Tools from the old world

[Jononon]

From Farnell's website it says the last main production step of the 440's has been done in Italy.

Putting them in the box?

Facom 440s are made in Taiwan, by Rotar

 

[The Muffin Man]

I am fairly certain that Steve from ultimategarage.com confirmed that the COO of the 440 series is the Czech Republic.


Edit: Quoted from ultimategarage...

"Note - Facom produces these wrenches in the Czech Republic (part of the EU)....they are not being made by Toptul (in Taiwan). Toptul's "Super-Torque" combination wrenches are very similar to the 440 but Toptul does not yet offer fractional sizes in this series."

http://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/part.php?products_id=3755&osCsid=3nh6oksmu3i2e4pu8b0dfv78o4

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Anyone know where you can buy Eszet tools?

They make some special tools for VW-Audi, i have one of their socket drivers and it's really nice.

http://www.eszet-werkzeug.de/index.php?page=home/home.php

 

[Monte]

HaHa borneo screwdrivers
those screws were invented so one can use either a flat or o pozidriv screwdriver and those morons have managed to invent a tool that can only be used on recent electrical material,.... pfffffff.

right tool for the right job
Also slotted drivers **** anyway because they dont center themselves like crosshead etc. and i can bet with you that a slotted-PZ or slotted-PH driver has a better fit than a slotted or PH/ PZ driver.


@epiphany:
nice Circum set !! Where did you find it ??????
Where did you buy the Meister driver ? regular Toom or Toom Baumarkt ??
The Felo socket set looks imported. I think nobody here made such ratchets.... (?)
The Felo hard handles look nice, especially those with the yellow sleeve


@chreese:
nice Garant ratchet !! Does the handle have "ribs" (on the side ?) like the PB handles ?


@AlexRS: nice Facom tools + Lux pin punches !


@Cantause:
wow nice Mitutoyo mics + tools !! Did you win in the lottery ???

The "Drehmotec" torque wrench in this test: http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/jj347/mrblvd_album/Seite173.jpg is a Gedore product.
The Carolus wrenches seem to be identical to the no longer offered Gedore/ Rahsol "TorcoFLEX" wrenches. The Gedore "TorcoFIX" wrenches have a finer adjustment. They have a extra scale and you can set the 20-200NM version with increments of 1 NM ( 55 NM, 56 NM, 57 NM etc.) the Carolus version only 5 NM ( 50 NM, 55 NM, 60 NM etc.) for example.
So the Gedore version is a better product imho. Good prices see ebay.
There are other branded wrenches available from "Format" and "Promat" for example.
The quality/construction should be same though. PS: never heard about the 40% story. Where did you read that ? (manufacturers link ?)

btw: the new 2010 Carolus catalog as PDF: click
new website: www.carolus.de


@Moose:
if you look for Eszet special tools/original VAG tools you can find them here:
http://www.xxl-automotive.de/Original-VAG-Werkzeuge/

 

[AlexRS]

I am fairly certain that Steve from ultimategarage.com confirmed that the COO of the 440 series is the Czech Republic.


Edit: Quoted from ultimategarage...

"Note - Facom produces these wrenches in the Czech Republic (part of the EU)....they are not being made by Toptul (in Taiwan). Toptul's "Super-Torque" combination wrenches are very similar to the 440 but Toptul does not yet offer fractional sizes in this series."

http://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/part.php?products_id=3755&osCsid=3nh6oksmu3i2e4pu8b0dfv78o4

was just reading about the similarity between the 440's (apparently made in the Czech Republic), the USAG 285 (probably made in the Czech Republic too) and the Toptul's (made by Rotar in Taiwan)

The USAG 285's are exactly the same as Facom 440's (as are most USAG tools), the Toptul's have similar ends and that's it.
Still don't know for sure who makes what or where but have no problem with Rotar made tools as long as they're built to high European standards.

@AlexRS: nice Facom tools + Lux pin punches !

Do you have any experience with the Facom Roll 6 carts? They seem good value for the money and I need something similar without emptying my pockets

It's this one:

 

[Jononon]

I am fairly certain that Steve from ultimategarage.com confirmed that the COO of the 440 series is the Czech Republic.

I'd like to believe that was true, but I don't understand why they're not on Facom's European production map nor why two OEM employees (reversegear on this board and someone who's known to me IRL) think that they're from Rotar

Steve Ultimate Garage's comment doesn't entirely make sense, either, Toptul isn't an OEM, it's a brand of Rotar.

 

[Monte]

The Facom customer service lady which i had on the phone once said "Taiwan" as the country of origin. They can look in their computer system and see where everything from Facom and Stanley is coming from. I posted this somewhere here, also with other products origins.


@AlexRS:
sorry never saw one of these "live"
I maybe would look for something used, since it´s more important (imho) to buy all necessary hand/electric/air/special tools first and (good/new) storage at last.

 

[The Muffin Man]

was just reading about the similarity between the 440's (apparently made in the Czech Republic), the USAG 285 (probably made in the Czech Republic too) and the Toptul's (made by Rotar in Taiwan)

The USAG 285's are exactly the same as Facom 440's (as are most USAG tools), the Toptul's have similar ends and that's it.
Still don't know for sure who makes what or where but have no problem with Rotar made tools as long as they're built to high European standards.

I'd like to believe that was true, but I don't understand why they're not on Facom's European production map nor why two OEM employees (reversegear on this board and someone who's known to me IRL) think that they're from Rotar

Steve Ultimate Garage's comment doesn't entirely make sense, either, Toptul isn't an OEM, it's a brand of Rotar.

I agree that it would make perfect sense that Rotar is the OEM of the 440 series

What is interesting to me is the timing that Rotar/Toptul and Facom announced their new wrenches (within several months.) The key benefits of the AAEW and 440 are also very similar as well, such as the box end profile, thicker beams, and the open end range of motion.


Here is the brochure of the AAEW and 440 respectively...

 

[AlexRS]

I agree that it would make perfect sense that Rotar is the OEM of the 440 series

Looking at the evidence and what Monte said I agree with both of you.

@AlexRS:
sorry never saw one of these "live"
I maybe would look for something used, since it´s more important (imho) to buy all necessary hand/electric/air/special tools first and (good/new) storage at last.

Since I'm bulding my tool collection for the second time, (life took a turn for the worse and I sold alot of tools and the toolbox), I will probably follow your advice, right know buying tools is more important

 

[The Muffin Man]

The Facom customer service lady which i had on the phone once said "Taiwan" as the country of origin. They can look in their computer system and see where everything from Facom and Stanley is coming from. I posted this somewhere here, also with other products origins.

Thank you Monte !

 

[Monte]

"Pimp my cordless drill" now available from Bosch bling bling baby !!
Bosch "Ixo" with swarovski crystals........................

(only a special model which you can win to celebrate 10 million sold units)

 

[Jeff]

 

[Vinko]

I've got that Wiha (red) pictured above with the multi-bits in the handle. Put that through a lot of use. They won't warranty bits in the US, but it's been a good tool.

 

[Jeff]

Sorry about the Crapsman drivers. They are up for replacement next.

 

[epiphany]

@epiphany:
nice Circum set !! Where did you find it ??????

eBay: 220638071069

Where did you buy the Meister driver ? regular Toom or Toom Baumarkt ??

Toom Baumarkt. They got three sorts of screwdrivers, some left overs from Meister, more Connex and mostly Merox. I think it's amazing that you could buy products which are older than twenty years.

The Felo socket set looks imported. I think nobody here made such ratchets.... (?)

I have no idea, never saw an old ratchet from germany. The handle says "Felo (Germany)", the other pieces only "chrom vanadium".

The Felo hard handles look nice, especially those with the yellow sleeve

The seller sent the wrong screwdriver set, the picture at the auction showed screwdriver without yellow sleeve, but i'll keep them .

 

[epiphany]

Staying in the metrology, here are my Mitutoyo measurement tools:

Micrometers: 0-25 ; 25-50 ; 75-100
Caliper 150 mm
Optical flats

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/IMG_0758.jpg

Gauge block set:

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/IMG_0753.jpg

Even chocolate would be expensive in that package, don't want to know what you paid. But it looks fantastic...

 

[dede2897234]

Sorry about the Crapsman drivers. They are up for replacement next.

Sharkin,

Have you used much the yellow Wiha MagicRing Screw Holding T-Handle set?
Are the ball end tips of the t-handles durable?
Do you find the screw holding function useful?


Thanks,

Dave

 

[Jeff]

Sharkin,

Have you used much the yellow Wiha MagicRing Screw Holding T-Handle set?
Are the ball end tips of the t-handles durable?
Do you find the screw holding function useful?


Thanks,

Dave

Yes, I like them very much. They do take a bit to get used to because you can come at the fastener at an angle not straight on as other drivers. That little fastener holding spring is truly amazing. Snap and go as I like to call it.

 

[Jeff]

 

[Monte]

eBay: 220638071069

Toom Baumarkt. They got three sorts of screwdrivers, some left overs from Meister, more Connex and mostly Merox. I think it's amazing that you could buy products which are older than twenty years.

ah ok i´ll try to check one of the Baumarkt stores.
I´m too amazed when you still find "W.Germany" products..

I have no idea, never saw an old ratchet from germany. The handle says "Felo (Germany)", the other pieces only "chrom vanadium".

do you have a better pic of the ratchet ?

The seller sent the wrong screwdriver set, the picture at the auction showed screwdriver without yellow sleeve, but i'll keep them .

these are even better, but if you don´t want them i´ll send you my adress...





some pics from my window shopping on sunday:
a small hardware store:

"Kirschen" anniversary hammer + chisel set

Makita + Flex tools

"Carolus" socket set

misc. saws from Felco and Opinel etc.

misc

Gesipa + Honsel riveters

"Laguiole" knives from France

misc. from Wera, Witte, Felo, Gedore, Bahco files and a "Rali " plane from switzerland

 

[Jeff]

Monte...I would be 'tool broke' if I lived over there.

 

[Krokodil]

Monte, the German stuff is just to die for!

 

[Monte]

Monte...I would be 'tool broke' if I lived over there.

By looking at the pics you posted here you can get "tool broke" pretty good in the US too




some more pics from my window shopping on sunday:
a store which mostly sell ship accessories

Kirschen wood chisels, Estwing + Picard hammer....

.... Elora + Elofort screwdrivers and a axe from Pfeil switzerland

Kirschen chisels and a small green plane from Kunz

japanese pull saws and tension saw from E.C. Emmerich

misc. Stanley tools + "Clifton" planes

some planes, misc tools and a Stanley vacuum bottle. Not THE Stanley though

 

[Jeff]

By looking at the pics you posted here you can get "tool broke" pretty good in the US too

Yes and no.

Everything I buy is online and it's hard to hold a tool and immediately fall in love. I have been converting the prices, some good, some not so good.

I would go in to every store and fondle every tool.

 

[Jeff]

Heyco Wrenches, West Germany, Pre-Wall

Four of those Heyco wrenches are marked BMW on the opposite side. Probably from an owner's tool kit.

 

[Monte]

some more pics from my window shopping on sunday:

Victorinox, Wenger, Kershaw, Leatherman + Puma Tec knifes/tools

LED-Lenser lights

Kampfmesser "KM 2000" , german army knife made by Eickhorn in Solingen www.original-eickhorn.de

Knipex, Wera, Proxxon

Proxxon socket sets

Wera set + Bosch laser distance meter

Makita

japanese hammer for only 473.60 €

"Anex" screwdrivers, "Dogyu" pry bar, "Pocket Boy" saw from Silky, "Engineer" screw pliers

Lie-Nielsen & Veritas planes

wood chisels from japan

japanese saws + plane + "ECE" plane

 

[AlexRS]

@Monte:

Nice window shopping
I would love to have stores like that here, I have to order most tools from the importers and wait, it's rare to hold a tool in my hand before buying it.

 

[JayL]

@ Monte

I wonder where the Makita power tools on display are made. Are these manufactured in PRC now?

tks

 

[aspera]

I think that Dogyu prybar is the same as the one I saw at Toolzone in Denver. 2 sizes IIRC. I couldn't figure out what was special about it...it just looked like a pry bar.

 

[Monte]

@AlexRS:
But there must be some stores who sell Palmera or Bahco etc. ??? What do they sell at the DIY stores ?

@JayL:
Most of the cordless drills don´t say anything, the Makita 6270 i have dont say anything too, only on the outer package "Made in PRC". The tools in the pic will be made in PRC too. The highest priced Makita LXT tools are also PRC. There is (was ?) a cordless drill "Makita 6317" which always was made in the USA or UK, i don´t know if they still make them there. The rule of thumb is: no origin on the tool = PRC.

@aspera:
.... a japanese pry bar ....

 

[GTVi]

Monte...I love your window shopping....perhaps some pictures of the flea markets also?

 

[JayL]

@ Monte - thanks for the info.

Here with us if it's written on the tool Makita Corporation then it's PRC. If just Makita then its Japanese made. Japan made NOS sometimes still available like angle grinders, die grinders, metal cutting saw, drills , routers etc.. more often than not these are the older models.

 

[Cantause]

@Cantause:
wow nice Mitutoyo mics + tools !! Did you win in the lottery ???

PS: never heard about the 40% story. Where did you read that ? (manufacturers link ?)

Thanks for the informations about the torque wrenches, I'll for a Gedore or Hazet so...
About the 40% rule it's just something I've heard on forums, I don't think that I saw it mentioned in something more "official"

Even chocolate would be expensive in that package, don't want to know what you paid. But it looks fantastic...

I got them as gift in my cornflakes box, making a big mess each time one fell down in the milk bowl, but I can't really complain, it's the first time that Kellogg's give such useful surprises

More seriously, I didn't pay a lot for them, the 0-25 and 25-50 were 60 € each, the 75-100 about 90€ or so, 45 for the caliper... from ebay but brand new in sealed packaging. I checked with the gauge blocks and they're really accurate (or as inaccurate as the gauge blocks)
The gauge block set and optical flats are second hand but in good condition, just need a good dial indicator to complete the set.

These tools are excellent, especially the mics, they're very well finished and give accurate measurement (compared with the gauge blocks). Retail prices are prohibitive but if you're patient you can get them at a fair price on ebay...

"Pimp my cordless drill" now available from Bosch bling bling baby !!
Bosch "Ixo" with swarovski crystals........................

Woww, I want one Will Bosch produce a full range of accessories? Just in case some sophisticated women would need basic tools in their Prada hand bags???

One of my last purchase, Bessey shears for carbon fibre:

 

[TjoFrasse]

Wow Monte! Thanks for the great pics!

I really wish there were shops like that around here. There's mostly Bahco's cheaper stuff or chain store brand chinese stuff around here. Thankfully Bauhaus at least has Knipex pliers and Wera drivers.

 

[AlexRS]

@AlexRS:
But there must be some stores who sell Palmera or Bahco etc. ??? What do they sell at the DIY stores ?

Mostly cheap chinese stuff like rebranded Varo, some Stanley, Bahco can be found sometimes but not always, and some lines of KWB and LUX.
The top brands are found only on specialized tool stores and have to be ordered from the importers or directly from the brands.
On the power tools front, everything is available without ordering and waiting.

 

[Mike 47]

Felo bitholder & Felo bit ratchet

How do you like the long bit holder? I've gone back and forth about buying it, the holder area seems bulky, like it might get in the way.

 

[Monte]

@GTVi:
I will try to make some pics of the flea market on saturday !


@JayL:
In most cases the lower priced entry level models from other manufacturers are also imported... Especially cordless tools are most often imported already. There are a few exceptions from Metabo + Bosch though and i think the highest priced Hitachi cordless drills are still from Japan.


@TjoFrasse
... and don´t forget you have the Bahco factory outlet store !!!
If you´re looking for other tools there is a Hazet dealer in Örebro + Saltsjö-Boo www.motorwallin.se www.spekuma.se or www.hanssonfrife.se in Spånga (Wera, Knipex, Rennsteig, Hafu, Bessey etc.)


@AlexRS: Some of the LUX stuff is ok, pliers from NWS + Will, screwdriers Felo, Hammers from Gedore (w. yellow steel sleeve), club hammers from Osca, punches + chisels from Padre-Tirem ( at least if you have the same tools than we have here )


@Cantause:
good prices for the Mitutoyo tools !!! Wow beautiful Bessey/Erdi scissors !!!!! What do you plan to do with it ? I read BMW plan to build their new small car with carbon parts. Did you hire there ???
Yes Bosch will introduce a new line of power tools specially for the women. "Louis Vitton" and "Gucci" versions will follow (with small Gucci + Louis Vitton symbols all over the tool )




btw we invented a new tool today in the garage.... a ball joint puller with built in 8mm pin punch The new tool of a "2 in 1" series coming soon to a store near you !!!!

(pivot pin broke...)

 

[TjoFrasse]

@TjoFrasse
... and don´t forget you have the Bahco factory outlet store !!!
If you´re looking for other tools there is a Hazet dealer in Örebro + Saltsjö-Boo www.motorwallin.se www.spekuma.se or www.hanssonfrife.se in Spånga (Wera, Knipex, Rennsteig, Hafu, Bessey etc.)

Yeah, but that is with outlet selection also. No guaranteed stock... And it's for this summer only, will close in september.

Thanks for the URLs , the Hazet seller had a price list, and all i can say is my dreams of a Hazet collection won't come true. The second one was only a reseller, will contact them to see if there is a store around here. There is stores with good tools, but they're usually only interested in selling to professionals, as a hobbyist you get zero service.

With gas prices versus shipping fees, i'll start order more from germany. A shame not getting to feel the tools first, but it's cheaper.

 

[Monte]

Yeah, but that is with outlet selection also. No guaranteed stock... And it's for this summer only, will close in september.

oops thats not good... i thought it´s like a regular store...

Thanks for the URLs , the Hazet seller had a price list, and all i can say is my dreams of a Hazet collection won't come true. The second one was only a reseller, will contact them to see if there is a store around here. There is stores with good tools, but they're usually only interested in selling to professionals, as a hobbyist you get zero service.

With gas prices versus shipping fees, i'll start order more from germany. A shame not getting to feel the tools first, but it's cheaper.

There should be good prices @ ebay.de or at stores like www.tbs-aachen.de where you can get Hazet for example at discounted prices
http://www.tbs-aachen.de/Aktion_2010_c1720.htm




some flea market finds:

Hazet cutting pliers

open end wrench from "Gott". Possibly "Walter Gott" once a tool forge, resurrected 1973 as "NWS Tools".

Hazet "V10" wrench (?)

screwdriver made by "VEB WMW Smalcalda" in the former German Democratic Republic

 

[impulse922]

Any good german or european air tools? Read about CP making some stuff in france, but i ordered a sander based on that tidbit and it ended up being a Taiwanese piece. I'm particularly looking for a 3/8" impact.