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Tool storage and accountability

CGarage

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On the other hand.....I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been on a job where a crew shows up without a level,shovel,hammer or some other piece of basic yet essential equipment and 3-4 guys stand around while someone goes to retrieve what should have been standard issue on every truck.Shop tools should never leave the shop and every truck should be equipped with the tools required for whatever the task at hand is ,with someone on every truck being responsible for ensuring that is the case.

And for the most critical items, it is cheaper to carry two of those, or more, to prevent down time when mistakes happen.

Didn’t bring the level? Don’t worry, we have two spares in the truck. Continue Mission.

You can get a decent American made level at Walmart these days for $10. A fancy Austrian Sola level is $30 off Amazon.

Front loading the cost of doubles and triples (spare tools) is cheaper than paying 4 guys to stand around doing nothing hourly while the 5th screws off to find what went missing, and grabs lunch for himself on the way back.

There goes half a day x 5 wages per person for that time period.
 
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Kscardsfan

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Tools and their storage,distribution aren't the problem, its time to start the process of replacing the humans.You've heard the saying about one bad apple ??????
Our staff, including management and the office admin lady, is 5 full time employees if we’re fully staffed. He is the crew lol.
 
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Kscardsfan

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Any real tradesman has their own tools. Doesn’t matter if it’s a plumber, electrician, HVAC, mechanic, body man, millwright or rod buster. They own and maintain their own personalized tool set. It shows they are serious and invested in their trade. The shop provides equipment, job specific specialty tools and shop supplies. If you have to provide a ratchet or a pair of Channellocks then there’s a problem.
I’ve yet to see a title for jack of all trades/handyman. And certainly never seen a job description for this that required buying their own tools when they don’t know what tools might be required of them that day. It’s like being a building superintendent spread out over a bigger area.
 

ycgoat

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a locked tool cage in the shop where 1 person issues large shop tools and tracks where they are. Then a service truck minimum inventory where each tech is responsible for maintaining their inventory and must submit a written justification when requesting replacements. As long as the techs are locking their trucks and the tool crib is secure, a bad apple will have a hard time circumventing the system
 

redwrench60

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I’ve yet to see a title for jack of all trades/handyman. And certainly never seen a job description for this that required buying their own tools when they don’t know what tools might be required of them that day. It’s like being a building superintendent spread out over a bigger area.
It’s called Maintenance Man. He’s part plumber, part electrician, part carpenter, part locksmith, part mechanic, the list goes on and on. A good maintenance man has all the essential basics to tackle the daily routine maintenance and basic repairs tailored to the environment he’s in. Thousands of people do this type of work every day. Any tradesmen should have basic tools.
 
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Kscardsfan

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It’s called Maintenance Man. He’s part plumber, part electrician, part carpenter, part locksmith, part mechanic, the list goes on and on. A good maintenance man has all the essential basics to tackle the daily routine maintenance and basic repairs tailored to the environment he’s in. Thousands of people do this type of work every day. Any tradesmen should have basic tools.
I agree with you that a skilled tradesman should have his own tools and take care of them. This isn’t a skilled position, and the state has long ago bought all the maintenance guys their tools all over the system. This cat is an isolated case and I have to figure out what I can do to mitigate the problem. But y’all as a whole have given me a litany list of good ideas and things to implement. My current project is just getting the tools in the shop put in their correct places. The carpentry tools, plumbing tools, lawn care stuff etc is just wherever it got set down at the end of the day right now. I’ve got some interns coming back who have been helping me get stuff moved into groups of tools/like items (painting supplies, plumbing tools, mechanics tools etc) so they will be stored together and organized like that right now. From there I need more fine tuning and suggestions for it all.
 

Odd-job

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He sounds to me like a common archatype at many businesses. Hes a PITA who accomplishes little, but management has bigger fish to fry so they let him run awry. Hes been easier just to ignore, kicking the can down the road, and now OP gets to deal with the dumb dumb who should have been given the boot years ago. It's a massive pain because these people think they're critical to the operation but are really just a reliable body to fill out a schedule with.
I hear you, but sometimes its a good business/management decision to just deal with and/or manage it rather than reaching for the hammer. At one point, in my younger days, I had an attitude of firing/washing out everyone that I personally felt couldn't hang, but have since tried adopting a more objective perspective. At least this is what I try reminding myself every day as a desk jockey.

I might be too sympathetic here that being said. I think I have family members with cluttered cars worse than that work truck :(.
 
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Kscardsfan

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I hear you, but sometimes its a good business/management decision to just deal with and/or manage it rather than reaching for the hammer. At one point, in my younger days, I had an attitude of firing/washing out everyone that I personally felt couldn't hang, but have since tried adopting a more objective perspective. At least this is what I try reminding myself every day as a desk jockey.

I might be too sympathetic here that being said. I think I have family members with cluttered cars worse than that work truck :(.
I don’t want to out and out **** can the guy. At least not yet. But if his habits didn’t affect the rest of the staff/daily operations, and cause incredible overlaps/redundancy in purchases/inventory of supplies it wouldn’t be an issue. In a perfect world I could counsel him and get him to see the error of his ways and work with him on improving efficiency etc. In reality, he’s 69 or 70 and has had at least 6-7 years at our shop of indifference by his supervisor and previous managers of him and his former supervisor. I fear it’ll be a lesson in teaching old dogs new tricks at this point.
 

Odd-job

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I don’t want to out and out **** can the guy. At least not yet. But if his habits didn’t affect the rest of the staff/daily operations, and cause incredible overlaps/redundancy in purchases/inventory of supplies it wouldn’t be an issue. In a perfect world I could counsel him and get him to see the error of his ways and work with him on improving efficiency etc. In reality, he’s 69 or 70 and has had at least 6-7 years at our shop of indifference by his supervisor and previous managers of him and his former supervisor. I fear it’ll be a lesson in teaching old dogs new tricks at this point.

Glad to see you are approaching this with maturity and sounds like you will make the right decision at the end of the day.

No harm in trying to get this guy to correct his ways. What's the worse that can happen? He tells you to F off?

From the sounds of the previous posts, here I was thinking you were dealing with a millennial. Hopefully his hoarding isn't a product of getting older. Weird stuff happens with age.
 

finn

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My friend worked at a State Park, and he was talking about similar issues with people management. Parks have a tiny full time staff because of budget constraints, and the seasonal nature of the work. Staff mostl coordinates and supervises interns or seasonal workers, and pay is low, so, inevitably, some of the full timers are less than productive. From what I interpret, there’s only one person on staff empowered to deal with poor performers, and that’s the Park Superintendent. He does the hiring and firing.

If he’s not strong, poor performing individuals ride the gravy train for years, and there’s not a lot the lower level managers can do about it.

If he doesn’t honor simple requests, though, there’s no magic formula or system to make him responsible, which is frustrating to not only you, but the interns who end up doing his job, and cleaning up after him.

I think you should have a heart to heart talk with the Park Superintendent and your boss about the guy’s performance. Interns shouldn’t be cleaning out his truck. That’s his job, and he should be told that face to face, in no uncertain terms. Having interns clean up after him only enables unacceptable behavior.

You’re right that maintenance man isn’t a skilled position. You do need someone experienced though, as it’s illogical to expect interns to pick up that function since the turnover of seasonal employees, mostly college students, is so high.

Sounds like the real problem starts with the Superintendent, unless he’s oblivious to the problem.
 

ybnormal

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reading thru this whole thread, I've pretty much experienced all of it (except for being the lazy sht). I've been a state employee on a campus with a fulltime maintenance department and I've worked in Maintenance (years before). My job as IT manager interfaces with everyone on the campus from top to bottom, and I still ride herd on my 2 IT subordinates. I had 1 go-getter and 1 problem child.

Problem child did something that required me to 'counsel' him the next day, before I could do that the next day he did something else which I then had to write up and prepare to counsel him for both things the NEXT day. guess what happened on day 3? yet again. my boss supported me to the extent where we brought her boss in who 'supported' us. when it came time for all 4 of us to meet, also with the Chief Security Officer, he threw us under the bus. I was pissed, my boss was pissed, the CSO was pissed. and now, problem child became a REAL problem. He later filed a civil rights violation complaint against me, the investigation found MORE **** that he had illegally done. And we STILL COULDN'T FIRE HIM!

I know the OPs position and he's got his work cut out for him. As a state employee, and especially at his age, you can't ask certain questions ("planning on retiring?"). if you 've documented his failings, counseled him, and he still doesn't meet standards then either:
1) fire him for cause
2) put him on a Performance Improvement Plan with all the necessary documentation
3) start giving him all the **** jobs, and start inspecting all his work and documenting how it doesn't meet standards
4) assign him the cruddiest vehicle oldest wornout vehicle
5) buy one broom, one shovel, one ladder for each truck and bolt it in the bed. make them responsible for the equipment. if he only gets assigned specific jobs, he only needs tools for those jobs. he can keep them in his truck but still subject to surprise inspection and reimbursement to the state if they are missing. any other tools must be checked out, he can't go home until they are checked in. doesn't get paid after hours to find missing stuff that is his responsibility
6) to prevent him from crying about it, make it a standard department policy. sounds pretty obvious that no other employees will have a problem with this

you can either be a hard-*** or soft-pedal. you can see what soft-pedaling in the past has allowed to develop. your choice.
 

2ndGearRubber

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^

Same deal with lube techs man. You can be their friend and have them wade through 4 cars a day, or yell at them and ride their *** to get something done. Can't hang? Give 'em the boot ideally, life is too short for their ********. I work in a small shop like OPs situation so booting people is a pain because then you don't have bodies to fill a schedule.
 

ybnormal

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btw, there is another thread started today (I think) about tool organization at the Walmart Fleet Maintenance Facility. knowing how your situation differs from theirs I doubt it will apply, but go read up on it!
 

redwrench60

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We do not know how any of that part of it works.

I am an electrician. My contact clearly-ish defines what tools that I am to provide, and what the contractor is to supply. It also clearly defines what my tools are insured for.

So, if I need tools beyond my tool list, I have to grab those from a company tool gang box. Every day I am expected to borrow what I need, use it, and return it in good working condition. If a given tool is not in good working condition, I am expected to tell my foreman what is wrong.
Yeah every gig is a little different. But I bet you could drag up right now and have enough tools to go pick up another job wherever for whoever and not be screwed because all your capabilities got left behind in that company owned gang box.
 

Captain Spaulding

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Sore subject for me. When I worked, I was lead on a project where crews of 6 to 9 people travelled worldwide doing installations aboard ships. We used 6 Knaack boxes containing several tool sets, power tools, templates, specialty crimpers, saw blades, grinding wheels, welding and plasma cutting expendables, lights, extension cords etc.. More pallets with welders and plasma cutters. Many of the very specialized tools were in Pelican boxes organized for use in particular areas.

The installation took around 21-23 days if things went well. Every container had an inventory attached and every team lead was instructed to fully inventory the boxes upon completion, produce a list of broken or missing items and needed expendables and then ship the items to the next site. Two team leads were good about it, one being me, but the third just threw things into boxes and shipped it, which saved them a day. It could cost us days as we rooted through boxes trying to find special tools. Management never took any action. It got so bad we started delaying schedules so they had to ship everything home where we could clean up their mess before shipping it on to the next job. Cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars, much frustration and time away from our families.
 
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Kscardsfan

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Glad to see you are approaching this with maturity and sounds like you will make the right decision at the end of the day.

No harm in trying to get this guy to correct his ways. What's the worse that can happen? He tells you to F off?

From the sounds of the previous posts, here I was thinking you were dealing with a millennial. Hopefully his hoarding isn't a product of getting older. Weird stuff happens with age.
Actually my college student interns are pretty good hands. What they do or don’t do is usually based on ignorance from not growing up around dads and grandpas who worked with their hands and fixed things etc. I have a couple of farm kids who I can give a rough outline of what I need done and where it’s at and I can just turn them lose and it’s done. I’ve got one girl who stands 5’4 on the high end and is maybe 120 lbs soaking wet and she can run a chainsaw and drive a tractor as good or better than most grown men. I told her to clean all the carpentry tools out of the garage area and move them to the wood shop and she had it done in under an hour one day. I’d give a testicle for 3 of her on my crew.
 

Odd-job

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Actually my college student interns are pretty good hands. What they do or don’t do is usually based on ignorance from not growing up around dads and grandpas who worked with their hands and fixed things etc. I have a couple of farm kids who I can give a rough outline of what I need done and where it’s at and I can just turn them lose and it’s done. I’ve got one girl who stands 5’4 on the high end and is maybe 120 lbs soaking wet and she can run a chainsaw and drive a tractor as good or better than most grown men. I told her to clean all the carpentry tools out of the garage area and move them to the wood shop and she had it done in under an hour one day. I’d give a testicle for 3 of her on my crew.
Interns are great. They are always usually pretty motivated. Hopefully the Gen Zers can show what they are made of.
 
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Al Borland

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a locked tool cage in the shop where 1 person issues large shop tools and tracks where they are. Then a service truck minimum inventory where each tech is responsible for maintaining their inventory and must submit a written justification when requesting replacements. As long as the techs are locking their trucks and the tool crib is secure, a bad apple will have a hard time circumventing the system
We tried this. Problem was, they put one of the problem employees in the tool room. Self-important, lazy turd wouldn't log in tools, and insist you didn't return them, send out broken tools with repair tags still attached, etc. Got to the point i would personally bring power tools back and photograph each and every one sitting on the return desk. Then the ******** started with the batteries for cordless tools. "You returned the wrong batteries! Those aren't the right ones for that set!" Oh, really, a##hole? Where did i get them from?
 
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Kscardsfan

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We tried this. Problem was, they put one of the problem employees in the tool room. Self-important, lazy turd wouldn't log in tools, and insist you didn't return them, send out broken tools with repair tags still attached, etc. Got to the point i would personally bring power tools back and photograph each and every one sitting on the return desk. Then the ******** started with the batteries for cordless tools. "You returned the wrong batteries! Those aren't the right ones for that set!" Oh, really, a##hole? Where did i get them from?
That sounds terrible. Was it a government operation lol?
 

Al Borland

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No, private business. The guy was the pet of one of the higher-ups. The office really needed their noses rubbed in his incompetence before they would do anything about him.
 

BreeStephany

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Any real tradesman has their own tools. Doesn’t matter if it’s a plumber, electrician, HVAC, mechanic, body man, millwright or rod buster. They own and maintain their own personalized tool set. It shows they are serious and invested in their trade. The shop provides equipment, job specific specialty tools and shop supplies. If you have to provide a ratchet or a pair of Channellocks then there’s a problem.
I definitely agree with this! As an industrial / commercial electrician, I provide all my own hand tools and power tools on the job, with the exception of larger equipment like our triple nickel bender (555), tugger, 1/2" ~ 6" hydropunch set and ladders.

Our shop does provide apprentices with a basic power tool set (impact driver, 1/2" hammer drill and a metal cutting circular saw), and a 1/2" & 3/4" EMT hand bender to start with, but all hand tools are to be provided by the individual.
 

Ricky Joe

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I can solve your problem with one sentence: Have your employees supply their own tools. Even if you give them a small tool allowance, it is cheaper than replacing the missing tools, and the employee should be mature enough to be responsible. If not, let him go and hire someone who can step up to the plate. No more game playing.
 

MarkH

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I feel the hurt. We had to go through it as we grew.

We still provide the tools but had to make these changes.

We did put it in our employment contract we could charge the employee for tool losses. That did the most. We have seldom used it and pretty much write off the occasional tool. On our side someone from the family has to do regular inventories.

Our full time shop mechanics each got their own matching toolbox with keys. Any specialty tool is on a separate board that is detailed and labeled. The service trucks got keys for the tools. The person with the truck keys is responsible for the tools since the trucks are assigned for each day.

Both of these groups do watch the tools. Great groups of workers is all I can say. These are good quality tools. Usually industrial makes.

Any service tools on the machines are inventoried but not in the charge for loss group. We used to figure if anyone wanted an adjust a box or some other sludge covered tool they were welcome to it. We still have just some very basic cheap as we can get tools here. We do not monitor this loss. It is fairly insignificant.

All broken items have a return location and tag on it. That way we can warranty them if needed. Also prevents an inventory issue. lt also lets us know where we have quality issues with suppliers.

Took awareness went up for both management and employees. Once we started it losses dropped and care of items went up. It seemed like less breakage too. Our bill back for the last 15 years is somewhere around 150 dollars. So the workers do respect it. I think the losses we have replaced without bill back over that period of time were close to 200. So it has only been done in selective cases.
 

speed bump

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Where I work tools are all provided by the company and we really don't have that many issues with employees being dumb with them. Your problem is mostly a management problem. Set policies, post them, and then review them with the guys. If they aren't doing it right follow the escalation policy and they will either get it or you will be hiring someone new (which other than acquisition costs is often simpler). I work in a strong union plant and we almost never have an issue with people not cleaning and returning tools because of how our management operates.

Set the policy of no excess in the cab of a truck and give them an hour to clean out the cabs. Set a policy of all tools must be returned at the end of the day unless working on an emergency or continuing a project the next morning and set aside 15 minutes at the end of the day. If your guys can't figure out how to do a job, write a work procedure for that job. Organizing and labeling your tool crib also helps eliminate excuses because then it is both obvious where something goes and if it is missing (this is a good slow or cold day activity for your guys).
 

Captain Spaulding

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My grandpa’s shop bought tools for the mechanics. Some of it was big stuff for rail cars, but plenty of normal size stuff. If you needed a special tool, they’d buy it. If you needed to replace a broken or worn out tool, just turn in the old one and they’d get you a new one. If you needed a tool at home, you could borrow them. Once you hit a certain number of years, they were yours when you retired other than a few very large items. (My grandpa had a pair of 6ft shop made wrenches.)

But, you were fully responsible for them. If you lost one, it was replaced on your dime.

Nobody borrowed or loaned tools. There was no need.

Seemed it worked well and took all of the worry and responsibility about theft away from the shop.

They’d usually shadow box their drawers with pine boards carved with tool spots and soaked in machine oil.
 

Gurp

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I work in industrial maintenance. Each crew has their own box plus me with me own box for preventative maintenance.
Basically the shops buys us what we need/want within reason and we maintain it. So if he ends up with all his tools in his truck and unable to complete a job. It's the crescent wrench. He will screw himself when he's running out of tools and no one will loan him anything.
Self accountability with discipline for failure to do so.
 

Al Borland

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Unfortunately, my office insists that they supply the tools. I've learned to treat wrench sets, socket sets, screwdrivers, hammers, prybars, etc. as disposable, single-use items - expendables. So, buy the "good enough" tools, paint them funny colors, and enjoy the show.
 

JradM

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I'm not going to get into any HR advice. I think the best thing you could do is to organize - i.e. make sure each tool has a specific place it belongs so it is possible to inventory.

You mentioned having trouble finding sockets and combination wrenches - do they have trays? Peg trays for sockets should help - so long as they actually hold the tools you have (e.g. it might make your goals harder to achieve if you've got duplicate sockets trying to fit on one peg or empty pegs for sizes you don't use, etc - then you can't "see at a glance" if things are where they belong).

Combination wrenches need trays too. If they're being used away from the main tool box, consider Ernst gripper racks. That way your workers can take a set with them and keep everything together.

In an environment like you describe, I think you might need to go a bit overboard with the organization to keep things under control. e.g. it might not be enough to have a ratchet drawer - you might need holders for each ratchet so, again, you can see when one is missing. It also helps if someone tries to put something where it doesn't belong.

While foam would be great in many respects, I don't think it would work for you. It is expensive and time consuming. I'd suggest off-the-shelf products so you can adapt for new tool additions or reorganize if your first setup doesn't work. Unless you have time to shop around and compare, I suggest you just stick with stuff from Ernst (or Tekton or Gray, they sell rebranded Ernst). E.g. the Ernst screwdriver racks are another great way to make each tool have a specific spot - open place in the rack means a tool wasn't replaced. Same thing for their plier racks.

It's not like Ernst is the only good option, but it's relatively inexpensive, adaptable, durable, etc. I use a lot of their products in my home shop specifically because I also want my tools to have specific places they belong so I can tell when something is missing.

You also mentioned a new tool box - great, I bet some of the organization problem relates to a lack of space too. That's when things just start getting tossed in drawers - it makes the most stuff fit. Label the drawers on the new tool box too - even if it's just with a paint pen. Make it obvious where everything belongs. Size your organizer trays to fit the tool box - that way there limited surplus space where random stuff can accumulate.

Any chance you can involve the offender with the reorganization project? I understand he may not be the best candidate for this type of work, but if he organized something it might make him have a stake in making sure it stays organized. I know it annoys me when I spend hours making custom-fit wood trays for my pliers and other tools only to find my wife has taken a pair out and failed to put them back.

Don't forget to have some extra space too - it's doubtful you can truly account for everything, so you need a spot stuff that doesn't belong can go.

Can you make "inventory check" a part of the regular work day? I know I'm often guilty of not doing much the last 10-15 minutes of the day - it feels like I don't have enough time to bother starting a "project". Maybe it can be routine to open the drawers and account for anything missing.
 

finn

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Sounds like many of you are equating a State Park maintenance man with a skilled machine repairman in an industrial setting of a Fortune 500 company. It’s one guy, not a crew of skilled technicians.

Like the op said, typical duties in a State Park setting would include keeping the water running in the bath house, maybe changing the blades or airing up the tires on the mowers, and patching up the abs body on the side x side when the intern ran it into a tree. Maybe a battery here and there, replacing a few door locks, a little raking and shoveling.

Facilities like that contract out the heavy work. They don’t have employees with skill sets (and apparently motivation) to do the heavy lifting.

A simple Craftsman homeowner tool set, a few pipe wrenches, box store screwdriver and plier sets, and a fence nailer, along with a drill, driver, and bits would suffice.

The issue is that the guy doesn’t keep track of his tools, and is a slob.

This isn’t a tool issue, it’s entirely a personal management issue. The most elaborate processes and procedures in the world won’t take care of lost or missing tools unless the guy understands he’s accountable and is held to that accountability.

Refusing to clean up your truck is insubordination, and then assigning interns to do it is enabling.
 
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Kscardsfan

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Sounds like many of you are equating a State Park maintenance man with a skilled machine repairman in an industrial setting of a Fortune 500 company. It’s one guy, not a crew of skilled technicians.

Like the op said, typical duties in a State Park setting would include keeping the water running in the bath house, maybe changing the blades or airing up the tires on the mowers, and patching up the abs body on the side x side when the intern ran it into a tree. Maybe a battery here and there, replacing a few door locks, a little raking and shoveling.

Facilities like that contract out the heavy work. They don’t have employees with skill sets (and apparently motivation) to do the heavy lifting.

A simple Craftsman homeowner tool set, a few pipe wrenches, box store screwdriver and plier sets, and a fence nailer, along with a drill, driver, and bits would suffice.

The issue is that the guy doesn’t keep track of his tools, and is a slob.

This isn’t a tool issue, it’s entirely a personal management issue. The most elaborate processes and procedures in the world won’t take care of lost or missing tools unless the guy understands he’s accountable and is held to that accountability.

Refusing to clean up your truck is insubordination, and then assigning interns to do it is enabling.
Part of it is, depending on the day and needs of the park, I might be a maintenance guy as well as manager, tour guide, and cop. So I want the tools organized and proper for my own benefit and sanity as well. But you nailed it. We farm out the heavy duty stuff in a lot of cases. A lot of our work is PM or repair stuff.
 

RedneckWelder

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Just lock the box. Done. Retard the shovel hoarder can find his own. Eventually his output will drop so low due to disorganization he will be rendered useless or fired.

Does not work in government service and he will probably be promoted in fact (the turds always float

I’ve been in the exact same spot as the OP. Those who get **** done are underpaid as hell those who coast are overpaid and everybody’s equal in the eyes of the higher ups, unless you are one of the protected class then you are eligible for rapid promotion.
 
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Kscardsfan

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Apr 28, 2020
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1,650
Location
The Little Apple
and patching up the abs body on the side x side when the intern ran it into a tree. Maybe a battery here and there, replacing a few door locks, a little raking and shoveling.
body damage isn’t critical enough to get fixed unless it’s a safety issue lol.
Refusing to clean up your truck is insubordination, and then assigning interns to do it is enabling.
To be fair, I had them clean the bench for my own well being. The fact it’s pretty much the definition of enabling never crossed my mind.
 
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