Tools from the old world

[scarrylarry]

Re: Tools from the old world/Superautobacs

Superautobacs
Thanks for the information regarding the German made tools!
scarrylarry

 

[Monte]

Monte, is the bauhaus strictly a tool store, or is it a auto parts place as well?
what ever it is, it look's amazingly fun to go to.

it´s like "Home Depot" like BWright said

Are there photos of this obi store. I have never been to a store that has a selection of hand tools like that, I want to see more.

see page 128

Monte, you spoke of chanellock before, i was wondering what other U.S. tools are sold there, for instance, klein, crescent, channellock, hell what about craftsmen.

sometimes you see craftsman on ebay.de. Surprisingly it seems that the lawn mower tractors are officially sold here (?) I once found a store who offered the Armstrong Eliminator set, Ullmann is sold by a store here, The Crescent adjustable ratchet wrench is sold here also rebranded as "KWB" a electronic supply store sells Crescent tool sets in plastic cases. Sometimes you see Nicholson. But these brands are rather rare. Stanley and Irwin are more common though. Snap-On is also available here. There is a wholesaler who offers a couple of "Xuron" pliers, Channellock is distributed in germany through a special car tools distributor/manufacturer. But at 2 to 3 times the prices of a similar Knipex product i dont think that they sell well. "Weller" soldering tools are quite common here and "Erem" pliers are available here too, ok not USA brands , but both belong to Cooper tools/Apex.
The majority of tools here are from germany/europe or imported from Taiwan/China/India though. The most well known brands from the USA are probably Stanley and "Vise-Grip". Never saw Mac, Matco, Wright, Klein, Cornwell SK etc. here.

I purchased my first knipex recently and can not be any more happy with them, the only other german tools i have are stabilia, festool and fein ,i have one lone 3/8 drive 10 mm allen hazzet. I like the way they are installed in the drive compared to my mac set, they has slop and held in by a pin.

post some pics

Monte: Carhartt's USA made brand with the double knee are durable, but for the summer, those Blakader's are a lot easier to wear in the heat. And so far, worth what I paid. I picked up catalogs from Fristad and one of the other places, Rofa, I think, and am checking them out. I wear through work clothes quick, so if I can buy good stuff, and buy a whole week's worth in one go, I'm good..

What about Dickies ? I once had a "fisher stripe" Dickies coverall which i liked very much because it was not so tight like the ones you find here.

ps: Do the employer or employee in the USA have to pay for the work clothes ?

Monte: I can see some of your pics now, others half load then the remainder is grey. It changes each time I view the thread too. Maybe its just my internet connection!

i dunno i see everything. Sometimes it dont work with others pics so i close other windows and reload the page and then it works most often. There is also no bandwith limit which could exceed @ imageshack so i dunno ?

Also, do you know if Stahlwille make socket rails? Im sure I've seen some green ones than stand the sockets up as opposed to the simple metal clip rails, but I cannot remember who makes them!

the only ones i know of are the metal ones, others are not in the german stahlwille catalog. Maybe from a other company or from one of Stahlwille subsidiaries since they also can offer other tools which are not from Stahlwille so there are Stahlwille tool bags and stahlwille air tools for example - so maybe its a offering from Stahlwille UK ??

Ordered the NWS ones today. My Knipex arrived yesterday, not impressed with them. They're not even half as nice as my NWS combination pliers. They have nice grips, but the jaws and finish isn't nearly as good as that of NWS. Quite disappointed, really.

Review & comparasin to come soon.

pls post some pics. If you´re not happy i would return them. Do you have a walk-in store who offers Knipex ?






Witte hook + pick set

 

[matthew]

Stanley and Irwin are more common though. Snap-On is also available here. There is a wholesaler who offers a couple of "Xuron" pliers, Channellock is distributed in germany through a special car tools distributor/manufacturer. But at 2 to 3 times the prices of a similar Knipex product i dont think that they sell well.

Pretty much the opposite with Channellocks here in Canada. You can buy them at most hardware stores, and a set of 10" (250mm) water pump pliers will cost maybe $20-$25, or as little as $12-$15 on sale. I've never seen Knipex in a walk-in store here, but one retailer in another city has comparable Cobra pliers on their webpage for $50-$80. So if you want Channellocks for some reason, I'd be glad to ship you some in exchange for shipping some Knipex here

 

[blue dog]

Here is the difference between mac and hazet. The hazett is superior.
Here in california, the only place i have seen knipex is Loews, and there selection is very small.

 

[Monte]

So if you want Channellocks for some reason, I'd be glad to ship you some in exchange for shipping some Knipex here

The Channelock i have was removed from the dealers catalog so it was for sale for about 11.- instead of 47,90 €. I guess the other pliers will be removed from the catalog too maybe in 2011 so i think i can get them for a good price then.

here are some prices:

side cutters:

needle nose pliers. Ok the Channellock version is the "Heavy Duty" type #318. The regular type would be probably cheaper.

not a big price difference between the Channellock + Alligators in the 300mm version. 240/250mm 10.- € difference which is a lot since 10 Euro once was about 20 German Mark

 

[matthew]

The Channelock i have was removed from the dealers catalog so it was for sale for about 11.- instead of 47,90 €. I guess the other pliers will be removed from the catalog too maybe in 2011 so i think i can get them for a good price then.

I'm not sure why you'd even be looking at Channellock - it's good stuff, but when you have equally good stuff available for better prices, then the only reason to have it is because it's unique (at least in Germany).

There's actually both 240mm and 250mm versions of the Channellock water pump pliers (models 420 and 430), and the 250mm are usually cheaper than the 240mm for some reason I've never understood.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Ordered the NWS ones today. My Knipex arrived yesterday, not impressed with them. They're not even half as nice as my NWS combination pliers. They have nice grips, but the jaws and finish isn't nearly as good as that of NWS. Quite disappointed, really.

Review & comparasin to come soon.

I'm very interested in your comparison. I love Knipex, but they aren't always the best. My Wiha Linesman's pliers kick the **** out of the Knipex version. My Wiha Needle Nose (200mm) also kicks the **** out of anything by Knipex. However, combination pliers are ruled by Knipex as well as their Cobra line and their Pliers Wrenches.

However, I'm interested in NWS. I've always heard great things about them. I'm in the market for a new Cobolt cutter (Knipex) and would like to give NWS a try. But, I'm in SoCal. No NWS anywhere. Not even online such as eBay, Amazon, etc.

When can I get them in SoCal!?

 

[Monte]

then the only reason to have it is because it's unique (at least in Germany).

that´s why Also i want to check out how the americans make tools and it´s also boring to have only one or 2 brands.

There's actually both 240mm and 250mm versions of the Channellock water pump pliers (models 420 and 430), and the 250mm are usually cheaper than the 240mm for some reason I've never understood.

i only like Cobra´s anyway or similar "push-button" pliers. Everything else is too annoying



Regarding the finish of pliers: The new Wiha pliers have a really nice finish and also chrome plated pliers often seem to have a better finish than the polished ones.
Other plier manufacturers to check out other than Knipex or NWS: Gedore, VBW, Facom, Bahco.

When can I get them in SoCal!?

The best is to contact the canadian distributor HIPA tools , maybe they have a dealer somewhere in cali ?

 

[superautobacs]

Did something happen at the forging press

 

[The Muffin Man]

Did something happen at the forging press

All of my NWS combination pliers have the same teeth profile. I would venture a guess that they are designed this way to provide a better grip for round stock / small diameter pipes. The NWS combination pliers seem to have more bite than the other brands that I've used.

 

[superautobacs]

All of my NWS combination pliers have the same teeth profile. I would venture a guess that they are designed this way to provide a better grip for round stock / small diameter pipes. The NWS combination pliers seem to have more bite than the other brands that I've used.

Interesting. Would somebody like to demonstrate this with pictures: how the profile is better suited for grabbing differing stock diameters than the conventional profile on the combi. pliers?

 

[Monte]

yeah they are all like that, i have 3 NWS 180mm combination pliers. Also the pliers in the stores look like that as well as the rebranded ones. The broaching tool who forms the teeth must look like that. I think The Muffin Man is right with what he wrote.


here a close up pic:

 

[superautobacs]

I remember there was a discussion about work-wear. I came across a post on my local CL; he's selling Björnkläder stuff.

Here's the link: http://neckdownworkwear.com/ and the catalogue in pdf: http://neckdownworkwear.com/handycraft.pdf

This is Björnkläder's homepage

 

[epiphany]

My cousin came in from Germany and brought me some NWS heavy duty side cutters and angled needle nose pliers.
Here they are all together.

That shop is awesome Monte, I wish there were more places in the UK that offered walk-in good brands off the shelf.

But the prices are expensive. Internet prices are sometimes half of the amount local store wants.

they even still have the old school handled Lux/Felo screwdrivers which "dlfiene" here once posted in blue. This time in red:

Amazing. OBI got the best selection of pliers and screwdrivers. After i saw your picture, i needed a box and bought them. But from Amazon. They sell LUX stuff, too. Did you remember the price?

Btw. nice pictures. Can't take my eyes of them.

 

[Monte]

Did you remember the price?

the 6 piece screwdriver set (slotted/PH) was 21,95 IIRC and the 6 pc. Torx set 24,95 € IIRC

edit: just found the Amazon prices 11,21 and 17,08 euros that sounds better.....

 

[impulse922]

@ Monte
the prices on the channel lock are craaaaazy in germany. (like double the price they are in USD, with exchange rates)

do you feel the pb picks have rather small handles too?

and just to contribute a little..

 

[Monte]

Yeah the Channellock prices are a little bit "ill".... maybe because the european importer in Denmark has to earn money, then the german distributor who buys them from Denmark and finally the dealer has to earn money too ....

I already was waiting for the PB pic when you posted it in the other thread ! sweet !!!

yes i think the PB handles are a bit tiny, hence i bought another (and another ) set , also a real "hook" is misssing in the PB "Hook + Pick" set. The "Turnus" handles fit well in my hand (middle size between Witte + PB)

 

[matthew]

So if anyone knows the answer to this question, I'm sure it'll be you guys...

My father has these water pump pliers, two pairs. They are basically identical, except for a few small details. They're pictured with my Channellock 420's for comparison. Apart from the different colour handles, the "alloy steel" lettering looks slightly different. The black handled pair has slightly better finishing (forgings were ground a little smoother). The black handled pair also has a small lightly engraved "Made in Western Germany" marking on it that doesn't appear on the orange handled pair. There are no makers markings visible.

They're both actually really nice older pliers. I don't know where he got them, but they're likely 30-40 years old. Anyone have any idea who made them? Perhaps the "alloy steel" marking was an insert in the forging dies that they could remove their manufacturer markings, to be able to rebadge them for a distributor. Or maybe the marking was lightly etched or printed on the handles and has worn off.

Guess I need to buy Dad some tool dip, as well, to fix those black handles...

 

[Monte]

hm difficult to say without name.... Could be old pliers from www.orbis-werk.de or www.will-werkzeuge.de or even Knipex ? black handles remind me on Hazet, here is the recent Hazet version: click
But looks a bit different (jaw design). I also dont think Hazet make/made pliers.
Could also supplied by a company which dont exist anymore or just an very old design . So i dont know.

Here a version from "Orbis", but also looks different...

 

[Vinko]

What about Dickies ? I once had a "fisher stripe" Dickies coverall which i liked very much because it was not so tight like the ones you find here.

ps: Do the employer or employee in the USA have to pay for the work clothes ?

Dickie's went off-shore. Made in Mexico and Honduras now. But the quality seems okay. The fabric takes abuse of chemicals and grease and oil and comes out fairly clean. I don't have the Dickie's overalls. I should get some, what I have is something from a local catalog, McMaster-Carr. But even the "long" sizes almost castrate you when you try to get out of them. The cut isn't so good.

As for who pays: in my case, I'm the employer, I pay for the shirts: t-shirts and workshirts and I reimburse for ASTM-grade workboots up to US$60. But I don't think there's a law either way, unless it'd directly related to safety. For boots, you can require it, but you don't have to pay for it. I think you have to pay for "high-visibility" yellow clothing.

I was alerted however to the fact that some of the workers I hire who were from Mexico originally, will wear their work clothes out to the Disco (don't ask), and this increases wear.

I've supplied shop aprons and shop coats, but these get "abused" in a way that wouldn't if guys had to pay for them themselves, so I'm rethinking this policy. I've had guys who break the ******** an apron, and want a new one, and I have new ties sewn on.

I should stay off this topic the waste of money pisses me of

 

[Rural53]

Wolf Sapphire Drill - Made in England, sold in NewZealand

 

[Monte]

Dickie's went off-shore. Made in Mexico and Honduras now. But the quality seems okay. The fabric takes abuse of chemicals and grease and oil and comes out fairly clean. I don't have the Dickie's overalls. I should get some, what I have is something from a local catalog, McMaster-Carr. But even the "long" sizes almost castrate you when you try to get out of them. The cut isn't so good.

But the Dickies prices are not that expensive (in the USA at least) so the price/performance ratio is good i think.

I've supplied shop aprons and shop coats, but these get "abused" in a way that wouldn't if guys had to pay for them themselves, so I'm rethinking this policy. I've had guys who break the ******** an apron, and want a new one, and I have new ties sewn on.

I should stay off this topic the waste of money pisses me of

Make the employees responsible for "their" clothes and give them only 1 shirt/trouser a year or maybe rent work clothes (but i dont know what about damages though)

I was alerted however to the fact that some of the workers I hire who were from Mexico originally, will wear their work clothes out to the Disco (don't ask), and this increases wear.

may i ask.... you must have fancy work wear ? shoes made of crocodile leather ? fur coat ? or a "zoot suit" ?


@Rural53:
interesting drill !! Never heard of this brand !






Some "Bertool" wrenches:

 

[superautobacs]

Mmmm, those deep offsets are tasty looking and must be a lot more affordable than the Willes.

Cool, Stahlwille revamped their homepage.

 

[maxipouce]

Wow, from my mother's toolbox;

 

[dede2897234]

Some "Bertool" wrenches:

Monte,

Does one ring end of the double box wrench have a 90* offset and the other have a 45* offset? Do you have a link to this Bertool wrench on Stahlwille's website?

Is there an advantage in an automotive repair situation to a double box wrench having a 90* offset versus a 75* offset?

Is there another hand tool manufacturer that sells a double ring wrench with a 90* offset?


Thanks,

Dave

 

[mrholeshot]

Those Bertools are cool!!

 

[jk47]

Is Bertool a lower cost line than Stahlwille?

 

[impulse922]

Is Bertool a lower cost line than Stahlwille?

+1 Is bertool to stahlwille as carolus is to gedore?

 

[superautobacs]

Here's an answer: Bertool's background

 

[ash95608]

I recently bought some Hazet 600n wrenches to add to my set and they do not look like the ones I had. Does anyone know if they have changed forging dies or is it a mistake. I have attached a picture. If anyone has any info let me know thanks

 

[beelsr]

I'm going to guess no because they're different sizes at each end...

Does one ring end of the double box wrench have a 90* offset and the other have a 45* offset?

 

[Cantause]

Hi guys!

Sorry for not posting since a long time, exams, vacations...

I saw some really nice tools in the last pages of this thread, congratulations to all of their (happy) owners.

I also did some little purchases in the last months too, so here are the pics (Facom of course )

Some second hand circlip pliers:

3/4 ratchet (with his 1/4 brother)

Small 2 legs puller

I'll also post pics of my "new" vises a rothenberger (Heuer 120 in red) (thanks Monte ) and a Leinen E 125, not in the best shape but internal beauty is the most important right ?

 

[Cantause]

Here are the Rothenberger vises that Monte found for me on ebay.be

Rothenberger 120 (from Heuer, fixed jaws), new but a bit rusted on the handle...

Rothenberger pipe vise, look a bit "cheap" cast iron but as I had to pick up the Heuer at the seller's place I also bought it for a few euros, you never have too many tools right?

@Monte

Now I understand what you meant by "so so" concerning the finish of Heuer's vises. It's not bad, but on the Heuer's website their vises look finished at an higher level than their competitors, in reality it's an average finish...
However the slides of the fix part are quite small and powder coated as the rest of the vise, it doesn't feel that they have the sense of detail...

 

[Monte]

Mmmm, those deep offsets are tasty looking and must be a lot more affordable than the Willes.

Cool, Stahlwille revamped their homepage.

very tasty !!
yes a lot more affordable since they came for free together with the Bertool screwdrivers

Wow, from my mother's toolbox;

cool mum !!!!

Monte,

Does one ring end of the double box wrench have a 90* offset and the other have a 45* offset? Do you have a link to this Bertool wrench on Stahlwille's website?

Is there an advantage in an automotive repair situation to a double box wrench having a 90* offset versus a 75* offset?

Is there another hand tool manufacturer that sells a double ring wrench with a 90* offset?


Thanks,

Dave

hi Dave,
it only looks like 90 degree ... the pic dont show that both ends are 75 degree.....
I think there is nobody who makes 90 degree wrenches ? Here´s a link to the Bertool catalog: http://stahlwille.pl/images/bertool.pdf

Those Bertools are cool!!

yep !!

+1 Is bertool to stahlwille as carolus is to gedore?

yes

I recently bought some Hazet 600n wrenches to add to my set and they do not look like the ones I had. Does anyone know if they have changed forging dies or is it a mistake. I have attached a picture. If anyone has any info let me know thanks

the wrench on top has the old forging the wrench at the bottom is the new style

@Cantause:
nice stuff !!!!!!!! The 3/4" Facom ratchet is cute !! cool !!! want !
I think for the price you paid for the Rothenberger stuff it´s pretty good !!
Yes in "real life" the vises look different than in the internet
They could grind/finish the vise better (the sides of the forged parts). But after a while the vise looks f****d up anyway then paint it with "Hammerite" and you don´t see anything anymore
But if you´re not happy sell it to me ... 37.- for the vise... ok its used now so lets say 25.- ....

 

[BWright]

Ok, I've been waiting quite a while to be able to post in this thread. Here are my tools from the old world.

Some Witte's. I love those napa branded Protops.

Here is my single PB Swiss driver, don't worry more on the way though! Also, a lux branded Felo driver. So comfortable.

 

[Cantause]

@Cantause:
nice stuff !!!!!!!! The 3/4" Facom ratchet is cute !! cool !!! want !
I think for the price you paid for the Rothenberger stuff it´s pretty good !!
Yes in "real life" the vises look different than in the internet
They could grind/finish the vise better (the sides of the forged parts). But after a while the vise looks f****d up anyway then paint it with "Hammerite" and you don´t see anything anymore
But if you´re not happy sell it to me ... 37.- for the vise... ok its used now so lets say 25.- ....

Yes it's a nice little tool that you should find in any decent woman's handbag I bought it to use it on larger size stuck bolts (21+) when the 1/2 ratchet is a bit "short" to have a comfortable torque without sweating...
Sorry about the Rothenberger vise, I've just degreased and re-greased it, it will make a nice paper weight!

I saw a few pages earlier that you were talking about the origin of Bosch power tools, here is my collection with the origin of each tool:

GSR 14,4 ve-2 cordless drill made in Switzerland

GSR screwdriver (Switzerland) GDR (Malaysia) impact gun and flashlight (China) all in 10,8

GST 75 BE jig saw (Switzerland)

GBH 2-26 DFR hammer drill (Germany)

DLE 70 laser level (Romania)

Switzerland seems to be their favorite place for producing tools and up to now I can't complain about the quality of their products. Just maybe the quality of the cordless drill batteries, I noticed that they last less time than they used to... I'm happy with the cordless drill itself which a bit heavy but has a lot of torque. No problem with big screws in hard wood but it's not the best tool when you work on ceilings, I'll buy a lighter one for that, Makita this time...

 

[Vinko]

@Canteuse: those Rothenberger vises are super nice. Love the Bosch drills too. Though I have to say that I prefer the Hilti jigsaw to the Bosch. I bough both, and reach for the Hilti every time.

may i ask.... you must have fancy work wear ? shoes made of crocodile leather ? fur coat ? or a "zoot suit" ?

No, just a cotton/poly collared work shirt with pockets from Dickies. Don't even ask about the psychology of the thing, because I don't understand it.

 

[Monte]

@BWright:
nice NAPA Protops !!!! I like !!!!!
Which handle do you like better ? Protop or Maxxpro ?

@Cantause:
a 3/4" ratchet is also on my wish list, i think it is a brighter idea to use a 3/4" tool instead of a longer and longer 1/2" ratchet.

ps: Nice Bosch lineup !!!!!!! I`m jealous

No, just a cotton/poly collared work shirt with pockets from Dickies. Don't even ask about the psychology of the thing, because I don't understand it.

ok i don´t ask - don´t understand it either
Or maybe you should forbid them to breakdance so the clothes will last longer

 

[Monte]

Flea market finds:

old "Witte" screwdriver set

"Witte" nutdriver

Awl made by "Schlagring" ( "Schlagring" = "brass knuckles" )

"Dowidat" socket

 

[BWright]

@BWright:
nice NAPA Protops !!!! I like !!!!!
Which handle do you like better ? Protop or Maxxpro ?

For everyday use the maxxpro's handles seem kinda fat. The Protops are super comfortable and are wonderful to use. So I would have to say the Protops, but I could see the maxxpros being great if I really need to put some torque on something.