**** Tools

[MarkH]

I learned one of life's great tool lessons the day my uncle caught me with the JC Witless catalog as he called it. At twelve I think ******* would have shocked him less. The lesson do not buy anything that if it fails will hurt you. These would be from cheap sources usually. He felt JC Witless was one of the them.

His message has held through unknown stuff made in the USA by what looked like a toy company, the move to Japan before its optical industry showed them how to manufacture and get a reputation, then on to Korea, Taiwan, China, and now India. There will always be someone trying to make money as the bottom dollar seller and looking for the next cheap place to make something. It was buyer beware and if they show up in equipment we buy we no longer use them even in the equipment tool boxes.

It is also a generational thing as most people cannot step into the thought process of another person. It was **** once it will always be ****. For a company do not try to live on a reputation unless you can maintain it. If you can you understand why for some Craftsman made the best balance of cost and quality tools, that for some like us tools as a necessity cost us big when they break due to the delay of return to service of what we are fixing so we think hard of the compromises of the cost the tools was made to sell at. You see today vs what the generational thought is.

 

[zendriver]

I learned one of life's great tool lessons the day my uncle caught me with the JC Witless catalog as he called it. At twelve I think ******* would have shocked him less. The lesson do not buy anything that if it fails will hurt you. These would be from cheap sources usually. He felt JC Witless was one of the them.

His message has held through unknown stuff made in the USA by what looked like a toy company, the move to Japan before its optical industry showed them how to manufacture and get a reputation, then on to Korea, Taiwan, China, and now India. There will always be someone trying to make money as the bottom dollar seller and looking for the next cheap place to make something. It was buyer beware and if they show up in equipment we buy we no longer use them even in the equipment tool boxes.

It is also a generational thing as most people cannot step into the thought process of another person. It was **** once it will always be ****. For a company do not try to live on a reputation unless you can maintain it. If you can you understand why for some Craftsman made the best balance of cost and quality tools, that for some like us tools as a necessity cost us big when they break due to the delay of return to service of what we are fixing so we think hard of the compromises of the cost the tools was made to sell at. You see today vs what the generational thought is.

Most of the stuff they sold was custom accessories.

Not sure how they could hurt anyone.

Well, this might.

 

[Great white]

I've always got a plastic bag or two of junk socket and such hanging around in my box's bottom drawer. They just seem to come to me, people always seem to be giving me their old tools from a "spring clean up" or "I'll never use these" type of deals.

If they're quality tools, I clean 'em up and keep 'em. I'd pass them on to someone who would use them if I could, but most of the people I know are just getting too old to want tools anymore. They want condo's and leased cars these days it seems...

But even the junk tools have purpose for me: they're great for cutting, hacking and welding up a special tool when you need one. It may only last that one job, but that's all I need it to. Then throw it away if it gets roached on the single job and not have to feel bad about cutting up a good socket or wrench.

So yeah, junk tools have their place in my shop, just not as "go to" stuff for regular jobs.

 

[66HertzClone]

I've never even seen a J.C. Whitney catalog, let alone owned any of their products, so I can't speak to the quality of your socket set.

If it was on a par level of quality as some of the garbage we were peddling in the 70's and early 80's, those sockets were made out of sawdust and glue, not cheese. Cheese would have held up better.

We originally started with Hollywood Accessories, as they were a line we were already carrying.
Then a guy named Bill Bolando started a company he called "Wilmar" up in Kent, and we started buying from them.
We could sell the Wilmar set for $8.88 retail and double our money in the stores, AND make 20% at the warehouse. Pure gravy.
Then one of the sales reps who sold us a ton of stuff, Cal Steiner, came in one day with a 40-piece 1/4" and 3/8" drive socket set - available in metric or standard - laid in from Los Angeles at $1.63 each (including shipping), AND we got 2% 10th proximo terms AND we finagled some ad money out of him on a couple other lines. Catch was: we had to buy them by the gross.
We brought them in. Blew them out on an ad for $3.99 LIFETIME GUARANTEE. We just told the people in the stores "Doesn't MATTER - just hand 'em a new one." We still made money on them.
Years later, I brought a huge box of "defective" sets downstairs out of the warehouse, salvaged some of the decent pieces out and gave them to a buddy who needed tools, and tossed the rest in the dumpster.

"BUFFALO" brand. Black label with Orange graphics - horrid looking graphics on the label.

I remember seeing a central chassis lubrication kit in the Whitney catalog. A manifold sort of thing with a single grease fitting on top and plenty of 1/8 NPR female threaded holes, a mile of thin plastic tubing and a mess of compression fittings for the plastic tubing that were to replace the grease fittings on the suspension parts. Imagine having this tubing connecting to the upper, lower control arms, and the fittings on the control arm shafts, then the tie rods and idler, pitman arm. If this was even possible to install would it last through the first drive?

And then there might be the idiot trying to install the fittings and tubing to the u-joints.......

 

[zendriver]

I worked at the family gas station.

Sweep the drive, or sit and read the latest JCW catalog from cover to cover?

 

[Firebrick43]

I remember seeing a central chassis lubrication kit in the Whitney catalog. A manifold sort of thing with a single grease fitting on top and plenty of 1/8 NPR female threaded holes, a mile of thin plastic tubing and a mess of compression fittings for the plastic tubing that were to replace the grease fittings on the suspension parts. Imagine having this tubing connecting to the upper, lower control arms, and the fittings on the control arm shafts, then the tie rods and idler, pitman arm. If this was even possible to install would it last through the first drive?

And then there might be the idiot trying to install the fittings and tubing to the u-joints.......

They do it on ag equipment, mining equipment, industrial machines, even seen it done on some trucks for single point or even automated lube. If installed correctly it last just fine. The better systems have sections with pistons that are sized for the point, and will even alert you if a lube point is blocked.

 

[Freeborn John]

Regarding Japan let’s not rewrite history.

They made some of the finest mass produce products in the world until the end of World War II. Unfortunately, it was most all military related.

Mitsubishi zero? The allies had to literally go back to the drawing board to counter it.

Check out videos on the Japanese combat boot, it’s literally a mass produce leather work of art

All of the post war “occupied, Japan” stuff, painted figurines, cheap screwdrivers in chintzy tin toys was about all they could produce because their industries were completely destroyed and all rebuilding efforts controlled by the allies

When they got the greenlight, Sony put out the first inexpensive portable transistor radio that well built and sold like crazy

They recovered back to the way, Japan always Built stuff

In the 90's the UK got a lot of used motorcycles from Japan, unofficial imports of models that only their home market got, they usually arrived bristling with aftermarket parts from outfits we'd never heard of like Beet and Over and the quality was always superb, the Japanese consumer must demand the best.
I don't get that feeling about Chinese goods, in China 'adequate' seems good enough.

 

[Pinemarten]

^. That VW Pull Starter may have actually worked. I remember using a 1/2" ratchet with a deep socket to crank over a VW (Model T style) with a tired battery. We got out of the woods, but the pull starter might have worked better.

 

[four.cycle]

^ this is what you find when you turn the barrel upside-down.

 

[micromind]

And then there might be the idiot trying to install the fittings and tubing to the u-joints.......

Lol.....that's just too funny.....

 

[Snaparxon]

^ this is what you find when you turn the barrel upside-down.

Those sets work well to loosen hand tight fasteners.

I remember the sockets worked well with my wrist-rocket sling shot too.

 

[micromind]

But even the junk tools have purpose for me: they're great for cutting, hacking and welding up a special tool when you need one. It may only last that one job, but that's all I need it to. Then throw it away if it gets roached on the single job and not have to feel bad about cutting up a good socket or wrench.

So yeah, junk tools have their place in my shop, just not as "go to" stuff for regular jobs.

Same here.

For example, in the electrical world, there are setscrew wire lugs that have a 1/2" Allen. Since no one that I know of makes a 3/8" drive 1/2" Allen socket, I took a 2" piece of 1/2" Allen wrench and welded it into a cheap 1/2" socket. 40 years later, I still have it. I also still have what's left of the Allen wrench, it works well in tight places.

 

[Bryanbdp]

I bought a couple 3/8 Craftsman socket sets for my truck at Ace hardware recently. Both rachets locked up after a few minutes of light use. Too bad. Craftsman served me well most of my life. Afraid to buy it now.

 

[Firebrick43]

I bought a couple 3/8 Craftsman socket sets for my truck at Ace hardware recently. Both rachets locked up after a few minutes of light use. Too bad. Craftsman served me well most of my life. Afraid to buy it now.

Even the raised panel USA pear head ratchets were ****. Busted my knuckles with them so much, that one comes into my possession it goes in the trash.

 

[lardy1]

 

[cherrybomb]

There use to be another company competing with J.C.Whitney back in the day in Chicago,a Polish sounding name,help me please,someone! Wor chosky,

 

[Nutria]

>>There use to be another company competing with J.C.Whitney back in the day in Chicago,a Polish sounding name,help me please,someone! Wor chosky,

It was apparently "Warshawsky's." See oni888's post on previous page.

 

[Ricky Joe]

I learned one of life's great tool lessons the day my uncle caught me with the JC Witless catalog as he called it. At twelve I think ******* would have shocked him less. The lesson do not buy anything that if it fails will hurt you. These would be from cheap sources usually. He felt JC Witless was one of the them.

His message has held through unknown stuff made in the USA by what looked like a toy company, the move to Japan before its optical industry showed them how to manufacture and get a reputation, then on to Korea, Taiwan, China, and now India. There will always be someone trying to make money as the bottom dollar seller and looking for the next cheap place to make something. It was buyer beware and if they show up in equipment we buy we no longer use them even in the equipment tool boxes.

It is also a generational thing as most people cannot step into the thought process of another person. It was **** once it will always be ****. For a company do not try to live on a reputation unless you can maintain it. If you can you understand why for some Craftsman made the best balance of cost and quality tools, that for some like us tools as a necessity cost us big when they break due to the delay of return to service of what we are fixing so we think hard of the compromises of the cost the tools was made to sell at. You see today vs what the generational thought is.

If you don’t have enough sense to have duplicates and triplicates, you deserve the inconvenience of a delay in the repair.

 

[ZRX61]

I'll add Sunex angle wrenches to this thread. You wouldn't believe the dents, scratches, chemical marks & other blemishes they plated over. Absolute garbage that Harbor Freight would be embarrassed to sell.
Worse than the worse Made in India junk.
They're going back to Amazon on Monday & I'll get the Capri versions instead.

 

[MarkH]

If you don’t have enough sense to have duplicates and triplicates, you deserve the inconvenience of a delay in the repair.

One of the great things about this forum is we learn about other peoples industries and how they work. They are usually very different than your own. This has allowed many of to share and understand the difficulties each of us have in our industries. Many as their working lives have changed have found things they can adapt to their changing work live.

So now for my working situation. In our area the bucolic farm is no more. It is a big business and if we are working within sight of our buildings and main shops that is rare. Normally we are up to 100 miles away from one of the shops where we have duplicate and tripicates of everything including some machine specific tools that the dealers do not have or have duplicates for. Working in that type of shop is more what most people do.

In our case our off site is our daily field breakdown model. Only exceptional repairs are brought to the shops. To support it we use service trucks. We use industrial quality tools on them. Most of the time a service truck travels with a group of tractors or combines. So the repair may not be done by our full time mechanical crews based out of the shops. A group of highly skilled operators does most of the running repairs. Since the amount of tools we can carry on the service trucks is limited. They also carry oils, greases, air compressors, generators, battery charging equipment, small 100 gallon fuel distribution tanks, common parts, and shop items. So we have duplicates of common items since frequently we need to be using them on two machines at once in routine morning maintenance. We do not have room for duplicates of less common items or very bulky items. They are built on 2 ton trucks not pickups.

We live in a situation where given the fickleness of weather a machine being down or off line can easily cost 2000 an hour or more. A two hour repair that turned into a 5 hour one since a trip to town or one of the shops was required adds quickly. The kids who occasionally try to slip something cheaper into a truck get shocked the old man can still pitch it multiple tens of yards when it breaks and an extended trip is required. You do not want to record what I said when I do that.

Someone will always make cheap pot metal **** tools made in ever changing countries. Someone will always buy them looking for Snap On for a dollar. Some since that is all they can afford. We do not except for times when the kids get something cheaper, we have learned the sad fact is each generation has to learn this on its own. At times the old man has to allow them to make mistakes where we can afford it for them to learn so they do not have to learn on the very pricy times.

So that is my world. How does it compare to yours? We each live in different ones.

For everyone else out there working in this field one way or another. We farm or support those who do, you eat. Great job guys.

 

[oni888]

>>There use to be another company competing with J.C.Whitney back in the day in Chicago,a Polish sounding name,help me please,someone! Wor chosky,

It was apparently "Warshawsky's." See oni888's post on previous page.

its the same company.

 

[2mJps]

When i was in school i worked Saturdays at a place they sold buffalo tools for a while . I got some back then . At the end of the day when i was getting payed i would buy try to buy some . The owner ether gave them to me or sold them at cost. Every thing was junk but the wrenches did last ok for what they were . Luckily there was a Sears mail order store in the next town . We would get a sell flyer in the mail with tools on sale i would call place a order and pick it up a week later. The C M ratchets were not the best.