lol we would be completely lost without jon. bless his heart
Tools of Japan
- Thread starter Frankstools
- Start date
lol we would be completely lost without jon. bless his heart
Qualitytools
Well-known member
Very Nice but I already have so many sets like them that I need to stop buying. WOW, did I say that!!* VESSEL deal of the month *
Free 2-pack of VESSEL #2 phillips bits with ANY Vessel purchase while supplies last through April 2022. Must add a note or comment to the order during checkout. Order from BowersTool.com or BowersTool on eBay.
Vessel (JAPAN) 31-piece Impact Torsion Bit Set in case
$39.99 incl. shipping
Currently Bowers has 59 different Vessel items listed on Ebay which range from $8 to $110 - lots to choose from.
Thanks Nelson!
Reed Prince
Well-known member
Sets like that are nice to have in your trunk when you want to make sure you have one of everything. I own a few.
I'm also running out of space in my workbench bit drawer. Which is probably a good thing.
terrapinwheeler
Member
10-4, thank you!
four.cycle
Well-known member
Took advantage of Bowers Tool Deal of the Month on VESSEL products and grabbed a couple of the 31-piece impact bit kits - one for me and one for my buddy - the little two-packs of the #2 phillips bits were the freebies.
Haven't taken them out to play with them yet, but just a quick glance at these tells me they were made with a bit more care than the generic screw shredders we've been using. Will report back after we've both had an opportunity to beat the **** out of them.
Sets like that are nice to have in your trunk when you want to make sure you have one of everything. I own a few.
I'm also running out of space in my workbench bit drawer. Which is probably a good thing.
For some reason as soon as I saw this pic I thought "tetris"
Well, they're somehow not the same. And yes, Koken USA is more $ for what I've double checked between the two. But I don't understand what's going on with Koken USA and Palmac. Koken USA has stuff that Palmac doesn't. And they're next door to each other. Month's back I needed replacement sleeves for a Koken lug nut impact socket. Amazon.jp had them for ~$1 but doesn't ship that item to the US. Palmac didn't even list it. Koken USA is next door and somehow had them in stock for $3?.
It would be interesting to know what is actually going on with both Palmac and Koken USA. It makes sense to me.
Everything I've purchased from Palmac (2 orders) and Koken USA has listed as in stock and it shipped within a few days. If it's not in stock and has to come from Japan, that might take weeks. But I've had great service from both.
Daytonaer
Well-known member
Koken-USA and Palmac are two entirely separate businesses. Koken-USA only sells Koken tools. Palmac sells Koken tools and 30 other tool brands. Koken-USA is owned by Ko-ken Tools in Japan. Palmac is owned by Blackstone Global.
That doesn't align to what has been posted in the past regarding Palmac, as they both share the same address which lead many to believe they might be the same entity.
16again
Well-known member
They also share the same phone number. Called them twice during last couple weeks. Phone Prompts ask you which company you want to connect to.
Get Outahere with that information already!
Gregthegadgetguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2021
- Messages
- 67
A few months ago I picked up some Nepros T handle drivers. The weight and balance is really what sets these apart from other brands I have tried.
Bonus feature is that they nest nicely in my Assistent 166N
Small magnet holds bolts in place. It is not super powerful but strong enough
Bonus feature is that they nest nicely in my Assistent 166N
Small magnet holds bolts in place. It is not super powerful but strong enough
I did some more digging. Koken-USA makes no mention in the "about us" section of their website about being a part of Blackstone Global. Palmac does.
I checked at the Blackstone Global website: Koken-USA, Palmac, Assembly Products, and OSAAP are listed as being part of Blackstone. Blackstone is located at 10 Kidder Rd, Unit #4. Palmac is in Unit #6. Koken-USA is in Unit #8
COMPANIES | Blackstone Global
Learn more about the companies under the Blackstone Global umbrella. Focusing on tools (both industrial and hand), automation, and tool organization.
www.blkcorp.com
Blackstonge Global Inc. A Holding Company
At Blackstone Global, we drive innovation and growth in North American manufacturing across electronics, medical, and industrial markets. By fostering synergy between our companies, leveraging shared overhead, and maintaining strong partnerships with 140+ industrial distributors.
www.blkcorp.com
Explore Palmac Tools for Quality Equipment
Discover Palmac Tools, your go-to source for high-quality tools and equipment for various projects.
palmac.net
Ko-ken USA Homepage
We are the North American Source of Ko-ken Tools from Japan. Our parent company, Ko-ken Tools, is a fourth generation family owned and operated business in Japan, with 140+ employees. The focus of the business is entirely on Sockets and Socket wrenches.
kokenusa.com
About Ko-ken USA
KOKEN USA and our amazing, authorized distribution network of tool professionals provide the automotive, aerospace, medical, and general manufacturing industries as well as car, motorcycle, bicycle enthusiasts through out North America with top of the line sockets and ratchets for their specific...
kokenusa.com
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When do you find yourself using them? I am always curious how people use tools like these.A few months ago I picked up some Nepros T handle drivers. The weight and balance is really what sets these apart from other brands I have tried.
Bonus feature is that they nest nicely in my Assistent 166N
Small magnet holds bolts in place. It is not super powerful but strong enough
16again
Well-known member
GrantCee
Well-known member
And guess who the President and Founder of Blackstone Global is? Yep, Jim Chase.
Gregthegadgetguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2021
- Messages
- 67
I basically only use T-handle drivers for service on my KTM dirt bike. It's nice to be able to crack a bolt loose then bring it out quick with a few turns of the handle. I feel the T-handle gives more control over the torque put down, with two hands it provides a different feel than one on a ratchet.
They are not so useful in the automotive world because there is often times not enough space to turn the handle. Working almost exclusively on motorcycles and bicycles I rarely run into situations where they do not work.
Dave455
Well-known member
I use T handles (sometimes a Sliding T, extension and socket) a lot. Great for setting up machines - working on toolposts and setting stops, and also for doing repetitive assembly work.
With a T handle there’s usually just enough leverage to loosen a fastener, but if it gets really loose you can just spin it off. For some jobs you get used to a T handle, and a ratchet seems quite slow and cumbersome.
Those Nepros look superb to me. It’s a shame they only make JIS sizes. I’ll probably be tempted by the version with the square drive at some point.
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kyrbz
Well-known member
Where did you get them? They look quite nice.A few months ago I picked up some Nepros T handle drivers. The weight and balance is really what sets these apart from other brands I have tried.
Bonus feature is that they nest nicely in my Assistent 166N
Small magnet holds bolts in place. It is not super powerful but strong enough
Longtime lurker and fan of Japanese manufacturing. I was organizing a new tool draw and noticed this ancient 3/8 extension. I'm not sure if this Pittsburgh predates harbor freight?
Yes, that is early HF. In the 80s they branded it as Pittsburg Forge. My stuff is all Taiwan, but that might be earlier than ~1985
Agree, but when I ordered, Koken lists, and stocked, the impact socket sleeves and Palmac didn't even list them. And they're next door, and I guess in the same building. But yes, otherwise, get it from Palmac as they were cheaper on everything that I cross-checked. I placed an order on each site, back to back, and the ordering portion of both sites is 100% identical, every step of the way, essentially down to the fonts used.
Which is why I don't understand why have two different business names? I assume it's some type of accounting nonsense, but I'm too logical to be able to understand why you'd bother doing this. But I guess there's a reason.
pizza
Well-known member
it's hard to know all the reasons, but it doesn't sound weird to me.
palmac predates koken usa.
sounds like this jim chase guy has a hard-on for koken stuff. i don't blame him. i do, too.
he manages to get a deal with them and even basically becomes the defacto, sole official usa distributor.
palmac has pre-existing business channels selling koken and other tools. he's not going to pull koken tools from palmac.
the newly secured Koken USA is too good to pass up. who wouldn't want to sell an imported brand X under the name "X USA"? obviously sell them out of that as well. and advertise it hard at trade shows and stuff. it is much more authoritative sounding than palmac.
as for the price discrepancy between palmac and koken usa, idk what the strategy is.
maybe the koken usa entity is actually owned or controlled by koken, and they wanted to have the prices a little higher on it for some reason. maybe they figured they could make a little more money from rubes buying direct from koken usa?
palmac predates koken usa.
sounds like this jim chase guy has a hard-on for koken stuff. i don't blame him. i do, too.
he manages to get a deal with them and even basically becomes the defacto, sole official usa distributor.
palmac has pre-existing business channels selling koken and other tools. he's not going to pull koken tools from palmac.
the newly secured Koken USA is too good to pass up. who wouldn't want to sell an imported brand X under the name "X USA"? obviously sell them out of that as well. and advertise it hard at trade shows and stuff. it is much more authoritative sounding than palmac.
as for the price discrepancy between palmac and koken usa, idk what the strategy is.
maybe the koken usa entity is actually owned or controlled by koken, and they wanted to have the prices a little higher on it for some reason. maybe they figured they could make a little more money from rubes buying direct from koken usa?
And your credit card payment goes to Assembly Products, another company under the Blackstone Global umbrella. I don't understand it either.
Welcome to Assembly Products
We are a Distributor and Manufacturers' Rep firm servicing the Industrial, Electronics, and Medical Device assembly marketplace. We focus on adding value to our customers manufacturing processes through applications engineering support, service and, technical sales expertise.
assemblyproducts.us
BlitzcrankJapan
Well-known member
They are the main distributor, possibly owned by the Japan company, to service other distributors or shops wholesale . Their prices are high for a reason, because they do not want to compete against their distributors (their clients) while at the same time still have a presence and offer their tools for anyone stupid or ignorant enough to want to buy at these prices, ie you and me the retail client.
This is how the industry works.
Gedore has prices and an online shop for all their tools, example 3463€
At Amazon this is less than half price, 1500eur, it is also less at a Gedore retailer near me. The above explains why. The amazon price of 1500e is the "real" retail price and of course amazon makes a hefty profit off it.
A thing to note is promotions, you see a promotion on the main site and you will think it is a good deal; it will be sold for even less at a wholesaler of the said brand.
Sometimes due to absence of online sellers for an item, someone will put the expensive price online (or ebay) simply because no one else is selling the item online. This is what tbs-aachen.de does and makes a killing selling worldwide for known german tool brands. Their shipping is cheap but their prices are not.
Dont overpay on tools ppl, I see these snapon prices at full retail and rofl. I understand every business must make a profit but for myself, I want to buy at the cheapest price possible and thats why tool discounts of 50% are very realistic.
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Another example, a UK brand Teng tools, sponsoring Edd China and the TV program Wheeler Dealers in the past.
They have a very active online shop and you go to the list of their online retailers at their own website, randomly pick a retailer and the price for the same item is 50% lower, how is this possible lol.
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BlitzcrankJapan
Well-known member
It is not far off of Snap-On's business model. In other words 'Marketing'.
By having a high RRP they can say that the item is 'worth' a lot. This makes you think it is high quality and it also means that they can provide big discounts and you will feel that you are getting these high quality tools at such a good deal.
That is why brands like Teng and Snap-On are often bought for half or less the RRP.
When purchased at the 'discount deal' price you will see that Snap-On is actually inline with other premium brand prices such as Stahlwille, KTC, Gedore, etc.
Of course this is very dependent on which region you are buying in.
In other news I just ordered some more Ko-Ken items.
| Koken 4768N-600 Swivel Hinge Handle 1/2″ Drive 24″ 600mm Breaker Bar - Made in Japan | 1 | |
| Koken 3726Z-280 Z Series 3/8″ Square Drive Flexible Head Reversible Ratchet 280mm 72 Teeth - Made in Japan | 1 | |
| Koken RS4300M/10 1/2″ Square Drive Socket Set Deep 6 Point 10 Piece 10mm-22mm – Made in Japan | 1 |
I really wish the Deep socket set went to 32mm like their 'standard' socket set does. But it should still work nicely with the breaker bar for stuck bolts.
The 3/8" ratchet should save me from using my 3/8" breaker bar. It is also slightly longer at 280mm vs my current Ko-ken breaker bar at 250mm.
Dave455
Well-known member
I would agree that this happens a lot. Bit off topic I know, but I don’t think TBS Aachen are particularly guilty of this, in fact I find their prices generally competitive. Some examples. These prices include tax too! U.S. readers avert your eyes now…
Sure, if you are making an expensive purchase you would want to shop around, and you might (or might not) get a better deal, but for day to day requirements I find TBS hard to beat!
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This is the cheapest Knipex pliers, non-chromed and with dipped handles. I can get it for the same, if a bit less, at a trade shop in Athens, Greece, 4 countries away from Germany. They give me better prices for Hazet tools than the best price you will see at idealo.de, the German price comparison site for German online shopsI would agree that this happens a lot. Bit off topic I know, but I don’t think TBS Aachen are particularly guilty of this, in fact I find their prices generally competitive. Some examples. These prices include tax too! U.S. readers avert your eyes now…
Sure, if you are making an expensive purchase you would want to shop around, and you might (or might not) get a better deal, but for day to day requirements I find TBS hard to beat!
For Stahlwille I don't know, no one sells it here so I have only bought online.
The Gedore screwdriver set is a special offer, the similar Hazet set I can get here for about 12 eur. People don't generally know it but screwdrivers are cheap! Even good ones.
Spongebob89
Well-known member
This is the cheapest Knipex pliers, non-chromed and with dipped handles. I can get it for the same, if a bit less, at a trade shop in Athens, Greece, 4 countries away from Germany. They give me better prices for Hazet tools than the best price you will see at idealo.de, the German price comparison site for German online shops
For Stahlwille I don't know, no one sells it here so I have only bought online.
The Gedore screwdriver set is a special offer, the similar Hazet set I can get here for about 12 eur. People don't generally know it but screwdrivers are cheap! Even good ones.
I totaly agree... below is a Greek online shop as you can see the prices
03 01 180 Πένσα Μηχανικού KNIPEX
03 01 180 Πένσα Μηχανικού KNIPEX επιφάνειες σύσφιξης για πλακέ και στρογγυλά αντικείμενα, κατάλληλες για πολλές χρήσεις με κοπτικές ακμές για μαλακά και σκληρά σύρματα κοπτικές ακμές μεγάλου μήκους για την κοπή μεγάλων καλωδίων κοπτικές ακμές συμπλη
www.pam.gr
Thanks for the responses. I'll probably go with Toptul if I do opt to upgrade my wrenches.
Probably order a couple of KTC ratchets though.
sweet victory
Well-known member
It's not uncommon to run multiple business out of the same group/facility/etc.
We do something similar where I work, and there are a multitude of reasons to do so: Most modern ERP/inventory systems give you the ability to run multiple companies with your same license (this saves you at minimum 300k+ per company depending how big the organizations are), limit liability/reduce risk, and how/who you market your various companies. I.e. Palmac seems more targeted for business to business, whereas KokenUSA seems more set up for direct to consumer sales, having an official US presence, and being able to have a domestic warranty center.
Palmac, for all intents and purposes, is KokenUSA. If you've bought from PBSwiss USA, you know you're dealing with Count On Tools. This is nothing new.
We do something similar where I work, and there are a multitude of reasons to do so: Most modern ERP/inventory systems give you the ability to run multiple companies with your same license (this saves you at minimum 300k+ per company depending how big the organizations are), limit liability/reduce risk, and how/who you market your various companies. I.e. Palmac seems more targeted for business to business, whereas KokenUSA seems more set up for direct to consumer sales, having an official US presence, and being able to have a domestic warranty center.
Palmac, for all intents and purposes, is KokenUSA. If you've bought from PBSwiss USA, you know you're dealing with Count On Tools. This is nothing new.
I’m so addicted to Koken tools, it’s not funny.
Just received RS2300MZ/12 Zeal deep 1/4 sockets and RS3300MZ/12 Zeal deep 3/8 sockets. I love the Koken magnetic rails it comes with. These sockets are beautiful!
I ordered these through Palmac and the packaging, packing slip, and the Thank You card were all from Koken USA.
Just received RS2300MZ/12 Zeal deep 1/4 sockets and RS3300MZ/12 Zeal deep 3/8 sockets. I love the Koken magnetic rails it comes with. These sockets are beautiful!
I ordered these through Palmac and the packaging, packing slip, and the Thank You card were all from Koken USA.
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Dave455
Well-known member
I do sympathise!I’m so addicted to Koken tools, it’s not funny.
Just received RS2300MZ/12 Zeal deep 1/4 sockets and RS3300MZ/12 Zeal deep 3/8 sockets. I love the Koken magnetic rails it comes with. These sockets are beautiful!
I ordered these through Palmac and the packaging, packing slip, and the Thank You card were all from Koken USA.
The thing I find with KoKen is that the buying experience is always good.
You’re conscious you’re buying something less costly than many alternatives (at least where I am, buying the regular line) but you don’t get “lesser” tools. Everything I’ve ever bought from them has been flawless, and even the packing ensures the tools reach me in good shape.
You never get “buyers remorse”! Rather a feeling that “this is top end stuff”, at which point you want some more!
1/4” Zeal is looking pretty awesome from here…