Bet you didn't read 2000 opinions - just the first one that came up for Toolguyd.
Now Google hand impacts and Vessel Impacta.
Tool quality.
- Thread starter JazzBlueRT
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Bet you didn't read 2000 opinions - just the first one that came up for Toolguyd.
Now Google hand impacts and Vessel Impacta.
The problem really with many screw types is that they are a camout design; Philips being one of them.
Its less about how much turning torque you can apply and more about how much forward pressure you can apply to overcome the camout.
Thats why impact screw drivers work so well.
Frank posted these in the tools of japan thread, they are screwdrivers that are designed to give extra bite for damaged philips/slotted screws.
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redwrench60
Well-known member
Maybe, I'd have to consider that feature with the other features together on the driver. Here's the thing, if a person plays around long enough he'll find a place where cordless impact drivers and even hand impact drivers won't work or won't fit.
My latest example: A friend brought me a Remington 11-87 he was trying to remove the shoulder stock from for refinishing. The retention screw was slotted and deep inside the stock (10-12") and super damn tight! He'd already tried a cordless impact driver with a long extension and it merely bounced around marring up the screw slot. I got my longest Snap On screwdriver with a bolster and we secured the weapon in a vise wrapped in a towel. I held the driver in my left hand, wrenched the bolster with my right and pushed hard against the handle with my body weight. A loud snap and the screw was free.
I don't use the bolsters every day but why wouldn't you want every available feature on your tools?
Only look into Vessel if you are working with JIS screws.
Many people don't know that there is a difference between Philips and JIS screws.
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Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Why do we always have to argue about tools? Why can't we just be happy with our tools?
Tool quality is often in the eye of the beholder. However, the standard answer usually revolves around Fit, Feel, and Finish. I would also add longevity to the equation. Any tool can look great new out of the wrapper but, it's how it holds up to daily use down the road that matters
Take a simple screwdriver for example. How do I measure quality on it? The first thing I look at is the handle. What's it made of? It is nonslip when covered in ATF or Coolant? Is it hard or soft? If soft will it get gooey the first time it gets exposed to something nasty like brake clean? Does it clean up well? how does the handle fit my hand?Can I whack on it? Then I move to the blade. Is it bolstered with a hex nut or is the blade hex shaped? I prefer bolstered hex shaped blades for ease of finger spinning despite what others say but, that's just me. It the blade tip vapor blasted for nonslip grip? Is the shaft chrome plated that will peel with use or satin finished? How thick is the blade shaft? Will it bend like cooked spaghetti or does it have some strength to it?
Any tool can be picked apart, measured, examined, and judged on its own merits. I have said before that it doesn't matter where the tool is made, or whose name is stamped on it. What matters is simply performance for the long haul. Figure out what features you like in a particular tool and find the tool that meets your needs. Just remember that my choice in tools isn't wrong because you don't like the brand or where it's made.
Tool quality is often in the eye of the beholder. However, the standard answer usually revolves around Fit, Feel, and Finish. I would also add longevity to the equation. Any tool can look great new out of the wrapper but, it's how it holds up to daily use down the road that matters
Take a simple screwdriver for example. How do I measure quality on it? The first thing I look at is the handle. What's it made of? It is nonslip when covered in ATF or Coolant? Is it hard or soft? If soft will it get gooey the first time it gets exposed to something nasty like brake clean? Does it clean up well? how does the handle fit my hand?Can I whack on it? Then I move to the blade. Is it bolstered with a hex nut or is the blade hex shaped? I prefer bolstered hex shaped blades for ease of finger spinning despite what others say but, that's just me. It the blade tip vapor blasted for nonslip grip? Is the shaft chrome plated that will peel with use or satin finished? How thick is the blade shaft? Will it bend like cooked spaghetti or does it have some strength to it?
Any tool can be picked apart, measured, examined, and judged on its own merits. I have said before that it doesn't matter where the tool is made, or whose name is stamped on it. What matters is simply performance for the long haul. Figure out what features you like in a particular tool and find the tool that meets your needs. Just remember that my choice in tools isn't wrong because you don't like the brand or where it's made.
Actually in real world use, the Vessel screwdrivers work very well on Philips head screws.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
You've got to look deeper than the cushioned handle. How does the mechanism feel? Does it feel like a precise highly engineered Swiss watch? How much backdrag does it have? Is the ratchet well balanced? Are there any sharp edges anywhere to irritate you? Does the ratchet feel strong? Is the direction lever easy to operate but not so easily operated that it accidentally changes direction?
That's just ratchets; I could go on and on about other types of tools. How about wrenches? Does your wrench feel so natural in your hand that you could turn nuts with it blindfolded? Mine do.
Actually took EW classes in high school after taking a speed reading test. I'm naturally a very fast reader. EW was helpful and sped up my reading considerably but in the end I lost some of the enjoyment. But no matter how many times you took a refresher course (as they offered), you wouldn't be able to read 100 much less 2000 opinions (posts?) in the time you had. So you really made a judgment call after reading one article? And real world use often will cause a different opinion for many. Try using a few different brands in each category, then opine on what is "best". Hiball and Fedwrench, along with others, gave very good opinions. So as you say RIF.
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Don't confuse "reading" with "skimming", there's a reason why colleges moved on from offering courses in Woods' fad.
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JazzBlueRT
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Why do we always have to argue about tools? Why can't we just be happy with our tools?
Tool quality is often in the eye of the beholder. However, the standard answer usually revolves around Fit, Feel, and Finish. I would also add longevity to the equation. Any tool can look great new out of the wrapper but, it's how it holds up to daily use down the road that matters
Take a simple screwdriver for example. How do I measure quality on it? The first thing I look at is the handle. What's it made of? It is nonslip when covered in ATF or Coolant? Is it hard or soft? If soft will it get gooey the first time it gets exposed to something nasty like brake clean? Does it clean up well? how does the handle fit my hand?Can I whack on it? Then I move to the blade. Is it bolstered with a hex nut or is the blade hex shaped? I prefer bolstered hex shaped blades for ease of finger spinning despite what others say but, that's just me. It the blade tip vapor blasted for nonslip grip? Is the shaft chrome plated that will peel with use or satin finished? How thick is the blade shaft? Will it bend like cooked spaghetti or does it have some strength to it?
Any tool can be picked apart, measured, examined, and judged on its own merits. I have said before that it doesn't matter where the tool is made, or whose name is stamped on it. What matters is simply performance for the long haul. Figure out what features you like in a particular tool and find the tool that meets your needs. Just remember that my choice in tools isn't wrong because you don't like the brand or where it's made.
Arguments stem from ignorance. My intent is to bring facts and knowledge into the open. With facts and knowledge, arguments become debates and healthy debates stimulate better decisions.
Long term reliability is a function of materials, manufacturing process and QC.
Most of us just know the brand and stick with it or follow others who say that the brand X tools are better than the other guys.
How transparent are these companies? How reliable is that "expert" who may be a disgruntled ex Sears worker or a brand Y tool truck owner.
So far I found Wright and Wera appear to be the most transparent about their tools.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
I have found that the tools that feel the best in my hand and function smoothly just so happen to be the most expensive tools. That's the way it is. I can't tolerate cheap junky tools.
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1. Manufacturing process -- for most hand tools, I prefer forged to stamped or cold forged. Though for scissors, wire strippers or (small gauge) wire cutters, stamped will do. Then there's the finishing process, are the tools examined and ground by hand? I'd rather not have to worry about burrs or rough surfaces, depending on the application. Rust protection is also pretty important, I'm also in the satin chrome camp in that regard.
2. Personal experience -- sure, ergonomics are huge, but then I've seen people who have these kinda paradoxically different approaches in how they use their tools. I know the limit to my effectiveness if I tried some maneuver beyond my grip strength, as well as the long-term consequences to joints, but that's not the case for some people. Quality, then, is so inherently subjective that it is in many ways a measure of personal efficiency with the tool. So there's never going to be some objective gold standard for tool design, nor should there be. Tool quality is determined by variety, if you have a population using a single well designed & well manufactured tool, then that population is still not going to be as effective/efficient than one that has access to a variety of designs, even if manufacturing quality varies.
3. Economics -- price correlates with quality, else the company goes out of business. All these tool brands foolishly offload manufacturing to Southeast Asia and then wonder why they have a dwindling brand portfolio when customers refuse to pay the brand premium on the exact same products they can get HF.
2. Personal experience -- sure, ergonomics are huge, but then I've seen people who have these kinda paradoxically different approaches in how they use their tools. I know the limit to my effectiveness if I tried some maneuver beyond my grip strength, as well as the long-term consequences to joints, but that's not the case for some people. Quality, then, is so inherently subjective that it is in many ways a measure of personal efficiency with the tool. So there's never going to be some objective gold standard for tool design, nor should there be. Tool quality is determined by variety, if you have a population using a single well designed & well manufactured tool, then that population is still not going to be as effective/efficient than one that has access to a variety of designs, even if manufacturing quality varies.
3. Economics -- price correlates with quality, else the company goes out of business. All these tool brands foolishly offload manufacturing to Southeast Asia and then wonder why they have a dwindling brand portfolio when customers refuse to pay the brand premium on the exact same products they can get HF.
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Why use the wrong tool for the job?
Craftsman has impact screw drivers specifically for philips:
https://www.craftsman.com/products/craftsman-2-pc-impact-screwdriver-set
Same tech different tip. Probably in partnership with vessel.
I would say most European brands are the most transparent.
Providing and adhering to specific DIN/ISO classifications is as transparent as it gets.
Most will provide you with the alloys up front (search vanadium steel 31CrV3):
http://gedoretools.com/pdf/gedore_wind_catalog.pdf
If you look here at PB Swiss:
https://www.pbswisstools.com/en/tools/quality-hand-tools/screwdrivers/highlights/
They will also tell you when not adhering to DIN/ISO:
"The parallel slotted screwdriver tip is a Swiss specialty. It is not included in the international standards (ISO, DIN). The accuracy of the parallel form and the chamfered corners are manufactured with genuine Swiss precision."
Maybe. Then again, maybe you're simply not that good at using them. Kinda tough to sort out when you're being hyperbolic, sarcastic, or simply dense.
Why use the wrong tool for the job?
Who says they are the wrong tool? The Vessels work fine on Philips screw heads. How many JIS fasteners are still being manufactured? How many JIS screwdrivers are still be made?
Here's an article that'll shed some light -
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-tools/hozan-jis-screwdrivers-review/
BTW, those Cmans are made in Japan (maybe by Vessel).
redwrench60
Well-known member
I never understand why these threads turn into an insult hurling contest. Do you guys act this way in a shop full of men? How do you not get your *** whipped? This is a forum where we share our tools and projects but some insist on being...well...tools.
What makes DIN or ISO more transparent than ANSI? Are the International Standardization firms better than the American version? It's all fluff if you ask me... If you continually put out junk, you aren't going to be in business very long.
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Try striking on the back of a screwdriver on a corroded, rusted stuck screw in an old tail light lens and see what happens. Or you can use your vaunted battery impact driver and snap the head off. Using a wrench on a good bolstered screwdriver with some pressure may get it out without cracking the lens or snapping off the screw head. But that's real world use for you.
Try using your tools for awhile. The internet and internet forums are only a starting place for tool evaluation. As others have already said, personal use will make the final determination of what is best for each of us.
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redwrench60
Well-known member
You got me there.You're right. I'll edit some of my answers to reflect this. And I apologize for any gratuitous insults. Thanks.
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Al Borland
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My orange handled Harbor Freight screwdrivers all do. And they were FREE! So For usability (8 years old) compared to purchase price (None), they win.
Nothing wrong with ANSI either. When I say transparency I mean displaying and acknowledging that adherence.
When we talk about quality, low quality tools, either wont fully conform, or the companies wont display that information.
If a company doesn't display the ANSI/ISO/DIN number does that automatically mean they aren't high quality? No. Would it be nice for them to just tell us they are conforming or not? Yes.
I think what you are referring to is the JIS move to DIN 5260 (including vessel).
DIN 5260 is a hybrid design to fit both JIS and Philips drives.
If you need to order JIS screws:
https://www.mcmaster.com/#jis-(japanese-industrial-standard)-machine-screws/=1a0vfid
JIS screws are still alive and well in Japan; its a better design than the philips, why stop using it?
The weird zone we get into is ISO 8764-1 vs DIN 5260. With ISO 8764-1 being the standard for anti-camout philips screw drivers.
Because of the inherent shape differences between JIS and US screws, the fit will always be better with a ISO 8764-1 in a Philips screw, however not very good in a JIS screw. Whereas a DIN 5260 will do JIS screws well, and Philips screws with mediocrity.
kythri
Well-known member
While there are certainly ways to independently, and, for the most part, unbiasedly quantify quality across certain specifications, nobody is, or has been, willing to go to the expense of providing a statistically relevant sample size to quash dismissals of "you only tested a single sample!"
Further, there's too many specifications that are completely subjective (look, feel, etc.) to accurately quantify.
For the vast majority of my tool collection, I feel that it's great, high-quality stuff. I know that some of it may not be "the best", but I believe it's far better than "good enough" to the point of me considering it to be in that "high-quality" metric.
I also know that, merely because of the brand stamped in it, or the COO, there's a bunch of folks that will dismiss it as cheap garbage.
It takes a fair amount of willpower to avoid getting suckered into a lot of the arguments/debates on this forum, and for the most part, I try to avoid it, unless I see statements made that are just flat-out lies or untruths.
ETA: I've taken part in a fair share myself, no denying it.
I've gotten to the point where, for the most part, I really don't give a damn what other people think of my stuff. If it's something I don't own that I'm looking for input on, I've come to the ability, most of the time, to tell who is speaking from experience, and who is full of ****, and making an opinionated statement with no experience - be it on this forum, or be it in online reviews.
I'm not going to change most anyone's mind of their preference, even if I believe their justifications are nonsense, and they're not going to convince me that what I've bought is garbage.
It's much easier to just sit back and watch folks earn a ban for continuing the same nonsense argument, and only piping up to provide some information based on my direct experience with a particular tool.
Further, there's too many specifications that are completely subjective (look, feel, etc.) to accurately quantify.
For the vast majority of my tool collection, I feel that it's great, high-quality stuff. I know that some of it may not be "the best", but I believe it's far better than "good enough" to the point of me considering it to be in that "high-quality" metric.
I also know that, merely because of the brand stamped in it, or the COO, there's a bunch of folks that will dismiss it as cheap garbage.
It takes a fair amount of willpower to avoid getting suckered into a lot of the arguments/debates on this forum, and for the most part, I try to avoid it, unless I see statements made that are just flat-out lies or untruths.
ETA: I've taken part in a fair share myself, no denying it.
I've gotten to the point where, for the most part, I really don't give a damn what other people think of my stuff. If it's something I don't own that I'm looking for input on, I've come to the ability, most of the time, to tell who is speaking from experience, and who is full of ****, and making an opinionated statement with no experience - be it on this forum, or be it in online reviews.
I'm not going to change most anyone's mind of their preference, even if I believe their justifications are nonsense, and they're not going to convince me that what I've bought is garbage.
It's much easier to just sit back and watch folks earn a ban for continuing the same nonsense argument, and only piping up to provide some information based on my direct experience with a particular tool.
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Lol... That's not exactly how you sold it a couple pages ago, It was almost like you had never heard of ANSI with your whole "most transparent" stance. I'm not aware of any tool manufacturer in 2017 that doesn't claim to "adhere" <--- Your words> to ANSI standards. If you go to HF they generally claim they are ANSI certified, where higher price tools give your ANSI code they are complying with based off the tool.
It's all fluff for the internet mechanics..
SantaAna12
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Tag team trolls. We are better than this.
Sold what?
I think you may be misunderstanding the difference between a company being transparent and a standard being transparent. I never compared one standard to be better than another.
I would challenge you to actually add substance to the discussion; whether right or wrong.
Don't need to take everything so personal.
Your comments are very condescending. No one here is better than anyone else.
Sold what?
I think you may be misunderstanding the difference between a company being transparent and a standard being transparent. I never compared one standard to be better than another.
I would challenge you to actually add substance to the discussion; whether right or wrong.
Don't need to take everything so personal.
Your comments are very condescending. No one here is better than anyone else.
It's your story... But I'll help decipher.
Did you not claim?
I would say most European brands are the most transparent.
Providing and adhering to specific DIN/ISO classifications is as transparent as it gets.
How is that more transparent HF claiming they ANSI certified?
How is that more transparent than Snap On claiming they are ANSI certified?
Gearwrench?
SK?
Carlyle?
I never claimed that you said one standard was better than the other, Never... I Was and am still curious to what makes you Say that the "European tools are more transparent" is it because you wherent aware of ANSI. Did you feel DiN/ISO was stricter? (<--- obviously not based off your recent post) So if it's not #1... What is it?
I never claimed anyone was better than anyone, It is a discussion forum. If you don't wish to have questions asked, Preface that in your response. The Majority of tool manufacturers not only meet but exceed ANSI, sometimes advertised as 5x's as much.
Makes me warm and fuzzy...
As far as adding some substance to the discussion? Since No one had mentioned that Europe and DIN/ISO aren't the only Standardization companies in the World, I've just added substance for someone interested in learning about ANSI and Tools marketed in the States.
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Finky198
Well-known member
Well then, screwdrivers it is. The things I look for in a screwdriver are as follows:
1) Strength. The ability to turn or break loose a tight or seized screw without chipping or deforming and maybe even tolerate some abuse. I'm a screwdriver bender from way back.
2) Solvent resistance. At my work my screwdrivers will be exposed to and even soaked in oil, gas, diesel, ATF, grease along with various fluids and solvents. Having rubber or weak plastics means they swell, rot and disintegrate as well as being too slippery.
3) Handle design. I prefer a quad lobe design over a round or tri lobe design. I can really lay down some torque with one. This is pure preference and is not really part of the brand X vs. brand Y argument but to me it makes one better than the other.
4) Shank design. I like a chrome finish for rust protection, a hex bolster for using a wrench and vapor blasted tips for traction in a screw head.
5) Depth of product line. I like a brand that offers screwdrivers in long, short, stubby, extra long, torx, metric/SAE nut drivers, hex drivers, bla bla bla. I can't take a brand seriously that only makes simple phillips and slotted drivers.
P.S. My favorites are Classic Snap On hard handles and Proto Duratec screwdrivers.
Great description I'm a big fan of the snap hard handles as well. I read through your post and I had a similar issue looking for good screw drivers that fit similar to your criteria and I ended up with Wiha’s micro finish Extra heavy duty drivers. They are oil/gas resistant, with a hex bolster and striking cap. They are by far the toughest screw driver I’ve come across way over built. And I highly recommend them.
For me buying tools is all about keeping my mouth shut, and my ears and eyes open to gather as much quality info before making a purchase. Being that I do most of the purchasing for the shop. I’ve learned some times decisions are made for short term or long. Some times just for 1 job, others might get used 10 times a day. The term quality is so broad and so bias to oppions that I take it with a grain of salt.
As far as brands go its hard to argue with some of the industry leaders and their investment in new technologies, they in turn offer top notch “quality” product. I think 3m is an excellent example in the abrasives area. Does it matter to you op if u get 20%-30% more weld removal out of a 2” roloc maybe not but when your using lots of them in a production environment it could save 1000s or even a millions of dollars. For me I buy them because for the small price difference I know I’m getting a better product that has better quality control and is proven to work better then the competition and Ive seen and tested it myself. That’s one less thing that I have to think about during my day to day operations.
I don’t just see quality in 3m. I put trust in them that they produce superior products. when I look up a part# and order it 9-10 times I’m happy with said product(s).
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plinker
Well-known member
What I have noticed is the euro stuff is more published with their standards. I have bought a few air tools that came with a certificate stating EC compliance about something or another.
Likely it has to do with Europe being very OSHA strict for every little thing. In other words if it's not in compliance then you cant use it over there from what I understand. Over here, you dont see ANSI published as very few likely care that much to know. I'm sure it can be found out easily enough.
+1 European tools not only say they adhere to a certain standard but they will tell you what specific standard for that specific tool, right up front in their catalogs.
That's transparency; you don't have to ask for it, or wonder if it adheres, its right there.
Many industries require a tool to be explicitly built to a standard or it cant be used.
No one said american companies cant provide this if required, nor does it mean that if they don't adhere that they are automatically low quality.
Possibly.. it’s not like you can print the certification on all tools, so I’m gonna assume that the information whether it claims that it’s certified or certitified with the section number designed for the type of tool has to be found in paper form or via a webpage. I’ve definitely seen the certification stamp/writing on tool packaging, this isn’t the first time ANSI has been brought up, I concur most don’t care. I stated earlier, if a tool company is producing ****, and by no means is any certification excuse them from the occasional QC hiccup, they aren’t gonna be in business very long with forums and the ability for consumers to complain.
I guess my question would be? Is it a issue of the company being more transparent, or consumers being more attentive and doing there research?
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JohnDeere1
Banned
I'll bite on this one lol.
I buy tools based on Brand name which has to be professional only either truck or industrial and usually based on coo but not always because I don't believe say snap on would put they're name on junk and sell it off thier trucks they save that **** for the cheap labeled knives,lights and air compressors they sell I stores which still are not that bad. Warranty is also big for me I even make sure my drill bits or screwdriver bits have lifetime warranties if they have that so what if it breaks I always keep doubles or triples of everything most used.
Sometimes color might play into it but rarely and chrome shinyness does not matter to me it gets scratched to hell anyways. The way it feels in the hand matters sometimes as well but with truck brands it's never been an issue I don't prefer one over the other really if it's comfort grip all are designed to fit nicely I have smaller hands and never have an issue.
Wrenches I like Snap on or matco over Mac due to the square beams with sharp edges that's that's personal preference and it will be like that with anyone because like I said all truck brand hard lines are about equal it comes down to the user ist like cars different strokes for different folks.
Coo doesn't always matter I have Snap on impacts and sunex and I like them equally both are well regarded brands. I have alot of Wright tools and Snap on and I like them equally as well as matco and Mac with most things I'm no fan boy of any brand I like a appreciate them all I like the variety and appreciate thier differences plus I get to compare them all with sockets there's no difference all will lasts the same and all look nice.
I'm sure none of this answered anything because it's impossible to answer this question one is no better than the other when comparing pro grade tools it's all personal preferences only steel is steel to me all pro brands use high grade snap ons steel is no more special than Mac's or Wright's it's all alloy steel who cares about properties of it when you buy top tier brands you get what you pay for and thats quality. What makes me or you like something is what makes us difference nothing will ever be unanimous like Ingersoll Rand vs snap on its apples to Apple's but 50% will go each way. GL finding an answer.
I buy tools based on Brand name which has to be professional only either truck or industrial and usually based on coo but not always because I don't believe say snap on would put they're name on junk and sell it off thier trucks they save that **** for the cheap labeled knives,lights and air compressors they sell I stores which still are not that bad. Warranty is also big for me I even make sure my drill bits or screwdriver bits have lifetime warranties if they have that so what if it breaks I always keep doubles or triples of everything most used.
Sometimes color might play into it but rarely and chrome shinyness does not matter to me it gets scratched to hell anyways. The way it feels in the hand matters sometimes as well but with truck brands it's never been an issue I don't prefer one over the other really if it's comfort grip all are designed to fit nicely I have smaller hands and never have an issue.
Wrenches I like Snap on or matco over Mac due to the square beams with sharp edges that's that's personal preference and it will be like that with anyone because like I said all truck brand hard lines are about equal it comes down to the user ist like cars different strokes for different folks.
Coo doesn't always matter I have Snap on impacts and sunex and I like them equally both are well regarded brands. I have alot of Wright tools and Snap on and I like them equally as well as matco and Mac with most things I'm no fan boy of any brand I like a appreciate them all I like the variety and appreciate thier differences plus I get to compare them all with sockets there's no difference all will lasts the same and all look nice.
I'm sure none of this answered anything because it's impossible to answer this question one is no better than the other when comparing pro grade tools it's all personal preferences only steel is steel to me all pro brands use high grade snap ons steel is no more special than Mac's or Wright's it's all alloy steel who cares about properties of it when you buy top tier brands you get what you pay for and thats quality. What makes me or you like something is what makes us difference nothing will ever be unanimous like Ingersoll Rand vs snap on its apples to Apple's but 50% will go each way. GL finding an answer.
BDT/NWMN
Well-known member
So true
And over the decades of using these various tools while working 45 to 70 hour workweeks; experience helps to separate the wheat from the chaff.
And being that not all of Us work on the same equipment or use the same types of tools to the same degree on a daily basis; there will be a variation of opinions..
So many people simply do not understand this.
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JazzBlueRT
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No response.
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JazzBlueRT
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PB Blaster.
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JazzBlueRT
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Instead of arguing and insulting, why not add your knowledge and experience into the discussion?
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JazzBlueRT
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So true
And over the decades of using these various tools while working 45 to 70 hour workweeks; experience helps to separate the wheat from the chaff.
And being that not all of Us work on the same equipment or use the same types of tools to the same degree on a daily basis; there will be a variation of opinions..
So many people simply do not understand this.
Things change over time. What was true 20 years ago, may not be true today. Experience plays a role, but it also places personal preferences into the equation and the goal here is to identify what exactly quality is, as has been nicely phrased; how to "quantify quality."
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JazzBlueRT
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This is not a ******* match, the point of this discussion is to determine what actually constitutes tool quality and as such, nobody is either right or wrong.
There are many standards and adherence to these standards helps consumers make informed decisions on what they purchase.
We should also add ASME to the list of standards which demonstrate transparency.
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