Tools for New Student

[MFlanagan]

My son is starting a program at Community College for Auto Mechanics. He has a pretty decent set of Craftsman tools that he has been using the past few years but now we have a tool show this Friday where he can buy Snap-On tools with his student discount.

My question is what tools do you suggest that I get him? I'm not looking to have an entire box of Snap-On as even with the discount I can't afford it but I am sure there are some tools that are just "must have" due to regular use or quality.

Maybe a few of you can chime in with a favorite Snap-On tool that you just couldn't live without.

Thanks

 

[utking]

The snap on ratchets! F80, T72, S80 etc.

They are the best!

 

[wchamberlain]

I would suggest screwdrivers, wrench sets to include flare nut sets, dead blow and ball peen hammers, socket sets and pliers to name a few. Ratchets are great, some would argue for Matco 88's, but if you can get them for a great deal from S/O, go for it.

It really depends on your budget, you can go overboard but like you said, not everybody can jump on the truck and buy the store.

Snap On is extremely high quality in most if not all of their tools, hard to go wrong with anything. If you can swing a deal on a box, that would be beneficial as well depending on the cost.

 

[Lkdelta]

My question is what tools do you suggest that I get him?

I am sure there are some tools that are just "must have" due to regular use or quality.

Thanks

If he is looking to make it a career and it really is a good price
maybe a decent 1/4,..3/8,..& 1/2 drive rachet for when the CM dies and the replacement sux worse than the one that was just returned.

I'm stricly a DIY at home, but I see a few of the Torx and reverse Torx fittings that will need a way to turn them..

Harbour Freight 3/8 & 1/2 drive "impact allen wrench" and "impact torx" work good for rachet torque

 

[NJHandyGuy]

dead blow, pick set, radiator pick, screwdrivers cman wrenches work fine imho

 

[back2class]

Here is the list I feel should be snap-on if you can afford it. Just about everything else, you are paying for a name and for the easy credit. In these kind of items that are pushed to their breaking limit regularly that 2% BETTER QUALITY that snap-on may offer on these items will make life easier for him once or twice a year. That adds up to quite a few hours saved over a career, where a lesser quaity tool may have failed or stripped the fastener.

Also remember, nearly everything made by snap-on can be purchased new or near new on ebay for less than the student discount...so do not think you have to use it.

I would by very little snap-on, it is overpriced because of the easy credit gimick and deliver to your door service. The tools, while very high quality, are often twice the price (or more) of other pro tools that are just as good. Things like ratchets, many less expensive ones available that are as nice or nicer and do the job just the same. Just buy Snap-On where they offer a good value.....things he will use hard EVERY DAY or things that are used a fair amount that get pushed to the breaking point. I would think with the student discount, for between $700 and $1,500 you should be able to get him about everything that snap-on sells that a new mechanic should have in snap-on tools. I would say get more, because at 50% off they are no longer stupidly overpriced, but the simple fact that all can be purchased on ebay for that any day, no need to rush....

Hex keys and sockets (gold colored ones)
Torx sockets (gold colored ones)
Screwdrivers (There are others as good, but they are a wear item and easy to replace)
Any wrench with open ends or crowsfeet
Line/flare nut wrenches and sockets
Picks
Tripple square sockets
Taps, dies drill bits and thread chasers (not because they are better, but because they break and wear out and Snap-on is about the only company that will replace them without issue.)


Many times mid priced items like Channellock and Craftsman items will be just as good and most of the time Matco, Proto, Wright, Cornwell will be just as high quality.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[WRX/Z28]

Flare/Line wrenchs. Brake tools. Snap on's spark plug sockets are a million times better than c-mans, especially with todays overhead cam cars. Semi-deep sockets (I use them more than anything else)

 

[franzdom]

Also remember, nearly everything made by snap-on can be purchased new or near new on ebay for less than the student discount...so do not think you have to use it.

I have found this to be not the case. So often lately eBay is VERY expensive.

 

[MFlanagan]

Wow! This is fantastic. He does plan on doing this as a career. He is taking the Ford ASSET program which has the benefit of him finishing with all of the Ford Certifications, credit for work so that he can take the ASE tests the day he graduates AND (my favorite) an Associates Degree in Applied Science. He wants to work at his sponsoring Ford dealer for a year or two to get some more experience and then (with my financial help) open his own shop.

I picked up a Harbor Freight box for him that seems good enough to last at least a few years. Bottom box, top box and a side cabinet. I looked at the Snap-On boxes and just can't see spending many thousands of dollars at this point. I think that we spent about $700 for what he has now. Can the SO boxes really be 8-10 times better or last that much longer??? I figure if the box falls apart in 5 years he can buy a new one then and still be way ahead of the game.

So it sounds like everyone agrees that the ratchets are a sure thing. Makes sense since you use them all day every day. He does need some new screwdrivers so those are on the list. He doesn't have any flare wrenches yet so I will get those. In regards to hammers (he labled the drawer they are all in "Motivators") is there a big difference in quality? He has a bunch of no name type stuff and I think he has a dead blow but not sure.

I don't really have a budget on this. I will get him whatever he NEEDS. I kind of had in my head that we would try and keep it in the $1000 range but I have no idea. We will NOT be getting any SO credit set up - EVER. I have made sure to beat it in to his head that owing money to the tool truck every week is not a way to live. If he needs an expensive tool in order to do his job then I will get it for him after we discuss it and make sure it is a NEED and not a WANT

Again - thank you all for taking the time to respond. This is a huge help.

 

[utking]

Yes the ratchets is the best i've ever used hands down

Also i've read that the snap on boxes *****, don't bother if he have another good one

 

[pipsters]

I do not know him personally, but back2class has been a big proponent of "logic" and "reason" on here. He seems to understand value and doesn't buy into propaganda and go along with the herd mentality that you see Snap-On bring. That being said if I were in your shoes, I would basically follow his advice to the letter.

Also, on that Harbor Freight toolbox, I recently delivered an aircraft to our overhaul facility and looked around at what the mechanics (A&P's) used for boxes. Lots of Craftsman, a few Snap-On, and believe it or not there were more than their fair share of Harbor Freight 42" toolboxes there. So they must do a good job in the pro environment.

 

[MFlanagan]

Hex keys and sockets (gold colored ones)
Torx sockets (gold colored ones)
Screwdrivers (There are others as good, but they are a wear item and easy to replace)
Any wrench with open ends or crowsfeet
Line/flare nut wrenches and sockets
Picks
Tripple square sockets
Taps, dies drill bits and thread chasers (not because they are better, but because they break and wear out and Snap-on is about the only company that will replace them without issue.)

I am looking in the online catalog for Snap-On now and I am not seeing "Gold Colored" hex and torx sockets. Am I not looking in the right place?

With regards to the Tripple square sockets (I admit I had no idea what these were) they seem to be used on European vehicles. Since he is working strictly on Ford vehicles for the next 2 years of school and then going to work at a Ford dealership - is this something we should look at now?

I saw a really nice Tap and Die set on their site. Lists for just under $500. If we can get it at 40-50% off is that a good investment?

All great advice. Thanks.

 

[pdxgearhead]

I cannot count the amount of times I've seen an auto tech student on Craigslist whose dropped out of school and/or in a finiancial bind offloading his apprentice Snap-On/Matco/Cornwell set for 35 cents on the dollar.

Your son's Craftsman will get him through school. When he graduates and gets a job, and passes his probationary period, then move on to SO. Even without the student discount, truck tool dealers give other incentives.

 

[billymade]

Gold colored are supposed to be stronger then your normal bit sockets; while not indestructible (all brands wear out or break eventually), the Snap-on bit sockets of all types really hold up well under constant use.

metric: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...5&group_ID=274&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

standard: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?
P65=&tool=all&item_ID=819&group_ID=274&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

torx: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...group_ID=11463&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Hex and Torx are MUST have tools these days; inferior tools of these type break and have to be replaced; get the real deal and get the job done, make money!

High quality taps and Dies are never cheap; if you are looking at a equivalent non truck price, look at the hanson/irwin sets... I believe they make them for Snap-on. As stated above; Snap-on will replace them under warranty; irwin/hanson and every other brand out there won't! Most companies have changed their lifetime warranties to a "consumable" warranty; which doesn't last long, considered use and toss tools.

Remember much of what your paying for is the quality of the tool and to a greater degree the service that goes along with it. Believe me; t is nice to have your dealer help you with warranty issues without having to drive all over town after work; to get things replaced when they break (and they will!).

As you are hearing very specific "targeted" purchases of the best of the best for certain things; regardless of the brand, really makes working on cars easier and helps getting things done.... the ultimate goal of any usage of a tool! Good luck!

 

[MFlanagan]

OK - Rachets... There are tons of different styles and shapes. From the reading I have done it looks like the 3/8 is the most commonly used on a daily basis for the pros. Now the question is the angled versions, swivel head, extra long handle, etc. Which ones should he have? He already has the CM nicer rachets but I agree that once they break it would be nice to have the SO versions. If you have part numbers that would even be better. Soooo many choices haha

 

[daveblank]

Matco has the student discount program also. Definitely look into the pinless impact wobble sockets.

 

[billymade]

Good place to start:

http://www.snapon.com/dual80/

propaganda video:

These are the classics most people have:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=81183&group_id=20864

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...group_ID=20864&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

However, it is nice to have one of each of the different types for situations where you need them; cars have close quarters now a days.... all the different types of ratchets really help. There is a reason why there are so many types and shapes of ratchets!

 

[franzdom]

The gold hex bits bit drive sockets from Snap-on are how they differentiate metric from SAE in their normal range. Most people are referring to the standard ones, rather than their "power" bit sockets. The goldish ones are metric, torx & SAE are plain grey looking.

 

[dankicksass]

Snap-On's SEP program will let your son buy one tool chest, one top box and $7500 worth of deeply discounted tools for the duration of his schooling, not just at one show. It brings the prices on a lot of things at or below Craftsman prices. They will show you a starter set and some add-on sets of tools but the program doesn't require you buy a starter set.

http://www1.snapon.com/sep

 

[usdemt]

The gold hex bits bit drive sockets from Snap-on are how they differentiate metric from SAE in their normal range. Most people are referring to the standard ones, rather than their "power" bit sockets. The goldish ones are metric, torx & SAE are plain grey looking.

No the gold ones are "Heavy Duty Removal"
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=hand&Group_ID=11463&store=snapon-store

 

[ajchien]

Let the board know what craftsman tools he already has. Some are good enough not to need replacement by snap on. Others should probably be replaced by snap on for professional use.

 

[franzdom]

No the gold ones are "Heavy Duty Removal"
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=hand&Group_ID=11463&store=snapon-store

I see it's only about Torx then, thank you for clarifying.

 

[MFlanagan]

Let the board know what craftsman tools he already has. Some are good enough not to need replacement by snap on. Others should probably be replaced by snap on for professional use.

He is at school now (just started on Monday) so I don't have access to the box to do an inventory but I do know that I started with one of the 300 piece sets. Cam with 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 rachets and sockets both 6 and 12 point, shallow and deep. The rachets are the "smooth" handle ones which from what I read are a bit better than the other raised panel ones. It also came with an assortment of screwdrivers, hex keys, torx keys, pliers and wrenches.

We then added tools as he had jobs that needed them. I got him an IR 1/2 impact, a 3/8 air ratchet and a set of 1/2 impact sockets. Also an assortment of no name hammers. Got some specialty tools from tooltopia - ball joint press with expansion set, brake set, power probe, brake bleeder. That's about all I can think of off the top of my head.

The way that the school works is that he is at school in classes for 8 weeks and then he spends 8 weeks at his sponsoring dealership where they will reenforce what he learned in the previous 8 weeks. Then he is back in school for 8 weeks. This swap back and forth goes on for 2 years. So I guess what I am trying to do is make sure he has all of the "basics" covered and takes advantage of the Student Discount while he can. If he doesn't have a particular tool in the box during this 2 year period I don't think he will have a problem borrowing it from his mentor at the dealership until he gets his own.

So given that thinking I want to make sure that the tools he will grab every day are of top quality and won't let him down. The tools that get used once or twice every few months can wait until he needs them.

 

[diesel research]

Craftsman, snap on, mac, matco, all offer a student discount. Cornwell and napa may

Matco actually drops a HUGE discount around christmas time. I am talking about some items were up to 80% off. Be VERY careful, a LOT of rebrand (I understand most all non-box items are rebrand, but I mean many identical items are available for less elsewhere) and import slips into the matco catalog, do careful research of each item before buying them.

The discount price is often less than the truck dealer himself pays.

That cordless snappy 3/8 sure would be nice....

_____________________________

Best approach since he has an apprenticeship with ford is let him figure out on his own what he needs. Have him pay in a fraction of each tool so he isn't as tempted to just circle the entire catalogs.

 

[back2class]

I believe snap-on's Blue Point (less expensive line) offers the same great warranty and on consumables like drill buts and taps/dies offer a better value.
Also, check the classified section here....
Some wobble impacts would be awesome for him...snap-on may be just too expensive, but check for other quality brands or used ones.
Also, the Craftsman sockets and allen wrenches are pretty good quality and will take him far. I see no need to replace those while he is in school. With good quality stuff like that...it is better to add to the collection first.....then upgrade to great stuff when needed if ever. Kind of like a tree trimming company. They are better off getting some good ladders, saws, and a decent used bucket truck....rather than the finest ladders, saws, and no bucket truck.
The HF box is a good value. In truth the snap-on value line (KRA) are only slightly better built. Now, I am not sure how the box will hold up moving it back and fro from school and shop if fully loaded. That kind of life is very hard on a box...esp a mid grade one.

Anyhow, sounds like he has a great dad in getting him off to a great start...making sure he has what he needs and avoids stuff he does not...

You can save yourself a fortune on ratchets if you look for other good brands. Maybe a 3/8 in snap-on and the rest.......well plety of pro quality ones here in the classifieds here for $20-30. 80% of the ratchet use will be 3/8. Though I have no affection for snap-on ratchets, if I were to go that route, one long handle locking flex head and one standard dual 80 would be by far the most used ratchets..other than a flex stubby....and for that low torque....just about any brand with a decent tooth count will give a lifetime of great service. Spend the money where it counts....and not on items where inexpensive ones will perform just as well. There was a great discussion on dead blows (HF v. Snap-On a month back) I personaly feel most hammers are a horrid value in Snap-On. But at 50% off, the are not that much more than new Craftsman, and a few broken ones and the trips to sears to replace them over 30 years of work....may justify the extra cost. But you can go crazy doing that kind of future planning and you have to draw the line somewhere. Lots of mechanics doing perfectly fine with harbor freight hammers that cost $2. Same can't be said for HF screwdrivers.

I mean really????? hard to justify the value here!
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...group_ID=24604&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog


Work smarter...not harder. Smarter includes making wise investments. Something he NEEDS to understand if he runs his own shop one day.

 

[MFlanagan]

I hear you on the moving of the box. He has to move it from school to the dealer every 8 weeks so it will get some bumps and bruises. We do unload all the tools into boxes before we move it as it just makes it easier. We have a separate box for each drawer so it isn't too bad.

I agree on the hammers. I just can't see that there is that much of a quality difference on some of the tools. Just doesn't make sense to me. I have personaly broken and chipped cheap screwdrivers so for that I can see paying a premium.

I think the best thing he said to me a month or so ago that I believe came from this forum was "A bolt doesn't know the name on the wrench". I just want him to be smart about where he makes his investments. Hopefully in his near future the position of automotive technician will gain the respect it deserves and the salary to match. It just amazes me that he will need tens of thousands of dollars of tools, another tens of thousands in education so that he can get a job that pays $15-$20 an hour. With any luck he can open his own small shop and make a decent living.

 

[j-guenth]

Purchase the general set and add on as he completes his schooling.

Snap-On has several sets and add-on sets at great prices!

If you are going to purchase tools and use them professionally Snap-On is the way to go.

 

[BloodySinner]

Depending on where you live, I believe the tools are also tax deductible. I got almost all of money back from tool purchases from Mac/Snap-On while I was in cool. I would encourage your son to buy as much as he can afford while he still can. He'll never see those kind of prices ever again. I live in Canada, so...

 

[ibedayank]

torque SOCKETS not the bits but sockets....used alot on studs
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947733000P?prdNo=4&blockNo=4&blockType=G4
wobble extensions .... work in places a flex socket wont fit
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00944284000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
at least the 3/8s set if not 1/4 3/8s and 1/2 inch drive
these dont need to be snapon craftsman works just fine

flex ratchets...both straight and angled handle
see snappy dealer

 

[pipsters]

Depending on where you live, I believe the tools are also tax deductible. I got almost all of money back from tool purchases from Mac/Snap-On while I was in cool. I would encourage your son to buy as much as he can afford while he still can. He'll never see those kind of prices ever again. I live in Canada, so...

Tools most likely are classified as a business expense which would be written off when you itemize. To obtain "most" of your money back, you'd have to be in a VERY high tax bracket, like 90%, for which the US does not have. Also, if someone is presently in school it's very unlikely they will even have enough deductions to itemize as well as being in a low earned income tax bracket.

 

[ibedayank]

I hear you on the moving of the box. He has to move it from school to the dealer every 8 weeks so it will get some bumps and bruises. We do unload all the tools into boxes before we move it as it just makes it easier. We have a separate box for each drawer so it isn't too bad.

I agree on the hammers. I just can't see that there is that much of a quality difference on some of the tools. Just doesn't make sense to me. I have personaly broken and chipped cheap screwdrivers so for that I can see paying a premium.

I think the best thing he said to me a month or so ago that I believe came from this forum was "A bolt doesn't know the name on the wrench". I just want him to be smart about where he makes his investments. Hopefully in his near future the position of automotive technician will gain the respect it deserves and the salary to match. It just amazes me that he will need tens of thousands of dollars of tools, another tens of thousands in education so that he can get a job that pays $15-$20 an hour. With any luck he can open his own small shop and make a decent living.

now your talking upwards of 100 grand in tools and other costs like REAL repair manuals not the ones from the autoparts store

you know the stuff your boss pays for when you work for somebody else
the more brands you work on the more special tools he will need and they aint cheap

 

[Skin]

now your talking upwards of 100 grand in tools and other costs like REAL repair manuals not the ones from the autoparts store

you know the stuff your boss pays for when you work for somebody else
the more brands you work on the more special tools he will need and they aint cheap

this very much depends on what is worked on. Today an independent can get by relatively easily by only eliminating a few models and/or certain jobs on certain models. Of course in 10-15 years who knows what it will be like.

I would suggest screwdrivers

Disagree on that at least in regards to automotive. A really good bit set with a driver or two and a screw gun will be far more useful [and a HUGE time saver in flat rate]. Screwdrivers are mostly a waste of money today.

Quite honestly OP, aside from some electronic stuff SO makes nothing your son will need that other brands cant cover. I'm actually stunned at what brands like Toptul charge for their stuff, in some cases its even as much as 1/10th of a truck brand equivalent.

Things i'd still go after from SO would be the bit sockets [hex and torx, tripple square, female torx etc], 1/2" breaker bar, their pliers stuff like that. Tools you know will get abused and damaged/broken over the course of years and years of service but this is more for the convenience of the replacement service they offer than some vast superiority in quality.

 

[crewchief888]

after his 1st couple of rotations back and forth he'll see what other guys are using, and what he's going to be needing.

previous posters have mentioned SO ratchets, torx, and hex drivers, flare nut wrenches, and matco impact wobble sockets.

some things that we forget about in suggesting tool purchases

rubber tipped blow gun
tire pressure guage
tire inflator
cutoff tool/ die grinder (maybe already mentioned)
gloves
eye protection
ear protection

i'm sure theres more.

ive had excellent luck with bluepoint air tools.

 

[ibedayank]

after his 1st couple of rotations back and forth he'll see what other guys are using, and what he's going to be needing.

previous posters have mentioned SO ratchets, torx, and hex drivers, flare nut wrenches, and matco impact wobble sockets.

some things that we forget about in suggesting tool purchases

rubber tipped blow gun
tire pressure guage
tire inflator
cutoff tool/ die grinder (maybe already mentioned)
gloves
eye protection
ear protection

i'm sure theres more.

ive had excellent luck with bluepoint air tools.

good point you only have one set of eyes and ears ... get used to wearing them and not the cheap ones

 

[bobcatdan]

I'm an ASSET grad. Working in a dealership during school is nice and finishing school with your ford certs is a plus, but I have to say the schooling was a joke. Maybe there are better ASSET programs elsewhere, but if you happen to be looking at MATC here in Wisconsin, look eleswhere. Just my two cents.

 

[csargents1546]

The cman set that you started him with should do for years to come, stay away from the so starter sets. If you read the contents, there is 6 and 12 point of every size, both metric and standard. Working at a Ford dealership myself, I hardly reach for the standard stuff anymore, still have it, just collects alot of dust in my main box.
I agree with getting ratchets, I prefer the swivel head ratchets over the flex head, that is also just me. Hex bit sockets and torx sockets, radiator hose picks, prybars, pick set, ratcheting wrenches flex style. The box you got him will do for a long time, I have a husky I bought at HD about ten years ago, so far it is holding up just fine.
Ingressol rand also has a student discount program.
Best of luck to your son.

 

[greasemonkey44]

radiator picks; gear wrenchs; matco 88 tooth 3/8 ratchet
hell collect the rest as he goes but these always come in handy and will last him a long time

 

[MFlanagan]

Thanks again guys for all the great suggestions! I am seeing many of you recommending radiator picks. I had never heard of them before. Is this a tool that gets used regularly? I found 2, 3 and 6 piece kits here: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=all&Group_ID=17606&store=snapon-store

Will he need all the different type or just one or two?

I do think that we will spend more time tomorrow seeing what they have to offer and getting to handle the tools than making purchases. Since he is able to purchase tools with the student discount for the next 2 years there is no big rush to load up. I will also have him join the Matco Student program so we can see what they have as well.

This is a real learning experience and I am having a blast with my son doing all of this. He is a great kid with his head firmly attached. His comments to me after his first full day of class was:

"Today we did all kinds of safety stuff and got to walk around the shop for a little bit. They have a new 6.7 powerstroke and a 6.0 powerstroke I was looking at those and they have the new v6 ecoboost which is cool. It was a good day! I got talking to some of the guys and they seem really cool but they know a lot. Most of the guys came from a tech school so I got some catching up to do!"

Man I wish I was young again and experiencing all this

 

[MFlanagan]

Tool Fair is tomorrow morning. I'll try and grab some pics to post if it is anything worth sharing.

 

[crewchief888]

good point you only have one set of eyes and ears ... get used to wearing them and not the cheap ones

ive had way too many years of loud music, unmuffled diesels, and just plain noisy shops.

it's amazing i can hear at all......