

I broke a carlyle ratchet the other day and napa brought me a new one the next morning, no questions asked

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[JohnDeere1]

Man your obsessed with the topic of buying sockets and other tools. I buy the best that way I never have to buy anything again I have complete Snap on sets for chrome but also have back up sets of williams,wright,sk,Facom just in case I need 2 of the same size socket. All my sockets where bought used for next to nothing. I have bought alot off the snap on truck new and used all my pliers are snap on,mac,Klein and knipex. My wrenches are all snap on and Mac I'm not a tool snob I just like having all top tier tools there really is a difference I learned real quick here I the rust belt. Buying used is the best way for a home gamer or someone starting off to get the good stuff. Brands like Tekton just won't last the ratchets are **** I know I have some they are the same as kobalt and many others and are weak sauce. Sockets are not just sockets cheap ones break you just don't see guys using brands like this everyday I a pro setting. They sell Tekton literally 1 mile from my house I go there grocery shopping and I've held everything they sell and not impressed for the price. You don't have to wait to buy used thats what ebay is for and where I've bought most of my tools aside from flea markets.

 

[Fedwrench]

Your poll choices ****.

First off, an entry level tech just starting out should keep two things in mind. First, buy only the tools you'll actually use. You don't need a huge tool box to hold just basic tools. Secondly, do not go into debt if all possible. Yeah, $50 a week might not seem like much but, it adds up fast.

Tool truck brands offer truck to you service & pay while you use credit but, that 40% mark up may be more than an entry level tech with other life expenses can afford.

The Internet is your friend when tool shopping. The best tool might come off of a truck but, that truck might be a UPS or USPS truck.

 

[Mr_B]

When I started out it was a mix of 1, 2 & 3 (still is today really)
I had small weekly payment to tool trucks for few bits that made sense go quality straight away or on promo or dealer giving that good a deal to keep my payments rolling it hard turn down, went through local sales ads, pawn shops, yard sales etc grab some bits used. bought mid range stuff when needed or too good deal not take a punt .
Mid range stuff is easier these days as some of it got easy usable warranty, pitts pro being good example, bust extensions or ratchets and get them swapped for new same day is possible. With increase of quality and products in mid range things easier these days ...
I got japan and taiwan sockets that seen 25yrs of pro use and most of those will do another 25 no bother. It easy these days get good socketry at quite low prices and potentially with easy lifetime warranty . Would agree that tekton ratchets socketry and wrenches not a good option, way better on market at similar cost .

 

[Gmonkee]

A twist on what old man said.

Buy adequate tools and put them to work. If any showed issues it was replaced again and again until one stuck.

I went through two dozen ratchets and about ten pliers before the current one didn't need to be changed.
The average sockets were never changed out and the screwdriver pair was worn out six months to a year before a change. The last one has three years running.

 

[Infinia]

Beginning a career at chain store lube place? When you land there with a thunk, get up and ask your boss / peers what to get>> or buy the absolute basics in mid-grade and collect the good stuff as U get along. Over time the deals will come. Otherwise spend grandmas inheritance on a college education.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

I had to vote "other". Too much depends on the person and the work.

All I can offer for advice is my own experience. When I started wrenching full time, I began with a basic assortment of CM home-owners / DIY-ers assortment of chrome and a few specialty items it took to handle anything I had every run into to keep my own cars running and work on stuff for friends / family.
I needed to tool-up fast for lots of types of tools I didn't have but needed for the new work I was depending on to feed my wife / kids. I mail-ordered a bunch of **** from HF (this was back before they had stores anywhere but CA). I got by with it, but broke a lot of it. I also bought tools from an independent tool truck seller (essentially a rolling HF store, but with a some good stuff from names like S-K, Channellock, and Lisle). In the end, virtually all of the low end **** got replaced off the SO truck as the stuff broke / wore out. Mainly because the SO truck has been the only reliable tool truck we've had over the years.

I spent some time in the early years trying to find good used tools, but found it mostly and exercise in frustration as most sellers of quality used stuff want nearly new prices on anything but the real oddities no one wants. I felt I had better ways to spend my off time than shopping for work tools.

I think the only rules anyone should follow is to buy what you can afford and what YOU want, but keep in mind cheap **** tools will hurt you. They will slip / break at the worst time time and you end up with the scars to show for it.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Buy a decent mid line set (s&k, gearwrench ) and replace as needed

 

[alexb2000]

Buying top quality doesn't mean walking on the Snap-on truck and saying, "I'll take it all".

Every week there are specials on the Snap-On truck. Make a list of the must have tools and look for the specials. Ask the tool trucks if they have any trade-ins, that is a simple source of high quality used tools.

Read this board, only a specific few tools like sockets, ratchets, wrenches, etc. are worth it from the big guys. The rest is rebranded stuff you can buy new much cheaper on Amazon. Keep an eye on the deals thread, I have now picked up two different Knipex pliers brand new for $15 each recently.

I agree wait on the box and save your cash, that is a sucker buy. You can buy used Snap-on boxes all day on Craigslist for 30% of new and they hold tools just as well as a new one without the payments.

Basically, this is a major investment, don't be stupid and don't get in too big a rush, and mostly do your homework.

 

[Snakebyt]

buy what you need, or what you will be using on a daily basis, home depot, lowes, parts stores, harbor freight are a good place to start. No need to buy expensive set with tools you wont be using. Buy more as you go

 

[shawndp]

Buy gearwrench and carlyle and don't look back

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If I lived in America I would absolutely do this! Doing brakes and oil changes with those tools doesn't put you at any disadvantage over doing it with Matco tools. This strategy worked for the first 10 years of my career...

 

[Flinter987]

I wish I could vote. I've utilized all three philosophies depending on the tool in question. I've regretted going with #3 a few times when I went too cheap and haven't utilized #1 a whole lot if that helps.

 

[WittHay]

Depends on your income and end goal. If the goal is to have a massive Snap-on tool collection, buy the least amount of the cheapest tools that will get the present job done and continually add used and new Snap-on to the collection.

If you just want tools to do your job as a beginning auto tech. Buy the midrange GearWrench and Carlyle, and spend your income on other things

 

[Hiball]

It's 2017.. This is the easiest mechanics have had it in along time. The abundance of tools brands that are in the marketplace is extraordinary and cheap to boot. I say cheap because when I started buying tools, the step above craftsman was steep.. You either paid out the nose for New or took your chances with imports that wherent very good. IMO choose a brand that enjoy using and get to wrenching.

 

[ez-duzit]

Your poll is flawed with too few and too poor choices.

How about watching for special promotions on brand new top brands and buying used so you can afford the good stuff?

 

[Codejack]

Depends on your income and end goal.

Lube tech and car flipper income; master set of "good enough" tools end goal.

 

[Codejack]

Your poll is flawed with too few and too poor choices.

How about watching for special promotions on brand new top brands and buying used so you can afford the good stuff?

That would be choice #2.

Again, what do I do in the meantime? And what do you define as, "The good stuff?"

 

[R_einan]

My vote goes to buy quality midrange and upgrade when things fail or you find something you feel is worth spending money on. I have a lot of craftsman that I've had since I was in school. After finishing school and looking for a start in the industry, as a younger man recently married with a house to maintain. I realized I was better off staying at the job I was in then starting over. I have never wrenched for our bread, even though I went to school for it. I still wrench, we have 2 classics and a Harley that I maintain and modify. I buy the best quality midrange I can afford for the job, and if it breaks from frequent use, I buy a better one to replace it. I have some snap on in my box (ratchets, mid length 3/8, hex and torx bits) and some Mac tools as well (scrapers, pliers, specialty tools). I honestly think I could have been happy with more SK, especially since I acquired their new ratchet on Epstiens day. So, long story short, but what you can afford without going into debt and upgrade what you use with better stuff as needed.

 

[Codejack]

Well, the options that include buying midrange for at least some tools have about 60% support at this point (36 votes).

 

[JimNC]

Avoid debt!

I "borrowed" tools from family when I had nothing. Happy to use their backup stuff, usually old Craftsman grade. I have never wrenched for a living, so the benefit of truck delivery was never a bonus.

BTW, I'm in the process of returning some used chrome sockets that I bought, they were described as mint, but have seen significant time on an impact gun. Seller is being difficult. Point is only that it takes time to buy used.

Last point, and it ties in with my first point, go in with the attitude that you want to be the best technician/mechanic, NOT the guy with the most/best tools.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Again, what do I do in the meantime?

You already have a set because you've been flipping cars and equipment...

 

[Codejack]

Man your obsessed with the topic of buying sockets and other tools.

I'm a cheapskate asking for advice on the tool set I'm trying to put together and getting passive-aggressive attacks from people who are offended by my choices.

I'm just trying to figure out if it is the common attitude, or if some people just have some kind of fixation on price or country of origin of their tools, as if just by virtue of something being from a certain country or not costing a certain amount of money automatically makes it somehow inappropriate for professional use.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Your poll is flawed with too few and too poor choices.

Well, the options that include buying midrange for at least some tools have about 60% support at this point (36 votes).

Because it is included in 50% of the choices. That's why others have point out that the poll is flawed. You said you're a physicist so use a scientific approach and look at data.

I voted for buy a mix of mid and top tier tools. I'm from a buy once or cry once mentality.

 

[Codejack]

You already have a set because you've been flipping cars and equipment...

My Williams/Kobalt set with a dozen missing/broken pieces that I can't replace? My $1 screwdrivers with toothmarks all over the handles from visegrips? My Harbor Freight wrenches that I have had for a month and are already showing wear, or worse, the remnants of my Craftsman garbage?

I'm using flathead screwdrivers as pry bars, scrapers and chisels; I'm using a framing hammer and a multimeter set up for component-level troubleshooting; my hex keys are the cheap folding set that you have to tighten the nut after every use.

When are you going to understand that everything on both lists, the shop set and the portable set, was either an upgrade or something that I didn't have, at all, and if it lasts 6 months and does the job, it will have paid for itself?

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Let me put this into context for you; this is what I started out using:

 

[Hiball]

I'm a cheapskate asking for advice on the tool set I'm trying to put together and getting passive-aggressive attacks from people who are offended by my choices.

I'm just trying to figure out if it is the common attitude, or if some people just have some kind of fixation on price or country of origin of their tools, as if just by virtue of something being from a certain country or not costing a certain amount of money automatically makes it somehow inappropriate for professional use.

I'm beginning to think you are looking for arguments (based off the above response) why would you care why other members are for buying brand X versus Y, Of course some consumers will choose based of COO or Price alone. It's about what is important to you that counts... If you think you can continue to start threads about Brand X versus y or $$ versus $$$$$ and get unbiased responses, you should use the search feature.

 

[Codejack]

Because it is included in 50% of the choices. That's why others have point out that the poll is flawed. You said you're a physicist so use a scientific approach and look at data.

OK; of the first 3 choices, the pure ones, choice 3 has over 60% of the votes. That is a confirmation, although none of this is really "scientific;" it's an opinion poll!

I voted for buy a mix of mid and top tier tools. I'm from a buy once or cry once mentality.

I'll tell you what, D; let's say that we just got off on the wrong foot and start over.

I agree that the best course of action is to only buy tools of good enough quality to do the job; there just seems to be a lot of disagreement as to exactly which tools need to be of what quality and which brands qualify for which tier. Doing so without spending more money than I have to is what makes it difficult, and that's why I'm here asking questions

You seem to be saying that at least some mid range tools are acceptable; would you list a few, either that are acceptable in mid range, or that really need to be top end, and which brands qualify?

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To clarify my own position, illustrated in my "shop tools" thread, I believe that I can assemble a core set of tools of mid-range quality, upgrade the items that fail, break or wear out, and wind up spending less than by buying a full set of top end tools, many of which will be of significantly better quality than I require.

This would also allow me to accomplish more tasks sooner than if I have to save up for "good" tools, which will let me make more money, which means that I can buy the better tools, probably sooner.

 

[ez-duzit]

My Williams/Kobalt set with a dozen missing/broken pieces that I can't replace? My $1 screwdrivers with toothmarks all over the handles from visegrips? My Harbor Freight wrenches that I have had for a month and are already showing wear, or worse, the remnants of my Craftsman garbage?

I'm using flathead screwdrivers as pry bars, scrapers and chisels; I'm using a framing hammer and a multimeter set up for component-level troubleshooting; my hex keys are the cheap folding set that you have to tighten the nut after every use...

Really unimpressed with your tool knowhow.

 

[Codejack]

Of course some consumers will choose based of COO or Price alone.

But by choosing by highest price alone? That is what is baffling to me.

 

[Codejack]

Really unimpressed with your tool knowhow.

Oh, boy, that's going to start a whole 'nother thread...

I won't even go into the stuff that I use broom handles and mechanic's wire for

 

[Hiball]

But by choosing by highest price alone? That is what is baffling to me.

Why? Is it your money? Your tools don't need you to stick up for them, they are just simply metal/plastic and rubber, so obviously this is a personal issue. My reccomendation, don't have a inferiority complex regarding the tools in your arsenal. Like I said earlier, there are tons of good brands out there.

 

[Codejack]

Why? Is it your money? Your tools don't need you to stick up for them, they are just simply metal/plastic and rubber, so obviously this is a personal issue. My reccomendation, don't have a inferiority complex regarding the tools in your arsenal. Like I said earlier, there are tons of good brands out there.

I don't care about brand, I just want "good enough" tools for as cheap as I can possibly get them

 

[Youngguns]

I voted 2 and 3, as it best describes my opinion I think. Buy what you need of decent quality, upgrade what breaks, and in your off time, enjoy the flea markets and yard sales looking for quality used tools.

 

[bczygan]

Other:

Buy what has the best price/performance ratio.

A lot of less expensive tools are adequate quality.

HF is a good example.

Tool truck is a last resort.

Never use credit.

Bill

 

[Infinia]

.... tools for as cheap as I can possibly get them

And confirmation from the GJ members that your tool choices are indeed the correct ones.
This is your 3rd or 4th thread related to your new tools, the 1st being titled "needs reassurance". So how much reassurance will you be needing from here on out? Brand isn't important you say BUT from what I can see the important thing in your tools is that they be colored black.

 

[Yarpo]

I don't care about brand, I just want "good enough" tools for as cheap as I can possibly get them

"Good enough" is going to be subjective, based on peoples opinions and personal experience with the tools so it will always be biased. You can try to look at the issue objectively which leads to your categories but it still falls apart I think because good enough is different for everyone. Good enough in a professional environment?

Good enough for my boss as I stated in your other thread was Craftsman USA tools. We're out rebuilding pumps and pump transmissions, replacing or repairing valves, doing light motor work all on large firetrucks. Guess what, the guy doesn't own an impact socket. I've seen him use his craftsman chrome sockets on his IR air gun a 1000 times taking off driveshafts, pump body bolts and so fourth, no issues! Those sockets are making him money and cost very little.

Many techs are also using channel lock pliers, and the overall consensus is they're good, but you hated them

Good enough is going to depend on how hard they work you and your tools. Changing oil and rotating tires you could probably own a single Aircat Air Impact and a standard 3/8th socket set from Tekton or HF, but "good enough" for a tech to use day in and day out at Mercedes is probably different. I'd spring for at least Gearwrench / Carlyle for my sockets/ratchets, but again I've had great luck with those tools, so that opinion and recommendation have bias. You also don't need ALL these tools immediately so narrow it down based on some recommendations and buy a set. If you hate them, don't waste your money completing your tool list from them and look elsewhere. The choice ultimately rests on you

 

[d.mcfarland]

Many techs are also using channel lock pliers, and the overall consensus is they're good, but you hated them

I believe the feel of the handles was the main complaint. Oh and they were rusty or something.