**** Tools

[Randy Kegg]

There has been a lot of discussion on this forum about the relative quality of tools. Chinese; Japanese; American. We all know that Chinese tools are not as nice as top-tier brands like Snap-on.
But, how many of you remember what cheap tools were like back in the 1960's and '70's? I remember buying a socket set and ratchet from J.C. Whitney in Chicago. I used to buy a lot of car parts from them.
So, this socket set was really inexpensive. I don't remember where it was made or exactly how much (maybe $6.00 in 1970), but I had to buy it. (I was a poor high school kid.) When it came in the mail, I took a look. The sockets looked like they were made from some kind of pot metal. I tried them out on my car, and very quickly rounded out the insides of the sockets. The metal was much softer than the metal of the fastener. Needless to say, I threw them out and learned a lesson.
My point here is that the quality from a place like Harbor Freight is light years ahead of this set from Whitney. So, things could be worse!
HF sells pretty good stuff for the money. My only alternative back in the day was to go to Montgomery Wards or Sears. Their tools were good, but a lot more money. It is nice that we have a low priced alternative these days that actually will work.
Not everything was better back in the old days..........

 

[Cope]

Back in the day many grocery and convenience stores had a table of Globemaster tools. They were the bottom of the barrel ****, but I still have a tack hammer I bought as a 12 or 13 year old. Most of it sold for $1.00.

 

[jubilee]

For what it's worth, $6 in 1970 = $38 today. That will buy you today a 37 piece, 3/8 and 1/2" drive, metric and sae HF impact socket set and you'll have $10-$13 left over depending on tax.

 

[ynned]

I owned a 1968 Triumph bike. The twin cylinders (jugs) were held to the cases by 12 point 1/4" Whitworth nuts. Of course, even back then, Whitworth size tools were hard to find, and I couldn't find a wrench for love nor money until I stumbled onto an El Cheapo import 1/2" that was just sloppy enough oversize to fit snuggly on the Whitworth nuts. That wrench occupied a special place in my toolbox until I sold the bike.

 

[Gmonkee]

When the Asain countries were toolimg up for their own growth in the years after the war they didn't use lead alloy garbage to do it.

Obviously they were capable of making much better than what WE CHOSE TO IMPORT to do it.
Even if it was basic older design stuff it was solid. It had to be.

Our own production had made drastic changes those years and some ideas changed as cars evolved with tool designs.

True the US was ahead of the game a bit after the war but as our tooling aged into the 1970s they were installing the latest and getting up to par fast.

Now on a even playing field our tools are just like theirs for a large part because we shared what works best and can be produced economically.

The epoch of unusable **** is mostly done with because better is almost equally inexpensive.

I collect Oxwall tools for fun. Pure unadulterated **** from a past time that has mostly lost its purpose. Few work on old radio, tube tv or pointed car ignitions now.
But that stuff got more than one weekend warrior up to speed to maintain his stuff back then.

 

[dwasifar]

I do remember the **** socket sets that you'd get at KMart or the gas station. Typically they'd have roundhead ratchets, thin metal cases with a blowmold insert, and the little gold oval Made in Taiwan sticker somewhere on them. Back then Taiwan was the bottom of the barrel. They wouldn't last long; it was easy to torque them to pieces. As I recall, they looked like this:

 

[CoogarXR]

I also was young and broke when I got my first pot-metal tools. I broke and bent so many of them. At least it gave me an appreciation for good tools when I finally got some...

I have a box of old junk sockets and screwdrivers that I keep in a poly bin under my workbench. I use the sockets for stand-offs, spacers, or whatever when I am building stuff. They work good for that. I keep the junk screwdrivers for whenever I need to abuse one or grind one down or something.

 

[cptn_zippy]

I do remember the **** socket sets that you'd get at KMart or the gas station. Typically they'd have roundhead ratchets, thin metal cases with a blowmold insert, and the little gold oval Made in Taiwan sticker somewhere on them. Back then Taiwan was the bottom of the barrel. They wouldn't last long; it was easy to torque them to pieces. As I recall, they looked like this:

What my dad bought ^

Still has it, minus a few sockets. I credit that set with making me think there had to be a better way.

J

 

[cherrybomb]

No matter when,we've probably all had or used **** tools,what it did for me was made me aware of what was out there.It raised the bar,I now read and study before I buy.If I were in a shop,I would always ask questions to the guys,you know pick there brains on what works or doesn't. This site reinforces my choices I have made.Tools have come a long way and there is still a lot of bang for your buck,choose wisely,don't abuse and they will last a lifetime,and you will develop a sense of pride in ownership.

 

[keen]

we've got a complete set of that - without the sleeve - that's my wife's toolkit that she used around the house before she met my tool collection. (these days she's got a bag or two filled with kobalt mostly)

 

[zcbauer89]

I do remember the **** socket sets that you'd get at KMart or the gas station. Typically they'd have roundhead ratchets, thin metal cases with a blowmold insert, and the little gold oval Made in Taiwan sticker somewhere on them. Back then Taiwan was the bottom of the barrel. They wouldn't last long; it was easy to torque them to pieces. As I recall, they looked like this:

My grandfather had a few sets like that. I remember the chrome peeling in sheets.

 

[ssdave]

Nationalism and USA jobs support aside, I think a lot of the reluctance of many of us to use foreign tools comes from experience with sets like those above. We tried them because they were cheap, they failed, we invested in better stuff, it worked, so we don't buy cheap imports now.

Maybe the people buying better imports today won't have that experience, I see a lot of people on here recommending cheap imports, and giving good reviews. Or, maybe different people just have different standards for what they think is acceptable. I know people that have used $5 socket sets their entire life without complaint.

I bought one of those socket sets when I was a teenager. It seemed an economical alternative to Sears Craftsman; because of my Dad I considered those Craftsman tools to be the pinacle of quality. The ratchet failed, and the sockets rounded out, and in general made Craftsman look excellent. I also tried some wrenches made in India, with similar experience. I then bought Craftsman ratchets and sockets, and some used quality tools, and found that Proto made Craftsman seem like cheap junk in comparison, just like the cheap socket set had made Craftsman look good. So, I switched over to Proto, and eventually Snap-on as I could afford to. I know that the last cheap tools I bought were occasional purchases at HF about 5 years ago, and purchases of Craftsman stuff about 15 years ago. Experiences with both those cheap tool sources were miserable, and reinforced the 1970's and 1980's cheap Taiwan experiences that I'd had. In trying to save a few dollars, I had just created the need to buy better stuff in addition to the cheap stuff. Not a very economical way to go for me, unfortunately.

I don't have a need to price shop for tools now, as I have most everything I ever could need, and can afford to buy high quality for those that I don't. So, I won't be experimenting with cheap import tools. It works for me to just buy Snap-on, Proto, SK, and occasionally if it's my only option Carlisle at NAPA.

It will take entire generations growing up with acceptable quality import tools before the anti-import tool bias goes away. Hopefully the imports will improve in quality enough to generate that confidence.

 

[jakemac]

I see partial sets like that at yard and estate sales all the time. I rarely ever see the original ratchet. Usually it was replaced by a Craftman or SK.

 

[jd_1138]

My uncle was a big JC Whitney fan. His various new Chevrolets were filled with their cupholders, curb feelers, insurance/registration paper holders, etc..

 

[mikeceli]

I remember when "Help Wanted" adds for mechanic's, in the newspaper, would sometimes state "Must have own SNAP ON tools".

 

[JohnDeere1]

I got sub brands that were the generic like Hornet by Williams and Challenger by Proto and they were cheap back in the day even Par X by Snap on and all are top quality compared to the **** today, I'd go as far and say light years above HF. You get what you pay for I'd much rather have a pieced together all USA tool set than anything HF sells.
I'm not downing HF they are not bad for the money really but there is cheaper and better options that can be found in dollar bins.

 

[zendriver]

Manufacturing in China 40 years ago, might as well have been 400, but they are a game changer now , whether we can admit it or not.

I see tools at Big Lots, and that I would rate "not too bad".



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jd_1138]

Manufacturing in China 40 years ago, might as well have been 400, but they are a game changer now , whether we can admit it or not.

I see tools at Big Lots, and that I would rate "not too bad".



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ever see the tools at a Dollar Tree? Wowzers. The adjustable wrench was made in India. Total pot metal and the finishing was so bad that you'd slice your hands open on them.

Other day at K-Mart, I perused the tool section. It's funny how they have those little plastic bags of cheap no name wrenches hanging there. I think they're $10 or so. It's for people who don't want to pay a whopping $20 for the Craftsman set of wrenches. But that $10 difference may be a big deal to the poor souls living paycheck to paycheck.

Ollie's Bargain Store has some pretty decent tools. They have some Great Neck screwdrivers (Made in USA I think) for 50 cents each or they were 3 for a buck, can't remember. But they had the acetate handles and were blue/clear and red/clear.

 

[wvrailroader]

I had a socket set I bought from Big Lots when I was in college. I carried it in the toolbox in my truck. The sockets were chrome plated paper mache that would split with almost no torque applied. Someone broke into the toolbox one night and stole that set and a few other crappy tools. I still laugh when I think about that thief, who in the dark, probably thought he had struck gold. I hope the ******* peeled all the skin off his knuckles trying to use those sorry *** sockets.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

 

[Pitalplace]

My dad bought the very cheap stuff for tractor tool boxes in the 60's and 70's. And yes the cheap stuff today is way better. I was lucky as my first 3/8 and 1/2 drive sets came from the Co-op farm stations and was the original Husky's. I still have them today and have added to the sets through eBay.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

There has been a lot of discussion on this forum about the relative quality of tools. Chinese; Japanese; American. We all know that Chinese tools are not as nice as top-tier brands like Snap-on.
But, how many of you remember what cheap tools were like back in the 1960's and '70's? I remember buying a socket set and ratchet from J.C. Whitney in Chicago. I used to buy a lot of car parts from them.
So, this socket set was really inexpensive. I don't remember where it was made or exactly how much (maybe $6.00 in 1970), but I had to buy it. (I was a poor high school kid.) When it came in the mail, I took a look. The sockets looked like they were made from some kind of pot metal. I tried them out on my car, and very quickly rounded out the insides of the sockets. The metal was much softer than the metal of the fastener. Needless to say, I threw them out and learned a lesson.
My point here is that the quality from a place like Harbor Freight is light years ahead of this set from Whitney. So, things could be worse!
HF sells pretty good stuff for the money. My only alternative back in the day was to go to Montgomery Wards or Sears. Their tools were good, but a lot more money. It is nice that we have a low priced alternative these days that actually will work.
Not everything was better back in the old days..........

I think you are missing one huge factor.
Some of HF stuff is fair-good, or so big and crude it probably won't break.
But the consistency is not there, and some of the stuff is still no good out of the box. Tried the sandpaper? 30 seconds in, you are looking at a lightly scratched part with a pile of sand on it, while holding a dirty sheet of paper.
Now try the 3M stuff that isn't US made, or much more expensive at Home Depot.
Sure you can get a 1/2" drive set for cheap, and sometimes the sockets are pretty damn good, but you will still have to spend another $15-20 to get a ratchet that doesn't feel broken, just like you would have in 1988
I have a 1 step up metric set of laser etched sockets. fit is good, the toughness is there, they have all lasted long enough that the laser etch is worn off all but 2 or 3 of them. does that make them good?

To make it worse, if you have one of the things which is good, when you pick up another one, it may not be the same. Someone gave me a 1/2 deep impact set, and I broke 3 sockets in a row without successfully removing a bolt, and my impact was only good to 250 ft/lb on its best days. I've seen other people use that set for years.

on the other hand, my orange central floor jack dates back to abut 1994, gets left outside, and has never need any service or maintainence.

 

[RandyRanderson]

My first 4 vehicles were older Chevrolets. A good cross section of SAE Craftsman got me through every repair that popped up for years. Then wife 1.0 bought a used GEO. I thought I wouldn't need metric for anything else (boy was I wrong) so I bought cheap Chinese stuff from Wal-Mart. Wrench set in a bag for $6. Still have a few left that didn't spread or bend.

 

[Randy Kegg]

I think you are missing one huge factor.
Some of HF stuff is fair-good, or so big and crude it probably won't break.
But the consistency is not there, and some of the stuff is still no good out of the box. Tried the sandpaper? 30 seconds in, you are looking at a lightly scratched part with a pile of sand on it, while holding a dirty sheet of paper.
Now try the 3M stuff that isn't US made, or much more expensive at Home Depot.
Sure you can get a 1/2" drive set for cheap, and sometimes the sockets are pretty damn good, but you will still have to spend another $15-20 to get a ratchet that doesn't feel broken, just like you would have in 1988
I have a 1 step up metric set of laser etched sockets. fit is good, the toughness is there, they have all lasted long enough that the laser etch is worn off all but 2 or 3 of them. does that make them good?

To make it worse, if you have one of the things which is good, when you pick up another one, it may not be the same. Someone gave me a 1/2 deep impact set, and I broke 3 sockets in a row without successfully removing a bolt, and my impact was only good to 250 ft/lb on its best days. I've seen other people use that set for years.

on the other hand, my orange central floor jack dates back to abut 1994, gets left outside, and has never need any service or maintainence.

I have one of those orange central jacks, and it is about the same vintage as yours. I use it all the time and it is bulletproof. It even came with a replacement seal kit that I have never had to use. Those jacks were a bargain!

 

[WildwoodChuck]

1986 I was 10 I bought a set of screw drivers from Dollar General in Tennessee while visiting family. They were in this little case with a big handle that slipped over them. I broke one of the handles and twisted the blade on a slotted. To this day I don't like cheap tools, jolly ranchers (reminds me of them handles) or Dollar General.

 

[dogdog]

In my book, channel lock... That universal socket sets.... probably never buy another set of channel lock again.....

yea life time warranty my auss.

 

[bwringer]

I remember the gawdawful crappy tools I used to get from Kmart when I was in college, poor, and the Kmart was within walking distance.

It took me 20 years to just start throwing the damn things out when I found them in a tool box or drawer.

If you go into any Walmart and look at the cheap Chinese "Stanley" branded stuff in the back, it's light-years beyond the cheese you used to get in discount stores. Not the greatest, but it would actually be usable if you needed it.

And the stuff from Taiwan these days is generally excellent for the money.

However, India is starting to fill in for China when it comes to churning out crappy cheap tools. There's always a little room at the bottom, I guess...

 

[Davefr]

I remember that ****. Dad wasn't into tools and was also super frugal. He'd only buy that cheap no name ****. Sockets wouldn't even fit the fastener!! It was hell as a kid trying to use that ****. (I was hands on and he wasn't)

Then mom bought dad a real CM mechanics set for Xmas. (I think she did it more for me then him). That was a godsend!! Quality tools that were really useable. No more trying to use slip joint pliers and open end wrenches for everything.

I see tons of those little rusty tin socket sets at g-sales and puke just about every time I spot them.

 

[derosa]

I do remember the **** socket sets that you'd get at KMart or the gas station. Typically they'd have roundhead ratchets, thin metal cases with a blowmold insert, and the little gold oval Made in Taiwan sticker somewhere on them. Back then Taiwan was the bottom of the barrel. They wouldn't last long; it was easy to torque them to pieces. As I recall, they looked like this:

I have this set sitting in my barn, tools had a habit of disappearing into my FILs rv while he was staying with us so I handed him these, found them in the barn. Most of the set is still there and one of the ratchets has a nice gentle curve to the handle which I think speaks more to how lousy the metal is rather then how strong the internals are.

 

[DFB]

Oh gawd I remember them too the cheap blue case and sockets would round out so easy the metal was so soft. I think they were like $6-8 dollars at the local hardware store and /or found in the tool section of some early 70's department stores. There is still some of that **** around but honestly who would even buy it .

My old riding partner's father always bought those cheap sets and when his kid and me got our first Harleys I bought full set of Craftsman I asked why buy that junk his logic was it was cheap enough to keep replacing them


Like the OP post said most of the cheaper import options actually have some value to them nowdays. Even hand tools like pliers or nutdrivers. Cheap screwdrivers still **** pretty much though IMO and some places actually have better stuff than HF offers too.

I have had recent experiences with a few of the current HF socket/ratchet sets and they were generally allright...even the cheap $10 set worked ok for the most part in a short but demanding test the socket didn't strip or the ratchet break but had to take one ratchet apart and lube it some so it would turn direction easier


HF still has a lowball set for like $6 or less in a cheap plastic box clear cover...I'm totally afraid of that one!

Just as an FYI someone gave me few loose cheap sockets small sizes 5/16 3/8 7/16 1/2 and I put one on an adapter in cordless hex shank impact driver the socket twisted right up I needed a pair of pliers to pull it back off

 

[Empty Pockets]

My father used to preach "QUALITY". When I got my first real job, I purchased 3 sets of Wright tools. Still have all of them, while many of the Craftsman and imports have gone in the scrap bin

 

[dwasifar]

HF still has a lowball set for like $6 or less in a cheap plastic box clear cover...I'm totally afraid of that one!

This one?

 

[Ohmthis]

In my book, channel lock... That universal socket sets.... probably never buy another set of channel lock again.....

yea life time warranty my auss.

Can you explain better??? I've never tried to warranty any channel lock pliers, ecause I wore them out before they could break. A warranty isn't to take them back and get a new set when they have worn.

My late step dad had those socket sets and ****** ratchets. What killed me was he was a tool maker and had thousands of quality tools for work, but always bought the worst **** for home. Even as young kid I hated those ratchets.

 

[Olafur]

But, how many of you remember what cheap tools were like back in the 1960's and '70's?

Yes. The price turned out to be no joke. The actual joke was on whomever bought that **** and tried to use it.

1/2" drive tools you could bend between your hands, sockets made of chewing gum.

Incredible that somewhere someone did take the time and effort to make this junk and so forth.. WHY?

The cheap stuff today (at least over here) is like Snap On in comparison.

 

[Socket Pounder]

When I was a young man, I could buy Japanese made socket or wrench sets for a couple dollars at Jone's Boys, the equivalent of HF back then (70's). And they were junk. Wrenches would spread on anything remotely stuck. Sockets would turn into circles. America made some junk back then too but it all went into the landfill and no one remembers.

 

[montanafordman]

I do remember the **** socket sets that you'd get at KMart or the gas station. Typically they'd have roundhead ratchets, thin metal cases with a blowmold insert, and the little gold oval Made in Taiwan sticker somewhere on them. Back then Taiwan was the bottom of the barrel. They wouldn't last long; it was easy to torque them to pieces. As I recall, they looked like this:

Haha my dad has this exact same set, which I used a fair amount when I was growing up. I added a few powerbuilt tools from Checker auto parts (now oreilly) back in the day which were more recent Taiwan but still much better quality. He also had some fair quality indestro wrenches, and an indestro 3/8 socket set. I remember changing spark plugs, a heater core, radiator hose /thermostat and a fuel pump with that cheap set. I didn't know any better and its what we had. I do recall at least one or two of the metric sockets (probably 6 and 8mm) were rounded out on who knows what. Cheaper quality metal for sure. The modern HF equivalent is miles better than this one.

 

[WittHay]

My dad bought the very cheap stuff for tractor tool boxes in the 60's and 70's. And yes the cheap stuff today is way better. I was lucky as my first 3/8 and 1/2 drive sets came from the Co-op farm stations and was the original Husky's. I still have them today and have added to the sets through eBay.

My dad bought the imported Westward and Jet tools from Acklands-Grainger and industrial type parts places in the 80's. These tools weren't the greatest and wouldn't last too long . Pliers would break and ratchets gettting stripped and sockets and wrenches that were way to thick for their size and would still bend or get worn easy. If these tools were bad i can just imagine the dollar store tools of the era

 

[DFB]

This one?

Yeppers that the one!


This other cheap set can be had for only $8.00 with a 20% off coupon...1/2" drive!

Packaging claims a lifetime warranty too

 

[shop guy]

This thread is too funny. I've been dumb enough to buy cheap ratcheting screw driver from Walmart a long time ago, thinking "well it's not the best but it can be easily replaced so who needs a warranty?"

It wore out the first time using it, technically can't call it a "tool" at that point.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

I owned a 1968 Triumph bike. The twin cylinders (jugs) were held to the cases by 12 point 1/4" Whitworth nuts. Of course, even back then, Whitworth size tools were hard to find, and I couldn't find a wrench for love nor money until I stumbled onto an El Cheapo import 1/2" that was just sloppy enough oversize to fit snuggly on the Whitworth nuts. That wrench occupied a special place in my toolbox until I sold the bike.

17/32" ? I had a Britbike and my socket came from a KMart set. Alot of those low end socket sets had some of the old, mostly pre-WW2, X/32" sizes.

I think Craftsman had those sizes, too. Although they were probably catalog only orders by the 1960s.

 

[dogdog]

Can you explain better??? I've never tried to warranty any channel lock pliers, ecause I wore them out before they could break. A warranty isn't to take them back and get a new set when they have worn.

My late step dad had those socket sets and ****** ratchets. What killed me was he was a tool maker and had thousands of quality tools for work, but always bought the worst **** for home. Even as young kid I hated those ratchets.

used it twice on light duty stuff like a house hold bolt.... and it broke. basically to replace the plastic selector, I have to send in the whole ratchet. which shipping cost more than the ratchet......anyway bad taste of warranty experience for a company that boasting how good their tools are. Flock it, I can work with the alternatives.... it's not the tool that do the job. it's the person using the tool.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=291962&highlight=Channel+lock