Tools...Should they be for Users or Collectors

[bczygan]

I hate it when various types of tools become "Collector's Items".

Examples abound.

It isn't so bad for tools in present day production and plentiful supply, like Snap-on.

But "Old American Iron", from stationary machines to hand tools, become more and more scarce and "Collectable".

The price gets driven up until the average user can't afford them. They then end up in collectors hordes.

It's classic supply and demand, but I hate it.

But I participate in it too. I have way more then the 1 or 2 or even 3 vises I could use. All the extras in my "collection" are unavailable for others to use. And that drives up demand and price.

What's the solution? Should all of us with excess tools sell them to users?

Bill

 

[383 240z]

If I had unlimited funds, I might consider collecting tools. But do I really need 4 vises? 4-5 MIG welders, and a handful of Snap-on 3/8 drive 80 tooth ratchets? No. Heck I can barely justify the 3 vises that I have. One on my work bench in the machine shop, a leg vise out in the main shop, and one on my welding bench. If I had 4-5 spares that were worth a few bucks, you can bet they would be for sale, and I'd be putting that $$ towards tools I don't have yet I need. I mean am I really going to break a vise? Not unless I'm abusing it, but guys who abuse them really don't value tools the same way we do. Keith

 

[bczygan]

If I had unlimited funds, I might consider collecting tools. But do I really need 4 vises? 4-5 MIG welders, and a handful of Snap-on 3/8 drive 80 tooth ratchets? No. Heck I can barely justify the 3 vises that I have. One on my work bench in the machine shop, a leg vise out in the main shop, and one on my welding bench. If I had 4-5 spares that were worth a few bucks, you can bet they would be for sale, and I'd be putting that $$ towards tools I don't have yet I need. I mean am I really going to break a vise? Not unless I'm abusing it, but guys who abuse them really don't value tools the same way we do. Keith

That sounds like one vote for the user column. Should we have a poll?

 

[383 240z]

Is teken back yet? Keith

 

[Swan]

Tools are meant to be used.

 

[arms1970]

The whole collecting things never made sense to me. Unless you were gonna invest and make MONEY at the present/future. After I cleaned my dads garage out when he passed away. He had 5-6 of everything. Can't take this stuff with you. After that materialistic things don't really mean anything to me anymore. I buy what I need.

 

[rickhigginshtbr]

i use my "collector" tools. I use both my CMan block grinders, a lot. My go to 1/2" drive ratchet when I need to bust something loose is an early 50's Proto... I love using my CMan RHFT ratchets. Hell, I even use my =V= sockets as well. Need to make a very small precise hole? Use a push drill or egg beater, more exact than any of my corded or cordless drills.

 

[Banjorear]

Tools are meant to be used.

+1.

That said, I have a lot of tools, but they do get used.

Actually, this holiday break I'm going to do a tool box reorg and sell of doubles or stuff that I'm not using now.

 

[Rico.]

I think there are two distinctly different types of collectors. One keeps history alive and
should be commended for saving rare items for future generations to experience, and the
others are obsesive hoarding nutcases that live their lives like Scrat, the sabre tooth
squirrel from Ice Age... with the motto "One Good.... More Better"

What is the point of having 10, 20 or 100 of the same type of ratchet..?
Even if you consider a particular type of ratchet "art" what is the point of having more than
one of that particular model on display.... I mean people don't have 100 prints of exactly
the same picture plastered all over the walls of their house.

If you own 20 ratchets and use all of them, then thats fine.... maybe you're the sort of
person that likes to have a different size socket on each ratchet to save time, that I do
understand. If you buy 100 of the same ratchet as an investment, this could be a
debateable point, but I would suggest there are better ways to invest your money.

If you had a large classic car museum you wouldn't have 300 cars of the same Year,
Make and Model would you. So to sum up... Buying rare things including tools for other
people to see, that otherwise may never see them, is a very good thing. Buying 100 of
the same type of thing, just for you to look at and not use seems insane to me. Buy one
for display by all means if you like the look of it, but 100 kept in a box... really..??

As you may gather I am in the "User" camp.... I actually sold a standard size ratchet
as I had three of them, and I can only use two at a time and I felt better for it. I would
love for someone that does have many many multiples of exactly the same thing to
exlain their rationale behind it.

Cheers.

 

[1950mercury]

To each his own.....i buy my tools to use not to sit there and take up space or to be a look what i have tool

 

[larry_g]

I mean am I really going to break a vise? Not unless I'm abusing it, but guys who abuse them really don't value tools the same way we do. Keith

I'm sure to a lot of collectors any use is abuse. To a user any use of a tool that does not destroy it is 'gittin it done'. There is a time that one will sacrifice a tool if it works. I have a fairly large accumulation of tools and since joining here I find that some of them are collectible to some people. To me they are a tool to do a job. However now-a-days I probably would not 'abuse' some of the older collectibles like I would in the past. And if someone comes along with a hankering to trade new tools for old I probably would.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[DieselSaves]

I think there are two distinctly different types of collectors. One keeps history alive and
should be commended for saving rare items for future generations to experience, and the
others are obsesive hoarding nutcases that live their lives like Scrat, the sabre tooth
squirrel from Ice Age... with the motto "One Good.... More Better"

We use old stuff here, like vintage cast iron and old tool boxes. At auctions where I get most of my old Griswold cookware the second type of collector comes out in droves. They may never have lit a fire in a Monarch or Hero Majestic but they just have to have that #9 handle gridle or cast waffle iron.

I do look for doubles of my favorite cast pieces, knives, old books and so on, but mostly to give out as gifts to someone else that I think will enjoy it.

 

[zkling]

Very interesting topic, thanks for bringing it up bczygan.

Agree on the "prices get driven up part". According to some sellers everything that is older is "collectable" or "rare" or.....

Best example I can think of is old hand braced drill. Not many people use them, heck not many know what they even are, but when they try to sell them. "O that is an antique $$$$$". We have a local antique mall that is a good laugh at times. Dang near ever booth has multiple of the braces yet all are priced very high and labeled "rare", "collectable" and so on. OK sure. If it was so rare, why does it seem everybody and their cousin has one?

Tools are meant to be used.

Not all IMHO. Look at some of the promo or limited edition stuff from snap on and other makers. Hold on guys let me go grab my gold plated ratchet set.

Joking, I do not own a gold plated ratchet set.

I think there are two distinctly different types of collectors. One keeps history alive and should be commended for saving rare items for future generations to experience, and the others are obsesive hoarding nutcases that live their lives like Scrat, the sabre tooth squirrel from Ice Age... with the motto "One Good.... More Better"

What is the point of having 10, 20 or 100 of the same type of ratchet..?

If you own 20 ratchets and use all of them, then thats fine.... maybe you're the sort of
person that likes to have a different size socket on each ratchet to save time, that I do
understand. If you buy 100 of the same ratchet as an investment, this could be a
debateable point, but I would suggest there are better ways to invest your money.

EDITED TO SAVE SPACE

Cheers.

Rico, is a sage person. I think I agree with everything he says on here

And with that I think Rico hit the nail on the head. Especially in tools and firearms there are two vastly different groups of collectors.

The "it has never been used, OMG I need to have that, money is no object. It will look sweet hanging on my wall or in my safe"
OR
The "That is a neat old piece, I'd love to use it / take it out in the field and appreciate the simpler times, bumps bruises and scraps don't matter as long as it works and the price is right"

I'll have to add later.

 

[KF5LCH]

I have tools from the 1930's all the way up to present day. I like to use them all. I might not use a tool but once a month, but at least I have it if I need it.

I like to take it easy on old stuff, mainly my Grandpaws old tools. Obviously if I have a new, run of the mill breaker bar I'm not going to use my Grandpaws Plomb breaker bar. It still gets used, just not with a cheater pipe like my Lowes special.

Use them or hang them up on the wall & look at them I say. Whatever makes you happy.

 

[fatfillup]

As a tool reseller, I like when values go up. And so should most of you guys. If at some point you or your family needs to sell your tools, it would be nice if they got good money for them.

Oh, deals can always be found if you look long enough.

 

[RatchetMan]

This topic comes up all the time and not just in relation to tools. It might be guns, furniture, cars, whatever. Fact is, in this country we have a ton of discretionary income even with all the griping that the gubment is making us all go broke. I bet that if I started selling vintage motor oil on Craigslist tomorrow claiming that "they don't make oil like this anymore. This is virgin crude and should be the only thing used in classic cars" I'd have people lining up to buy it. I'm amazed at what people pay for old Coke signs. What makes old Coke signs so cool?

We Americans have a fascination with wealth, especially tangible wealth. While it's pretty easy to argue that owning a stock for 50 years will return more wealth than owning a vise for 50 years, people like the ability to go out into their garage, fondle the vise, stare at the vise, turn the handle, etc. and imagine what the vise is worth. But, I've not yet seen any newspaper headlines that read, "Man Sells Vise Collection and Retires Rich at Age 52".

We've talked about it before but the American Picker syndrome runs rampant. What people forget is that those Picker guys are opportunists and not just when it comes to "rusty gold". They knew they'd make way more money hosting a TV show than they'd ever make digging up junk in peoples' garages.

Let's say you go out every day of the year and buy a "collectible" that you immediately flip for a $100 profit. With an average of 20 business days per month, you'd make $2K/month or $24K/year. In my neck of the woods, that's not much of a living and that's assuming you are able to score an item every single day for a $100 profit, which is unrealistic. Those Pickers probably now make that much per TV episode. But, all the public sees is "them fellas are gettin' rich on rusty gold". So, the collecting continues and now old hand braced drills are $40........

 

[Exceller8]

I would say that most tools are meant to be used. The exception might be the 24K limited edition tools. I can't think of anything in my little home shop that I wouldn't use. I do believe in 'beater' tools for tough jobs though.

 

[Farmall450]

Why not both?!?!?

 

[Rico.]

Rico, is a sage person. I think I agree with everything he says on here

Well ****** my old boots..... I guess for everything there really is a first time.

 

[bimmerZ5]

i'm ok with people who collect tools. but what i don't like are the "artificial" collector's items.... meaning, a manufacturer specifically made a small quantity of some tool and gold plated it or etched something special on it and it's meant for the collector's market and generally overpriced with artificially low supply. this **** is stupid.

now, in contrast, I totally appreciate a special wrench that was used during WW-I by Germans to work on a special fastener on their tanks that is now really hard to find and rare. I can appreciate someone collecting something like that *and* not using it but putting it in a display case because it has history and tells a story. this **** has meaning.

 

[scaron]

well, tools are there to be used but like any object, it can be collected. everyone's into something different. some people are into collecting tools. some people take it too far. some don't. just the way it is.

 

[GoodEnough]

If the stuff is worth more than you paid, you're a collector.
If the stuff is worth less than you paid, you're a hoarder who needs professional help.

 

[CAOS]

Until you start buying me my tools, you don't have a say what I do with them!

I now have 14 vise's all thanks to the garage journal. ****. I do not collect anything else though.

 

[tjmonsen5]

I have a rag and tin can of chrome polish in each drawer of my toolbox. Also rubber gloves and hand sanitizer. Don't want any germs to infest that beautiful chrome! My snapon toolbox gets shrink wrapped every night when I am done in the garage. Dust hurts the value. Don't you dare lean against my box either.

 

[zkling]

If the stuff is worth more than you paid, you're a collector.
If the stuff is worth less than you paid, you're a hoarder who needs professional help.

I don't think that could be further from the truth.

 

[Kev442]

I used to collect. Coins, stamps, comic books. It was something to do when I was young.
I have never collected tools. I have some tools I got as gifts when I was 8-9 years old. I still use them when the need arises. We got a pile of tools in the basement of the building we moved into in '86. I use them, some I found were from the 20's. Should I hoard them? Preserve them? Why? They are worth about $5 each. They make me happy when I use them.
I would have bought a US vise when I wanted one. None to found on CL, they are all being hoarded. My one chinesium vise is doing the job. I sure as hell don't want 14-100 vises, enjoy tripping over them for the rest of your life. I don't get it at all.

There is a trend happening out there that isn't being noticed. Well over half the younger generation is not into a house/garage stuffed to the gills with things. They hang their TV on the wall, use their tablet for the net and aren't into old furniture, knick knacks or tools. Very minimalist. Heck, over 50% of my generation is that way, so it might be 75% of the youngins'

My Mom's Hummels are worthless. My wife's Lladros are right behind. The top 1% will always be worth something, the other 99% will be virtually worthless.

 

[taumac]

I think there's nothing wrong with collecting what you wish... But I do think with reselling tools and such its only worth what someone is willing to buy it for.

 

[Zeke]

Tools are meant to be used.

I use all of them, collectible or not. I have plenty of tools pre WWII and they get used all the time. I have some from much earlier than that, but they are kind of esoteric so I don't find the need to use them much. But I would if the occasion presented itself.

 

[devoncoolman]

I have a lot of tools probably have 20 ratchets at work 30 or so at home have probably 200 wrenches. But i use every single one of them. Dont polish them either. I consider my self a user/collector. I make my living with my tools and im not affraid the break one either. But i take care of my tools. I have very few actual collectable tools. Have 24k gold played ratchet and an old ferret ratchet. Which i have actually used before it sits with all my others in my work box.

 

[BFBOB]

I'm both. I collect Penncrafts for sentimental reasons. But, that wouldn't matter if they weren't good tools that I use all the time. Penny's made (or more accurately had re-branded) a lot of tools I don't need, and so I don't buy (collect) them. Like, a NOS Penncraft branded Dymo Labelmaker. You gotta be kidding!

 

[d.mcfarland]

We didn't separate sentimental collecting vs "just for kicks" collecting. I know many here hand on to things, and maybe even use them just because they are from family members who are no longer with us.

 

[rickhigginshtbr]

We didn't separate sentimental collecting vs "just for kicks" collecting. I know many here hand on to things, and maybe even use them just because they are from family members who are no longer with us.

That's what started my 50's Cman collection... memories of my grandpa's box and the 1/4" RHFT rat he gave me when I was 6... he passed when I was 8, so...

 

[montanafordman]

What difference does it make and who cares? If its your money you should be able to waste it whatever way you like. If you use every single tool you own on a weekly basis - good for you! Here's a cookie. I have a 3/8 flex craftsman and 3/8 flex Snap-On ratchet, a standard 3/8 dual 80, craftsman full polish, sk fine tooth and sk 45170 3/8's ratchets. I'm not a pro mechanic but I like to work on my own vehicles when able, and have mechanically restored a 31 model A but lets get serious. I could have, and have done most all of the work to date with 2 of those ratchets but I think its fun to have some variety and I appreciate the history and design of them all. I also have an assortment of sizes to fill those damn Hansen trays that I will likely never use but my OCD likes to have a complete set. Does that make me a collector, poser, home wannabe mechanic, or well equipped DIY entrepreneur? Why should it matter? As long as I can pay my bills it shouldn't matter if I decide to collect a few extra Snap-On items or socket sizes. People used to (and probably still do) collect beanie babies.. A stupid investment IMO but hey whatever floats your boat. I think most all of us like shiny chrome tools no matter what we do with them. If you have 400 green hard handle Snap-On screwdrivers in your box I could care less - I just hope I get a good deal on a set at your estate/IRS or divorce settlement sale.

 

[outdoorsman310]

engineered for use, bought by anybody.

 

[GoodEnough]

My Mom's Hummels are worthless.

Are hummels like Beanie Babies?
They used to be collectible and then the market just evaporated?
OR, just your mom's particular Hummels are not worth much?
Are any Hummels still worth real money?
What year or decade did the hummel value market peak?

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I hate it when various types of tools become "Collector's Items".

Examples abound.

It isn't so bad for tools in present day production and plentiful supply, like Snap-on.

But "Old American Iron", from stationary machines to hand tools, become more and more scarce and "Collectable".

The price gets driven up until the average user can't afford them. They then end up in collectors hordes.

It's classic supply and demand, but I hate it.

But I participate in it too. I have way more then the 1 or 2 or even 3 vises I could use. All the extras in my "collection" are unavailable for others to use. And that drives up demand and price.

What's the solution? Should all of us with excess tools sell them to users?

Bill

Collectors vs Users ?? "average user" can't afford? Personally; I don't recall ever suffering from that line of thought... I buy the tools I want or need for intended use and maintain duplicate sets of commonly used tools.. That doesn't make me a collector or a hoarder.. My shop, vehicle and field service boxes contain very little "dime store junk", but mostly USA quality tools that I can depend on, and enjoy using. On the flip side; yep; there are people who collect tools, postage stamps, coins, toy trains, license plates, and a host of other things.. I believe there is room for all of us..

 

[Wakefield]

Buying up old tools that are out of production probably makes them more scarce if you aren't using them
buying lots of new tools that you aren't using (much) probably just makes Wright or Snap On make more of them-and eventually someone else will probably benefit from having them someday making them more plentiful

 

[cburnscrx]

Tools are meant to be used.

And cars are meant to be driven...I digress

 

[2oolhound]

I pick up old tools that I'm familiar with from when I was younger and using them. I tell my self "I might use this someday yet and be glad I bought it" Maybe I'm kidding myself. I'm afraid of the day I quit thinking that.

I've also bought gold plated ratchet wrench sets BUT I got em for less than regular wrenches were selling for including shipping. I fully intended using them till a buddy saw them and insisted I keep them pristine as collectables. I've since bought used s-o's as users so now they just sit. Any other collectables I've picked up are in my box as users.

If you are a user or a collector you are still an end user. What gets my goat is when I see something I'd really like to have somewhere like CL but when you contact the guy it's sold. Then you see it re-listed the next day for double the price. That only has to happen to us once or twice before we all start doing it too and then there really are no good deals to be had anymore.

 

[Bogdan M.]

I think a man has the right to do whatever he wants with his money.

So whatever he decides to do with his tools is his decision and someone else should not judge him for his decision.