tools for beginning tech: future SAE? 3/8"

[BerninicaCO3]

Hi!

So I start classes in 3 weeks to train to be an auto technician; under a T-TEN (Toyota) program at my local community college (lincoln tech is nearby too, but wanted $23,000 more dollars with maybe only $500 more in reasons to justify it! that's a hella lot of tools).

Now as they supply our tools, a wise man would wait until late December to buy all of his tools: he'll only need them for January's internship. But I'm a tool addict, so I'm buying now..


In toyota, of course it will be strictly metric; but there's not a certain guarantee that I'll be working at a toyota dealership, or even that the dealership doesn't see non-toyotas time to time. However, as I understand it, cars are going more and more metric, even the domestic manufacturers? (a measure I applaud btw, insisting on SAE is ignorantly patriotic). Even my 20-year-old ford is about 1/2 metric, it's always a fun game to guess whether a given bolt is one or the other.

SO, should I spend anything on SAE tools, or in 20 years, will they be gone? Maybe I'll even get to buy milk and gas by the liter and drive to speedlimits in kph if we're progressive enough!


Second question; is 3/8" also becoming the universal socket size, with 1/4" only for tiny electronics and 1/2" just for your 36mm axle nuts?

Final question: what size range? I can buy 3" sockets if I wanted to. I know I won't see those on any automobile however! Only if I were going to work on industrial equipment.
From what I've gathered, I'm looking at 10-19mm, + 32, 34, 36 for axle nuts? Ought to take care of nigh everything? And in 10-19, get deep, semi, and shallow; wobble/flex and straight, 6pt and 12; all the permutations for the 10-19mm range. For axle nuts, just semi-deep impacts?
Also, only bother with 10-19mm wrenches? Won't ever see a 25mm use in a car...? Or will I?

Let me know what other sizes you've ended up using most often, and if I should take my socket/wrench collection up to say 25mm...?


thanks!
-Bernard

 

[ZRX61]

8, 20, 22 & 24mm are fairly common, occassional call for 27 & 32mm...

 

[back2class]

I think some Craftsman combos, sockets from 11/32-1" and some hex keys would set you up well for SAE to start out. I would not be without at least the basics. The will be about $100 to have that in the box and if you end up working on more SAE stuff then upgrade. But that Craftsman stuff will get the job done just fine for occasional use. I think that will cover about 90% of SAE stuff you may see in auto. To me you would be looking at Shallow and deep sockets in both 1/4 and 3/8 and combo wrenches from 3/8-1". I use 1/4 almost as much working on cars as 3/8. Seldom do I use 1/2. That stuff tends to go impact.
I would think that should set you up. I caould not imagine not having the basic sae stuff in any box. I would not want to be using Craftsman every day as a tech, but for $100 you will be able to do must SAE stuff and that is alot of bang for the buck.

Same goes for metric biggies. 95% of your wrenching will fall into the 8-19mm range. Spend the money on Snap-ON for that stuff. The bigger stuff go cheap. The Harbor Freight impact stuff is solid and will cover you for the odd size you rarely need without breaking the bank. If you find yourself using say the 32mm often and find it not up to snuff then buy a snappy one. I would rather have the range of workable quality stuff starting out than a few pricey pieces.

On a side note, I hate mismatched sets, be it wrenches or sockets. But that gets very hard to justify when a single 32mm impact socket from snap-on is $50.

 

[alamerang]

First thing, don't assume anything regarding tools. I used to think like that and basically real life always throws you for a loop. You always end up needing what you think you won't need. First, I would get a full set of shallow 1/4 and 3/8 sockets. Then a full set of 3/8 deep. I would also get a set of 1/2 deep impacts even in the same sizes of the 3/8s. You can get by with a nice set of 3/8 and 1/2 flex joints till you can get a full set. Don't worry too much about 6 or 12 point sets for sockets. Just get some 6 pointers for now. 12 point is kinda redundant IMO since the ratchet repositions to the right angle anyways. Also a set of good extensions is a must.

As for wrenches, I would get everything from 6MM to 25MM. Also a good set of pliers, screwdrivers, prybars and pullers . Plus some good adjustable wrenches since they come in handy when you don't have the correct sizes you need.

Since you don't know exactly where you may end up working as a tech, you are gonna need to get pretty much anything and everything to be successful. In addition to asking questions on this site, I would go around town and ask some techs what they use to get a better idea of what you might end up needing

 

[flat6]

I graduated T-Ten in 1995,Obtained Toyota Master in 98'(Retired from "flat rate dictates" in 03').At the time we had a deal through MAC tools.Other schools had snap-on.It was really good deal at the time, 50% off cataloge up to $2500,Thats $5000 worth of tools..You might want to check into that.

I was poor at the time working at going through school.Also professional tools at the time were only through tool trucks,and special mail order(no internets or ebay).So starting out,I went individual tools while saving for the Mac deal.

Now a days you can find professional tools all over the place,cheap I might add.Just don't skimp on hard tools.Wrenches,sockets,ratchets,pliers,ect.

Most new vehical manufactures are using metric.Everything from japan,korea,europe.I would say 80% of fasteners on Domestics are as well.

Toyota uses:8,10,12,14,17,19,22,24..27,30,32,34,7

You will want lots of combinations of,10,12,14,17,19...I would add 13mm and 15mm for european and domestics..But not found on japaneese.

ony need a few of the others,like 27 need one wrench,nothing else
22,one wrench,one 1/2 drive socket,30,32 deep 1/2 drive axle nut socket,ect.

For sockets and wrenches,...Keep in mind that most tool companys(snap-on,matco,mac,cornwell) do not give a big price break on sets vs. individual tools.So buy what you need,pick up sizes as you go.

Some of the best advice was given to me from the guy I worked under in the beginning:

"See what the other guys are using day in and day out,That will give you an idea what you will need now and what to buy later"

And
"12 point wrenches,6 point sockets"

 

[HandyManny]

I seem to find myself reaching for 10mm a lot on newer cars (foreign and domestic) for removing access pannel bolts and shroud bolts and such.

 

[ZRX61]

I would add 13mm and 15mm for european and domestics..But not found on japaneese.

I've found 15mm on Mazdas

 

[spongerich]

I'm just a shadetree mechanic, but I'd say you're wasting your money buying new SAE tools. There's a shitload of them available at auction etc and you can pickup Williams/Proto, etc for $.25 a socket all day... same with SAE wrenches, there's no need to pay more than $2 each for anything smaller than 1"

Used good quality metric tools are a little tougher to come by, but if you've got until January, I'd be on the lookout for some deals between now and then.

 

[mrholeshot]

Buy the SAE! As an auto technician I can tell you it's not a textbook world and even working for a Toyota dealer you don't want cut yourself out of other work because you don't have a set of sockets and wrenches to get the job done. Many dealerships take on work from other makes and models. Many people who own the brand where you work at may want you to work on their other vehicles. Your dealer won't turn the work away if he has any sence. plus dealerships just arn't the place to make the most money so don't put all your eggs in one basket. learn to and equipt yourself to work on anything. The real money is at high volume independant garages. prepare yourself.

 

[Mr.Nutcase]

Hi!

So I start classes in 3 weeks to train to be an auto technician; under a T-TEN (Toyota) program at my local community college (lincoln tech is nearby too, but wanted $23,000 more dollars with maybe only $500 more in reasons to justify it! that's a hella lot of tools).

Now as they supply our tools, a wise man would wait until late December to buy all of his tools: he'll only need them for January's internship. But I'm a tool addict, so I'm buying now..


In toyota, of course it will be strictly metric; but there's not a certain guarantee that I'll be working at a toyota dealership, or even that the dealership doesn't see non-toyotas time to time. However, as I understand it, cars are going more and more metric, even the domestic manufacturers? (a measure I applaud btw, insisting on SAE is ignorantly patriotic). Even my 20-year-old ford is about 1/2 metric, it's always a fun game to guess whether a given bolt is one or the other.

SO, should I spend anything on SAE tools, or in 20 years, will they be gone? Maybe I'll even get to buy milk and gas by the liter and drive to speedlimits in kph if we're progressive enough!


Second question; is 3/8" also becoming the universal socket size, with 1/4" only for tiny electronics and 1/2" just for your 36mm axle nuts?

Final question: what size range? I can buy 3" sockets if I wanted to. I know I won't see those on any automobile however! Only if I were going to work on industrial equipment.
From what I've gathered, I'm looking at 10-19mm, + 32, 34, 36 for axle nuts? Ought to take care of nigh everything? And in 10-19, get deep, semi, and shallow; wobble/flex and straight, 6pt and 12; all the permutations for the 10-19mm range. For axle nuts, just semi-deep impacts?
Also, only bother with 10-19mm wrenches? Won't ever see a 25mm use in a car...? Or will I?

Let me know what other sizes you've ended up using most often, and if I should take my socket/wrench collection up to say 25mm...?


thanks!
-Bernard

What state you live? Illinois?

Talk to the instructor heading the T-Ten program.....
They will give a list of you need.......

I graduated T-Ten in 1995,Obtained Toyota Master in 98'(Retired from "flat rate dictates" in 03').At the time we had a deal through MAC tools.Other schools had snap-on.It was really good deal at the time, 50% off cataloge up to $2500,Thats $5000 worth of tools..You might want to check into that.

I was poor at the time working at going through school.Also professional tools at the time were only through tool trucks,and special mail order(no internets or ebay).So starting out,I went individual tools while saving for the Mac deal.

Now a days you can find professional tools all over the place,cheap I might add.Just don't skimp on hard tools.Wrenches,sockets,ratchets,pliers,ect.

Most new vehical manufactures are using metric.Everything from japan,korea,europe.I would say 80% of fasteners on Domestics are as well.

Toyota uses:8,10,12,14,17,19,22,24..27,30,32,34,7

You will want lots of combinations of,10,12,14,17,19...I would add 13mm and 15mm for european and domestics..But not found on japaneese.

ony need a few of the others,like 27 need one wrench,nothing else
22,one wrench,one 1/2 drive socket,30,32 deep 1/2 drive axle nut socket,ect.

For sockets and wrenches,...Keep in mind that most tool companys(snap-on,matco,mac,cornwell) do not give a big price break on sets vs. individual tools.So buy what you need,pick up sizes as you go.

Some of the best advice was given to me from the guy I worked under in the beginning:

"See what the other guys are using day in and day out,That will give you an idea what you will need now and what to buy later"

And
"12 point wrenches,6 point sockets"

Flat6 has very good point,**** dont use sizes like 13mm, 15mm,why? Bad luck..........
Just wondering what T-Ten school did you graduate?


Just little fact, the name of founder of Toyota is Mr.Toyoda....., weith sounds better...

 

[Dewaynep]

All good answers above. Plus, consider if you will be installing aftermarket accessories manufactured in the US. What if you needed to install a trailer hitch or toneau cover that used SAE hardware. It's more common than you may think.

 

[rsanter]

buy a set of the SAE but dont go overboard with it
they are always good to have

bob

 

[mrholeshot]

I use SAE more than Metric. But then again I build engines and race car components.

 

[caper]

I've found 15mm on Mazdas

Usually only on the chassis they share with Ford.The strictly Japanese chassis don't usually have 15mm.Ford owns Mazda,or vice versa.Many Mazda and Ford model are the same with different grills and bumpers.Hard to tell them apart when they're on a hoist and your looking at them from the bottom.

 

[treasureseeker]

I would suggest an inexpensive SAE set from Craftsman or SK. You may see some applications for them. I have lots of SAE as I started out in the 80s at a small garage but hardly use them anymore. On eBay they sell a lot cheaper then metric. When I worked at Roush they had a tool list with SAE up to 1 1/8 and I used one SAE wrench no sockets and it was on a tool not a vehicle. I would suggest looking into the student discount , EBay , and the forums classifies has lots of good stuff.

 

[jsonic6]

Get some SAE tools. They may come in handy cause you never know. Most of our 5 vehicles are metric, even my Mazda6 with a 3.0 Ford Duratec engine. The only vehicle I have with SAE fasteners is my 2005 Dodge Dakota.

 

[rayzor32]

99% of everything will be metric. So buy all snap-on metric stuff and have craftsman for standard. Their will be times when you need standard sizes for rounded/rusted metric bolts, or aftermarket parts or the rare times you actually run across a standard bolt.

You will need 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" drives. You can get away with craftsman in 1/4" and 1/2" just make sure they are 6-point.

Since your in school you should be getting a huge discount from snap-on, I'd recommend budgeting around 5-6g's for tools, get them while you have the discount.

wrenches get 7-24mm, 1/4"-1 1/8". sockets can 8-27mm and a set of axle nut sockets. You can get away with 22mm and 1" wrench and just buy a quality 15" crescent wrench.

I really wouldn't be worried about buying all your tools at once, when I was in school I bought all my snap on tools on the last semester, I just had a craftsman toolbox full of old tools, craftsman and some HF to get me by, their should be a required tool list at your school and you just borrow the rest.

 

[psychoclaw84]

I am a DIY and work on Toyota & Honda.

Both cars use metric fasteners: 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, 19, 22, 24, 27, 30, 32 & 36mm. As a result, I have accumulated a vast array of metric sized tools.

SAE fasteners on a Toyota & Honda cars occur when other people replace a metric nut or bolt with SAE, which is pretty rare.

I do own a set of SAE and find that I rarely use them, they only come in handy when working on household items, such as garage doors, fixture around the house and older appliances.

Do not own a domestic auto, so I do not know which fasteners they use. From other posts, it appears to be metric.

 

[mrholeshot]

99% of everything will be metric..

But the facts are that while everything maybe headed that way there are still many car and trucks on the road still using SAE bolts. GM's L18 8.1 still uses SAE bolts in and threaded into the engine. It would be foolish to assume everthing is metric and not be prepared for the job. Many aftermarket parts, custom builds and such require SAE. If you limit yearself to warranty work in a dealership you are ******* in the wind. Customer pay is the gravy. My tools run about 50/50 SAE/Metric. There is still enough SAE stuff on the road to justify a good set of SAE for the next 20 years. If you do custom work you'll prob be dead before it's phased out and that if you are in your teens now. If you plan on spending your life at Toyota and Drive nothing vintage you'd probably be OK.

 

[ozzy214]

As everyone else as said, you still need american sets.

Hell just yesterday, I did a brake flush on a 2006 f250 superduty 2wd. WOuld ya believe the bleeders were 3/8??? 3/8 is equivalent to 9.5 mm roughly, so no way it was a ten. I miked it to be sure.

So unless ya plan to work on nothing but yota's, then by all means get only metric. But if ya plan to work on other things or even exhaust work, then ya need sae. No shop I ever worked for bought metric bolts for example to assemble exhaust..


Hell you think sae is not common??? Then explain to me why the hell my 5/8 1/2 drive impact swivel grew legs and found a new toolbox home??????

I had that ******* for like 8 years...im still pissed. Oh that brings up another point. Stay away from Snappy or hide it at work. Buy junk tools like cman, pittsburgh, never let people know you own Snappy tools. They will and always do seem to find better homes due to you not feeding them enough.

4 snappy tools costing bout 150 all together found new homes...

 

[Goinlow]

I work on everything from euro to American cars at the shop I work at and I can tell you I very rarely if every use standard. Why I have a set of standard (mostly craftsman) is to fill in the gaps on the metic sizes. If you have a semi stripped bolt or worn then standard is perfect.

Pulling a trans in an 88 chevy pickup the bellhousing bolts were worn away so 9/16ths stubby wrench saved my ***.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

(a measure I applaud btw, insisting on SAE is ignorantly patriotic)

The Imperial system is British, actually.

 

[crewchief888]

Some of the best advice was given to me from the guy I worked under in the beginning:

"See what the other guys are using day in and day out,That will give you an idea what you will need now and what to buy later"

And
"12 point wrenches,6 point sockets"

i'd like to add this

"if you have to borrow it twice, it's time to buy one of your own"

never hurts to ask other techs when you 1st get started, what will i need?

worked for me anyway.
ive worked for 4 different brand dealers over the years, theres always
some oddball, goofyassed, assbackward, or just plain PITA, nut, bolt or clip, that someone else has already figured out the best way to remove or install.

 

[NotoriousCAM]

You will need a 15 mm wrench if you want to do alignments on any of the newer smaller toyotas (I know the rav4 has 15mm for sure)
Also, the axle nuts on most of the new toyotas are a 39mm, 12 point nut.

 

[6-Holer]

I can't believe that no one (even Moose!) has mentioned the 21mm nuts that secure the wheels on every Toyota passenger-car I've ever seen.

(I'm just sayin'........)

 

[NotoriousCAM]

Oh and 22 for that matter, they are the lug nuts on the new Tundra Sequoia and Land Cruiser.
That 15 mm is for the camber bolt, sorry forgot to mention that earlier.