Codejack
Banned
Oh yea, I had some of those; they were garbage though
I was talking about the Gearwrench style, but your point is taken.
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Tools more consistent than HF in quality
- Thread starter Lelandwelds
- Start date
Oh yea, I had some of those; they were garbage though
I was talking about the Gearwrench style, but your point is taken.
JazzBlueRT
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,215
Oh yea, I had some of those; they were garage though
I was talking about the Gearwrench style, but your point is taken.
I used the hell out of them back in the day and I still have them. Less clearance problems on cars back then though. Pretty good tool, 30 years later still works as good as new.
Codejack
Banned
Well, maybe mine were just ****
I was working on Hondas back then, though, so "less clearance" was an issue.
I was working on Hondas back then, though, so "less clearance" was an issue.
PhysicsDude
Well-known member
In my experience good "budget" tools are:
Husky, Kobalt, Tekton, Neiko, and Klutch (Northern Tool brand).
I'm hesitant about Craftsman tools these days... its been hit or miss to me. I've had better luck with the brands I listed above.
Husky, Kobalt, Tekton, Neiko, and Klutch (Northern Tool brand).
I'm hesitant about Craftsman tools these days... its been hit or miss to me. I've had better luck with the brands I listed above.
OP
Lelandwelds
Well-known member
It will take me days if not weeks to read all the threads linked here and google all the stuff I am unfamiliar with.
I pretty much havent bought any tools for 20 + years and those have been raided (or just lost) by the kids as they were growing up. I have lots of holes in my tool collection (I can knock out for 2 in conduit but not 1/2"). I spent everything on the house so it will be a bit before I can build a garage and shop. I am not buying tools or projects until then because my container is full.
I think a lot of these brands werent around then. Most of my stuff is Craftsman , but I have a fair bit of Armstrong, Proto, Stanley, Mitutoyo, Klein, Wiha, and lesser known names. Great tools.
I have broken several of the black oxide HF crescent wrenches (screw holding the worm breaks!!). I have a set of Kobalt channellock pliers which jump the pivot arc if you are silly enough to grip anything with them. I have killed every recent tape measure except the Stanley Fat Max. I now consider screwdrivers a consumable item. My new digging bar is so soft I have to rotate it constantly to keep it from taking a set. (Never even heard of that.)
Once I have a place to put it all, I need to build a hydraulic forge and a 2 x 72 grinder. Rebuilding a nice air compressor or two sounds like fun. I think a small gantry would work better than a large one. I think I can build a better oil filter crusher of all things. Add a few workbenchs to the mix and I have my future mapped out.
I pretty much havent bought any tools for 20 + years and those have been raided (or just lost) by the kids as they were growing up. I have lots of holes in my tool collection (I can knock out for 2 in conduit but not 1/2"). I spent everything on the house so it will be a bit before I can build a garage and shop. I am not buying tools or projects until then because my container is full.
I think a lot of these brands werent around then. Most of my stuff is Craftsman , but I have a fair bit of Armstrong, Proto, Stanley, Mitutoyo, Klein, Wiha, and lesser known names. Great tools.
I have broken several of the black oxide HF crescent wrenches (screw holding the worm breaks!!). I have a set of Kobalt channellock pliers which jump the pivot arc if you are silly enough to grip anything with them. I have killed every recent tape measure except the Stanley Fat Max. I now consider screwdrivers a consumable item. My new digging bar is so soft I have to rotate it constantly to keep it from taking a set. (Never even heard of that.)
Once I have a place to put it all, I need to build a hydraulic forge and a 2 x 72 grinder. Rebuilding a nice air compressor or two sounds like fun. I think a small gantry would work better than a large one. I think I can build a better oil filter crusher of all things. Add a few workbenchs to the mix and I have my future mapped out.
Gear wrench is a good budget choice. Craftsman really fits a lot of your needs as well. I would recommend you buy one set of Snap on screwdrivers in a tray. They are worth the investment and will bail you out of trouble many times.
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OP
Lelandwelds
Well-known member
That's funny. My dad is a SO fanboy. When I go over I can depend on either "let me show you a new addition to my penny collection" or " look at the SO screwdrivers I just found".
Each collection is alike in that they are for show. Not for use.
Jp267
Well-known member
I like some Tekton and Sunex. 
*@#$
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Jp267
Well-known member
Strange adding a shrug emoji adds extras....I like some Tekton and Sunex.
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rlitman
Well-known member
..."Warranty is worthless"
I tend to agree, on the theory that if it broke in the first place, it wasn't good enough, anyway. That being said, sometimes you use a tool for something it isn't really meant for, or it wears out, or.... stuff happens
I don't prioritize the warranty, but most decent stuff will have it, anyway.
...
I like this perspective. But I also like being covered by that warranty when something happens.
Good post! You're making me think!
Well, thinking from the perspective of the current start of the art of tools, I too am having a hard time thinking of tools that have not had improvements in the past century. Chisels and punches have gotten parabolic striking heads, and there are lots of improved pry-bar designs.
However, when I think about what century old tools I have that have stood up to the test of time, I can think of more than a handful. My Eiffel plier wrench is the first that comes to mind. Perfect Handle screwdrivers make for crummy screwdrivers, but they're an irreplaceable class of straight pry bars. Now when it comes to my woodworking hand tools, perhaps some designs WERE perfected a century ago (though even there, there I see some modern improvements).
But for the most part, I'm going to have to agree that designs could not have been perfected a century ago, for the simple reason that the industrial and technological use for so many of our tools didn't even exist a century ago. Six point sockets that "Snap On" to a square drive ratchet didn't exist a century ago, as the automotive and aircraft industries of the time were still in their infancy, and were still using tooling inherited from the previous generation.
If you wanted to set the date to only 70 years ago, I think that we'd feel pretty comfortable using the tools of 1947, as they were the "grandparents" of the tools we see today, but I'm still thinking they'd feel kind of alien as well.
OP
Lelandwelds
Well-known member
Ok, ok. I should have said 70 years. Call it a rounding error. Change perfected to good enough. Parabolic striking heads? If you use a chisel as much as I have taking equipment apart for donor components, you'd realize that heads mushroom out quickly and are reground to a quasi parabola anyway. Lots of the "improvements" are at most "refinements" that really are just currently fashionable. Adding a few extra teeth to a ratchet or a composite handle cover to keep your hands warm will not radically improve most users "tool experience". ( I just read "tool experience" in some ad copy. I might have been out of circulation longer than I realized. )
https://www.farmshow.com
The above magazine showcases the sort of projects I prefer. My projects dont have many of the space restrictions or specialty tool requirements of modern cars. Maybe that why I am happy with designs from the fifties as long as my hammer faces are hard enough, my prybars dont bend, and my screwdriver tips dont snap off.
https://www.farmshow.com
The above magazine showcases the sort of projects I prefer. My projects dont have many of the space restrictions or specialty tool requirements of modern cars. Maybe that why I am happy with designs from the fifties as long as my hammer faces are hard enough, my prybars dont bend, and my screwdriver tips dont snap off.
rlitman
Well-known member
I'm the first to agree with the "rounding error", and that parabolic striking heads was a stretch at best.
When it comes to tools for hexagonal fasteners, off-corner engagement was a truly revolutionary shift. I see Flank Drive patents from Snap On filed in 1963 and 1966, but it wasn't until the late 1990's that I started seeing the technology really become mainstream. And I would put up any HF socket from today, against any 1950's Snap On socket. That little change obsoleted everything that came before it.
Composite handled ratchets don't just keep your hands warm. They prevent electrical accidents (such as shorting battery terminals).
I don't know what's the next hand tool to see a similar revolutionary change, but if I did, I'd have the patent, and plenty of money to retire already.
When it comes to tools for hexagonal fasteners, off-corner engagement was a truly revolutionary shift. I see Flank Drive patents from Snap On filed in 1963 and 1966, but it wasn't until the late 1990's that I started seeing the technology really become mainstream. And I would put up any HF socket from today, against any 1950's Snap On socket. That little change obsoleted everything that came before it.
Composite handled ratchets don't just keep your hands warm. They prevent electrical accidents (such as shorting battery terminals).
I don't know what's the next hand tool to see a similar revolutionary change, but if I did, I'd have the patent, and plenty of money to retire already.
I work mostly on late model cars. But the history of tools and the thinking behind them was getting blurry.
So I built a tool kit in the style of post WWII mechanics before the combo wrench took hold really well. It was sorta clear going back any farther would be too limiting as pre-war kits were pretty thin on being versatile in todays stuff.
I had to use modern tools because its all metric now but wide hipped DOE and just regular sockets formed the base of the kit.
And I took it to work leaving the regular kit aside for fails, just in case.
Even the flip to reverse ratchet has presented zero problems at all.
After two weeks the regular kit was taken home and retired. The retro kit is still in use with a few required twists like Torx and an oil filter pliers but it has been years. Living archeology if you will but it works well.
Point being the older style tools still do as much as the flashy new versions and get the jobs out. And its maybe not the best plan for a flat rate guy but I am not.
So I built a tool kit in the style of post WWII mechanics before the combo wrench took hold really well. It was sorta clear going back any farther would be too limiting as pre-war kits were pretty thin on being versatile in todays stuff.
I had to use modern tools because its all metric now but wide hipped DOE and just regular sockets formed the base of the kit.
And I took it to work leaving the regular kit aside for fails, just in case.
Even the flip to reverse ratchet has presented zero problems at all.
After two weeks the regular kit was taken home and retired. The retro kit is still in use with a few required twists like Torx and an oil filter pliers but it has been years. Living archeology if you will but it works well.
Point being the older style tools still do as much as the flashy new versions and get the jobs out. And its maybe not the best plan for a flat rate guy but I am not.
mrborohachi
Well-known member
A Gearwrench 1/4" drive socket/ratchet set would serve you well. The set has sockets sizes: 3/16-inch through 9/16-inch and 4mm through 15mm. This set would tackle most of what you would run into as far as light maintenance on an import car. What I love about that set is that for any around the house repairs its all I need for SAE sizes.
The AutoZone Duralast ratcheting wrenches are great. I have yet to break any of mine.
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OP
Lelandwelds
Well-known member
Well, slow yet surely, I am learning. Called a friend up and expected him to agree with me. Instead, he rushed over to make fun of me and loan me his Gearwrench ratcheting wrenches. I've never used one before. I can see how they are handy.
After a bit of ribbing, he agreed with me, said they had invented this thing called the internet, and suggested I join a garage forum and learn a thing or to. Probably will take his advice.
I have the fancy new ratchets and recently sold a set of flex ratchet wrenches.
They worked perfectly and never gave issue, I just didn't use them for three years. I found another way to undo bolts and kinda forgot about them.
The trick offset flex head line wrenches are still with me and are not for sale. I used them twice. Otherwise regular wrenches just get the job done. Outside of the diesel shop they don't have much calling.
Nothing wrong with all the trick stuff and it is fun to play with. But most times the difference is just in your head. Any of seven other tools would remove the same bolt.
I want Wera Joker wrenches and some other fun stuff I don't need. And I might buy some of them anyway, but not today.
I could give away half of what I have and not suffer.
They worked perfectly and never gave issue, I just didn't use them for three years. I found another way to undo bolts and kinda forgot about them.
The trick offset flex head line wrenches are still with me and are not for sale. I used them twice. Otherwise regular wrenches just get the job done. Outside of the diesel shop they don't have much calling.
Nothing wrong with all the trick stuff and it is fun to play with. But most times the difference is just in your head. Any of seven other tools would remove the same bolt.
I want Wera Joker wrenches and some other fun stuff I don't need. And I might buy some of them anyway, but not today.
I could give away half of what I have and not suffer.
OP
Lelandwelds
Well-known member
I get that. Shiny things distract me too. My gripe is what's up with tools being made wrong?
I have a new hammer and prybar. They're tempered too soft for the intended use. Theyre nothing special, just retail hardware store items. And yes, they are " made in China". But, isn't everything? In concept, these are a rock and a stick. Both were perfected a lot longer than a century ago.
Codejack
Banned
I've had that happen with USA tools, and I've got China tools that are great; I no longer concern myself with country of origin unless it is the only difference.
That being said, the art and science of metallurgy continues to advance; the kind of steels and processes they are using in a lot of tools today didn't exist 50 years ago. The availability of the knowledge needed to create good steel and tools is more widespread than ever.
We have never perfected "a rock and a stick," it just keeps getting better and better
OP
Lelandwelds
Well-known member
I bet if I did a spark test on both they would be something like 1060. My results are sometimes hit or miss but I just HT with a magnet, my eyeball, and a bucket of oil. I would have redone it if mine was too soft.
It is like the mfg is using the " widespread availability of knowledge " to intentionally deliver a substandard product.