superautobacs
Well-known member
Wow, I wonder if they'll come out with a 22mm. I need to work out my wrist!
Tools from the old world
- Thread starter Monte
- Start date
superautobacs
Well-known member
I almost spilled my food on the keyboard!
I should use some 1/2" extensions as my chopsticks...work out some other parts of the hand.
I almost spilled my food on the keyboard!
I should use some 1/2" extensions as my chopsticks...work out some other parts of the hand.
1/2" ?? I would start with 1/4" then move to 3/8" ....
ok finally i managed to get the wrench test scanned. Test object: 13mm combination wrenches.
page 1, page 2, page 3, page 4, page 5, page 6, page 7
participants: Snap-On (2x), Stanley, Bahco, Facom, Stahlwille, Walter, Wiesemann, Hazet, HR, Matador, Metrinch, Müllner, Proxxon, Gedore, Force, Circum, Ajay.
legend:
Preis = price
Maßhaltigkeit Maulseite = dimensional accuracy open end
Maßhaltigkeit Ringseite = dimensional accuracy box end
Maulbreite = thickness/height open end
Ringbreite = thickness/height box end
Nm max. Maul = maximum torque open end in Newtonmeter
Nm max. Ring = maximum torque box end in Newtonmeter
Bemerkung = comment
Open end minimum torque is 51 NM , Box end 107 NM. Dimensional accuracy between 13,04 and 13,24mm.
superautobacs
Well-known member
Thanks Monte!
Good information to have for reference.
Any other information on the article you can share, or your opinion on the test?
Good information to have for reference.
Any other information on the article you can share, or your opinion on the test?
american lockpicker
Banned
Heres an assortment of some of the stuff I have.
The silver aluminum case(SIGG Box) and flashlights(taschenlampen) aren't really from the old world(Switzerland and Germany) they are made in China...
The silver aluminum case(SIGG Box) and flashlights(taschenlampen) aren't really from the old world(Switzerland and Germany) they are made in China...
Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
What brand is that made in UK caulking gun?
american lockpicker
Banned
Cox, the plastic ones are actually cheaper than the chinese one I usually see for sale. They make a wide variety of them in metal and plastic.
http://www.cox-applicators.com/
Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
Thanks!
www.pccox.co.uk
perfect time to post mine
You see the COX guns quite often here. The cheapo ones always looks like the Cox from above but are not from England ...
they also supply other famous "manufacturers":
perfect time to post mine
You see the COX guns quite often here. The cheapo ones always looks like the Cox from above but are not from England ...
they also supply other famous "manufacturers":
american lockpicker
Banned
I seen one other cox for sale its $30 but not labled Made in England or UK so I wonder if it is. The tags never say on them.
superautobacs
Well-known member
Anyone try one of these from Tajima?
I saw them at my local store and it's the nicest one I've held in my hands so far. All the caulking guns I've come across don't have the Tajima's auto flow-stop feature.
Tajima USA
I saw them at my local store and it's the nicest one I've held in my hands so far. All the caulking guns I've come across don't have the Tajima's auto flow-stop feature.
Tajima USA
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Vinko
Well-known member
German-made plastic spray bottle, posted in other thread. Would love to find out who the OEM is. I bet Monte knows
Vinko
Well-known member
@vinko:
thanks for the translation !! I only can understand Facom, Stanley, continue benefits , continue investment and million dollars
Is french now the 2nd language in california ??
Before a lot of schools lost their tax base, lost their purpose or whatever, they offered Spanish, French, German, and sometimes Latin. Maybe an Asian language. The two most popular were Spanish and French. German was the weird kids. If you wanted to challenge yourself or be different, maybe you took French. Spanish more practical and useful, no doubt. But many large US cities are so international that you can find pockets of emigres whom you can talk with.
american lockpicker
Banned
German-made plastic spray bottle, posted in other thread. Would love to find out who the OEM is. I bet Monte knows
Where can I get one of those at?
Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
German-made plastic spray bottle, posted in other thread. Would love to find out who the OEM is. I bet Monte knows
I have one of those. It kicks ***.
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
wurth.......
Sorry but i dont know who is the OEM for this bottle. You find this one quite often under several names like Wurth, Berner, Liqui Moly, Teroson (Henkel/Loctite) etc. I try to find out next week who is the OEM. Here is another one www.mesto.de
I too have a Wurth version + this noname one
There are several versions out there, the black one with viton seal for brake cleaner etc. the others are for less agressive fluids and also cheaper. My dealer offers 3 versions:
@vinko:
"German was the weird kids" lol for the "Tokio Hotel" fans ??
English is mandatory over here from the 5th grade on now they want to introduce it from the 1st grade on. On the High School (5th to 13th or 11th to 13th grade ) you additionally have to take either spanish or french sometimes there is Latin or Russian offered.
I too have a Wurth version + this noname one
There are several versions out there, the black one with viton seal for brake cleaner etc. the others are for less agressive fluids and also cheaper. My dealer offers 3 versions:
@vinko:
"German was the weird kids" lol
for the "Tokio Hotel" fans ?? English is mandatory over here from the 5th grade on now they want to introduce it from the 1st grade on. On the High School (5th to 13th or 11th to 13th grade ) you additionally have to take either spanish or french sometimes there is Latin or Russian offered.
There are a couple of misprints. They say the measurements have to be between 13,40 and 13,24 but its 13,04 and 13,24. They also mention in the text on the last page that the box end of the Ajay, Müllner and HR are out of spec (13,25mm)and in the test the Gedore box shows a measurement of 13,02 which was not mentionend so probably it was 13,20 and not 13,02 ?
The box end only was tested up to 240 NM because the hex of the "Torquemachine" was only good for 250NM and they didnt want to destroy it (cost 700 euro) . Chrome flaked off from the Ajay and Müllner wrench.
The "Force" box end broke. I doubt the origin of the Müllner, Metrinch,Proxxon and Bahco wrench, Stanley probably not USA too. Also the ranking is strange...
never saw one of those unfortunately.
superautobacs
Well-known member
I got this viton guy and I love it. It's rebranded FBS; made in Germany. Pretty expensive for something as simple as a hand pump. 
Regarding the Gedore ring-end size:
Looking through their catalogue, it mentions about the tolerance ranges as per ISO691 dimensions (Tolerance class 2a). A size within 12-14mm can have a wide(?) range from +0,04 up to +0,30. So, like you say, it could be a typo--that it should be 13,20.
If that's the case, that particular Gedore wrench, despite being within the tolerance range, doesn't favour well when comparing it with the rest of the competition (cheaper ones especially). I also wonder if the offset on the ring-end (the deepest out of all the ones tested) may have influenced the readings. 
Regarding the Gedore ring-end size:
Looking through their catalogue, it mentions about the tolerance ranges as per ISO691 dimensions (Tolerance class 2a). A size within 12-14mm can have a wide(?) range from +0,04 up to +0,30. So, like you say, it could be a typo--that it should be 13,20.
If that's the case, that particular Gedore wrench, despite being within the tolerance range, doesn't favour well when comparing it with the rest of the competition (cheaper ones especially).
I also wonder if the offset on the ring-end (the deepest out of all the ones tested) may have influenced the readings. It seems to be the Mercedes of pump sprayers
The text at the last page with the foto says: The Gedore bent at 209 NM. Hindering was the big offset. But 209 NM is pretty good i think since a 13mm wrench is for M8 screws which are tightened to a maximum of 45 NM in the highest grade 12.9. If you want to break loose a screw you have about 4 times safety margin on the open end and about 5 times at the box end. But i have a set of the Hazet wrenches who won anyway so.....
ps: Already ordered your set ???
The text at the last page with the foto says: The Gedore bent at 209 NM. Hindering was the big offset. But 209 NM is pretty good i think since a 13mm wrench is for M8 screws which are tightened to a maximum of 45 NM in the highest grade 12.9. If you want to break loose a screw you have about 4 times safety margin on the open end and about 5 times at the box end. But i have a set of the Hazet wrenches who won anyway so.....
ps: Already ordered your set ???
american lockpicker
Banned
Looks like they sell both models I have. I got them because the use 3 N(LR1) batteries each and I thought they were Made in Germany.
@american lockpicker:
just read an article about Zweibrüder/Led Lenser. They have 3 plants - 2 plants in China. The bodies are made in china, the switches USA the diodes europe the lenses from germany. They have 1000 employees and hundreds of patents and are probably market leader in Led technology flashlights. In just 8 weeks of selling their lights both brothers became millionaire .Here`s a report + video (but in geman) with a small insight of their facilities. (the filing cabinet in the video is full of lawsuits with patent infringements from all around the world...).click
heres a company who claims that these 2 lights are made here click
More lights from germany oldschool click These probably too, they say they invented the rechargeable flashlight in 1955 www.acculux.eu . The "Mellert" "SLT" range is produced here: click
I bought the UK and Peli ones because you find them often at distributors/wholesalers and Police/Fire department stores and i also didn`t want to spend too much for a Fenix or Surefire etc. "Parat" brand lights you also see often but they`re from china too i think
www.parat.de
Found this wrench at the flea market. Looks like Stahlwille but no name on it.
just read an article about Zweibrüder/Led Lenser. They have 3 plants - 2 plants in China. The bodies are made in china, the switches USA the diodes europe the lenses from germany. They have 1000 employees and hundreds of patents and are probably market leader in Led technology flashlights. In just 8 weeks of selling their lights both brothers became millionaire
.Here`s a report + video (but in geman) with a small insight of their facilities. (the filing cabinet in the video is full of lawsuits with patent infringements from all around the world...).click heres a company who claims that these 2 lights are made here click
More lights from germany oldschool click
These probably too, they say they invented the rechargeable flashlight in 1955 www.acculux.eu . The "Mellert" "SLT" range is produced here: clickI bought the UK and Peli ones because you find them often at distributors/wholesalers and Police/Fire department stores and i also didn`t want to spend too much for a Fenix or Surefire etc. "Parat" brand lights you also see often but they`re from china too i think
www.parat.de
Found this wrench at the flea market. Looks like Stahlwille but no name on it.
superautobacs
Well-known member
It seems to be the Mercedes of pump sprayers
The text at the last page with the foto says: The Gedore bent at 209 NM. Hindering was the big offset. But 209 NM is pretty good i think since a 13mm wrench is for M8 screws which are tightened to a maximum of 45 NM in the highest grade 12.9. If you want to break loose a screw you have about 4 times safety margin on the open end and about 5 times at the box end. But i have a set of the Hazet wrenches who won anyway so.....
ps: Already ordered your set ???
Yeah, that pump spray seems to be the staple of many shops and enthusiastic DIY'ers.
Yeah, these break tests are interesting and all, but in reality, your own hand would just me screaming for mercy way before reaching those torque levels. But if you are one of those peoples that must have the best of the best, regardless of cost, you must call your Hazet dealer NOW.
Me? I be different and order a set of Ajay or something.
american lockpicker
Banned
@american lockpicker:
Just read an article about zweibrüder/led lenser. They have 3 plants - 2 plants in china. The bodies are made in china, the switches usa the diodes europe the lenses from germany. They have 1000 employees and hundreds of patents and are probably market leader in led technology flashlights. In just 8 weeks of selling their lights both brothers became millionaire
heres a company who claims that these 2 lights are made here click
more lights from germany oldschool click
i bought the uk and peli ones because you find them often at distributors/wholesalers and police/fire department stores and i also didn`t want to spend too much for a fenix or surefire etc. "parat" brand lights you also see often but they`re from china too i think
www.parat.de
Those parat lights are assembled in China by Pila I believe. Also thanks for the link to that other German flashlight I compiled a list of Made in Europe flashlights on another forum and will add that to it.
Servus, folks,
Mhh, I haven't decided yet but I'm leaning towards 3/4" sockets from Stahlwille and 3/8" AS sockets from Hazet. Maybe I'll get a Ko-Ken flex- or swivel-head ratchet.
Checking out Stahlgruber is on my to-do-list.
I can't comment on that. From what I have heard (yep, rumors) Gedore offers higher discounts to dealers than Stahlwille and Hazet.
That's what I have the Berner I-sockets for.
Me not either.
BTW, what's your take on Unior toolboxes? A few days ago, I found this tempting offer. Unior's EuroPLUS boxes are nicer but the price for the EuroSTYLE 940 E4 is great (list price EUR 743 without VAT).
Any news on the Garant hex keys with ball retainer? Did you contact Wiha?
Did you order the PB ratcheting screwdriver in the meanwhile?
Which conclusion did you draw from the review? If you want to get rid off your Hazet wrenches and get Ajay instead drop me a line, please. I might buy the Hazet tools if you offer a decent price.
Buying a set of Stahlwille No. 13 AF OPEN-BOX wrenches was on my mind. Now that I read the test, I don't know if I should invest the $$$.
BTW, still no response from Facom. I didn't get the full meaning of the video posted a few pages back but I assume that Facom is a healthy company that doesn't need me (as a customer).
Regards,
Chreese
@chreese:
If you want to save you some money then go buy them [Ko-Ken sockets] - the Gedore dude said they are good
Mhh, I haven't decided yet but I'm leaning towards 3/4" sockets from Stahlwille and 3/8" AS sockets from Hazet. Maybe I'll get a Ko-Ken flex- or swivel-head ratchet.
I would check out "Stahlgruber" they also carrry koken ( a bit). Even "Förch" is listed... like i said ...everywhere....
Checking out Stahlgruber is on my to-do-list.
Maybe Gedore is preferred since they also have a factory in Austria ?? local patriotism ?
I can't comment on that. From what I have heard (yep, rumors) Gedore offers higher discounts to dealers than Stahlwille and Hazet.
That's what I have the Berner I-sockets for.
Me not either.
BTW, what's your take on Unior toolboxes? A few days ago, I found this tempting offer. Unior's EuroPLUS boxes are nicer but the price for the EuroSTYLE 940 E4 is great (list price EUR 743 without VAT).
Any news on the Garant hex keys with ball retainer? Did you contact Wiha?
Did you order the PB ratcheting screwdriver in the meanwhile?
Which conclusion did you draw from the review? If you want to get rid off your Hazet wrenches and get Ajay instead drop me a line, please. I might buy the Hazet tools if you offer a decent price.
Buying a set of Stahlwille No. 13 AF OPEN-BOX wrenches was on my mind. Now that I read the test, I don't know if I should invest the $$$.
BTW, still no response from Facom. I didn't get the full meaning of the video posted a few pages back but I assume that Facom is a healthy company that doesn't need me (as a customer).
Regards,
Chreese
A socket set "test" from a german magazine:
Participants: Snap-on, Walter, Metrinch, Stanley, Format, Elora, Hazet, Gedore, Circum, "No name", Facom, KS-Tools, Stahlwille, Proxxon, Wisent, Bahco.
Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, page 4, page 5, page 6, page 7, page 8
Legend:
Bezugsquelle = source
Modell = model
Kasten = box
Ausstattung = content
Handling + Technik = handling + technics (of the ratchet: Length, head width, weight, teeth, "swing arc", "free travel"
Referenznuss 17mm = reference socket 17mm ( max OD + minimum wall thickness
Verarbeitungsqualität = product quality (of the ratchet)
service = service
Zwischenwertung ohne Berücksichtigung des Preises = rank without price
Preis = price
Gesamtwertung Preis-Leistungsverhältnis = rank/overall standings (cost/performance ratio included)
Participants: Snap-on, Walter, Metrinch, Stanley, Format, Elora, Hazet, Gedore, Circum, "No name", Facom, KS-Tools, Stahlwille, Proxxon, Wisent, Bahco.
Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, page 4, page 5, page 6, page 7, page 8
Legend:
Bezugsquelle = source
Modell = model
Kasten = box
Ausstattung = content
Handling + Technik = handling + technics (of the ratchet: Length, head width, weight, teeth, "swing arc", "free travel"
Referenznuss 17mm = reference socket 17mm ( max OD + minimum wall thickness
Verarbeitungsqualität = product quality (of the ratchet)
service = service
Zwischenwertung ohne Berücksichtigung des Preises = rank without price
Preis = price
Gesamtwertung Preis-Leistungsverhältnis = rank/overall standings (cost/performance ratio included)
My father got the Wisent set (in black) and I must say the set is overall not that bad for the price. Amazing to see that Snap-On does not really outperform the rest of the bunch.
Think there is also the psychological effect, since in Europe the Snap-On ratchet style is considered being 'cheap' and to be honest, I do not like the feel either.
Think there is also the psychological effect, since in Europe the Snap-On ratchet style is considered being 'cheap' and to be honest, I do not like the feel either.
mik641
Well-known member
A socket set "test" from a german magazine:
Participants: Snap-on, Walter, Metrinch, Stanley, Format, Elora, Hazet, Gedore, Circum, "No name", Facom, KS-Tools, Stahlwille, Proxxon, Wisent, Bahco.
Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, page 4, page 5, page 6, page 7, page 8
Legend:
Bezugsquelle = source
Modell = model
Kasten = box
Ausstattung = content
Handling + Technik = handling + technics (of the ratchet: Length, head width, weight, teeth, "swing arc", "free travel"
Referenznuss 17mm = reference socket 17mm ( max OD + minimum wall thickness
Verarbeitungsqualität = product quality (of the ratchet)
service = service
Zwischenwertung ohne Berücksichtigung des Preises = rank without price
Preis = price
Gesamtwertung Preis-Leistungsverhältnis = rank/overall standings (cost/performance ratio included)
Monte, do you have a translation for the ratings for the best ones in order from best to worst?
american lockpicker
Banned
It looks like Snap on is on the road to being a cheap brand with the outsourcing to China and all...
Vinko
Well-known member
I got this viton guy and I love it. It's rebranded FBS; made in Germany. Pretty expensive for something as simple as a hand pump.
What is Viton and what is FBS
Do you mind tell me how much you paid, so that I could get a comparison with what's available here? Thank you.
sorry, found it:
http://www.fbs-online.com/FBS_home.html
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why Stahlwille now ?? Gedore once offered sixty percent rebate (don`t know if on all tools though) but it was reduced to 45% now. i emailed Unior yesterday to see if they have a dealer here but no response so far. I have to check them out "live" before i can say anything. Similar style tool boxes are available from Ebay for 100 bucks less or even more.
Metec/Gedore boxes should be available for the same price like Unior. I just called Wiha, but they didn`t know about them so i should call back tomorrow to speak to the sales rep who deals with Hoffmann/Garant. I will order the PB driver until 1/8/2010 when the sales ends
But i`ve to collect some more bucks since i think i`ll get the new Bahco saw handle too, some locking pliers, the new Garant level, the Garant/PBswiss PH screwdriver set, eventually the Garant hex keys w/ ball retainer, maybe Wiha Inomic needle nose pliers, Garant cutter knife and maybe the rebadged VBW water pump pliers or pliers wrench
haha i think i just keep my Hazets....
maybe i`ll buy a Bollywood movie but not their wrenches The best is to call the Facom customer service....
The finer tooth and less swing arc were incorporated into the ranking as well as the play of the square/gear in the ratchet as well as the play of the square/socket. So if you compare the SO ratchet with others who have a dual pawl setup like Gedore or a lot of import brands (i think the wisent one too) then the ratcheting of the SO is coarse/rough also compared to single pawl ratchet like the Stahlwille one. Also the SO has a rubber seal around the aquare so there will be always a little play while the Facom one for example has no play at all since it is "double guided" on top and below the ratchet head. Most customers here seem to prefer plastic/rubber handles also.
ps: the dual 80 probably would have scored better
For all ratings in every category ?? I only have this in german - what do you like to know ?
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HarveyM
Well-known member
I did a quick conversion into an excel spreadsheet:
mik641
Well-known member
Ok great, thanks.
Monte- i was interested in who was the best overall
Monte- i was interested in who was the best overall
HarveyM
Well-known member
Ratchet Sets
Ranking without regard to price
1. Stahlwille
2. Bahco
3. Facom
4. Wisent
5. Proxxon
6. KS-Tools
7. Gedore
8. Hazet
9. Elora
10. Metrinch, Snap-On
11. Walter
12. Circum
13. Format, Stanley
14. No Name
Rank considering price
1. Bahco
2. Wisent
3. Stahlwille, Proxxon
4. Facom, KS-Tools
5. No Name
6. Circum
7. Gedore
8. Hazet
9. Elora
10. Format
11. Stanley
13. Metrinch
14. Walter
15. Snap-On
Wrenches by Rank
1. Walther
2. Wiesemann
3. Proxxon
4. HR
5. Circum
6. Mullner
7. Ajay
8. Stanley
9. Matador
10. Force
11. Bahco
12. Facom
13. Hazet
14. Metrinch
15. Stahlwille
16. Snap-on FD
17. Snap-on
18. Gedore
Ranking without regard to price
1. Stahlwille
2. Bahco
3. Facom
4. Wisent
5. Proxxon
6. KS-Tools
7. Gedore
8. Hazet
9. Elora
10. Metrinch, Snap-On
11. Walter
12. Circum
13. Format, Stanley
14. No Name
Rank considering price
1. Bahco
2. Wisent
3. Stahlwille, Proxxon
4. Facom, KS-Tools
5. No Name
6. Circum
7. Gedore
8. Hazet
9. Elora
10. Format
11. Stanley
13. Metrinch
14. Walter
15. Snap-On
Wrenches by Rank
1. Walther
2. Wiesemann
3. Proxxon
4. HR
5. Circum
6. Mullner
7. Ajay
8. Stanley
9. Matador
10. Force
11. Bahco
12. Facom
13. Hazet
14. Metrinch
15. Stahlwille
16. Snap-on FD
17. Snap-on
18. Gedore
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