Tools from the old world

[sweet victory]

If it’s the “Classic” or “Multicraft” handle, a trace of spirit (alcohol) on a rag will work just fine. Here in the U.K. “methylated” spirit is widely available, that’s what I use.

Did you realise that PB drivers are available without the barcode? I think the barcoded ones are the “eco” option without packaging. Most of mine came without.

It's the Multicraft handle. I did not know those were available. I've ordered Pbswiss from every US based distributor that I'm aware of (Toollady, CountOnTools, and DRDP) and all of them had barcoded handles. Even the precision screwdriver set I ordered that came in a PB box had barcodes. I'm currently living in the great state of California (I say this sarcastically), and the sale of denatured/methylated alcohol has been banned for several years.

 

[snowblindb]

Totally forgot these, they were -60% and -70%
There is some issue with rust tho. They are maybe stored some place with high moisture or something. I used WD40 and ”scotch brite”- type sponge to get that light rust off. I think it worked well. Photo is before treatment.

 

[Vicks]

Found these at the local hardware store and picked up a set to try, not knowing the OEM. Soon found out about the Ideal brand of clamping tools from Germany. They look decently made, I’m now waiting for an opportunity to put them to use.







I bought this set of Wera combination spanners a while ago, I know they’re not German made but the finish and quality - I like. funny thing Amazon dropped the prices on this set by about 23Eur 4 weeks after I bought, so I wrote a casual email that this was quite drop in price and they promptly gave me a coupon for the amount !





I’m a firm believer that any funds meant for tools should and must be used only for procuring tools, So I went and bought a pair of Cobras using the coupon code.



and this is my first set of Stahlwille deep offset ring spanners, love using them so far. They don’t have the finish of the Wera but it doesn’t bother me.

 

[vwpieces]

836 pages. Geez guys! I should have joined this place years ago just to keep up.
Recently posted some of my Hazet, now I gotta post the "Other" German tools I have too.
Some good history lessons so far through page 5.
Sad to hear all the no longer German brands.

 

[mr.lemons]

Felo screwdrivers.



The stubby PH2 is kind of cute.



Very late to the party on these, but it's my first time handling Felo Ergonic. I know this has been said before, but the handles are very squishy. You can feel the rubber twist when you crank on them. They feel a bit weird to me as they are a mix of squishy rubber, but with hard plastic around the hanging hole. They certainly seem to provide a lot of grip with dry hands.



Handle size compared to PB.

 

[mr.lemons]

Screwdriver confession.

While I do use PB precision drivers at work and at home, my collection of normal size PB drivers lives in a clean tin and very rarely get used. I keep them for 'clean' jobs. Problem is, no jobs are clean enough to keep the precious handles spotless, so I always grab something else. Absolutely ridiculous to have a set of 'Sunday best' screwdrivers. LOL, I'm angry with myself.

 

[mr.lemons]

Beta 3/8" hex sockets.

Bought the set used off ebay. I think they may be made by Ko-ken, but not sure. I think Beta sources tools from all over.





They are one piece rather than having a bit pressed into a socket. Not sure if this is a premium feature or a cheaper option. The 6mm is the only socket that looks to have been used. The chrome is chipping off, which I assume will affect the fit as it gets worse. Seems to be very impractical.

 

[mr.lemons]

I have been playing around with the Facom OGV grip hex socket. They are not quite what the youtube videos are making them out to be. At least, not in my limited 'testing' anyway.

I was testing to see if they would remove screws after a standard hex socket had slipped and damaged the screw head. They definitely had a little more grip, but could not remove a screw damaged by a standard hex socket. Not a surprise, but a larger size bit would be required to grip the edges of the screw rather than a different profile of the same size.

This was very limited testing and asking the impossible, really. Whether the OGV profile can apply more torque to a screw without slipping than a standard hex is probably more important.

I will say that both the Wera and Facom seemed to provided more grip than a standard Stahlwille hex bit, it just wasn't enough to make a difference on heavily damaged screws.

I guess that real use and time is required to form a proper opinion.

 

[Dave455]

Beta 3/8" hex sockets.

Bought the set used off ebay. I think they may be made by Ko-ken, but not sure. I think Beta sources tools from all over.





They are one piece rather than having a bit pressed into a socket. Not sure if this is a premium feature or a cheaper option. The 6mm is the only socket that looks to have been used. The chrome is chipping off, which I assume will affect the fit as it gets worse.

The very “top end” of the Beta sockets and accessories are made by KoKen. They are intended for aerospace use, are SAE sizes only, and are identical to any other KoKen tool (but more expensive buying through Beta).

I’m 90% certain those hex bits are not made by Koken! Certainly not KoKen quality!

 

[Vicks]

I was gonna say that considering how good the Ko-ken hex bits are, it looks doubtful that the bit ends on the Beta socket-hex are made by Ko-ken.

 

[sweet victory]

I have been playing around with the Facom OGV grip hex socket. They are not quite what the youtube videos are making them out to be. At least, not in my limited 'testing' anyway.

I was testing to see if they would remove screws after a standard hex socket had slipped and damaged the screw head. They definitely had a little more grip, but could not remove a screw damaged by a standard hex socket. Not a surprise, but a larger size bit would be required to grip the edges of the screw rather than a different profile of the same size.

This was very limited testing and asking the impossible, really. Whether the OGV profile can apply more torque to a screw without slipping than a standard hex is probably more important.

I will say that both the Wera and Facom seemed to provided more grip than a standard Stahlwille hex bit, it just wasn't enough to make a difference on heavily damaged screws.

I guess that real use and time is required to form a proper opinion.

I have the Mac version called RBRT. I use the 8mm bit socket regularly. The drain plug on my 911 is aluminum - I've gotten into the habit of removing with the RBRT, and reinstalling with a normal hex bit to the proper torque value. This is an effort to prolong the life of these aftermarket magnetic drain plugs, and minimize the risk of stripping them out. I like the overall concept, but wish they allocated more of the budget for US manufacturing, and a bit less for the aggressive marketing campaign. At least for the mac versions, they are making these in Taiwan, and charging US made prices, which is extremely off putting for me.

 

[mr.lemons]

The very “top end” of the Beta sockets and accessories are made by KoKen. They are intended for aerospace use, are SAE sizes only, and are identical to any other KoKen tool (but more expensive buying through Beta).

I’m 90% certain those hex bits are not made by Koken! Certainly not KoKen quality!

Are the standard Beta torx and hex not Ko-ken? They have a Ko-ken look about them. Especially the shape of the ball ends.

 

[mr.lemons]

I have the Mac version called RBRT. I use the 8mm bit socket regularly. The drain plug on my 911 is aluminum - I've gotten into the habit of removing with the RBRT, and reinstalling with a normal hex bit to the proper torque value. This is an effort to prolong the life of these aftermarket magnetic drain plugs, and minimize the risk of stripping them out. I like the overall concept, but wish they allocated more of the budget for US manufacturing, and a bit less for the aggressive marketing campaign. At least for the mac versions, they are making these in Taiwan, and charging US made prices, which is extremely off putting for me.

Have you tried using them to tighten? Facom is selling them as extractors, but Mac are selling them as 'Bi-directional.' The shape looks like it favours loosening/anticlockwise to me.

 

[Dave455]

Are the standard Beta torx and hex not Ko-ken? They have a Ko-ken look about them. Especially the shape of the ball ends.

Yes, they look as though they are KoKen.

I was buying a bit of Beta maybe 15/20 years back. The mid range tools were Italian made. They had a distinctive “feel” and shiny chrome. Not top end maybe, but pretty decent, especially for the money. The all chromed hex bits I saw back then were from this range. Country of origin was clearly marked.

The best quality / aerospace tools were bought in from KoKen. The quality was excellent. The dealer, a friend, told me that Beta had a contract for the Italian government but needed to buy in tools to meet some of the specs. I’m guessing for aircraft work, but the tools were in the catalogue.

If you are going to source tools from anyone, KoKen would seem to be a good choice, but it changes your business from “manufacturer” to “importer”. As a buyer, why wouldn’t I just buy KoKen, then I know what I’m getting?

 

[mr.lemons]

There are no one-piece hex sockets (apart from impacts) in the Ko-ken catalogue, so I thought the Beta sockets must be from somewhere else, but they have a tight fit on the square end (no rattle) that I have not had with any Taiwan sockets. hmmmm, much speculation.

 

[Dave455]

There are no one-piece hex sockets (apart from impacts) in the Ko-ken catalogue, so I thought the Beta sockets must be from somewhere else, but they have a tight fit on the square end (no rattle) that I have not had with any Taiwan sockets. hmmmm, much speculation.

They may be Italian made. Pretty certain that the T handle sets I used to see back then were Italian, and they had the all chrome finish too.

 

[sweet victory]

Have you tried using them to tighten? Facom is selling them as extractors, but Mac are selling them as 'Bi-directional.' The shape looks like it favours loosening/anticlockwise to me.

They feel like they tighten okay. I use a snap on 8mm stubby hex bit socket purely as preference. It's very evident when the bit is fully engaged using the stubby bit, and given the length of my 3/8" torque wrench, I want to make sure the bit is completely engaged when tightening.

The 8mm RBRT is the only rbrt socket I own. I wanted some hands on experience with it before investing in the product line. I've been fortunate enough to avoid stripping out internal drive drive screws using good quality tools and making they are able to fully engaged before loosening/tightening. That being said, I'm not a tech who sees a different car everyday that may come in with fasteners already stripped. The 77pc hex bit set and the 7pc extractor set are the only two items on my RBRT wish list, for now.

 

[JBH]

They feel like they tighten okay. I use a snap on 8mm stubby hex bit socket purely as preference. It's very evident when the bit is fully engaged using the stubby bit, and given the length of my 3/8" torque wrench, I want to make sure the bit is completely engaged when tightening.

The 8mm RBRT is the only rbrt socket I own. I wanted some hands on experience with it before investing in the product line. I've been fortunate enough to avoid stripping out internal drive drive screws using good quality tools and making they are able to fully engaged before loosening/tightening. That being said, I'm not a tech who sees a different car everyday that may come in with fasteners already stripped. The 77pc hex bit set and the 7pc extractor set are the only two items on my RBRT wish list, for now.

Mister Worker lists a set of these under the USAG brand with various bit sizes and a single bit socket that is reasonably priced. Ultimate Garage may have them too.

 

[superautobacs]

@mr.lemons When I see those chrome-plated in-hex sockets, I see Ko-ken. The way the leading edge is chamfered, the tooling marks, and the rest reminds me of the one-peice in-hex socket that I have, only its a manganese/phosphated finish.
I wouldn't be surprised that Beta spec'd Ko-ken to chrome plate the whole thing (even though Ko-ken doesn't do it for good reason). At one point Beta was producing their ratchets with square anvils being chrome plated, which is a very odd practice. I think there was an era when Beta wanted their tools be extra flashy

 

[mr.lemons]

Ko-ken vs Beta.

@mr.lemons When I see those chrome-plated in-hex sockets, I see Ko-ken. The way the leading edge is chamfered, the tooling marks, and the rest reminds me of the one-peice in-hex socket that I have, only its a manganese/phosphated finish.
I wouldn't be surprised that Beta spec'd Ko-ken to chrome plate the whole thing (even though Ko-ken doesn't do it for good reason). At one point Beta was producing their ratchets with square anvils being chrome plated, which is a very odd practice. I think there was an era when Beta wanted their tools be extra flashy

I'm pretty convinced they are Ko-ken, or some sort of collaboration with Ko-ken. Either way, they are going back on Ebay. Shame, as they sure look nice (before you use them).

 

[Dave455]

Ko-ken vs Beta.








I'm pretty convinced they are Ko-ken, or some sort of collaboration with Ko-ken. Either way, they are going back on Ebay. Shame, as they sure look nice (before you use them).

Yes, I see what you mean, I think you are right.

The Italian made T handle hex keys I saw were a much brighter chrome, as were the hex bits.

Those have many similarities and the chroming appears identical. It would appear that KoKen leave their one piece hex bits all black for good reason!

 

[mr.lemons]

More 'testing' with Facom OGV hex.

Max torque recorded on a torque adapter before the hex bits slipped and mushed the screw head.
T = tighten L = loosen



Note. I only tested each bit one time clockwise and one time anticlockwise due to only having a limited number of screws to test with. Obviously, this is not enough to confirm anything, but the results do mirror how the bits feel in use, so it might not be far off. I will try again when I have more screws and update if the results are different. Where's 'Project Farm' when you need him.

 

[mr.lemons]

Facom 'pliers wrench.'

It looks like they maybe narrower overall than Knipex. I think that's something Facom is promoting anyway.

 

[mr.lemons]

Trade show in Coventry this morning.

Very much the same as what I have posted in previous years. It was much smaller this time, presumably due to covid.







New screwdrivers from Hultafors. Not particularly exciting, but good to see that they are using a German oem.







Big spender. I bought three packs of their utility blades. No COO.





New stuff from Knipex. Not 'new' to most people here.



XS pliers are definitely 'small.' Not sure if there is much money to be made from EDC type gear, but it would be interesting to see Knipex dabble more into that area. A Knipex take on a Leatherman multi tool could be good.

 

[sweet victory]

More 'testing' with Facom OGV hex.

Max torque recorded on a torque adapter before the hex bits slipped and mushed the screw head.
T = tighten L = loosen



Note. I only tested each bit one time clockwise and one time anticlockwise due to only having a limited number of screws to test with. Obviously, this is not enough to confirm anything, but the results do mirror how the bits feel in use, so it might not be far off. I will try again when I have more screws and update if the results are different. Where's 'Project Farm' when you need him.

Glad to know I don't need to rush out and "upgrade" my wera hex plus to rbrt bits. Thank you for sharing.

 

[mr.lemons]

Milwaukee booth has more and more mediocre looking hand tools each year. I have no first-hand experience with them, they may be great. Always the busiest booth.







Been eyeing this Stanley rip claw hammer on the internet for a while. Did not like it at all in person. Felt weirdly weighted, and the lump on the end of the handle made it awkward to hold (IMHO).







Wera always have a fun booth with lots of tools left out to play with.





Wera always seem to have some Facom tools out on display, presumably to compare unfavourably with Wera. It backfired a bit though, as I came away wanting a Facom ratchet with a knurled handle.



Fun way to spend a couple of hours. As said, much smaller and quieter than usual. Reps seemed a bit more desperate to sell this time too. I hate pushy sales, but understand that things are a bit challenging these days.

 

[sweet victory]

Trade show in Coventry this morning.

Very much the same as what I have posted in previous years. It was much smaller this time, presumably due to covid.







New screwdrivers from Hultafors. Not particularly exciting, but good to see that they are using a German oem.







Big spender. I bought three packs of their utility blades. No COO.





New stuff from Knipex. Not 'new' to most people here.



XS pliers are definitely 'small.' Not sure if there is much money to be made from EDC type gear, but it would be interesting to see Knipex dabble more into that area. A Knipex take on a Leatherman multi tool could be good.

I agree with you on Knipex dabbling with EDC stuff. I really like the new twin grips, and would buy them in any new size they offered them in!

 

[mr.lemons]

Glad to know I don't need to rush out and "upgrade" my wera hex plus to rbrt bits. Thank you for sharing.

I wish Wera made the larger size hex sockets in 3/8 and 1/2" square without the ball holding function.

 

[voodooaw]

Found something interesting about Wiha's ESD handles recently. This xiaomi set has been set aside in my drawer for several months. When I took it out the week before, there's some liquid on the black part of the handle. It smells sour, a little bit like lemon oil.
The same problem also happened on Wiha's own ESD set. Seems like something in Wiha's ESD material is causing this.

I wiped the liquid and put it back into the box, two weeks later, the liquid shows up again.

 

[Dave455]

There are no one-piece hex sockets (apart from impacts) in the Ko-ken catalogue, so I thought the Beta sockets must be from somewhere else, but they have a tight fit on the square end (no rattle) that I have not had with any Taiwan sockets. hmmmm, much speculation.

Actually, there are!

The 3010 are two piece, the 3012 one piece. Even though they are blacked tools, they are non impact, and quite similar to the Beta!

 

[upgrading]

Thanks for the pics from the show.

 

[vwpieces]

Found something interesting about Wiha's ESD handles recently. This xiaomi set has been set aside in my drawer for several months. When I took it out the week before, there's some liquid on the black part of the handle. It smells sour, a little bit like lemon oil.
The same problem also happened on Wiha's own ESD set. Seems like something in Wiha's ESD material is causing this.

I wiped the liquid and put it back into the box, two weeks later, the liquid shows up again.

Is it OOZing Chinesium
I have the Xaiomi Wiha Zu Hause rechargeable screwdriver. Love it and use it all the time. I knew it was Wiha China before buying but it is a darn good screwdriver.

 

[Kedukettu]

Just bought a 5kg sledge made by Unior. Does it look to you that the shaft is little bit off angle? I prefer a 90 degree angle but is this repairable?

 

[superautobacs]

Actually, there are!

The 3010 are two piece, the 3012 one piece. Even though they are blacked tools, they are non impact, and quite similar to the Beta!

Yup, that's the one I was referring to earlier.



Speaking of Ko-ken/Beta...one from my collection:

Ko-ken DBE (Beta) Wrench

 

[Dave455]

Yup, that's the one I was referring to earlier.



Speaking of Ko-ken/Beta...one from my collection:

Ko-ken DBE (Beta) Wrench

You don’t see many of those! The other end of the deal, so to speak!

Don’t think I’ve ever seen any here the U.K.

In fairness, the Beta spanners from that era were not bad. Not flashy, but o.k. Not quite KoKen quality though..!

 

[voodooaw]

Maybe this why Wiha collaborated with Xiaomi, to get the secret formula which can produce chinesium.

The bits in the set are from China and the handle is provided by Wiha, the same issue appears in Wiha's own ESD set. Seems like the quality is not on par with Wiha's earlier product. The cap often get stuck and does not rotate freely. But the storage box works nice, it's easy to find and access the bits in it.

 

[voodooaw]

Anyone have experience or information about this Elora torque wrench? It looks similar to Stahlwille ones, with square tube and quick setting. Do they make it inhouse or OEM from other manufacturer? Just can't find more information anywhere. Wonder what's the mechanism inside.

 

[aspireguy95]

Milwaukee booth has more and more mediocre looking hand tools each year. I have no first-hand experience with them, they may be great. Always the busiest booth.







Been eyeing this Stanley rip claw hammer on the internet for a while. Did not like it at all in person. Felt weirdly weighted, and the lump on the end of the handle made it awkward to hold (IMHO).







Wera always have a fun booth with lots of tools left out to play with.





Wera always seem to have some Facom tools out on display, presumably to compare unfavourably with Wera. It backfired a bit though, as I came away wanting a Facom ratchet with a knurled handle.



Fun way to spend a couple of hours. As said, much smaller and quieter than usual. Reps seemed a bit more desperate to sell this time too. I hate pushy sales, but understand that things are a bit challenging these days.

That looks like the facom era Sk roto ratchet

 

[Dave455]

That looks like the facom era Sk roto ratchet

Yes, those are Facom tools.

The roto ratchet was part of their aerospace range. That style of tool was discontinued, and replaced with steel handle versions of the “palm control” ratchet, which are also now discontinued. (Some of mine shown).

Both are infinitely better tools than anything Wera offer, so have no idea why they have them on the stand. Maybe they really do believe their own bull and think that their self disintegrating soft handles somehow make their tools superior…?

The steel handle Wera ratchets are not bad, in fact quite novel, but the French and Italian made Facom is a notch above!

 

[Vicks]

Wera always seem to have some Facom tools out on display, presumably to compare unfavourably with Wera. It backfired a bit though, as I came away wanting a Facom ratchet with a knurled handle.



Fun way to spend a couple of hours. As said, much smaller and quieter than usual. Reps seemed a bit more desperate to sell this time too. I hate pushy sales, but understand that things are a bit challenging these days.

thanks for the pics, lucky you get to go to such events. I'm overjoyed to simply find a dealer/seller for the good stuff here.