Tool warrantys meen nothing!

[SilverBulletZ06]

Don't buy channellock? To me most of the channel lock stuff is garbage in the first place USA made or not.. Knipex, Snap on (non channellock rebranded stuff) and even some of my sunnex and gearwrench pliers are 10x better than anything channellock I've used..

Try the new top tier brand from HF (Doyle?). It wasn't quite as nice as a SO in finish or smoothness but the SO pliers vs HF pliers felt very similar and had the same results.

 

[Handyandy23]

That was the last ChannelFak tool I bought and will the be last..end of story.

I think just to clarify the original post that you quoted, the key phrase was "tools from a quality company that manufactured it themselves" (or something to that effect). Channellock doesn't make sockets or ratchets and those sets are sold at very low prices. On one hand they are clearly trying to take advantage of the name, but on the other hand you have to be smart about what you're buying.

The quality of some outsourced Chinese socket sets that are rebranded don't really give any induction to the quality of their pliers made in-house. Personally I wouldn't even look at Channellock branded ratchets, the same as I wouldn't buy a cordless drill branded by Kawasaki or the Hyundai branded air compressors at Walmart. Doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a Kawasaki bike though. But everyone is free to decide how to spend their money.

 

[sberry]

I was trying to post a copy of the butthurt report.

 

[bushmechanic]

I think just to clarify the original post that you quoted, the key phrase was "tools from a quality company that manufactured it themselves" (or something to that effect). Channellock doesn't make sockets or ratchets and those sets are sold at very low prices. On one hand they are clearly trying to take advantage of the name, but on the other hand you have to be smart about what you're buying.

The quality of some outsourced Chinese socket sets that are rebranded don't really give any induction to the quality of their pliers made in-house. Personally I wouldn't even look at Channellock branded ratchets, the same as I wouldn't buy a cordless drill branded by Kawasaki or the Hyundai branded air compressors at Walmart. Doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a Kawasaki bike though. But everyone is free to decide how to spend their money.

A number of years ago I was at Sam's Club, and saw one of those privately labeled Channellock cart/tool kit combo packages. What I use for a garage is actually a little too short to get from one side of a car to the other without going outside.

I figured for $200 all told, it would be nice to have a mostly full set of common sockets and wrenches on both sides of the garage. No more walking all the way around and tripping over stuff.

I've still got those things, and not one has ever broken. The drawer/cart/work surface thing hasn't had issues, either.

Sure, the wrenches seem to be perpetually too short, and the sockets don't fit quite the same as higher rent units, but that's all to be expected. I'd put them on par with imported Craftsman or similar.

I've never been the biggest fan of their pliars, but that's less to do with objective quality in use and more to do with... I don't know. Something about they way they're ground just turns me off.

Could be the fact that I got my mitts on Knipex and they spoiled me.

 

[finn]

Did I say Chinese people couldn't do stuff? No, I didn't.

Did I say their government couldn't do stuff? No, I didn't.

Do I need to specifically state that many Chinese factories were planted like weeds and raised in a government-hamstrung environment that encourages and even mandates mass export versus internal innovation and quality, and as a result are entirely unable of equal competition without foreign investment, because of the way the place is run?

Do I need to specifically state that in order to get things done properly there, you've got to show the government that you're willing to bend over and play ball, demonstrate how it's going to encourage and retain their power structure, or simply be big enough that they can't afford to say no?

I mean, how specific to I need to be before you people stop shoving words in my mouth?

I work directly with several factories in China, I've arranged consultation in language, organization, and production; developed technology for them, secured shipments of antiquities through exhaustive negotiation and padding within their power structure for museum exhibits, and have even had several products designed, produced, branded, and distributed as private labels... ENTIRELY in China!

So, you can take your attitude and shove it; along with your other cronies that want to start the "let's make someone defend the obvious, and then pick apart and demand irrelevant details" argument.

That **** doesn't fly with me. You don't get away with trying to put things in my mouth just because you've got a handful of people here who will bow to the exercise, and then invariably claim you didn't bring the first bad attitude to the table, which you were and potentially still are intending to do.

You stick your hands in my mouth, and I'll bite your damned fingers off and swallow them.

If you wanted to ask a question, you should have politely asked. You didn't want to, though.

Better get back on your meds.

 

[eschoendorff]

Did I say Chinese people couldn't do stuff? No, I didn't.

Did I say their government couldn't do stuff? No, I didn't.

Do I need to specifically state that many Chinese factories were planted like weeds and raised in a government-hamstrung environment that encourages and even mandates mass export versus internal innovation and quality, and as a result are entirely unable of equal competition without foreign investment, because of the way the place is run?

Do I need to specifically state that in order to get things done properly there, you've got to show the government that you're willing to bend over and play ball, demonstrate how it's going to encourage and retain their power structure, or simply be big enough that they can't afford to say no?

I mean, how specific to I need to be before you people stop shoving words in my mouth?

I work directly with several factories in China, I've arranged consultation in language, organization, and production; developed technology for them, secured shipments of antiquities through exhaustive negotiation and padding within their power structure for museum exhibits, and have even had several products designed, produced, branded, and distributed as private labels... ENTIRELY in China!

So, you can take your attitude and shove it; along with your other cronies that want to start the "let's make someone defend the obvious, and then pick apart and demand irrelevant details" argument.

That **** doesn't fly with me. You don't get away with trying to put things in my mouth just because you've got a handful of people here who will bow to the exercise, and then invariably claim you didn't bring the first bad attitude to the table, which you were and potentially still are intending to do.

You stick your hands in my mouth, and I'll bite your damned fingers off and swallow them.

If you wanted to ask a question, you should have politely asked. You didn't want to, though.

Wow... unhinged much? This kind of spew is the sort of thing that makes people tune you out and undercuts any of your opinions.

 

[bushmechanic]

Wow... unhinged much? This kind of spew is the sort of thing that makes people tune you out and undercuts any of your opinions.

Those aren't opinions. They are facts. I won't be accused of stereotyping unwarranted without a response. Anyone with half a brain can see the intent of my original post, and they can see his response.

I know what happens, here. I can spot that **** a mile away.

You'll find I'm quite friendly, polite, and informative if you take the time to ask a question politely instead of calling me a liar, essentially calling me a bigot, or simply trying to give me a headache with that stupid argument technique some use, here.

I don't have any trouble anywhere else. Only on GJ, and only when certain members try their nonsense or fail to read and comprehend.

Perfectly happy to play nice; but not in that situation. He got his explanation, and he got a bit of a rant he damned well earned. If he wants to cease his accusatory nonsense, we're cool.

If he doesn't, that's fine. I don't have to help people understand anything. I enjoy it, but it does me no good personally. If you bite the hand instead of asking nicely, it's withdrawn for a back-hand immediately. I don't have time for people like that.

I would never accuse someone of what people jump to immediately, here. Not in a million years. That's crossing a line.

 

[dogdog]

I think just to clarify the original post that you quoted, the key phrase was "tools from a quality company that manufactured it themselves" (or something to that effect). Channellock doesn't make sockets or ratchets and those sets are sold at very low prices. On one hand they are clearly trying to take advantage of the name, but on the other hand you have to be smart about what you're buying.

The quality of some outsourced Chinese socket sets that are rebranded don't really give any induction to the quality of their pliers made in-house. Personally I wouldn't even look at Channellock branded ratchets, the same as I wouldn't buy a cordless drill branded by Kawasaki or the Hyundai branded air compressors at Walmart. Doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a Kawasaki bike though. But everyone is free to decide how to spend their money.

Totally agree about the rebrand, **** baby... here is the kicker, if you sold/licensed the tool under your brand name, and offered a step child warranty services to it... yet advertise all over with quality and warranty behind the name.... that is sort of misleading especially a pisser when the customer services sucked when called... it's same thing with Ridgid tool warranty... as well not just them...

Just saying... when there are no other tool choices, I can't do anything but **** it up, and deal with it... but when there are choices, then I'll be dam sure this company brand won't be the first on my list to buy from... these days a lot of choices to offer... and I am buying tool that fits my needs and budget that I can afford... long term/short term intentions....Not COO... sort of like some one stick you the middle finger the first time yet you go back again.... well hope you enjoy it, I won't be going back for a while.

you know the variation of that saying... fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice... shame on me...

now back to the scheduled programming...

The scenerio is a bit different...

OP asked if he bought an older socket of a brand x that offers life time warranty or what not warranty... the company switched COO for the same tool, he fell that the quality is downgraded because of COO when he/she has to warranty for the same tool, which they replace with one from a different COO..... ? not sure the logisc or if that even make sense... pretty sure I interpreted right... COO does not indicated bad quality or good quality of a tool... if this is not stereotyping, then it'll be definitely some stigmatized view of those COO stuff form the 99 Cent stores...

 

[eschoendorff]

Those aren't opinions. They are facts. I won't be accused of stereotyping unwarranted without a response. Anyone with half a brain can see the intent of my original post, and they can see his response.

I know what happens, here. I can spot that **** a mile away.

You'll find I'm quite friendly, polite, and informative if you take the time to ask a question politely instead of calling me a liar, essentially calling me a bigot, or simply trying to give me a headache with that stupid argument technique some use, here.

I don't have any trouble anywhere else. Only on GJ, and only when certain members try their nonsense or fail to read and comprehend.

Perfectly happy to play nice; but not in that situation. He got his explanation, and he got a bit of a rant he damned well earned. If he wants to cease his accusatory nonsense, we're cool.

If he doesn't, that's fine. I don't have to help people understand anything. I enjoy it, but it does me no good personally. If you bite the hand instead of asking nicely, it's withdrawn for a back-hand immediately. I don't have time for people like that.

I would never accuse someone of what people jump to immediately, here. Not in a million years. That's crossing a line.

So as long as we play by your rules everything is fine?

I’m not loving the tone of your posts. You’ve presented things as facts but have we have nothing but your anecdotal word to use as evidence of your “facts.”

When someone has a differing view you get your ******* in a wad and come off confrontational. It wasn’t necessary but YOU escalated that. Maybe take it down a notch?

 

[dogdog]

you guys make a perfect example for the topic in this thread ....

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=419091

 

[bushmechanic]

Totally agree about the rebrand, **** baby... here is the kicker, if you sold/licensed the tool under your brand name, and offered a step child warranty services to it... yet advertise all over with quality and warranty behind the name.... that is sort of misleading especially a pisser when the customer services sucked when called... it's same thing with Ridgid tool warranty... as well not just them...

Just saying... when there are no other tool choices, I can't do anything but **** it up, and deal with it... but when there are choices, then I'll be dam sure this company brand won't be the first on my list to buy from... these days a lot of choices to offer... and I am buying tool that fits my needs and budget that I can afford... long term/short term intentions....Not COO... sort of like some one stick you the middle finger the first time yet you go back again.... well hope you enjoy it, I won't be going back for a while.

you know the variation of that saying... fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice... shame on me...

now back to the scheduled programming...

The scenerio is a bit different...

OP asked if he bought an older socket of a brand x that offers life time warranty or what not warranty... the company switched COO for the same tool, he fell that the quality is downgraded because of COO when he/she has to warranty for the same tool, which they replace with one from a different COO..... ? not sure the logisc or if that even make sense... pretty sure I interpreted right... COO does not indicated bad quality or good quality of a tool... if this is not stereotyping, then it'll be definitely some stigmatized view of those COO stuff form the 99 Cent stores...

I honestly haven't found anything aside from text on packaging and the website saying the tool will be "replaced". Nowhere am I seeing any indication that they warrant the replacement will be the same tool.

Indeed, it could be argued that the only text I've found actually allows them to replace a ratchet with a screwdriver. Of course, there would be other factors in play, but I haven't found anything else.

There has to be full text somewhere. Anyone seen it?

If that's all there is, though, they're clean. The language doesn't indicate you will receive the same tool, or even an equivalent tool.

 

[bushmechanic]

So as long as we play by your rules everything is fine?

I’m not loving the tone of your posts. You’ve presented things as facts but have we have nothing but your anecdotal word to use as evidence of your “facts.”

When someone has a differing view you get your ******* in a wad and come off confrontational. It wasn’t necessary but YOU escalated that. Maybe take it down a notch?

Near everything on this site is anecdotal word. There is no difference between my initial post and those that make the rest of the gears turn.

If someone wants a little more detail to understand the foundation of my position, they can politely ask, instead of suggesting I'm a bigot; which is what that person did immediately.

By singling me out, they've shown that this place can be an echo chamber, where only accepted contentions are entertained. My post was well written and benign. I was simply stating a fact.

Yes, I escalated the confrontation after it began. I do not apologize, and I'd do it again in the same manner, using the same words, the same tone, and I'd do it in person, as well. Right in front of him.

You can call me a lot of things, but a liar and a bigot won't end well for you.

Those aren't just words; they are character assassination, and any attempt to further the discussion from that point would result in your post, which happened anyway; stating that any experience I can use to found my contention is irrelevant because it comes from me.

He never wanted to learn. He never wanted to know the truth, and apparently neither do you. Nothing I provide will be sufficient to move the conversation along politely. You will never accept evidence of any sort without dragging me down a pointless rabbit hole.

So, I skipped the nonsense and went straight to the end result that he intended the second he posted that reply.

As I said: I don't feel bad at all about it, and I'll happily enjoy my pizza in the knowledge that I, at the very least, stood up for my own principals of honesty and inclusion.

If I'm more aggressive than most in that situation, so be it. You only get that side of me when you earn it.

 

[eschoendorff]

Near everything on this site is anecdotal word. There is no difference between my initial post and those that make the rest of the gears turn.

If someone wants a little more detail to understand the foundation of my position, they can politely ask, instead of suggesting I'm a bigot; which is what that person did immediately.

By singling me out, they've shown that this place can be an echo chamber, where only accepted contentions are entertained. My post was well written and benign. I was simply stating a fact.

Yes, I escalated the confrontation after it began. I do not apologize, and I'd do it again in the same manner, using the same words, the same tone, and I'd do it in person, as well. Right in front of him.

You can call me a lot of things, but a liar and a bigot won't end well for you.

Those aren't just words; they are character assassination, and any attempt to further the discussion from that point would result in your post, which happened anyway; stating that any experience I can use to found my contention is irrelevant because it comes from me.

He never wanted to learn. He never wanted to know the truth, and apparently neither do you. Nothing I provide will be sufficient to move the conversation along politely. You will never accept evidence of any sort without dragging me down a pointless rabbit hole.

So, I skipped the nonsense and went straight to the end result that he intended the second he posted that reply.

As I said: I don't feel bad at all about it, and I'll happily enjoy my pizza in the knowledge that I, at the very least, stood up for my own principals of honesty and inclusion.

If I'm more aggressive than most in that situation, so be it. You only get that side of me when you earn it.

Wow. Just... wow. You’re definitely a legend in your own mind. An internet badass with something to prove, lol. Be careful; that chip on your shoulder betrays your intentions.

In any case I’m done. You go on with your bad self.

 

[bushmechanic]

Wow. Just... wow. You’re definitely a legend in your own mind. An internet badass with something to prove, lol. Be careful; that chip on your shoulder betrays your intentions.

In any case I’m done. You go on with your bad self.

Proved me right. Have a nice day.

 

[crewchief888]

Worry about a wrench worth a dollar or 2? IF,,,, it breaks.

exactly..

warranty is far down on the list of priorities when it comes to anything i purchase

 

[TNT Autowerkz]

I happen to be in Autozone the other day picking up a part that a customer that I'm painting a truck for had ordered. As they were busy and had many customers in front of me I decided to look at the hand tools, I got to noticing the the Duralast Taiwan made tools were few but the same name tools made in china was many. So I finally got to get the part I needed and asked about the tools thing, I was told that Autozone Is going to have their tools made in china now rather than Taiwan. So on my drive back to the garage I got to thinking If Taiwan is the better tool out of the two and every manufacture switches production to China then a warranty of any kind is null. Here's why If I buy a Taiwan tool and it breaks some time down the road and I take it in for exchange then I'm going to get a China made tool, It's not of the same quality as the one I bought, So why not just buy China to began with then the exchange quality would be the same as my old tool. Any thoughts!

Seems there is a bit of confusion over my original post, I didn't buy any tools there was just waiting on a part that I was to pick up that was ordered by a customer. But lets say I have and use a tool made in the USA (which I do) and it for some reason it breaks and I go to exchange it but now I get a Chinese made counterpart, This is not what I paid for, It's not what I originally bought, It tells the company that I am fine with outsourcing. For example, If I drive a Ford and need warranty work I take it to Ford to have FORD OEM parts put on, not some third party part. If I buy a USA made tool and need exchange from the warranty that the company advertises then I should get the same exact quality part, A USA made tool in return!

 

[dogdog]

Seems there is a bit of confusion over my original post, I didn't buy any tools there was just waiting on a part that I was to pick up that was ordered by a customer. But lets say I have and use a tool made in the USA (which I do) and it for some reason it breaks and I go to exchange it but now I get a Chinese made counterpart, This is not what I paid for, It's not what I originally bought, It tells the company that I am fine with outsourcing. For example, If I drive a Ford and need warranty work I take it to Ford to have FORD OEM parts put on, not some third party part. If I buy a USA made tool and need exchange from the warranty that the company advertises then I should get the same exact quality part, A USA made tool in return!

I think this type of discussion have been discussed and beaten to death here... you can search it, basically when the craftsman COO the ratchets wrench etc...


anyways your analogy is probably a bit twisting... If your Ford car needs warranty repair, and lets say, they replaced the Ford parts that happens to be from a different COO because they have been outsourced, but it is the same authorized factory part that meets or exceeds fords requirements... when the PART fails do you blame ford or the coo...(. or you ask FORD WTF) ... and remember the same original part had also failed .....

Your assumption and big assumption is that because of the COO, it's quality is automatically bad... ? Judge the tool by it's uses not by the COO... I am not saying the new wrench / ratchet will be better or worse... just saying Quality is not COO, and your warranty item is still from "FORD" or what not company...regardless of the COO, still a factory part that gets replaced...

Just don't be that guy with the HF 20T press, abused it and posted on the internet with some shady pics complaining about COO quality, hiding behind the "Safety" issue.. thinking every one is a born Sucker/Fool....

Are there cases where they have gone outsource to a different COO or rebrand/ relabel/ Licensed merchandies like the channelfak case with their ratchet I mentioned, Do I think it is a problem with COO, NO... dam sure I held the company responsible and do what I can not to buy from them, because the tool is under their BRAND.... well in my case it was POS tool with bad warranty services...


In other word be reasonable.

 

[WittHay]

I wouldn't worry about part store tool COO too much. The mechanics tools are a small part of their sales and their tool sources change over the years. Will their be a Taiwan sourced Napa Carlyle 10 or even 5 years from now? The warranty will always be there just not the exact same tool.

Around here, Jet Tools is the most common brand in parts stores and the COO is not mentioned anywhere. I am assuming pliers are made in China and sockets are Taiwan made but dont know for sure. They are still decent tools.

 

[toolmutt]

Your only option is to buy a USA Made Bridgeport mill, a Hardinge lathe, source good ol' American steel and start manufacturing your own hand tools. Then you can thumb your nose at those "doctors" and big government EPA and start chrome plating in your garage. I suppose you could look for a surplus drop forge on auction but I'm trying to keep things cost effective...

THEN you'll know exactly who is making your tools and what sort of quality they put out.

You wouldn't need to mess with chroming or the EPA. Just a simple spritz of Krylon or something. If it rusts too badly, send it back to the manufacturer for replacement. Of course this would depend on his warranty policy.

 

[bushmechanic]

Seems there is a bit of confusion over my original post, I didn't buy any tools there was just waiting on a part that I was to pick up that was ordered by a customer. But lets say I have and use a tool made in the USA (which I do) and it for some reason it breaks and I go to exchange it but now I get a Chinese made counterpart, This is not what I paid for, It's not what I originally bought, It tells the company that I am fine with outsourcing. For example, If I drive a Ford and need warranty work I take it to Ford to have FORD OEM parts put on, not some third party part. If I buy a USA made tool and need exchange from the warranty that the company advertises then I should get the same exact quality part, A USA made tool in return!

I understand, but as noted, I can find no text obligating them to provide you with the same product.

They simply say it will be replaced.

 

[finn]

I understand, but as noted, I can find no text obligating them to provide you with the same product.

They simply say it will be replaced.

Chances are that the part Ford supplies will be a reman, not a new part, if it’s a major component like an engine, transmission, alternator, etc.

Also, they are under no obligation to provide a replacement part from the vendor that was the production source when the car was built.

Ford and all of their competitors have hundreds of buyers and engineers working on re sourcing parts every day. They won’t keep buying service parts from a non current supplier if new can replace old.

 

[bushmechanic]

Chances are that the part Ford supplies will be a reman, not a new part, if it’s a major component like an engine, transmission, alternator, etc.

Also, they are under no obligation to provide a replacement part from the vendor that was the production source when the car was built.

Ford and all of their competitors have hundreds of buyers and engineers working on re sourcing parts every day. They won’t keep buying service parts from a non current supplier if new can replace old.

I was just talking about the Duralast warranty.

I'm sure Ford's is actually supported by plenty of paperwork that explains whatever limitations are required. I couldn't easily find anything detailing warranty practices in relation to Duralast tools, though.

 

[anndel]

Things can be made in China that are 'a little better' - it just depends if the vendor is willing to pay for it

iPhones and DJI Drones are just a couple of examples

Ditto

 

[anndel]

I happen to be in Autozone the other day picking up a part that a customer that I'm painting a truck for had ordered. As they were busy and had many customers in front of me I decided to look at the hand tools, I got to noticing the the Duralast Taiwan made tools were few but the same name tools made in china was many. So I finally got to get the part I needed and asked about the tools thing, I was told that Autozone Is going to have their tools made in china now rather than Taiwan. So on my drive back to the garage I got to thinking If Taiwan is the better tool out of the two and every manufacture switches production to China then a warranty of any kind is null. Here's why If I buy a Taiwan tool and it breaks some time down the road and I take it in for exchange then I'm going to get a China made tool, It's not of the same quality as the one I bought, So why not just buy China to began with then the exchange quality would be the same as my old tool. Any thoughts!

It's like when i tried to warranty an old Craftsman Pearl Shaped 1/2" ratchet about 15 years ago. I went to Sears and the guy that was there who did repairs retired and wasn't replaced. The clerk tried to give me a china made replacement. I ended up buying a repair kit from Ebay.

 

[Handyandy23]

The problem with this line of thinking is that there is some kind of assumption that the same product you bought is going to continue to be made forever. As we've seen with Craftsman that is rarely the case. Not only did they do the switch from US-made tools to China, they then went out of business (I know C-man name lives on for now), basically leaving the warranty behind (unless Lowe's will start warranting older stuff). I don't think it's reasonable to buy some no-name ratchet for peanuts from the parts store and expect that you can go back 10+ years later and they'll still be stocking the same ratchet for you to exchange.

Also just to anecdotally weigh in on this COO stuff, I also work with Chinese suppliers (and many suppliers from all over the world) in the auto industry, and I can say in my experience there are good and bad suppliers everywhere. In fact, some of the worst vendors we have are right in Canada and the US. The Chinese might operate a little differently than us, but the part quality coming out of China is very good in my line of work. They are also very hard working, almost to a fault - they are 12 hours time difference from us, and I'll get e-mails and follow up from them during my work day, which is the the middle of the night there.

What it really comes down to is the specifications and QC standards of the parent company. The parts I deal in are spec'ed by the OEM, and these vendors build to those specs. If a ratchet is a piece of junk it's because the machining tolerances or materials spec'ed out are poor. It doesn't matter if it's assembled in China or the US or the moon.

 

[finn]

That was my experience working for a $15 billion dollar company that globally sourced components and materials. I had many Chinese expats on staff and found them both smart and resourceful.

Several returned to China and are successful entrepreneurs. Others are technical leaders at large US corporations.

I’m retired now, but my son works for a $55 Billion dollar US based company that sources, manufactures, and sells globally. Last I knew, he had traveled to China 29 times...his comment mirrors the above: give them a problem to work on before you go home at night and they will have a solution in your inbox when you turn the computer on in the morning.

Many of their highly intricate hydraulic control parts, as well as large, highly sophisticated earth moving machines are made in China.

 

[bushmechanic]

They're quick to get something done, that much is certain.

The problems you run into is when a Chinese company tries to break out on it's own, without playing ball with regional players. A fair chunk of the above examples directly involve large, international investments and contracts.

They get front-line access to top binned materials, government breaks, subsidies, and other aid. Labor is shoved in their direction, and factory cities displace subsistence farming to ensure the supply. Much is overlooked in the name of productivity.

The guys just trying to innovate on their own get the dregs, and IP is forced to be passed back and forth (rather like a US defense procurement operation), and they end up supplying those larger entities in droves; betting on that last penny. It's one of the reasons they don't worry too much about who actually owns IP.

It's not that they are incapable of great work. They exist in an environment that prevents them from reaching their manufacturing potential. Here, you can just buy the good stuff. It's not the case over there, once you step just outside the shiny parts of the cities supported by investment.

If they're not on the good list, they are playing 14th fiddle to the people who are. If I own a shop, and you own a shop, we can both order NAPA parts.

There, if I own a small shop, and you own a shop that was founded in part by regional government, in part by manufacturing alliances, and in part by foreign investors, you're getting the NAPA parts, and now it's my job to replicate them, whether I like it or not. I won't get the same backup, and that's a very big deal.

It's easy to look at a large operations making auto, electronic, or aviation parts for foreign companies and think everything is fine, and they can all beat the game and make the good stuff. That's just not the case, though.

Without that support, their environment just plain bolts a quality ceiling over their head, and they have little choice but to play the same game of ball with a broken bat, if they want access to all those manufacturing, import, and export benefits.

 

[bushmechanic]

What ***** is those very wholly owned, private Chinese companies go out of their way in customer service. They know they can't get everything right in their situation, and they bend over backwards to help customers.

I don't care if it's a $.12 part; you'll have a replacement with free shipping within two weeks, generally. You'll also receive a gift quite often, and a personalized, hand-written letter of gratitude.

These are the guys that could compete, and should be allowed to compete, but they just don't have that international clout; so they're all but black-balled.

What people think happens here is what happens there every day.

 

[Handyandy23]

The other thing I forgot to add was that sometimes these policies actually advantage the buyer. For example, Canadian Tire has their Maximum line and the hand tools are lifetime warranty. CT doesn't manufacture their own tools, they just rebrand other stuff. Every once in a while they seem to change vendors and "upgrade" to try and re-market the tools.

Recently they made a switch with their Maximum line ratchets from, I believe, 72T that were kind of clunky, to newer 90T designs. So if you have a 10 year old Maximum ratchet that breaks you will get a replacement that's actually better than the original.

I'm sure this isn't often the case, and the CT stuff has always been overseas stuff, but it can go both ways when buying cheaper stuff.

 

[jacked_72]

I think the OP's title about sums it up. In other words, if you're buying a product for the "lifetime" warranty, you most likely will be disappointed when you go to use it -- the company will be out of business or the replacement wont be of the quality you were expecting. So don't buy a tool for the warranty.

 

[TNT Autowerkz]

I think the OP's title about sums it up. In other words, if you're buying a product for the "lifetime" warranty, you most likely will be disappointed when you go to use it -- the company will be out of business or the replacement wont be of the quality you were expecting. So don't buy a tool for the warranty.

100% My line of thinking, Tool warranty's mean nothing and should'nt be a factor when buying tools, I buy and use USA made tools as much as I can, in fact I just got some in the other day. I am American from a veteran family I want to support American folks and workers, I have no problem with other countrys nor their peoples. But If I buy American and by some off chance need warranty I feel that I should get American in return! This is the only way the said warranty would be and can be 100% legit!

I can see a change in manufacture to upgrade quality or something, but far too many times company's move production or what not to raise the bottom dollar there is no other reason for them to move production to a offshore plant.

I welded for many many years and done paint and body work for years also. I can tell you first hand that the metals and alloys from these offshore and third world communist countrys is subpar! It doesnt mater if something is made to a company's spec's and/or tolerances, or if they claim to have something designed here then built elsewhere, if the building material is subpar so will be the part produced! Just my two cents!

 

[Tallpilot]

The problem with this line of thinking is that there is some kind of assumption that the same product you bought is going to continue to be made forever. As we've seen with Craftsman that is rarely the case. Not only did they do the switch from US-made tools to China, they then went out of business (I know C-man name lives on for now), basically leaving the warranty behind (unless Lowe's will start warranting older stuff). I don't think it's reasonable to buy some no-name ratchet for peanuts from the parts store and expect that you can go back 10+ years later and they'll still be stocking the same ratchet for you to exchange.

Also just to anecdotally weigh in on this COO stuff, I also work with Chinese suppliers (and many suppliers from all over the world) in the auto industry, and I can say in my experience there are good and bad suppliers everywhere. In fact, some of the worst vendors we have are right in Canada and the US. The Chinese might operate a little differently than us, but the part quality coming out of China is very good in my line of work. They are also very hard working, almost to a fault - they are 12 hours time difference from us, and I'll get e-mails and follow up from them during my work day, which is the the middle of the night there.

What it really comes down to is the specifications and QC standards of the parent company. The parts I deal in are spec'ed by the OEM, and these vendors build to those specs. If a ratchet is a piece of junk it's because the machining tolerances or materials spec'ed out are poor. It doesn't matter if it's assembled in China or the US or the moon.

The other thing I forgot to add was that sometimes these policies actually advantage the buyer. For example, Canadian Tire has their Maximum line and the hand tools are lifetime warranty. CT doesn't manufacture their own tools, they just rebrand other stuff. Every once in a while they seem to change vendors and "upgrade" to try and re-market the tools.

Recently they made a switch with their Maximum line ratchets from, I believe, 72T that were kind of clunky, to newer 90T designs. So if you have a 10 year old Maximum ratchet that breaks you will get a replacement that's actually better than the original.

I'm sure this isn't often the case, and the CT stuff has always been overseas stuff, but it can go both ways when buying cheaper stuff.

100% My line of thinking, Tool warranty's mean nothing and should'nt be a factor when buying tools, I buy and use USA made tools as much as I can, in fact I just got some in the other day. I am American from a veteran family I want to support American folks and workers, I have no problem with other countrys nor their peoples. But If I buy American and by some off chance need warranty I feel that I should get American in return! This is the only way the said warranty would be and can be 100% legit!

I can see a change in manufacture to upgrade quality or something, but far too many times company's move production or what not to raise the bottom dollar there is no other reason for them to move production to a offshore plant.

I welded for many many years and done paint and body work for years also. I can tell you first hand that the metals and alloys from these offshore and third world communist countrys is subpar! It doesnt mater if something is made to a company's spec's and/or tolerances, or if they claim to have something designed here then built elsewhere, if the building material is subpar so will be the part produced! Just my two cents!

We seem to have this discussion every week here. The above sums up the reality.

Warranties aren’t worthless in general but putative ‘lifetime warranties’ are only as good as the company behind them. Sometimes 10 years later you can turn in a broken tool and get new production that’s improved, sometimes you get new production that’s ‘value engineered.’ You are still better off because your new crappier tool isn’t broke like the old one was. But it isn’t as fun as turning in a 20 year old rusty F36 and getting a beautiful F80.

Now we can of course discuss the ridiculous business model of selling $20 tools with lifetime warranties. It’s hard to expect either a quality tool or the retailer to stay in business at those prices.