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Tool Philosophy - Starting Out

Tool Philosophy


  • Total voters
    185

JazzBlueRT

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Craftsman is the only brand of tool that has never failed to fail me. Wrenches, sockets, pliers, tool boxes, leaf blowers, weed trimmers, pressure washers... my stupid pressure washer destroyed the frame under normal operation. It was thin sheet metal and the vibration of the motor just tore it apart.

Grandad had 3 circular saws on a shelf in the shop; a Craftsman, a Skilsaw, and a Black and Decker. The Craftsman is the only one that doesn't work, and it's still in the original box, barely used. The Skilsaw looks like it was used to fight off an army of 2x4s sent to kill his family.

I don't even know where this story ends; family kept buying Cman long after I quit, and then ask me to fix stuff, or worse, buy it for me as gifts. I could literally fill up pages with stories about Cman ****, and the only good story I have is my 1982 Craftsman lawnmower that I still use.

Hundreds of millions of people have bought and used hundreds of billions dollars worth of Craftsman tools without issue over the years. Craftsman is consistently recognized as the most trusted brand in tools. Tens of millions of people use Craftsman tools daily to make a good honest living.

Yet somehow everything you buy that is Craftsman breaks! It is simply not believable. Either you are misusing and not taking care of your tools or you are buying factory seconds or knockoffs from somewhere.

The solution to your problem is right in front of your face and it costs $189 when on sale.
 
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65k10

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THANK YOU!!

That is the kind of reply I have been looking for; don't just tell me the stuff I am looking at is ****, give me some realistic suggestions.

Those sockets and wrenches are still going to be out of reach for a little while, but those screwdrivers, especially, had somehow slipped through my searches.

Please thank Jrboulder. All I did was follow his recommendations to show what he said is possible. Over the past year I have been reading this board I have learned a lot that has helped me purchase quality tools at a price I can manage. Proto tools bought off Zoro during their sales has been a big part of that. Watch the deal threads and you woud be surprised at what can be had.
 
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Codejack

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Yet somehow everything you buy that is Craftsman breaks!

That's not true; my 1982 Craftsman lawnmower is still going strong!

The solution to your problem is right in front of your face and it costs $189 when on sale.

81Kmv4xU%2BXL._SL1500_.jpg


$181, not on sale, and there aren't a dozen threads from different people talking about how **** they are.

It's not just me....
 
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Codejack

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Please thank Jrboulder. All I did was follow his recommendations to show what he said is possible. Over the past year I have been reading this board I have learned a lot that has helped me purchase quality tools at a price I can manage. Proto tools bought off Zoro during their sales has been a big part of that. Watch the deal threads and you woud be surprised at what can be had.

Absolutely; still, you actually came up with some specific suggestions, which is helpful :)
 

crewchief888

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It's 2017.. This is the easiest mechanics have had it in along time. The abundance of tools brands that are in the marketplace is extraordinary and cheap to boot. I say cheap because when I started buying tools, the step above craftsman was steep.. You either paid out the nose for New or took your chances with imports that wherent very good. IMO choose a brand that enjoy using and get to wrenching.


i agree... it's sooooo easy now-a-days...

many, many mid level choices out there, and the "cheap" stuff isnt really **** anymore...
waaaayyyy more choices in who to buy from,
"back in the day"
sears for CM
local auto parts stores sold SK
traveling tool shows pretty much had anything you wanted, as long as it was cheap...

i started with a mix of old SK that belonged to my dad, and a few assorted CM tools...
i decided after 3 years in the "business" i was gonna keep wrenching until i wasnt able to wrench anymore..( ive been wrenching at const eq dealers for over 30 years)
work tools and boxes got upgraded to truck brands, my old tools got moved home as a 2nd set. storage needs changed as well, tools and boxes got shuffled around....
all the boxes in the garage are SO now, as well as another roller cab, a vintage PLVMB top sits on it in the basement, and my "portable" box is a vintage 3 drawer CM.
the last box i bought was in '99, a CM top box thats had a rough life in my service truck, and is about ready for the scrap pile.
some would say i pissed away money buying brand new SO boxes, but they'll outlast me, and probably outlast the next owner.....

:beer:
 

zendriver

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Other:

Just buy reasonably priced, reasonable quality tools - keep them , use them and invest the difference, saved from not buying "the best", to have money in your old age, something that we probably won't have a problem, of have in "too much" of.

Obviously, if one want to be a professional wrench, they will have to play the game, with endless purchases of truck tools.
 

zendriver

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Why would you leave IT? With 10 years experience, that is an easy $60-70k per year doing busy work almost anywhere in the country.

Easy?

Google "information technology professional burn out rate"

I was in for 15 years, starting back in the Glory days, when the "Computer guy" was a respected job. When I left, those that cleaned the toilets were more revered and some paid about the same.

FWIW, one can make more money than that, driving a truck. I do.
 
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Codejack

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Easy?

Google "information technology professional burn out rate"

I was in for 15 years, starting back in the Glory days, when the "Computer guy" was a respected job. When I left, those that cleaned the toilets were more revered and some paid about the same.

FWIW, one can make more money than that, driving a truck. I do.

Yea, I got in in the late 90s, when the respect was dropping, fast.

By 2006, I was a road warrior putting in 100+ hours per week for $39k, even with M$ and Cisco certs. I ballooned up to almost 300 lb, was smoking 2 packs a day and drinking in the morning.
 

Yarpo

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"reconditioned"

So, you voted option #2?

You can buy the Dewalt kit all the time for that price new in home Depot or various online retailers.

I check Slickdeals everyday and buy tons of stuff on sale, be it tools or clothes, etc. Good place to save you money!

Did you buy an impact yet? I know you had your eyes on some
 

kkroger

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Apr 21, 2013
Messages
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When I was starting out in the 80s I had Wright (my dad and mom bought me a Wright socket set for my birthday when I was 16) My dad has SK, Wright, Proto, Snap-On, among others, I had Craftsman, Wright, and a few other names. I witnessed more damage done with cheap tools than high quality ones, Cheaper names were Buffalo, Gedore, Allied, among others, mostly originating in India, China, Taiwan... BUT I witnessed CRAFTSMAN tools ruining fasteners, and other issues, (breaking) I never have had a Snap-On wrench or a Wright Wrench, or SK, BREAK, I've had Craftsman break.. that said my policy is to always buy the BEST you can possibly AFFORD, If that is Craftsman so be it, if that is Gear Wrench so be it, SK, Wright, Snap-On what have you, if you can afford it buy it. but don't settle for ****. I have very FEW hand tools from Harbor Freight... a set of Stubby Combo wrenches I bought in a moment of weakness when I saw them by the cashier stand... and some Wobble impacts I bought on a Sunday when no place with anything of quality locally was open.
 
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Codejack

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You can buy the Dewalt kit all the time for that price new in home Depot or various online retailers.

I check Slickdeals everyday and buy tons of stuff on sale, be it tools or clothes, etc. Good place to save you money!

Did you buy an impact yet? I know you had your eyes on some

No, I've been using the corded unit and the BFBB (big f'in breaker bar) on the tough stuff, but mostly been doing smaller stuff recently; electrical, timing, I've got a radiator to replace, another timing belt job (Honda! :willy_nil), then I can start the upholstery on the Miata. Oh, and more electrical. And more electrical after that; I actually have like 4 car electrical jobs lined up before I can even start on the Miata body and paint work.

Then I'm thinking about setting up for transmission work, because no one else around here wants to touch it; they are trashing cars that have nothing wrong with them but bad synchros or blown automatics. I just don't have the lift to do much other than small FWD and tall pickup trannys; I couldn't get my Mom's old BMW high enough off the ground, for example (the weird f'ing bolts and 300lb transmission were obstacles, as well).

The cordless impact is one of those things that I'm actually looking at spending more on:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MXGOGJ7/?tag=atomicindus08-20

DeWalt 3/8" Brushless kit, $265 at Amazon;I'll shop around, but that seems reasonable to me. I have some ancient DeWalt stuff that has been used hard and is still going strong.
 

alexb2000

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Yea, I got in in the late 90s, when the respect was dropping, fast.

By 2006, I was a road warrior putting in 100+ hours per week for $39k, even with M$ and Cisco certs. I ballooned up to almost 300 lb, was smoking 2 packs a day and drinking in the morning.

If you have a CCIE and you were working for $39K in 2006 you were at the very bottom of the bell curve and you were traveling? The average reported base salary in a 2008 survey was $93K. Seems like you could have easily done better.
 

pdxgearhead

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Um... {looks at the notes he jotted down from the phone interview this morning}, OK.

They're paying stockers $11-12/hour!

So what kind of money is Walmart offering you as an entry level lube tech? You said it was close to $40K, are you talking like $17-18/hr? I've been looking for a PT job for a bit of extra cash and to occupy my time. I'd change oil for $18/hr.

Also, I'm not a pro, but I voted for #3 on your poll.
 
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Codejack

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If you have a CCIE and you were working for $39K in 2006 you were at the very bottom of the bell curve and you were traveling? The average reported base salary in a 2008 survey was $93K. Seems like you could have easily done better.

CCIE? Ha! CCNA, I had a hard enough time getting the first test done. Atlanta was the closest testing location, and constantly having problems; I had to go to Cincinnati to get my MCSE, and certainly didn't have time to study while traveling.

Even then, I could have made $85k... in San Francisco.

The plan is to work my way up to the $60k+ range doing this locally, where the cost of living is low. If I can put $10k per year back for 25 years, I might actually be able to retire.
 
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Codejack

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I have very FEW hand tools from Harbor Freight... a set of Stubby Combo wrenches I bought in a moment of weakness when I saw them by the cashier stand... and some Wobble impacts I bought on a Sunday when no place with anything of quality locally was open.

Here's what I bought from HF today:

4b03c97b393bfdbc3f49cf1a2b3b8383.jpg


I had a leaking hose that I needed to get off:

393f250ea56c12721ce02a2f8573e6cd.jpg


(and that was the easy side to get to; I only had to remove the intake manifold bracket, oil filter and oil pressure sending unit).

They are pretty tight:

eac53d797e6c03bd36c938edd0a7ee03.jpg


3fbe62e73ffbb52c4c026a47c37f5050.jpg


And the joints were greased:

89386cd634224ec3cbadd812e5d5d3fa.jpg


$4 each, and they did the job when my Craftsman pliers gave up and twisted rather than squeeze the hose clamp (to be fair, some a-hole had two clamps bound up together on them).

Some of the other pliers there looked like pot metal; par for the course, I suppose.
 
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Codejack

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So what kind of money is Walmart offering you as an entry level lube tech? You said it was close to $40K, are you talking like $17-18/hr? I've been looking for a PT job for a bit of extra cash and to occupy my time. I'd change oil for $18/hr.

I'm not starting that high, but getting there is not out of the question, and the two managers make at least that.

Bear in mind: We're a small metro area with a VW plant and its associated suppliers, and a ton of call centers (the Southern accent is soothing over the phone). My ex-wife makes $15/hour as unskilled labor in a factory. T-Mobile pays $13/hour to answer the phone and upsell people on their cell plans. You can't get anything but meth-heads and idiots for $10/hour.

If you are an experienced welder, I know places hiring for $20+/hour. Actually, if you're willing to live in the boonies, I know a place paying $18/hour for unskilled labor making plastic trim pieces for cars; just using a forming machine and cutting the edges. It's out in a really sketchy area, though; banjos...


Also, I'm not a pro, but I voted for #3 on your poll.

That's the path I was following, but I was getting some pretty serious flack about it. The poll data is... reassuring :)
 

JazzBlueRT

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In Chattanooga, TN, it got me $35k/year, and never went up. I can make $65k in Atlanta, but with cost of living, that's no better. My cousin makes $100k in San Francisco, but has to live in a closet.

Worse, I can't take my kids with me, and their mothers are... special.

Trust me, I would have moved long ago if that were an option.

$65k is good money in Atlanta, especially if you are willing to commute. A good admin or programmer would move up very quickly.
 

JazzBlueRT

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Easy?

Google "information technology professional burn out rate"

I was in for 15 years, starting back in the Glory days, when the "Computer guy" was a respected job. When I left, those that cleaned the toilets were more revered and some paid about the same.

FWIW, one can make more money than that, driving a truck. I do.

I am an IT professional with 20 years as a network admin, programmer and now IT manager and have loved every minute of it. Maybe I am just lucky.
 

JazzBlueRT

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CCIE? Ha! CCNA, I had a hard enough time getting the first test done. Atlanta was the closest testing location, and constantly having problems; I had to go to Cincinnati to get my MCSE, and certainly didn't have time to study while traveling.

Even then, I could have made $85k... in San Francisco.

The plan is to work my way up to the $60k+ range doing this locally, where the cost of living is low. If I can put $10k per year back for 25 years, I might actually be able to retire.

I do hope your plans work out. It is hard choice to make between being near your kids and seeking better fortunes. It is sad that nowadays too many men will pack up and leave their kids for more money. Much respect for you choosing to be near your kids.
 
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Codejack

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$65k is good money in Atlanta, especially if you are willing to commute. A good admin or programmer would move up very quickly.

I worked in ATL for a while, but had to live in Alpharetta; the commute was insane.

I'm 10 years out of IT, in any case, with no desire to return.
 
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Codejack

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I do hope your plans work out. It is hard choice to make between being near your kids and seeking better fortunes. It is sad that nowadays too many men will pack up and leave their kids for more money. Much respect for you choosing to be near your kids.

Oldest son is trying to choose between the Marines and the Navy; middle daughter is first chair flute and has her own art youtube channel; youngest son is a rock hound, serious science geek.

I screwed up a lot, but I did that right :)
 

elidas

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Started wrenching 43 years ago with a Craftsmen set. I moved up to SKs because they were part of a Purolator incentive program and "free". I now have mostly Snap on and Mac stuff. Very little was bought new. I believe that the best tools used are better than **** new. Unfortunately if you follow the vintage tool forum you'll see that I've failed to stop buying used tools.
 

Cato

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The biggest mistake I see is new mechanics mortgaging their future buying ridiculously expensive tools. Are you trying to build a beautiful collection of high dollar tools?

Or, are you trying to make a living?

Even Harbor Freight tools are fully adequate. And, even Snap On tools fail.
 

jd_1138

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The biggest mistake I see is new mechanics mortgaging their future buying ridiculously expensive tools. Are you trying to build a beautiful collection of high dollar tools?

Or, are you trying to make a living?

Even Harbor Freight tools are fully adequate. And, even Snap On tools fail.

And there are craptons of brands in between those 2 extremes.
 

JazzBlueRT

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Oldest son is trying to choose between the Marines and the Navy; middle daughter is first chair flute and has her own art youtube channel; youngest son is a rock hound, serious science geek.

I screwed up a lot, but I did that right :)

The most important job is being a good dad.
 

Jp267

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I just spotted the 150 piece Bostitch wrench socket tool set at my local Walmart for $25 down from $199 originally. I bought one for $45 to keep in my truck. Not the best quality in the world, but it's a really cheap way to aquire a lot of decent quality sockets wrenches etc.

Check your local Walmart. Of course they're hit and miss so YMMV.

Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk
 

Mr_B

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Here's what I bought from HF today:

4b03c97b393bfdbc3f49cf1a2b3b8383.jpg


I had a leaking hose that I needed to get off:

393f250ea56c12721ce02a2f8573e6cd.jpg


(and that was the easy side to get to; I only had to remove the intake manifold bracket, oil filter and oil pressure sending unit).

They are pretty tight:

eac53d797e6c03bd36c938edd0a7ee03.jpg


3fbe62e73ffbb52c4c026a47c37f5050.jpg


And the joints were greased:

89386cd634224ec3cbadd812e5d5d3fa.jpg


$4 each, and they did the job when my Craftsman pliers gave up and twisted rather than squeeze the hose clamp (to be fair, some a-hole had two clamps bound up together on them).

Some of the other pliers there looked like pot metal; par for the course, I suppose.

I got a 7pc 11" set few years back off eBay for 30bucks, more precise form/alignment and more polished finish than many cheap pliers (good listing pics and feedback), double dipped handles yellow with slight textured black second coat.
4 angled pliers and 3 hose pliers .
Gets used daily and nice to use, little more flex than better brand and jaws teeth little softer but for usage I give them they more than needed .
I went cheaper route on these as new my usage not demanding and pretty sure bit of effort researching I could find pretty decent unbranded set.
Mac truck had given me best price of 160bucks for similar (6pc), was usa made though but 130bucks saved allows for self warranty on cheaper set and more funds for more important shop equipment (had scanner updates/subscriptions and bearing tools hitting me for almost 1,000bucks so tool costing was sensitive) .
A good tool kit will be a mix of everything, new tool truck, inherited, friends hand down, yard sale, eBay, Amazon, Napa etc, HF etc .
The only trick is picking what best buy from these sources for your usage and desired budget .
 
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Codejack

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The biggest mistake I see is new mechanics mortgaging their future buying ridiculously expensive tools. Are you trying to build a beautiful collection of high dollar tools?

Or, are you trying to make a living?

Even Harbor Freight tools are fully adequate. And, even Snap On tools fail.

I'm trying to make a living, I've just got 3 or 4 people posting in every thread that I am wasting my money by not buying top quality tools for everything.

I'm buying lots of stuff from HF; some of it isn't so hot, but some of it is amazing! Ratchets...
 

fatfillup

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I voted for 2 and 3 but I have done all three.

I say buy used when you can because (1) I have a used tool store:) (2) you can save a lot of money if you are patient. A fair amount of what I sell is new or close to it.

Buying midrange and upgrading as needed will allow you to get the best for the things you use all the time.

If you are a pro, it also makes sense to buy some off the truck.
 
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Codejack

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I spent a week in Alpharetta, nice town.

Oh, ATL in general isn't bad for a big city, other than the traffic, and especially in the South. Higher crime than most cities elsewhere in the country, but pretty low for Dixie.

The most important job is being a good dad.

That is my philosophy, and I have sacrificed a lot in the process.

Kids need dads, though, absolutely; I think that a lot of the problems in our society stem from that lack.
 
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Codejack

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I got a 7pc 11" set few years back off eBay for 30bucks, more precise form/alignment and more polished finish than many cheap pliers (good listing pics and feedback), double dipped handles yellow with slight textured black second coat.
4 angled pliers and 3 hose pliers .
Gets used daily and nice to use, little more flex than better brand and jaws teeth little softer but for usage I give them they more than needed .
I went cheaper route on these as new my usage not demanding and pretty sure bit of effort researching I could find pretty decent unbranded set.
Mac truck had given me best price of 160bucks for similar (6pc), was usa made though but 130bucks saved allows for self warranty on cheaper set and more funds for more important shop equipment (had scanner updates/subscriptions and bearing tools hitting me for almost 1,000bucks so tool costing was sensitive) .
A good tool kit will be a mix of everything, new tool truck, inherited, friends hand down, yard sale, eBay, Amazon, Napa etc, HF etc .
The only trick is picking what best buy from these sources for your usage and desired budget .

See, this is my thinking:

Those angle pliers did just fine. I want some better cutters, and I'm not sure about their groove- and slip-joint pliers (the ones I saw were either loose or stiff), but for the kind of specialized pliers that I'm going to need 6 different varieties of, as you point out....

That's just throwing money away.

I'll spend the cash on stuff that needs to be high quality, and upgrade this stuff as it fails.
 
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Codejack

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I voted for 2 and 3 but I have done all three.

I say buy used when you can because (1) I have a used tool store:) (2) you can save a lot of money if you are patient. A fair amount of what I sell is new or close to it.

Buying midrange and upgrading as needed will allow you to get the best for the things you use all the time.

If you are a pro, it also makes sense to buy some off the truck.

I bought a used Snap On ratchet, which is very nice, but I'm not sure how much nicer than the HF ratchets that I bought; they have 90% as many teeth, are ~90% as strong (if youtube torture tests are to be believed), at 20% the price. Even used, the SO ratchet was $50, and that was cheap.

I'm sure that I will wind up buying some stuff off of trucks, but I need to fill out a functional set, first.
 

bcradio

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I'm trying to make a living, I've just got 3 or 4 people posting in every thread that I am wasting my money by not buying top quality tools for everything.

I'm buying lots of stuff from HF; some of it isn't so hot, but some of it is amazing! Ratchets...

THIS is why we are all disagreeing with you on your blanket Craftsman stance.

You can't see your own problem with your viewpoint.

As with every brand under the sun, some stuff is good and some stuff isn't. If YOU don't know which items from a certain brand are good, then that is YOUR problem. You can't blame an entire brand for your poor choice in tools from them. Hopefully you are learning better choices though now.
 

WhiskeyRanger

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I buy whatever I can get the best deal on that will do the job in an acceptable fashion. Craftsman sockets have worked for me for 25 years, some of them worked for my dad for 20 years prior to that. I still have the Craftsman ratchets, but have Armstrong, proto, and snap on that I like better. I have HF impacts and specialty sockets that have been great for years now and cost a fraction what anything else was going for. At work I have Klein drivers, at home Wiha. I've used a $100 Kobalt tool set for 8 years both as my primary tools and as a secondary portable set. I've had jobs where I tossed my Snap On ratchet and used the Kobalt because it worked better.

I don't get hung up on brands or price. I just go with what works. Some of that is trial and error, some of it is the advice of others that I trust, some is just taking a look at the stuff and weeding out what obviously is junk.
 
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Codejack

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THIS is why we are all disagreeing with you on your blanket Craftsman stance.

You can't see your own problem with your viewpoint.

As with every brand under the sun, some stuff is good and some stuff isn't. If YOU don't know which items from a certain brand are good, then that is YOUR problem. You can't blame an entire brand for your poor choice in tools from them. Hopefully you are learning better choices though now.

Yea, the problem is that 90% of the stuff I ever bought from Craftsman broke, often without ever accomplishing a single job.

Sockets and wrenches I have gone over.

Their pliers and visegrips are pathetic; the visegrips were defeated by a small spring hose clamp.

Leaf blower - worked for a single season, then the piston rings failed.

Pressure washer - Honda motor, which is good, but the frame is already coming apart after about a dozen uses, mostly for carport floors and washing cars. All they had to do was weld some steel pipes together, and they couldn't do that right.

Weed Trimmer - "Straight shaft," but it still had a **** flex drive shaft that broke constantly.

Rolling tool case, rated for 100# (plastic, natch); it broke the first day I had it with less than 50# in it.

Circular saw; motor shorted out on the 3rd 2x4 I tried to cut with it.

---------------------------------

I have some screwdrivers that are OK; not great, but OK. Very old.

I have a circa 1982 model Craftsman lawnmower that runs like a top; I bought that used 15 years ago, though.

There's an old Craftsman band saw out in my grandad's old shop, and I already sold off the drill press, but they both work.

The only Craftsman products that have ever done anything for me were old.

----------------------------------

I see people supporting brands for the wrong reason.

For example, when I was growing up, there were still a lot of people bad-mouthing Japanese cars, despite the late 70s, 80s and early 90s being the worst period for American cars. These people still clung to the idea, though, because it had been true, once, and now they had an emotional attachment. I still know people who swear by Dodge and Chevy, even as they pay through the nose for repairs; my dad was terrible about this; my uncle has put 3 motors in his Chevy Tahoe in 150k miles, but still calls it a "great truck."

That's what I think is happening with Craftsman; I think the people who are boosting them are either ignoring the problems, or aren't actually doing the kind of work that would show the problems.

Any tool will work if all it does it sit in the box.
 
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Codejack

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Mr_B

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^ In my stance and even my fathers opinion as we both been in the game our whole lives is it pretty stupid buying everything top brand new at any point let alone the early years. flip side is avoid real junk that ends up a dead loss or time loss as poor tool in function .
Hard to go wrong these days as low and mid range way better in quality and price if hunt around and truck tools bit cheaper than use to be.
Main thing also if buying brands online is try see for real before purchasing, have a look at tekton socket before go order set online, same with other bigger price online purchases when practically possible or at least know return policy favourable to you .
 
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