Tools from the old world

[maxipouce]

Monte; please explain what wrenches you want to know more about because the picture you posted is not working for me.
You can use the spring and the moving "pinion" from the facom repair kit to put on the wurth-zebra ratchet, unfortunately the screw wouldn't fit because it is designed for the s.151 rachet maybe the screw from the s161 repair kit would fit.
I did some research about what you named new ratchets and it reminded me of this (look closely)...
Interesting isn't it???

 

[Monte]

@maxipouce:

Thanks for the info about the Facom/Würth ratchet !

Some of the Proto tools (Facom = Stanley = Proto) are in the Facom Aerospace catalog click (PDF) In the "normal" catalog they`re not listed.

ps: i was talking about these wrenches:
(Peugeot Surpans Vana-Lion) How do they work ?? Do you have a pic with a nut or bolt inside the open end ?

from ebay.UK

 

[Monte]

@maxipouce:

some french tools extra for you

Racodon:

Peddinghaus = MOB Outillage

1/2", 3/8" long, 3/8" and 1/4"

old S.151, old S.161 and the newer S.161 style from Italy

old S.151

"patented"

That`s how a ratchet head looks like if you have no hammer

 

[Fedwrench]

Hey Monte,

Great pictures as always. I have a couple of questions. First how do you like those black handled Facom screwdrivers? Second, in one photo you mentioned new Facom ratchets made in Italy, are all of the black handled Facom ratchets now made in Italy?

Thanks for you input to the board. It's nice to get a different perspective on tools.

 

[Monte]

@Fedwrench:
I didn`t use the new Facom screwdrivers so i can`t comment, but the surface seem to be more slippery (like the old Facom drivers), than for example the Hazet or Wiha drivers other than that the form of the handle is ok but not my preferred. I think i prefer the old Facom style because of the "quadratic" handle so you can transfer more torque than if the handle is just round. The firment (PH) is good, but not superior compared to Wera for example.

I just called Facom again Facom part no: R.161 (1/4" ratchet) origin: Italy, J.161 (3/8") (Italy), S.161 (1/2") (Italy), J.153A (3/8" flex) (Italy), S.171 (1/2" w. quick rel.)(Italy), The R.150A fingertip ratchet is also from Italy and the 3/4" K.152 also Italy
, J.174 (long 3/8" w. quick r.) (France), J.171 (3/8" w. quick r.) (France)
Surprisingly the J.171 and J.174 are the newest style with different handles (see below)

Monte, maybe you can shed some light on this Metabo grinder I just got.

I purchased it a few weeks back on ebay. Paid $25 for it, with 8 7" Sait grinding discs. Got the grinder and after firing it up, it was clear someone had ran these oversized discs on this 4 1/2" grinder for some time... one of the main bearings was shot and making noise. Seller refunded my purchase without question. New bearing was $3 shipped and it runs amazing now. Going to put a new wire wheel on it.

It has no model sticker left, has 6 variable speeds by dial on the back, had a coolant line fitting on the gear box side (well, what was left, a small 3/8" nylon braided hose had obviously ran to the grinding/cutting disc).

Got a reply from Metabo ! It is a polisher model "PE 7175" built since 1995. 710 Watts , 700 - 2200 RPM . Looked around in the net and found some pics on the Metabo website: click
The list price in 2004 was 346.84 Euro (vat incl.) !

the sucessor is the Metabo "PE 12-175"

 

[maxipouce]

Hello everyone,
surpans= sur pans= on sides , it's the predecessor of the ogv series from facom.

I was reading the adventures of superautobacs in Paris and thought that you might be interested in seeing what real France looks like, is anyone interested ?

photo 1 sam clickless
photo 2 what I received 2hours ago.

 

[Monte]

yes I`m interested !

The toolbox on the 2nd pic looks great !!!!!!!! very cool !! more pics ?? how does it look closed ??

Thanks for the SAM pic !! I thought only Facom has wrenches like this here in Europe.
The "Surpans" still look strange though. Only very small contact points !?

 

[maxipouce]

I was thinking that such a tool box was an artistic delirium just to have a fancy cover
But trust me; if such a thing comes to ebay...you will hear about a civilian war in France.
I will get some photos of the surpans in action as soon as I'll get rid of my cold.

 

[Monte]

If i see this box on Ebay i will enter the civilian war too That box is pretty nice !! with the light and the handle........
with the "brake pedal" (?), and the number on the side, looks like a small car
from when is the catalog ? 1960 ?

Do you have more of these older catalogs ?? ....pics...

I only have these newer ones:

 

[american lockpicker]

So what tools are still Made in France.

 

[Hazet]

@Monte

Do Metabo and Bosch share models and technology? The Bosch and Metabo 18V impact drivers are almost identical.

 

[superautobacs]

Wow, Maxipouce, thanks for posting those old catalogue images I expect to see more in the coming days/weeks/months. Also, I'm glad you liked reading my ventures through Paris streets and tool shops. I'd like to see the real tool shops/garages/flea markets/etc. of France though.

Monte, I'll try to post it up, along with some other French tools.

Guys, when did Facom introduce their OGV line? Since OGV was introduced, did they stop putting "France" on the tools? The newer production OGV stuff is now manufactured in Taiwan?

Also, I've been using my Petzl head lamp for about 2 years (good product), but never saw "France" anywhere. What are your thoughts?

 

[maxipouce]

I think that the screwdrivers and the high quality measuring tapes are still made in France, and of course prototypes.

In lexical order (I can repost individual photos upon request);
1996 general catalogue
1992""
1987""
1978""(the photo is not good it has a brown leather-like cover)
1973""
1973 price list
1968""
1991 automotive
1956""
1956 price list
1953""
1953 price list
1953 automotive
sam 1953""
facom 2008 price list.

I have one spare 1973 and one spare 1987.
2 years ago a 1936 catalogue ended at 145€ on ebay fr.

 

[Monte]

So what tools are still Made in France.

screwdrivers + pliers and the 2 ratchets...and ehhh ööhhh ähhh ..?? dunno... call + ask...

@Monte

Do Metabo and Bosch share models and technology? The Bosch and Metabo 18V impact drivers are almost identical.

which one do you mean . If i look at this Metabo and this and this and this from Bosch they look close but still different (Battery packs, "head" design, handle , body)
I don`t know Metabo and Bosch are fierce competitors, i wouldn`t buy from the other guys


@Superautobacs:
i bought my OGV wrenches in november 2004 some say "France" but not all. Stanley bought Facom in 2005/06. Maybe the wrench production was outsourced to a USAG/Pastorino plant. Some Facom wrenches were made in italy. Somewhere here i already posted that once. That Facom outsourced to Taiwan before Stanley bought them i don`t know...I guess not.

@maxipouce:
thanks for posting the catalogs !!

How do people in France compare Facom to other french companies like SAM or MOB and french tools compared with brands like Beta, USAG, Stahlwille, etc. (Proxxon, Unior, KS-Tools, Kraftwerk, King Tony...). I once looked through all pages of this post in a french car forum: click but i didnt translate everything so i dont know if Facom still is considered the French "Snap-On"...

And do the french Facom customers know that a lot of tools are outsourced now like the ratchets from Italy, the "440" series wrenches from Taiwan (and others too) or don`t they know and don`t care ?

 

[american lockpicker]

Also, I've been using my Petzl head lamp for about 2 years (good product), but never saw "France" anywhere. What are your thoughts?

I can tell you based on my research last year that most Petzl lights are made in France at PETZL at Crolles, 38.

"To further its expertise, Petzl continues to maintain production facilities in France.
This way the company keeps control over the different skills involved. French
suppliers, as well as those from around the world, are chosen according to technical (production quality) and ethical (working conditions) criteria"

Also some of the smaller ones are made in Malaysia and accessories are made in china.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=227449

 

[the spyder]

Thanks Monte! It makes since, I am going to try and find a polisher pad for it.

 

[Monte]

The cold war collection

 

[Chreese]

Servus, folks,

Sorry for the delay. I was rather busy lately.
Thanks for the great pics posted in the last weeks. Some tools are really tempting such as the Facom ratchets with their excellent finish.

Drills and the jigsaw also that vac they make.

I have the CT 22 vac, the PS 300 EQ Trion jigsaw and I regularly use my dad's CDD 12 FX AS/ES-Set cordless drill. As you probably know, two of these tools are no longer available. Nevertheless, I'd be glad to share my experiences with you. Just let me know if you're interested (or if there's anything specific you are interested in).

@Hazet:
btw Hazet 802 "Hexanamic"....
from the most recent DIY magazine a screwdriver test:

Place 1: Hazet 802 Hexanamic
Place 2: Felo Ergonic 410
Place 3: Felo ergonic 400
Place 4: Wera Kraftform
Place 5: Athlet 510

Astonishing results. A few years ago, the Gedore screwdrivers were rated top-notch by the same magazine.

To help you with the wrench decision

buy hazet buy hazet buy hazet........

Don't get me wrong but I don't think that this is helpful. If you really wanted to be helpful you should post such pics. (Just kidding, I think both companies - Stahlwille and Hazet - produce some of the finest tools available.)

I like those Bahco adjustable wrenches. But aren't they rather pricey compared to other adjustable wrenches? Monte, do you really use them? Or do you prefer the (Knipex, VBW) pliers wrenches in case you don't have the appropriate fixed-size wrench for a certain job?

BTW, which T-handle hex-screwdrivers do you like better - Wiha or Hafu? I also own both but only use the Wiha drivers since they are stored on a tool board just one step away from the workbench.

Have a nice day,

Chreese

 

[maxipouce]

So what tools are still Made in France.

Please have a look at the fourth page of that pdf file, they do not seem to scream where the sockets are made.

http://www.facom.com/fr/telechargement/Selection Automotive 2010 FRex.pdf

 

[Monte]

@chreese: welcome back
very nice wrench collection !!
The Garant wrench looks like a Stahlwille open box 13 series

yes those Facom ratchets have a nice finish. Almost US/Taiwan quality finish
And the prices are good too.......

ps:
In the new screwdriver test they now say that the other drivers have better ergonomic handles...

You don't have a Rotring pencil?

here a pic i made extra for you The famous Rotring "Tikky" writing tool

I like those Bahco adjustable wrenches. But aren't they rather pricey compared to other adjustable wrenches? Monte, do you really use them? Or do you prefer the (Knipex, VBW) pliers wrenches in case you don't have the appropriate fixed-size wrench for a certain job?

normally they`re pricey but for the 4" and 6" i only paid 5.-€ each , the 10" was 10.-€, for the 8" i paid 12,50 ea. (1 phosphated finish, 1 chrome plated)
So they were actually cheaper than the chinese ones And Bahcos are my favorites. On the other hand that`s still expensive if you consider that i don`t use them So to answer your question, yes i don`t use them, i prefer the "pliers wrenches" because they are superior tools. The jaws are always tight on the nut/bolt which is sometimes difficult to achieve if you use an adjustable wrench and the plier wrenches are still tighter since they are self locking/tightening so a nut/bolt which you grab can`t be moved sideways which is possible with the adjustable wrenches because they never can grab the nut/bolt as good (tight) as a pliers wrench. It is especially important to use a pliers wrench on "delicate" fittings which are made out of softer materials:

BTW, which T-handle hex-screwdrivers do you like better - Wiha or Hafu? I also own both but only use the Wiha drivers since they are stored on a tool board just one step away from the workbench.

I didn`t really used them lot since most bolts i encounter are outside hex. But i think i have a tendency towards the Wiha ones with the blade in the middle.

 

[american lockpicker]

Speaking of writing insturments Monte do you have any Mont Blancs? I used to have one in 2006 and it cost $200 used.

 

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

Thanks for your kind words.

The Garant wrench looks like a Stahlwille open box 13 series

Yes, absolutely. Unfortunately, I didn't have a Stahlwille No. 13 wrench at hand when I took those pics, otherwise I would have taken a photo of the Garant and the Stahlwille wrenches side-by-side.

yes those Facom ratchets have a nice finish. Almost US/Taiwan quality finish
And the prices are good too.......

I wouldn't be disappointed if Facom continued to produce them in Europe. Although Facom's customer service isn't as good as Stahlwille's or Hazet's customer treatment from my experiences, I will probably buy a few Facom tools. Facom should add a fine tooth '1/4" Umschaltknarre mit Verriegelung' to their program. I know at least two persons who would purchase it.

here a pic i made extra for you The famous Rotring "Tikky" writing tool

Thanks. I use my classic style Tikkys regularly.

normally they`re pricey but for the 4" and 6" i only paid 5.-€ each , the 10" was 10.-€, for the 8" i paid 12,50 ea. (1 phosphated finish, 1 chrome plated)

Great prices! Would you mind sharing your source?

Regards,

Chreese

 

[Monte]

Speaking of writing insturments Monte do you have any Mont Blancs? I used to have one in 2006 and it cost $200 used.

No unfortunately not. It`s a shame i know The factory is just 3 km away from me... The only brands i can pay for are Rotring, Staedtler, Pelikan, Faber-Castell, Schneider, Edding, Senator, Lamy......not as prestigious as Montblanc but they write too

....one fine day......

 

[american lockpicker]

Ah the Meisterstuck I almost got one once back when the economy was doing better.

 

[american lockpicker]

The one I had was similar to this.

 

[Monte]

Facom should add a fine tooth '1/4" Umschaltknarre mit Verriegelung' (Quick release) to their program. I know at least two persons who would purchase it.

you and your alter ego ??
If they make one for me which looks like this then yes:

Great prices! Would you mind sharing your source?

I bought them at a local store here,but i promised the employee not to tell where i buy all the tools for cheap because it could affect his workplace.......


hmm the Garant wrenches do look nice, not as nice as original Stahlwille though The Stahlwille beam design is still unsurpassed.

my favorite Stahlwille wrenches: "Stahlwille Stabil 20" deep offset wrenches with the old forgings:

ps: i forgot to mention the ratcheting action of the pliers wrench which is another nice feature compared to the adjustable wrenches !!


here the other 8" Bahco adjustable wrench:

chrome plated vs. phosphate finish

8" Bahco vs. 8" Facom

also looks good with red handle

the "naked" Facom wrenches looks nice too....

@
american lockpicker
if i win in the lottery i get me one (or more) of these "Meisterstück" ("Masterpiece") pens and donate you one

 

[american lockpicker]

Sounds like a plan. Also I didn't know Falcom made that wrench for Snap-On. How much is one of those? If its around $50 and made in France I'll pay my local dealer or Chad a visit.

 

[american lockpicker]

Some pics.

 

[Monte]

The Snap-on wrench is from Bahco (origin: sweden) the Facom wrench is from Facom (maybe )

Facom adjustables (older style) starting at $12: click

Facom new style at Ebay.uk (they have the lowest prices on Facom stuff in Europe): click

Ebay.com is full of the Bahco`s: click (Ergo handle, metal handle, wide jaws etc....)

Chrome plated Snap-on 10" (origin: sweden) = $50.50
Chrome plated Bahco 10" (Origin: Sweden) = $27.50

this one is still on my wishlist

 

[Vinko]

Unfortunately the Young Bros. website give no information which hardness their stamps have.
Another source of steel letters + numbers is "Turnus" from germany which are available from Samstagsales click
I`ve sent Heidenpeter a mail requesting info if they have a US distributor.
Here is their Ebay shop in DE for prices: click/08704-20_zoom.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks Monte for the info. I think McMaster-Carr sells the Young Bros. stamps, among others. They have hardness ratings there, but not brand name to correlate with.

I notice you posted the Promat/Osca hammers. I'm looking for about a 2 kilo hammer. Top of the line. Who makes the best in Germany or more broadly, in Europe.

Mostly for hitting stamps into very hard metal.

 

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

Some while back you asked for a couple of close-up pics of files, rasps and pliers. I hope I can fulfill your request.

@Vinko
I don't know which company produces the best hammer in Europe but I don't think you can go wrong with Halder, Osca, Habero/Gedore and Peddinghaus.

Have a nice day,

Chreese

 

[Monte]

Thanks for the pics chreese ! The rasp/file looks good with a nice and even cut (from what i can see ) The Berner/NWS pliers look good too !!

@Vinko

Chreese already mentioned the main manufacturers
here a list of some hammer manufacturers in the EU:

www.gedore.com
www.osca.it
www.moboutillage.com ("Peddinghaus" in .DE,.CH and .AT)
www.picard-hammer.de
www.zubi-ondo.com
www.sumbitec.es
www.leborgne.fr
www.halder.de
www.peugeot-muller.com
www.eurotools.net
www.holtmann-werkzeuge.de

I don`t know about the other companies like Facom, Hazet etc. if they make their own or buy them, probably the latter.

Most often you`ll see Gedore, Peddinghaus, Picard and latterly also Osca (often rebadged) over here.

-------------------------

aaarrghhh bandwith exceeded...... Does someone know something similar like Photobucket without pop up banners etc and for free ??

hmm imageshack should work for a while

PS: what size monitor do you guys have ??

 

[dede2897234]

Monte,

I use Photobucket to post images of tools to this forum. No pop-up ads come up on my computer when using Photobucket. The only ads that I encounter on Photobucket are embedded within its webpages. I have not had any problems with these ads interfering or slowing me down in terms of uploading images to Photobucket.

After taking pictures with my digital camera, I reduce the photo size and quality with a free Windows program called "Irfanview". The program is compatible with Windows XP to Windows 7. I noticed that it takes forever to upload to Photobucket a multiple megabyte photo versus a 50 KB JPEG picture (after processing it with Irfanview). In Irfanview, I use "Resize/Resample image" option (under the "Image" menu) to set the picture's width to 620 pixels and the DPI to 72 (reduces the image quality). Once you modify the image, click the "File" menu and select "Save as". A "JPEG/GIF save options" window will appear (to the right of the "Save Picture As" window) and provide the ability to further reduce the image quality using the "Save quality" slider bar. I move the slider bar to the "50" mark. I hope you find this information helpful.


Dave

 

[redsky49]

I wasn't aware that Wiha also made wrenches. Are these merely relabeled? Anyone have any experience with them?

 

[superautobacs]

Redsky49, I'll quickly provide you with an answer.

Yes, you're correct that Wiha does not make their own wrenches. Wiha USA has their own lineup of hand tools that does not mirror that of Wiha Europe's offering. Those wrenches, as far as I can recall, are provided by a company called Heyco

 

[Monte]

yes Superautobacs is right.
The ratchets and sockets (except bit sockets) are also from Heyco which you can see even written on the sockets:

Ratchet also easily identifiable

Wiha ratchet:

some pics of regular Heyco wrenches and Heyco "Maxline" wrenches: click

Heyco catalog: click (PDF)

The Wiha punches seem to be "Heynen" brand (= Heyco)
catalog: click (PDF)


The "Wiha" crimping + wire stripping tools are obviously made by Pressmaster from Sweden.


@Dave:
i just use the photobucket resize option, the pics stay below 1MB i think (1024+768 pic) . Honestly I`am also too lazy to "rework" the pics So i just got a imageshack account too ....

 

[redsky49]

Hmm... Curiouser and curiouser.

So the Europeans do as much outsourcing as the US manufacturers!?

I have a Wiha needle nose pliers (not real impressed with) that I suspect were not of their manufacture, as well as a Felo pliers that I am guessing may also be outsourced.

Just don't know who to trust these days

Thanks for the input.

 

[superautobacs]

redsky,

I also have Wiha needle-nose pliers that I'm not overly happy about, but at least it does what it's asked to do.... Perhaps you're right, that the pliers are outsourced from another German manufacturer that specializes in providing OEM services (there are many Germany).

Monte has covered this before, but the Felo pliers are outsourced; they are the product of NWS.

Outsourcing pretty is much universal among any major tool brand that offers a well-rounded lineup of hand tools to the consumer, whether it be North American, European, or Asian origin.

 

[Chreese]

Servus, folks,

Thanks for the pics chreese ! The rasp/file looks good with a nice and even cut (from what i can see )

I just uploaded the full-sized high resolution pics of the files.
Photo_01
Photo_02
Photo_03

@Vinko

Chreese already mentioned the main manufacturers
here a list of some hammer manufacturers in the EU:

Stubai, Krenhof and Sonneck also offer hammers.

I don`t know about the other companies like Facom, Hazet etc. if they make their own or buy them, probably the latter.

The price of the Hazet hammers is ... well, it has reached a certain level that is too high for me. The Hazet hammers cost more than the Habero/Gedore hammers which are better constructed in my opinion.

PS: what size monitor do you guys have ??

15" and just like Dave, I use Irfanview in order to resized and upload my pics. Those functions are easy to learn, work well and quickly.

Chreese

PS/Edit:

Since Wiha pliers are being discussed at the moment, I just added a pair of Inomic pliers to my collection. I don't expect them to provide me with more gripping force than regular pliers but the handle style might be comfortable to use at certain applications.

BTW, does anyone of you own (and use) any Heyco tools? Are you satisfied? The finish appears to be nice for sure.

 

[superautobacs]

Lockpicker,

Do you know if this Petzl Myo XP is made in France?

SK/Facom trim removers (Made in France):

Monte,

Here's the wille' that I got at the flea. The finish isn't has clean as the real deal though: