Tools from Taiwan

[d.mcfarland]

Anyone else becoming more and more impressed with tools that are made in Taiwan?

I'll admit I like USA when possible, but for the DIYer, it seems that the items for Taiwan are becoming just about as good. This is in no way an everyday type of topic, but for those who might just use the item once in a while.

For example, my Capri hex bit sockets were $15 compared to the $100+ for the least expensive USA ones. They did the job just fine for me.

 

[erty67]

A lot of Taiwan tools are the preferred lower/mid-grade brands today.

 

[sbyrne92]

Taiwanese tools are made pretty well, but there sockets and wrenches don't match USA quality. The fit and finish of USA stock is better than taiwan stuff. The pricing point is what sets it off. Taiwanese stuff will range mid between china and USA. However, I do own a few taiwanese ratchets and sockets and they are well made (special sockets, hex, torn, mostly from harbor freight).

The new harbor freight ratchets, composite and "pro", are taiwanese and they seem pretty well built for average use.

 

[treblarefils]

The harbor freight taiwan chrome sockets are actually nice and seem way higher quality than craftsman china. It just ***** that harbor freight doesnt have complete sets. I have used my HF hex bits a lot and they are great also and made in taiwan. Ive never had a problem with any of their "pro" chrome sockets either.

 

[SantaAna12]

I ordered a Williams SAE set for my truck.....ended up looking around the site....went back and put it in my cart and checked out. (Tooltopia) When it showed up......"Taiwan" on the sockets. (Williams makes U.S. and Taiwan if ya didnt know). My mistake....and it's easy to do on their site.
Anyways.....good fit.....seemingly good finish.....havent loaded them much.....1/4 -1 inch for a good price.
Its an option.

 

[beatcad]

i wish you brought this up 3 days ago.
last sun i was at a swap meet and got a toolbox full of sockets.
i got it home and kept only the made in USA ones. maybe 50 or so.
the rest was made in taiwan. maybe 150 to 200 sockets.
i put them in a chinese food take out tray and was gonna toss them in the trash.
my 14 year old neighbor came buy and asked what was up?
i gave 'em all to him.

that's was about 15lbs that my trash guy didnt have to lift

 

[sonvolt]

I have some GearWrench stuff and it is good quality as well as a few Carlyle pieces, I would put them at the top of the heap

 

[arz71]

The steel quality is not the same as tool steel here in the USA.

 

[G_P]

Taiwan tools are not as high quality as the US and European made stuff but it is much better quality than the Chinese and Indian made stuff.

If you are on a budget and want new instead of used tools, Taiwan made offers damn good quality for the price.

 

[bcradio]

I disagree... the absolute top quality hand tools I own are Taiwan made (Triangle Tools). They are perfect in virtually every respect including fitment and finish. The Snap-On tools I own are great, but these are a notch above them quality wise. Same goes for my German made hand tools.

Other Taiwan brands I own are not nearly as good though.

 

[jdelrizzle]

Although i do have complete sets of snap on impact sockets, lately I've been putting some serious thought into purchasing impact sockets of Taiwanese brand, i.e. sunex, gp, Williams (tiawan)

Impact driven sockets, bits, etc are the only Taiwan tools I'll purchase.

 

[Fedwrench]

I'll say it again, most people here will not accept a Taiwan made tool line regardless of how good it is.

Back to the original post, yes, I have found that there are some excellent automotive hand tools coming from Taiwan such as Napa's Carlyle line that offer excellent fit, finish, and feel.

High Five, King Tony Pro and Kabo make some really nice tools that often get truck brand names stamped on them to be sold at premium prices.

However, praising Taiwan made tools here is like ******* in the wind.

 

[burke753]

I'm a professional that uses my
Tools hard everyday. That being said. All of my impact sockets are Sunex made in Taiwan and I don't break anymore than I do any USA socket I ever had. But I've got about 5 sets of Sunex impacts with another set of 1/2"drive Matco ADV which is also just a rebranded Sunex set.

I believe my Matco heavy duty service cart is a rebranded Sunex too. The cart doesn't have the build quality of my box. But I work out of it way more than I work out of my box. All of my general service tools are in the cart anything special is in the box.

I have no issue with the Taiwan made stuff after having used it hard since 2011. The price lured me in but the quality made me stick. I've also got multiple sets of gear wrench ratcheting and non ratcheting wrenches.

Of course there are still lots of specialty or odd tools I have that are USA made and need to be to put up with the abuse. Some torx sockets and my torque wrenches and lots of other odds and ends the Taiwan stuff won't hold up to. But for the most part I'm very impressed with most of the Taiwanese tools I have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Shadowdog500]

I'll take anything made in taiwan over something made in china any day.

Chris

 

[monomach]

I dunno where all of the "for the DIY user" and "for average use" and "not as good quality of steel" and "not as good as US" comes from in this thread.

Current Taiwan tools commonly available at local retailers like Kobalt/Pitt Pro/Duralast/Gearwrench are good enough for pro use. If that stuff said "Forged in the USA" on it, no one would suspect anything different and they'd be recommending it on GJ left and right. Obviously, they're not better than a premium US or German-made brand, but in my experience the quality of the newer widespread Taiwanese wrenches, sockets, and ratchets beat the ever-loving tar out of the regular Craftsman line when it was last made here.

If you go out of your way and go through the pain in the *** of ordering up some Toptul, you'll get even higher quality. I've used their wrenches and I'd say they're on par with the old US-made Craftsman Professional/Armstrong full polish that no one on earth will say a bad word about.

No one would go broke using Taiwan steel to make a living.

 

[JR 42]

When I first joined Garage Journal, I read a lot and decided I'd only buy American or western European tools.

And then... I read a bunch more GJ, posts by FedWrench and monomach and Mechanic Named John and many others, and thought maybe Taiwanese tools aren't so bad after all (and they're much more affordable- I'm not a mechanic, just a noob with a couple older Toyotas to maintain).

I've since purchased a few Taiwanese tools and been perfectly happy with the price point, quality, and function of them all. I have a hard time believing that the better offshore stuff is worse than bottom-end Danaher/ Apex stuff (looking at you, Sears). I'll still buy US- made stuff first if I can find it and afford it, but I won't avoid a quality tool because of where it's made.

JR

 

[Beenman]

We use a Taiwanese brand of tool at work now (Mastercraft), and I have to say they look pretty decent and some of the items stand up to serious work abuse surprisingly well (ratchet and sockets in particular). Their screwdriver tips are pretty useless though and I wish they would add knurling to their sockets.

Other than that I must say I'm pleasantly surprised (for the German tool snob that I am).

 

[JonnyMac]

Firstly chinese tools are no where near Taiwan tools period. The same can be said for their machinery in general.
Anyway I am good friends with a tool shop owner who sell koken, stahlwille, pb swiss etc and is a very good engineer with an encyclopedic knowledge of tools. His store is one if the best ive seen in any country. He was flown to taiwan by teng tools to look over their factory and was basically amazed at the level of expertise and quality of their machinery. Whilst its nice to have usa origin tools I dont think there is a huge difference in quality. It all comes down to the brand, just bcause its from a particular country doesnt automatically make it good or bad (although china and perhaps india are definitely ****).
I would have no hesitation in purchasing and/or using taiwanese tools.

 

[JonnyMac]

Oh yeah. Its also worth mentioning that the ford manufacturing plant here in australia uses apex taiwan impact sockets on the production line. They are used constantly for hours/days at a time and almost never break. Thats good enough for me...

 

[d.mcfarland]

I dunno where all of the "for the DIY user" and "for average use" and "not as good quality of steel" and "not as good as US" comes from in this thread.

No one would go broke using Taiwan steel to make a living.

That's the cool thing about them though. I don't have to worry about the warranty being from my driver or whatever. The tools will put up with the occasional use and last many years.

I think that there is a ratio that everyone uses to purchase tools. The cost/value ratio. For me, changing differential oil does not need sockets that cost a ton. The torque isn't gonna be that much and the Taiwanese tools can easily take it without ever needing warranty at all. For me, that is worth the lower price.

Chinese are likely going to depend on what you get. So that's another argument not really meant for this thread.

 

[Cato]

The steel quality is not the same as tool steel here in the USA.

Would you elaborate on that? Maybe a link?

 

[jsharpphoto]

I have tons of USA craftsman stuff sitting in a box, mostly mid 80's-90's stuff that i've been given by my dad. Two full sets of raised panel wrenches, 2 half sets (redundant) of sockets, you know, the stuff all of our dads had.

I put the wrenches in a box and all I use are my gear wrench ratcheting set. I have a full set of USA craftsman 6pt sockets, but I don't love them. The set of gear wrench taiwanese 1/4 drive sockets that came with my ratcheting nut driver are nicer than my craftsman, both in finish and in overall design. Gearwrench is quickly becoming my brand of choice for normal hand tools. I wish they made better hammers and pliers, but anything that is made to interact with nuts and bolts, it's my go to. I just picked up a nice set of gear wrench metric taps and dies. It's tremendous.

My only consistent complaint with the gear wrench stuff is the polish on "full polish" stuff isn't great. It's like they weren't ground completely smooth before chroming. No big deal. Most chrome tools like the same after I drop them a few times, which I do.

As far as power tools goes, the most-used tools in my garage are from Tawian. My 1990's delta drill press is Taiwainese, as is my delta grinder and bench sander. I bought they all at garage sales for the same price as new chinese versions would have been at HF. It's all been excellent. My craftsman Chinese miter saw? nope.

 

[espyking83]

Taiwanese tools are made pretty well, but there sockets and wrenches don't match USA quality. The fit and finish of USA stock is better than taiwan stuff. The pricing point is what sets it off. Taiwanese stuff will range mid between china and USA. However, I do own a few taiwanese ratchets and sockets and they are well made (special sockets, hex, torn, mostly from harbor freight).

The new harbor freight ratchets, composite and "pro", are taiwanese and they seem pretty well built for average use.

Williams Taiwan sockets are every bit as durable and performing as the USA ones, same with the wrenches.

 

[erty67]

I dunno where all of the "for the DIY user" and "for average use" and "not as good quality of steel" and "not as good as US" comes from in this thread.

as a DIYer, I would only speak as such. It wouldn't be just to say they are pro quality without using them as a pro. I am curious on the steel quality comment as well.

 

[d4dawg]

If you go out of your way and go through the pain in the *** of ordering up some Toptul, you'll get even higher quality. I've used their wrenches and I'd say they're on par with the old US-made Craftsman Professional/Armstrong full polish that no one on earth will say a bad word about.

I've been to the Toptul store in Taiwan to play with some of their tools. I was really impressed. Locally, the company positions itself as the premium brand among all the other local offerings, and their tool prices reflect that. They are not in the US because they thought it would be difficult to sell at a higher price point compared with all the other made in Taiwan tools already here, when all carry the same "Made in Taiwan" stigma.

 

[steed andersen]

It has taken me over 30+ years to accumulate my tool sets. Some SO,C-Man,SK,Thorsen,Williams,Proto,New Britton,Husky,Litton,Sunnex,HF,Master Force,etc... Absolutely love using a quality tool,nothing matches the feel. But when it comes down to it I love any tool that does the job when I need it.

 

[Cato]

I am curious on the steel quality comment as well.

I have been looking for some objective metallurgical data to support the claim that American tool steel is better than Taiwanese, or Chinese for that matter.

Also, I haven't seen any American tools that exceed the fit and finish of Taiwanese tools. In fact Taiwanese tools seem better made than American tools - this is certainly the case for American entry level tools. Even Snap On seems equal to Taiwanese tools.

So it comes down to unsupported claims that Taiwanese steel is inferior to American steel. That seems to be the only claim of superiority. And of course none of us regular guys have the labs to be analyzing steel.

It looks like that claim is just based in nationalism and not truth. I prefer American tools, even if they are inferior and wildly overpriced. I just like Americana. But let's not live in a fantasy world that because something says Made in USA, it must be the finest product man can make.

 

[BirdMobile]

Last I checked, the same laws of physics apply in the U.S. as Taiwan. Metal atoms behave the same here as there. Alloying and forging processes behave identically in both places.
So, any claims that U.S. steels are somehow superior to Taiwanese steels must rest on the assertion that the factories in Taiwan use inferior equipment, or inferior processes to U.S. factories. Given the huge outflow of production FROM the U.S. TO Taiwan, and the huge capital expenditures associated with this outsourcing, I personally find that assertion to be ridiculous!
Snap On, or ANY other U.S. company than has the financial resources and the will to do so, could build a factory complex in Goatbang Shitistan, Siberia - and produce as high a quality steel and finished goods as anywhere in the U.S., using the same laws of physics and technical knowlege.
Claims to the contrary are fantasy, wishful thinking, or nationalistic propaganda to be swallowed only by the most gullible.

 

[Krokodil]

I used a Taiwanese gravity fed sandblasting gun today that I bought last week. Perfect for my application and the price was just right. I'm happy.

 

[Wakefield]

I wonder about the steel. Does it come from a different place than it did in 1980? Haven't a lot of the places in Pittsburgh and Bethlehem closed since then? Were those where the tool steel came from? Is any tool steel made in Ohio?
Could some of the steel being used now in USA be imported? Does the steel used in Taiwan come from somewhere else? From the USA even?
Someone I know had one of the first Honda Accords ever made,when it started rusting he said it was the fault of reprocessed steel. As if it had been made of recycled stuff.

 

[BirdMobile]

I wonder about the steel. Does it come from a different place than it did in 1980? Haven't a lot of the places in Pittsburgh and Bethlehem closed since then? Were those where the tool steel came from? Is any tool steel made in Ohio?
Could some of the steel being used now in USA be imported? Does the steel used in Taiwan come from somewhere else? From the USA even?
Someone I know had one of the first Honda Accords ever made,when it started rusting he said it was the fault of reprocessed steel. As if it had been made of recycled stuff.

All I know is that a steel plant closed down north of where I live about 10 years ago. The furnaces were disassembled and shipped to China. Wonder what their freight bill was?

 

[BK13]

Goatbang Shitistan, Siberia

That has to be one of the all time great phrases ever typed at GJ....

 

[John in OH]

...... Whilst its nice to have usa origin tools I dont think there is a huge difference in quality. It all comes down to the brand, just bcause its from a particular country doesnt automatically make it good or bad (although china and perhaps india are definitely ****)......

+1 !! It's all about the design, materials, fabrication process, quality control, and company culture. I definitely prefer to buy USA because I like to try and keep jobs and companies in the US. But, the US has no unquestionable lock on well made tools.

 

[Toyota mechanic]

I dunno where all of the "for the DIY user" and "for average use" and "not as good quality of steel" and "not as good as US" comes from in this thread.

Current Taiwan tools commonly available at local retailers like Kobalt/Pitt Pro/Duralast/Gearwrench are good enough for pro use. If that stuff said "Forged in the USA" on it, no one would suspect anything different and they'd be recommending it on GJ left and right. Obviously, they're not better than a premium US or German-made brand, but in my experience the quality of the newer widespread Taiwanese wrenches, sockets, and ratchets beat the ever-loving tar out of the regular Craftsman line when it was last made here.

If you go out of your way and go through the pain in the *** of ordering up some Toptul, you'll get even higher quality. I've used their wrenches and I'd say they're on par with the old US-made Craftsman Professional/Armstrong full polish that no one on earth will say a bad word about.

No one would go broke using Taiwan steel to make a living.

I had a USA Craftsman long handled, flex head, 3/8 drive, black hard handled ratchet; that was coarse feeling as heck... I traded it in for the same one, made in Taiwan; because it was smooth as a Timex watch!

If Craftsman went to Taiwan production across the board, is may have been an 'upgrade' over the last USA stuff...

I imagine it is almost as expensive to manufacture in Taiwan as it is in USA.. China may have been needed to cut their costs, and it shows! The Taiwan stuff is always seemingly quality!

 

[Tronyadorable]

The quality of any product is dependent on the "people" who sit on the board of directors at any company on the planet. I'll leave it at that.

 

[JR 42]

I wonder about the steel. Does it come from a different place than it did in 1980? Haven't a lot of the places in Pittsburgh and Bethlehem closed since then? Were those where the tool steel came from? Is any tool steel made in Ohio?
Could some of the steel being used now in USA be imported? Does the steel used in Taiwan come from somewhere else? From the USA even?
Someone I know had one of the first Honda Accords ever made,when it started rusting he said it was the fault of reprocessed steel. As if it had been made of recycled stuff.

I'm no expert, but I think the answer to all your questions is "yes." China produces and exports more steel than any other country, so there's a good chance that some Taiwanese tools are made with Chinese steel. Here's some wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production

and a railroad map of US steel mills in 2011 (PDF):

http://www.uprr.com/customers/ind-prod/attachments/metals/minimillmap.pdf

I don't know if reprocessed steel is any more prone to rusting than steel made from ore - why would it be? Steel.org says it's no different:

http://www.steel.org/Sustainability/Steel Recycling.aspx

Though I've heard of people etching barstock from box stores and seeing mashed-up screws and other identifiable bits, I think those stories were made up...
JR

 

[monomach]

I'm no expert, but I think the answer to all your questions is "yes." China produces and exports more steel than any other country, so there's a good chance that some Taiwanese tools are made with Chinese steel. Here's some wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production

and a railroad map of US steel mills in 2011 (PDF):

http://www.uprr.com/customers/ind-prod/attachments/metals/minimillmap.pdf

I don't know if reprocessed steel is any more prone to rusting than steel made from ore - why would it be? Steel.org says it's no different:

http://www.steel.org/Sustainability/Steel Recycling.aspx

Though I've heard of people etching barstock from box stores and seeing mashed-up screws and other identifiable bits, I think those stories were made up...
JR

I wouldn't count on Taiwan getting much steel from China right now. They don't have such a great relationship. You couldn't even catch a plane between the countries until 2008. Right now, only tourism is fairly open...except Taiwanese can't use a Taiwan passport to travel to China because China claims that pieces of China can't make their own passports, so they have to apply for special Chinese citizen travel permits.

China even objects to foreign press outlets calling talks between the two countries "China-Taiwan relations" because it still insists that Taiwan doesn't legally exist.

The two countries can do business, but there are a lot of taxes/tariffs/hoops to jump through on the Taiwanese side, so it's mostly labor-related stuff rather than buying of materials. This year was the first time a Chinese government minister has set foot on Taiwan since 1949. They started negotiating a deal making it easier for the two to do business, but it backfired; the Taiwanese people had big protests about it. They took over the parliament building and held it for a month. The last thing I read said that the agreement basically died in committee because it's politically toxic for any Taiwanese politician who would support it...the people are afraid that once China gets its foot in the door, it'll gain control of the government and finally annex them.

Meanwhile, China keeps putting ballistic missiles on the coast nearest Taiwan and Taiwan keeps buying anti-missile systems and fighters from us to counter them.

It's basically the same level as US-USSR relations a few years before the collapse of the Soviet Union.

 

[steed andersen]

i wish you brought this up 3 days ago.
last sun i was at a swap meet and got a toolbox full of sockets.
i got it home and kept only the made in USA ones. maybe 50 or so.
the rest was made in taiwan. maybe 150 to 200 sockets.
i put them in a chinese food take out tray and was gonna toss them in the trash.
my 14 year old neighbor came buy and asked what was up?
i gave 'em all to him.

that's was about 15lbs that my trash guy didnt have to lift

Sounds like you made that kids day!

 

[TLR-NUT]

I have to say I am not impressed with Snap-On quality for some of their stuff. I'm on my 3rd(waiting for the 4th to come in) 3/4" drive 1-3/8 socket. First one the chrome was coming off. Second one the release button was missing and seemed to be unfinished in that area. The third one has a big nick on the top of the socket. Hopefully the forth will be ok. This set was $3500. I expected much better.

 

[JR 42]

I wouldn't count on Taiwan getting much steel from China right now. They don't have such a great relationship. You couldn't even catch a plane between the countries until 2008. Right now, only tourism is fairly open...except Taiwanese can't use a Taiwan passport to travel to China because China claims that pieces of China can't make their own passports, so they have to apply for special Chinese citizen travel permits.

China even objects to foreign press outlets calling talks between the two countries "China-Taiwan relations" because it still insists that Taiwan doesn't legally exist.

The two countries can do business, but there are a lot of taxes/tariffs/hoops to jump through on the Taiwanese side, so it's mostly labor-related stuff rather than buying of materials. This year was the first time a Chinese government minister has set foot on Taiwan since 1949. They started negotiating a deal making it easier for the two to do business, but it backfired; the Taiwanese people had big protests about it. They took over the parliament building and held it for a month. The last thing I read said that the agreement basically died in committee because it's politically toxic for any Taiwanese politician who would support it...the people are afraid that once China gets its foot in the door, it'll gain control of the government and finally annex them.

Meanwhile, China keeps putting ballistic missiles on the coast nearest Taiwan and Taiwan keeps buying anti-missile systems and fighters from us to counter them.

It's basically the same level as US-USSR relations a few years before the collapse of the Soviet Union.

I agree relations are very strained at times between the two, but Taiwan does more import and export business with China than the US. Poke around here for more info:

http://cus93.trade.gov.tw/ENGLISH/FSCE/

JR