Tool Rant (Made in China) GRRR!!!

[LawnDart79]

Well, I've recently decided to put together a set of tools for a road box. I've decided to do so, that way I can take it with me on those jobs requiring tools on the go, such as working on farm equipment out in the field. I'm tired of robbing tools to take on the road from my main box, then not having them in my main box when needed because they're in the truck or in the barn at the farm.

So, after work today, I headed over to Sears to pick up a couple of tools for this box including a couple of pairs of Vice Grips. Well, I pull in the parking lot and it's nothing but tumbleweeds blowing through. Not a car in sight. I should've taken this as a sign, but I didn't.

Well, I go in and head toward the tool section (really the only area of Sears I ever go to). Not a single person in the entire tool section. I head towards the pliers aisle and see the Vice Grips, oh goodie. As I look at them, something doesn't appear right. They have that Harbor Freight metal color, which to me was a red flag. I investigate further and what do I find...MADE IN CHINA. What the ****!!!

This really pissed me off, so I think to myself, maybe I'll get the Craftsman version instead. I take a look at them and what do I see...MADE IN CHINA.

I then ask myself..."should I buy the Vice Grips anyway even though they're made in China?" I come to the quick conclusion of "Not only NO, but **** NO!" If I want China vice grips, I'll go to Harbor Freight and buy China vice grips. At least vice grips at Harbor Freight are cheap which reflects their made in China shittyness as opposed to these expensive pieces of **** from Irwin.

After deciding to ****-it on the Vice Grip purchase, I decided I would take a look at the other Craftsman offerings. WOW, what a joke. Lots of China ****, probably 40% in regards to hand tools. What a sad day. I was disappointed for sure.

 

[Boost Creep]

 

[NinetyTwoFifty]

Buy Snap On.

 

[Muffduster]

True, but you gotta admit it was as colorful of an anti-China rant as we've seen lately.

 

[Case IH]

If it is a road/field box I would just use china cause if your equiptment is anything like what I drive it is covered I manure or mud 70% of the time and USA tools aren't worth it due to the amount of abuse field tools get and plus if you loose them you won't be out that much....

 

[toolnut]

Pinch yourself so you know that your not dreaming and than "they" will tell you it's a world economy and it is "good" for all of "us"......Last one out please turn off the lights.

 

[briggsguy17]

Uhm......have you been living under a rock??? This issue has been discussed at great lengths here.

 

[LawnDart79]

Sorry, I guess I didn't know I was beating a dead horse in regards to the Vice Grips. I did know some of the Craftsman stuff was being sent to China, but I didn't realize it was as bad as what I witnessed today.

It's been at least 8-10 years since I've bought a pair of Vice Grips and I guess my expectations were that they were still made in USA. My mistake.

I don't have a need to buy many tools anymore, so I'm out of the loop on some items.

 

[briggsguy17]

I think this is just the beginning as far as craftsman goes.........

 

[LawnDart79]

If it is a road/field box I would just use china cause if your equiptment is anything like what I drive it is covered I manure or mud 70% of the time and USA tools aren't worth it due to the amount of abuse field tools get and plus if you loose them you won't be out that much....

I'm not a fan of China hand tools. I've bought cheap hand tools for purposes similar to this before and have always regretted doing so. I'd rather have a quality set to work with, even though they may cost more.

 

[Greatbear]

Irwin Tools basically closed up every domestic factory and outsourced everything to China. Recently they've had the nerve to hold a "National Tradesman Day", a bunch of seminars and demonstrations around tools and such with the focus being on how valuable the trades and tradesmen are fort he vitality of the country and economy and bla bla. Ironic that all the tools on display were made in China.

 

[thesilverone]

yeap moved to china in 2008

 

[eborcim]

keep on floggin' that horse

 

[jrodc455]

The craftsman ones are made by Irwin so as vise grip brand became a bride of Mao, so did the crapsmans.

 

[leod]

i haven't got a vise grip yet, all i see are Chi-made in stores.

the SO sets looks like a good price for the money and I'm thinking of getting one (made in Spain) or get the 2 or 3 grip-on at amazon

 

[JeepsAreBuilt]

I think vise grip brand locking pliers are better than the harbor freight ones. Who makes a better locking plier.. Grip-on ?

 

[Skin]

did you actually check the stock? My local stores still has USA sets, they just keep stacking the new stuff right ontop. Its the same at home dope.

 

[KTMGuy]

Irwin Tools basically closed up every domestic factory and outsourced everything to China. Recently they've had the nerve to hold a "National Tradesman Day", a bunch of seminars and demonstrations around tools and such with the focus being on how valuable the trades and tradesmen are fort he vitality of the country and economy and bla bla. Ironic that all the tools on display were made in China.

I'm glad somebody else realized that as well. I received the e-mails about the "National Tradesman Day" from Irwin and sent this reply:

"Hi,

Just wanted to give a little feedback.

Shutting factories down in the U.S. (Vise Grip factory in Nebraska) and sending production to China and Taiwan isn't the best way to support "America's Tradesmen". I know that your products are made all over the world, but when you claim that you support "America's tradesmen" and the tools you produce are made in a foreign country, you're not fully supporting "America's Tradesmen".

Just wanted to throw that out there.

Thanks."

I'm sure the e-mail didn't get back to Irwin since their e-mail was just an automatic thing but maybe one person got to read it.

 

[jdv]

I'm in the same boat. I've been looking for a couple of grips and I searched all the stores hoping to find a couple on the back of the shelf, all my local HD and Lowes only stock a couple on the shelf. I even checked out half a dozen second hand and pawn shops yesterday, still could only find newer Irwin's, or older no name brand China stuff. I did stop in at NAPA and saw a couple dusty NAPA branded vise grips that were made in Spain, they look real similar to Grip-ons.

 

[ibedayank]

Lawndart just wait until you check the COG of the craftsman power tools.
If i am going to wind up buying something from china i will also go to HF
and pay the made in china price not 3 or more times more and still get something made in china. If it breaks just bring the recite and return it to HF and get a new one...

 

[Gary S]

I bought some Channelock tools last winter. They were still US made.

And, my cheap toolbox in my garage is full to the top with my 70s and 80s US made tools that I will never wear out.

 

[dseybert]

did you actually check the stock? My local stores still has USA sets, they just keep stacking the new stuff right ontop.

I went to buy a set of Vise Grips last summer and was surprised when the first package I grabbed said Made in China. I dug around on the shelves a bit more and found a few that still said Made in USA. Looking at the two side by side it was clearly evident that they were not of equal quality. I only bought one set, but maybe I should've bought the other two as well.

 

[Wrenches of Death]

This is the first time I've seen this. It took me a little bit to realize what it was. It's hilarious!

WoD

 

[catfish]

If it is a road/field box I would just use china cause if your equiptment is anything like what I drive it is covered I manure or mud 70% of the time and USA tools aren't worth it due to the amount of abuse field tools get and plus if you loose them you won't be out that much....

Meh for the spare toolbox tools just go to garage sales/junk yards/swapmeets and pick up old cheap secondhand tools.Doesn't matter if they are a little rusty.

Don't line the pockets of the outsourcing Co's.

 

[camarotoolman]

Go to the flea market, you get get junk yard tools very cheap. I sell china wrenches for a buck! You or your help will loose them anyway.

 

[harvero]

I was able to buy a bunch of US made vise grips from http://store.harryepstein.com/ last fall. I recently purchased some of the flare nut vise grips off of amazon and these were made in Taiwan.

 

[472scout]

I heard Don Trump today talking about putting a 25% tax on Chinese imports to offset their currency manipulation.

RICHARD PIERSOL / Lincoln Journal Star | Posted: Friday, August 29, 2008 7:00 pm

Newell Rubbermaid, the owner of the historic Vise-Grip brand and its plant in DeWitt, will tell the remaining 300-plus employees next week the plant is closing at the end of October, sources told the Journal Star.

The production will be transferred, at least in part, to China.

And with it will go a piece of Nebraska’s 20th century industrial legacy — and a big part of the village of DeWitt’s livelihood and history.

If true, the closing is bound to be devastating for the Saline County village of 572, and for its region. DeWitt is about 16 miles northwest of Beatrice.

The Journal Star learned of the closing from an employee and a Nebraska civic leader. Both asked not be identified for fear of retaliation against plant employees.

Others plant workers told the Beatrice Daily Sun newspaper they have signed agreements not to disclose company information or risk being fired.

Employees were expecting a meeting this week to announce news at the plant, an employee told the Journal Star, but it was postponed until Wednesday.

Village Board Chairman Randy Badman said the village has not been officially informed of anything. But he acknowledged the rumors and the common knowledge that employees expect an announcement next week.

The state of Nebraska’s Workforce Development reaction team is expected to be at the plant next week to help people losing their jobs, the employee said.

But Terry Johnston, director of administrative services, for the state’s Workforce Development agency, said she had no indication the state’s team was alerted to the closing.

“I haven’t seen anything in that regard,” she said.

Under federal law, in most circumstances, companies are required to give the state and employees 60 days notice of a plant closing. The meeting Wednesday would be just short of 60 days to the end of October.

Company spokesman Ira Gleser refused to comment on what he called speculation and rumor about the plant. He would not confirm or deny plans for an employee meeting next week.

Public discussion of the plant’s future intensified after Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Scott Kleeb visited July 8 and talked to employees about the uncertainty they faced, said his campaign director, Joe Zepecki.

In a press release after he visited the plant, Kleeb said: “The rumor on the shop floor is that, despite increased productivity and nearly a century’s worth of community ties, this facility may soon be closed and production shipped overseas.”

Kleeb brought up the uncertainty of the plant’s future in a recent debate with Republican candidate Mike Johanns, according to a transcript provided by Zapecki.

Vise-Grip has a celebrated history in DeWitt and Nebraska.

Danish immigrant Bill Petersen developed his first pair of locking pliers in 1915, according to popular histories. He patented the device in 1924 and began production at his blacksmith shop in DeWitt.

By 1928, the company had more than 600 employees.

When Petersen died in 1962, his family took over.

Peterson’s daughter, Harriet Fort, still lives in DeWitt. A son, Richard, died in 2006.

In 1985, Richard’s son, Allen Petersen, bought his family’s interests and the business was renamed American Tool Companies. Allen Petersen died in November in Chicago.

American Tool sold out in 2002 to Newell Rubbermaid, a minority owner since 1985. Since then, the DeWitt plant has operated under the name of Irwin Industrial Tools, a company American Tool bought in 1993.

Not quite a century after the tool rose in popularity among professional and amateur mechanics, things started fading, Journal Star archives show.

In 2003, the company closed divisions in Beatrice, idling 200 people there.

American Tools called that closing a “streamlining initiative designed to help the company control costs and remain competitive in global markets.”

The DeWitt plant still employed 500 people then.

In 2005, the future of the plant and the jobs of more than 400 people who still worked there appeared uncertain after Newell Rubbermaid announced a plan to lay off 5,000 of 31,000 employees worldwide and to close one-third of its 80 factories.

A market analyst who followed the company then, Eric Bosshard, said the DeWitt operation was too valuable to close.

“Do you have a Vise-Grip? They’re not going to get rid of Vise-Grip,” said Bosshard at the time.

“That’s one of their growth businesses. They love the tool business.”

In March 2007, the company announced it would continue to assemble and package Vise-Grips at DeWitt, but it would outsource manufacturing of the components. That cost more jobs.

Vise-Grip is one part of one brand, Irwin, that is among six tool brands produced by Newell Rubbermaid, more well known for its food containers.

On its financial reports, the tools and hardware division shows a slight decline in sales so far this year, and a slight gain in operating income, before restructuring charges are allocated.

As early as 2005, the stock analyst Bosshard recognized circumstances didn’t assure the Vise-Grip factory’s continued operation in the place it is now.

“One could ask if they’ll continue to make Vise-Grips in DeWitt, Nebraska,” Bosshard said then.

Not for long, as it turns out.

Reach Richard Piersol at 473-7241 or at [email protected]. Joelyn Hansen of the Beatrice Daily Sun contributed to this story.

 

[Zebu Fellenz]

If it is a road/field box I would just use china cause if your equiptment is anything like what I drive it is covered I manure or mud 70% of the time and USA tools aren't worth it due to the amount of abuse field tools get and plus if you loose them you won't be out that much....

I guess I'm one of those guys who see's things differently. I have primarily USA and good European tools in my field box because I KNOW that they will be used and abused. If I'm going to be putting a pipe on my wrench to break a bolt loose the last thing I want to be worried about is breaking the wrench due to questionable steel quality.

I'm not saying you need a box stocked with Snap-On, I use a mix of older Proto, SK, Craftsman, Knipex, Williams in my field box, I don't have matched sets and the tools aren't too shiny but they work great for me and honestly probably didn't cost much more if any more than buying new China tools.

 

[Boost Creep]

I went to buy a set of Vise Grips last summer and was surprised when the first package I grabbed said Made in China. I dug around on the shelves a bit more and found a few that still said Made in USA. Looking at the two side by side it was clearly evident that they were not of equal quality. I only bought one set, but maybe I should've bought the other two as well.

i always check all the vise grip stock when i stop in stores. in the last couple months i've dug up 4-5 made in USA ones and promptly bought them

 

[LawnDart79]

Once again, sorry for beating a dead horse.

After doing some research, I've decided that I'll buy a couple pair of Snap-On's locking pliers and try them on for size.

Like many guys here, most of my hand tool collection was built up years back and I don't have the need to buy lots of tools on a regular basis. I do still have the need to buy an item or two from time to time though and when I do, I will buy quality stuff. Sorry Irwin, China made vise grips don't qualify as "quality stuff".

 

[demographic]

That's globalisation for you.

Irwin just seems to have bought out the good manufacturing names (Record for instance) and closed down production in the UK to move it out to China, then they charge the same premium prices for them.

That's why when I'm looking for Record stuff, I get the older stuff that says Made in England on them.

 

[mrholeshot]

That horse isn't dead yet. Keep beating it. Enough people ***** people listen

 

[thetreshon]

Once again, sorry for beating a dead horse.

After doing some research, I've decided that I'll buy a couple pair of Snap-On's locking pliers and try them on for size.

Like many guys here, most of my hand tool collection was built up years back and I don't have the need to buy lots of tools on a regular basis. I do still have the need to buy an item or two from time to time though and when I do, I will buy quality stuff. Sorry Irwin, China made vise grips don't qualify as "quality stuff".

Hey, if you take a little time, go around to your independent hardware stores and even look thru the stock at Home Depot - buried in the back of the pegs, I've found several pairs of totally USA made Vise Grips.

Look at least for the MADE IN USA that has the WHITE background. Legalities changed for labelling over the years for country of origin and before China made, they were made in Taiwan, before that USA 'with foreign materials', before that blue and red logo Made in USA (but i'm pretty sure still had some foreign parts).

I've found a few pairs that weren't even in plastic package, they were the really old paper/cardstock packaging. Quality stuff.

Look and you'll find them! Tell us if you do and post pics!

 

[bczygan]

I just called Irwin customer service. They are in NC. I learned that they still have a plant in the North East. And every customer comment emailed to them is read and responded to. They do have a tradesman's show coming up. As a company they are global in their manufacture and in their marketing. That's something that people who want all the products they use, to come from their own country, don't understand. In a global market you manufacture in the most appropriate places and market in the most appropriate places, for each price point. You match each niche market with a corresponding niche manufacturing capability. And with changing technology capabilities blanket statements about COO quality aren't so easy. You can get top quality in a product from anywhere. But top quality will almost always come with a high price. The playing field is becoming more leveled. And for the buyer, looking for deals is more complicated.

 

[472scout]

As a company they are global in their manufacture and in their marketing. That's something that people who want all the products they use, to come from their own country, don't understand.

I believe the majority of us understand perfectly that if you want to maximize profits in the current market environment you outsource a respected brand name to the lowest bidder, typically offshore, without regard to the long term effects on your own country.

Did I miss anything?

 

[emeraldcoupe]

just go to a flea market or swap meet. in the last couple of weeks i've bought 5 pairs of USA made vice grips, 1 regular pair and 4 of the welding clamps all for about $30.

 

[bczygan]

I believe the majority of us understand perfectly that if you want to maximize profits in the current market environment you outsource a respected brand name to the lowest bidder, typically offshore, without regard to the long term effects on your own country.

Did I miss anything?

You are right. This is a savvy group who DO understand. And many don't like it. One way to look at it is that it takes jobs and money away from "us". Another way to look at it is that the product could no longer be manufactured here with our costs, and to the standards and specifications it had, and still have a market of the size needed at the increased price point required.
When companies do this movement offshore they can be dishonest and try to hide the fact, or simply do less to advertise that the COO and specifications of the product have changed. At the very least this can be seen as trading on the good name of their product, or at worst as a kind of bait and switch. A good percentage of consumers aren't aware enough or don't care enough to make a fuss. Some people buy tools based on price alone. Knowledgeable people here though feel betrayed. Especially concerning warranty.
But the realistic fact is that we DO live in a global marketplace. Things will just keep changing faster and as a buyer you will have more difficulty knowing what is what. It will take more work to keep on top of who is making the tool you want. The unspoken contract you thought you had where you knew which countries made good tools and which didn't has been broken. The idea that US companies would make the best quality items at great prices is no longer true. It may seem that everything is sliding down to the lowest common denominator, but this group has proved that is not true. High quality tools are available in many places in the world including here. They command premium prices. Sometimes more than we are willing or able to pay. I see the same thing in household furniture where I live. Good quality furniture is out of the price range of most people. So low quality, inexpensive furniture is the norm. It is readily available and sold almost entirely on the basis of cost. So what's the answer? The answer is that we have the choices we have. Personally, while I bemoan the loss of quality things made by long time American companies that have vanished, or the fast pace of change that causes me to be more careful of what I buy, it is what it is. The global economy has produced more choices, some of them better than what has been lost. There are more kinds of tools at more different levels of quality and price points than I have ever seen in my life. It just takes the help of the knowledgeable people here to find what I need.............Thanks BTW for that!!!

 

[jjjrmx5]

You are right. This is a savvy group who DO understand. And many don't like it. One way to look at it is that it takes jobs and money away from "us". Another way to look at it is that the product could no longer be manufactured here with our costs, and to the standards and specifications it had, and still have a market of the size needed at the increased price point required.

Sounds like you're starting to believe your own bull$hit.

In many if not most cases, quality suffers when mfg. is moved to the other side of the world, especially China. It's all about the bottom line and it's only in the last few years companies started to realized that with so many people jobless due to outsourcing that no one has cash to purchase thier's or anyone else's products whatever they be.

For being a Detroit local, that should ring home to you more than a lot of us.

That said, the non-US made Irwins I have purchased are adequate for most jobs and they are FAR better then the HF vice grips, which is one of many tools I will never buy again from HF.

 

[SuperSocket]

I tried to only buy craftsman since it was "American", but after buying and actually checking out the parts... it's become more and more Chinese made.

So rather than paying for overpriced stuff that is made in china, I just go to Harbor Freight. I figure if I am going to buy Chinese, I might just as well get a great deal at it.

I try to buy US product but it's becoming very hard. A lot of vendors will put "USA" on their products when it was only assembled, painted, or some other easy production step performed here in the US.

 

[route246]

Those of you old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" meant total junk, especially with the early Toyota and Honda vehicles know that it is only a matter of time, probably decades in the case of manufacturing, that China will prosper as a nation and quality standards will increase and "Made in Uzbekistan" or "Made in Turkmenistan" will replace "Made in China" as the favored country to bash.

Realistically, look at the progression of manufacturing quality with respect to the USA and western Europe. Japan has probably caught up and exceeded in many manufacturing areas. Taiwan is behind but making strides with Korea on the heels of Taiwan and minor countries like India, Singapore and Vietnam lagging in many areas of manufacturing.

There are many electronic components made in China today with factories built by western and Japanese companies to their specifications. Semiconductor manufacturing is on par with the best stuff in Taiwan except the most valuable IP (intellectual property) is still not exported to China for manufacture yet because of the legal system and lack of remedy.

With respect to salary arbitrage in the white collar arena, India is an interesting study. Salaries have inflated there to the point that it is no longer attractive for US companies to outsource everything to India. It is a monkey-see-monkey-do mentality and the dumber companies are slower to realize this but the India IT Bubble is slowly deflating and less jobs are moving there. As US wages get squeezed more jobs are moving back to the US. It just takes time and is very painful to those affected.