Tools from the old world

[Monte]

"Heckenrose" hand saw:

www.augusta-heckenrose.de

 

[mofo62]

Beta adaptor set:

for those special applications

Congratulation

very very awesome!!!

 

[galwaytt]

Revolving punch pliers

The only use for that punch tool that I can think of is for when working on leather and other tough fibers/skins. What other uses are there?

Here's a good use for it: when you're in make-do mode, and making gaskets from sheets of gasket paper, (e.g. waterpumps, 'stats, m/cycle casings etc etc) it's perfect for punching the bolt holes in the pattern through the paper....(marked off the part, or old gasket.)

 

[galwaytt]

...sold tools for 16 years, and tbh, I really like PB Baumann stuff -esp their hex key, v.small philips small driversIdown to 00 iirc...) and chisel sets..

Then can be got there (under Baumann): http://www.caulfieldindustrial.com/files/home1.asp

 

[Monte]

galwaytt:
show us some tools ! In 16 years you should have collected a good selection of tools...especially as dealer since everything is so cheap then....
I only have a few PB items:

 

[arkangel06]

those PB swiss toos are awesome!

 

[Monte]

Old Metabo drill from the 1930`s

cut away model of a Metabo drill

 

[north]

Gotta love the handle on that old Metabo. Gotta love the whole thing come to think of it.

Have a nice day.

 

[Monte]

@north: new name ?



they still make them almost identical

 

[north]

Yeah, password trouble combined with my previous e-mail provider went the way of the Dodo bird = easier to make new account.

While overall design is similar there is something about the old all-metal tools and the details in the design. And thanks for sharing.

Have a nice day.

 

[Monte]

yes old electric tools have a certain style...

old "Duss" drill from 1961 for 5 € from the flea market....still works...

from a german forum: some pics from the Metabo museum:

old Porter Cable jigsaw:

 

[Monte]

Grip-On "237-070 Wing clamp"

Napa Locking Aluminum U-Clamp "NHT P830" a.k.a. Grip-On "145-12 ALUMINUM ALLOY U-CLAMP"

 

[superautobacs]

Had some time to take some photos tonight...

Some Sandvik and Bahco cutting tools:

A 20", MOB mason's chisel, rebranded as a Virax. The back side of the black handle reads "REAFFUTABLE", which translates to "resharpenable". I bought this thinking it can also serve as a straight pry bar:

 

[Monte]

a Bahco fan !
what does the package of the sawing blades for the "301" saw say: "Made in..." ? (germany ?)

mmhhh Staedtler compass....


nice chisel ! ....huge.....

more french cuisine:

"Muller" punch from france. They also supply Facom i read in a french car forum.
www.peugeot-muller.com/

more saws....:

Classic Haunstetter "PUK" saw www.haunstetter-saegenfabrik.de

new vs. old

Bahco has a version too:

 

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

did you buy a 3/4" ratchet in the meanwhile? If yes, which one?
Do you know where the current Facom ratchets (the regular and the flex-head types) are made?
What's your take on the flex-head ratchets you own/have used in general? Facom, Ko-Ken, Genius, Nironex, Snap-on - which one is smooth and affordable?

BTW, the Atorn VDE screwdrivers I got recently look a lot like the Wiha Proturn VDE screwdrivers. I'll post pics when I have access to a digital camera.

I like your newly arranged tool storage.

Greetings from Austria,

Chreese

 

[Monte]

Servus, Monte,

did you buy a 3/4" ratchet in the meanwhile? If yes, which one?

Hey chreese,
no since i ran out of money i didn`t bought a 3/4" rat and i also i didn`t contact **** yet regarding the IPS pliers.... I have to wait ...., but i think i will get the the Matador "5060" 72 tooth ratchet or the Matador "5062" push through ratchet.

Matador "5060"

Matador "5062"

Why Matador ? Because i think i could get a good price through the "Bauhaus" store and i think other companies use this ratchet too:

This pic is from the Carl Walter website click, if you look at the beam with the recess and the extra square recess below the head and the round metal part at the handle the ratchets look close except for the plastic handle.

This fine tooth (60 teeth) version from Walter also was in the Matador catalog until a couple of month ago , it`s the predecessor of the new Matador 5060 72-tooth ratchet.

Here the WGB version "441 C" . The (old) fine tooth version is also available from WGB ("446 C") Catalog page 74 click

Heyco also offers both versions: Catalog page 20 click
The older "Format" brand ratchet was also the same.

Do you know where the current Facom ratchets (the regular and the flex-head types) are made?

The last info i heard about the Facom ratchets is Italy.

What's your take on the flex-head ratchets you own/have used in general? Facom, Ko-Ken, Genius, Nironex, Snap-on - which one is smooth and affordable?

The swivel head ratchets which i held in my hands: Wera Zyklop 1/4" to 1/2", 1/4" Nironex, KoKen 3776, snap-on FHC737

The flex-head ratchets: Facom J.153A, Snap-on FLF80, Carolus Rastoflex, Gedore 3093 GU-3

The snap-on FHC737 has the nicest ratcheting imho and also a very small head so i would probably buy it (ok i bought the Koken ) If i ever get the student discount i`ll buy one (or if i should visit the US again)

From the flex head ratchets i probably would buy the Facom one for 39.- Euro (net). I was not convinced by the SO ratchet, sure the ratcheting is much nicer compared to the old 936 series but compared to the Facom round heads there is not much difference anymore , at least no 70 euro difference ... I thought the ratcheting would be much nicer with the 2 pawls , but the Gedores with 2 pawls are smoother.

I like the idea of this Gedore ratchet: (but ratcheting is a little bit rough)

Nironex brand - generic import: (rough ratcheting and wider head than the Zyklop)

KoKen detail: (also smooth ratcheting but much wider head than SO)

BTW, the Atorn VDE screwdrivers I got recently look a lot like the Wiha Proturn VDE screwdrivers. I'll post pics when I have access to a digital camera.

yeah, the Atorn`s are also on my wish list
meanwhile i bought these screwdrivers:

Wurth slotted driver set:

PH + PZ cross head set:

I like your newly arranged tool storage.

me too
Manufactured this holder for a hose and extension cord:

the drawers are already filled, i only need some drawer liners...

 

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

Thanks for your helpful response.

Hey chreese,
no since i ran out of money i didn`t bought a 3/4" rat and i also i didn`t contact **** yet regarding the IPS pliers.... I have to wait ...., but i think i will get the the Matador "5060" 72 tooth ratchet or the Matador "5062" push through ratchet.

I ordered the IPS pliers along with other pliers (IPS Soft Touch, Keiba, MTC) last week.

As for the 3/4" ratchets, the Matador 5060 looks good, indeed. Do you know how much it is?
To me, the Facom K.152 is also tempting. What's your take on it?

Hm, so I might get the Facom J.153A (3/8") or the S.153A (1/2").
Snap-on is probably too expensive for me and my needs. Besides, I don't even know if a Snap-on dealer exists in my neck of the woods.

I like the idea of this Gedore ratchet: (but ratcheting is a little bit rough)

Well, I guess what we need is a combination of the Gedore 1993 GU-10 XL and the 1993 GU-3. If the 1993 GU-10 XL were a bit shorter and less expensive I would seriously contemplate it.

Congrats on the Würth screwdrivers. I like them. How much did you pay?
My latest additions to my screwdriver collection:
- a few Atorn VDE screwdrivers
- Facom - standard and VDE
- Wera chisel drivers (old style)
- Felo Ergonic

You shouldn't have posted pics of your drawer cabinet.
Now I definitely need to find a source for reasonably priced, used drawer cabinets (such as Lista) in good condition.
BTW, how about some Black-Cats?


Regards,

Chreese

 

[Monte]

Nice ! Please post some pics of the pliers when they arrive, especially of the IPS soft face pliers which I`m interested in.

I found the Matador 5060 in the web for 145.- (tax incl.) ....Facom would be 78.- ...

The older 5060 model had a list price of 105,30, the push through type 65,60 + tax (2004/5 catalog) , the same model from WGB i found in the net for 50.- included.
The Facom ratchet looks nice as usual, not as shiny as the new 1/4" to 1/2" ratchets but nicely finished. The ratcheting is ok too, and the price...

Hm, so I might get the Facom J.153A (3/8") or the S.153A (1/2").
Snap-on is probably too expensive for me and my needs. Besides, I don't even know if a Snap-on dealer exists in my neck of the woods.
Well, I guess what we need is a combination of the Gedore 1993 GU-10 XL and the 1993 GU-3. If the 1993 GU-10 XL were a bit shorter and less expensive I would seriously contemplate it.

yeah probably that would be the wisest decision and the most economical to go with the Facom ratchet. Maybe the head of the GU-10 fits onto the GU-3 body ??

Looks a bit strange but i would like to check out this Stahlwille ratchet:

Congrats on the Würth screwdrivers. I like them. How much did you pay?
My latest additions to my screwdriver collection:

For a 5 piece set i paid 39.- € + tax (List 72.-) so i bought a slotted/PH set and a slotted/PZ set + individual drivers to have all sizes. A couple of weeks ago they were on sale for 29.- €/set + tax .....
But I think I`m done now with drivers except some Walter Schröder screwdrivers and some older stuff for my private museum

I like them... Felo ergonomic "Ergonic" handle but with striking cap included (exclusively for Wurth):

They also had these exotic black finished wrenches on sale a couple of month ago:

I have the Black Cat mats in my tool box and on top of my welder, awesome stuff, but to fill 13 drawers with 60 cm x 65 cm pieces will be expensive so i have to wait a bit since it`s not on top of my wishlist... ( slow speed die grinder, straight line sander, Berner "Sandy", Schröder screwdrivers, 3/4" stuff ............................)

 

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

Of course, I'll post pics of the pliers but that will take time. Estimated delivery time is eight weeks and the pliers will be shipped to my dealer in Bavaria which I visit only a few times every year.

Maybe I'll decide to buy the Facom. It seems to be one of the most reasonably priced 3/4" ratchets with a comfortable handle. The Beta 928/55 (72 teeth) costs even a couple of Euros less.

yeah probably that would be the wisest decision and the most economical to go with the Facom ratchet. Maybe the head of the GU-10 fits onto the GU-3 body ??

Even if the heads were interchangeable then I'd have to find a "solution" with Gedore because buying both ratchets is definitely not an option for me.

Thanks for the information about the Würth screwdrivers. Unfortunately, I'm not a Würth customer, yet. Those Würth list prices are somehow ridiculous in my opinion.

But I think I`m done now with drivers except some Walter Schröder screwdrivers and some older stuff for my private museum

Oh yes, Walter Schröder:

Any alternatives to the Black Cat mats? I stumbled across an Ikea catalogue lately and found mats for kitchen cabinet drawers. They are way cheaper than the Black Cat mats but then again I don't think we can expect the same level of quality and durability.

Chreese

 

[dede2897234]

Chreese,

You purchased which model numbers of IPS pliers? Which company did you buy the IPS pliers from and had them shipped to your Bavarian tool dealer? Can you please include the web addresses of both companies involved in your IPS pliers purchase? During the summer, a few GarageJournal members (including myself), purchased the IPS HLB-300 and HLS-300 slip-joint pliers from "The Wood Works" in Sydney, Australia. The GarageJournal thread can be found here: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42774&highlight=premium+Japanese. Once "The Wood Works" received shipment of the IPS pliers from his contact in Japan (it took between 2 to 3 weeks), we received our pliers from Australia in only a week via international air mail.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[Chreese]

Servus, Dave,

It's the IPS HLB-300 and HLS-300 pliers you mentioned.
After the messages on this board had brought them to my attention, I tried to find a dealer in Europe. I found out that **** (Germany) carries IPS Soft Touch pliers and emailed them about the availability of the HLB-300 and the HLS-300. **** confirmed that they can order them for me. I don't know ****'s supplier. There are several stores in Germany that offer **** products. One of them is Zellmer. I finally ordered the pliers via Zellmer. (I buy (woodworking) tools from Zellmer from time to time and a buddy of mine is a regular customer. As Zellmer is a good company to deal with I decided to go with them.)

Greetings from Europe,

Chreese

 

[Monte]

@chreese:

ok i wait for the pics !

yeah i probably also would go with the facom, i don`t like the new handles of the Beta ratchets with the glossy plastic and rubber. I like the direction selector though...

Even if the heads were interchangeable then I'd have to find a "solution" with Gedore because buying both ratchets is definitely not an option for me..

just kidding

Thanks for the information about the Würth screwdrivers. Unfortunately, I'm not a Würth customer, yet. Those Würth list prices are somehow ridiculous in my opinion.

you can always try to negotiate with the sales rep

Oh yes, Walter Schröder:

these are what i`m talking about ! It looks like a almost complete set, PH, PZ, slotted, hex, torx and nut drivers ... sweet ! Factory direct or from a Austrian dealer ??
Do you have a pic of a schröder driver with round blade and hex bolster (the hex part) ?
thx in advance

i`m checking the ikea catalog right now ! thx !

 

[Monte]

ps: we also need more pics of the box and what`s inside

 

[dede2897234]

Chreese,

Thanks for sharing the website links for **** and Zellmer. On ****'s website, I performed a search on "pliers". Besides seeing a few models of IPS pliers, **** also carries pliers made by Keiba, MTC, and Yattoko.


Chreese, Monte, or Superautobacs, do you own any pliers made by the Japanese manufacturers Keiba, MTC, and/or Yattoko? How is the quality of their pliers in terms of strength, construction, and craftsmanship? Do you own or know of any other models of Japanese manufactured pliers that are unique and highly desirable such as IPS' HLB-300 and HLS-300 pliers?

Thanks,

Dave

 

[Monte]

@dede2897234

Superautobacs has some.
I personally don`t have any, but some are already on my wishlist: this one, this, this, this, and maybe this one and the extra long IPS pliers.

unique pliers like these (i like them ) from Engineer ?

ok not from Japan but some are unique: click (the double bent one)

unique design from KTC: click (i want one )

these are odd too click

these from Keiba are cute

They have pliers but nothing spectacular just exotic
http://www.fujiya-kk.com/
http://www.tsunoda-japan.com/catalog/index.html
http://www.muromoto.co.jp/
http://www.hanazonotool.co.jp/en/index.htm

Many are unique but i don`t know if highly desirable

 

[dede2897234]

Monte,

Thanks for posting the links to various plier designs by the well know Japanese hand tool manufacturers. In the future, I will be looking into purchasing the Engineer PZ-58 screw removal pliers.


I noticed in the first 2 posted links that Hitachi steel is used to manufacture the combination pliers produced by both Keiba and MTC. Do you know what Hitachi steel is? Is it superior to any other steel types used to manufacture current pliers?


Dave

 

[Chreese]

Servus, folks,

you can always try to negotiate with the sales rep

Do you buy Würth at a local store or do you have "your" sales rep?

these are what i`m talking about ! It looks like a almost complete set, PH, PZ, slotted, hex, torx and nut drivers ... sweet ! Factory direct or from a Austrian dealer ??

I bought the Walter Schröder screwdrivers some years back directly from the company. No problem at all, just drop them a line or call them. Initially, I thought I had bought a complete set but later on I realized that some sizes (Torx 40, for example) where "missing". Luckily, I had purchased a number of screwdrivers at a close-out-special in the meanwhile and as a consequence, I was able to complete the screwdriver assortment for the toolbox.

Yes, I promise to post pics of the box and the stuff it contains but again, that will take time. (No digital camera and no shop access at the moment.)
The pic posted above is the only one of the Schröder screwdrivers I currently have. I took it months ago and found it yesterday on the HDD.

Chreese, Monte, or Superautobacs, do you own any pliers made by the Japanese manufacturers Keiba, MTC, and/or Yattoko?

Not yet but I ordered this one, this one and this one.

Have a nice day,

Chreese

 

[superautobacs]

Dave,

Here's two links that show some photos that I took of my Keiba, MTC, and Engineer pliers: link and link
I have a pair of red handled Keiba lineman's pliers (not pictured) that I've owned from the 80's and they're still in good working order.

Keiba has come up with their own type of steel called Marutoloy, so I don't know why ****'s website mentions the use of Hitachi steel.
Here's some information directly from Keiba: http://www.keiba-tool.com/seihin/htm/56_2.htm


I think Monte covered all the pliers maker in Japan from a few posts above, except for one! 3 Peaks ,

 

[superautobacs]

What I find odd about Beta ratchets is that the square drive is chromed. I usually associate chromed square drives with cheap Chinese or Indian made tools.

 

[Vinko]

I posted these in another thread a while ago, but thought them appropriate here too:

 

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

What brand is your drawer cabinet?
And are you familiar with any alternatives to Lista? How does KLW compare to Lista? KLW seems to cost a tad less.

Do you have a drill press? If yes, how about some details?

Thanks.

Have a good weekend,

Chreese

 

[Monte]

Monte,
I noticed in the first 2 posted links that Hitachi steel is used to manufacture the combination pliers produced by both Keiba and MTC. Do you know what Hitachi steel is? Is it superior to any other steel types used to manufacture current pliers?
Dave

Like superautobacs posted on the Keiba website they say that they get their steel from Kobe steel http://www.kobelco.co.jp/english/index.html
If you type "Marutoloy" or "CrV70C" i only find infos in japanese and no info on the Kobe website. So probably Marutoloy just a name Keiba invented for this series of pliers. If "CrV70C" translates into CrV (Chrom vanadium) and "70C" into the german version "C70" (see pic) then it would mean that they use carbon/mild steel with 0,70% carbon and <1% manganese.

Hitachi is also a steel company http://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/index.html like "Krupp" or "Saar Stahl" where Knipex sources their steel from for example.

Do you buy Würth at a local store or do you have "your" sales rep?

yes theres a dude who calls me every month, in the store i get no good prices.

Yes i have the Schröder catalog and CD too. I`ll order a couple of them ...

ps: Do you know who makes a screwdriver with a hex/blade design like this ?

What I find odd about Beta ratchets is that the square drive is chromed. I usually associate chromed square drives with cheap Chinese or Indian made tools.

yeah that`s what i think too......maybe they are from there who knows.... Pliers are from "abroad" i heard and take a look here and then here and here and then here. I also doubt that these Beta pliers are italian maybe chineseian ?


@Vinko:
very cool !! I`m envious !! I wish i had a cold saw


@chreese:
There is no brand name on or in the cabinet so i don`t know. There are a couple of manufacturers besides Lista like Bedrunka-hirth, Lokoma, Kind and Rau. I probably would buy whatever i find at ebay or in the newspaper. If you take one of these brand name products no matter what name it should be ok i guess if its made for industrial/workshop use.

a locking device which i made (had no key for the original lock)

the inside:

yes i have a drill press, it`s a Flott TB 10 with 13mm Röhm chuck. Picked it up for 240 €. It works nice and runs smooth even after 22 years ...no wobble/play in the spindle like you have even with new import drills. But for larger diameters like 11-13mm i would recommend a heavier drill press (for metal work), it works but the machine starts to vibrate.

Some pics of drill presses which are currently manufactured here:

My dream machine from Alzmetall

Gillardon

Flott

Maxion

Solid

 

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

ps: Do you know who makes a screwdriver with a hex/blade design like this ?

What exactly is it that you are interested in? A screwdriver with a round blade and hex bolster as you mentioned above? Schröder definitely has them and Witte apparently too. I can't tell the brand of the pictured screwdriver though. The handle reminds me of the black Witte in the middle of the upper row in this pic.

I'll get back to you after dinner.

Chreese

 

[Monte]

It´s a Hazet screwdriver, i just try to figure out who is the manufacturer, since everybody (or most) manufacturers make the hex part different i thought maybe you have a idea. I have mostly hex blade drivers. Some hex/blade contructions are 2 piece , some one piece forged into the blade like the Witte (Schröder too, at least the "Connex" brand ones i saw yesterday) or welded onto like the PB Baumann.

Here are some different versions:

Wera

Felo

Wurth (Felo)

PB Baumann

Witte

ps:
The Hazet drivers from above:

 

[dede2897234]

<< Originally Posted by Monte:

Like superautobacs posted on the Keiba website they say that they get their steel from Kobe steel http://www.kobelco.co.jp/english/index.html
If you type "Marutoloy" or "CrV70C" i only find infos in japanese and no info on the Kobe website. So probably Marutoloy just a name Keiba invented for this series of pliers. If "CrV70C" translates into CrV (Chrom vanadium) and "70C" into the german version "C70" (see pic) then it would mean that they use carbon/mild steel with 0,70% carbon and <1% manganese. >>


Monte,

Is CrV70c a strong tool steel? How do you determine if a specific tool steel is a strong steel? Do you determine the strength of a tool steel by looking at the percentages of carbon and manganese present in it?


Thanks,

Dave

 

[dede2897234]

It´s a Hazet screwdriver, i just try to figure out who is the manufacturer, since everybody (or most) manufacturers make the hex part different i thought maybe you have a idea. I have mostly hex blade drivers. Some hex/blade contructions are 2 piece , some one piece forged into the blade like the Witte (Schröder too, at least the "Connex" brand ones i saw yesterday) or welded onto like the PB Baumann.

Here are some different versions:

Wera

Felo

Wurth (Felo)

PB Baumann

Witte

ps:
The Hazet drivers from above:

Monte,

Which hex/blade design due you prefer in terms of strength and durability (ex: 2 piece, forged, or welded)? Which hex/blade design is more prone to failure?


Thanks,

Dave

 

[superautobacs]

Monte,

Is CrV70c a strong tool steel? How do you determine if a specific tool steel is a strong steel? Do you determine the strength of a tool steel by looking at the percentages of carbon and manganese present in it?


Thanks,

Dave

If I may...
Although I'm no metallurgist, nor do I have any sort of engineering background, I do understand that the heat treating process (annealing/tempering) IS what largely determines the property or "character" of an alloy steel.

 

[Hawk321]

I've won an auction on ebay.

1/4 ratchet box from Garant/Stahlwille, NEW!. The Nut Driver is made by PB Swiss.
Complete with shipping, only ~30$

 

[superautobacs]

Dave,

IIRC, I've mentioned this on this thread that the Engineer PZ-57 is available to order from Lee Valley for a decent price: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=48332&cat=1,43456,43400&ap=1 It's NOS so it doesn't have the funky looking handle grips.

Here's their line up of screw pliers:

More pictures here.




Monte,

The famous(?) Lancer screwdriver is also available from Lee Valley and Princess Auto (our version of HF). Lee Valley has a pretty good selection compared to Princess: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32219&cat=1,43411,43417.
I've had the chance to play with these and the handles are definitely on the large side with a comfortable triangular shape.





Here's what 3-Peaks became famous for:
Oil filter wrench

 

[Monte]

@dede:
That require to much knowledge of metallurgy and processing of steel so i can`t tell you since i don`t know why which steels are used etc. I`m still reading to dig deeper into these issues.

regarding the hex bolsters: I never asked a manufacturer why they make them like they make them, that`s what i`ll find out next time when i speak to a manufacturer. But I personally don`t think that you can twist off the bolster or the blade no matter what design if you use the screwdriver accordingly. At least the forged version and the welded one as well as the the hex blade/hex bolster style. I don`t know how the 2 piece version with round blade is attached , must be inside the handle ?? Time to cut one open.....

ps:
the screw pliers are also available in the US @: click and logical www.screw-pliers.com/
But only the "normal" style


I really want this version... from the year 2525 dadadidadadadi...year 2525...

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@superautobacs: oh you have these Lancer drivers too , i thought we are the only lucky people who have them

Here something for you, another version of the other famous Lancer driver this time from Engineer:

it`s epidemic


@Hawk: welcome back

nice deal !!!!! how much do you want ?? 35 $ ??