Top tier mini split manufacturers?

[gatorgrabber]

I've been putting this off but it's time to make a decision regarding the mini splits going into my remodel. I'm not going to ask the inane, "Who's best?" question but I am curious which mfgs to take a look most closely at.

To those who work with HVAC systems all the time, which mfgs would you consider using in your home? As a rule, I try to buy equipment that averages out well across the board. I've been looking at Mitsubishi, Daikin, LG and Fujitsu most closely, I just ran across Bosch and I'm reading up on those, too.

Any words of wisdom from the wizards? Thanks!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Mitsubishi, Fujitsu

 

[gatorgrabber]

Wow, an answer from an actual wizard! Thanks for the advice.

 

[Gummi Bear]

I’m an electrician, and it seems that Mitsubishi is the standard others try to emulate when it comes to mini split systems.

They’re also quite a bit more expensive. Be prepared for that.

You can do the wall mount, or ceiling cassette type of indoor units. I’ve seen both be very effective.

The others you mentioned are also good. I’ve installed a couple of Daikin units at my brothers house, and my buddy’s shop. They’ve both been flawless for the 2-3 years since installing.



I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...

Henry David Thoreau

 

[yeldogt]

I've been putting this off but it's time to make a decision regarding the mini splits going into my remodel. I'm not going to ask the inane, "Who's best?" question but I am curious which mfgs to take a look most closely at.

To those who work with HVAC systems all the time, which mfgs would you consider using in your home? As a rule, I try to buy equipment that averages out well across the board. I've been looking at Mitsubishi, Daikin, LG and Fujitsu most closely, I just ran across Bosch and I'm reading up on those, too.

Any words of wisdom from the wizards? Thanks!

What is this for ?

If for your house and If you paying for the install --- Mitsubishi and use a good installer.

If DIY and for a shop ........... less critical as the cost to replace should it fail and the operational needs are less critical.

Have used them all .... installed in my houses LG/ Fujitsu/ Mitsubishi. Mitsubishi work the best --especially the wall w/ eye

 

[gatorgrabber]

Actually, I'm installing separate units for both my home and my shop but I'll go with the same mfg for both (when I choose one). I'm still looking at the actual style of indoor units I'll go with, along with how I'm going to zone things. I'm huge on the KISS principle along with making equipment easy to maintain in the future. Lots of thinking still to do! Thanks for the advice!

 

[SALIV8]

I was more focused on manufacturers warranty and affordability. These things arent gonna last forever and will need replacing.

Check your local rebates available for certain levels of seer/hspf. I got back about $800 for both of my systems.

 

[rlitman]

...Have used them all .... installed in my houses LG/ Fujitsu/ Mitsubishi. Mitsubishi work the best --especially the wall w/ eye

I'm a little surprised to hear that. I have a Fujitsu, and it's pretty good, and I've had a Mitsubishi, and it was pretty good. I also have a dual head LG, and they're pretty good (though they have their idiosyncrasies; particularly their buggy wifi software). But every installer I talk to raves about Daikin above everything else.

 

[Jim greengo]

I'd say there's only so many actual manufacturers in the business,lots of rebranded stuff out there.
Biggest thing is to find a brand you can get parts for and make sure iys installed right.

 

[Balvar24]

Samsung

Daikin

 

[justinjoyal]

I would not touch LG.

Mitsubishi and Fujitsu have a pretty good track record, but they are expensive.

I've been selling/installing GREE for 7-8 years and that's what I would use if I had to install a unit at home.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Mitsubishi, Fujitsu

X2, but not in any particular order unless you want a low temp heat pump, then it's a Mitsu H2i for me.

Tommy

 

[gatorgrabber]

I'm in N Florida, so the need for high heating isn't much of an issue here. It's good to see the same mfgs I've been looking at being suggested by you folks.

 

[yeldogt]

The internal control system just works better on the Mitsubishi ... there is no touching the Mitsubishi wall unit with the eye. Twin outlets with independent control. It's slick and really works. The new redesigned cassette from Mitsubishi has some version of it as well. Have only used the older ceiling units (with good results).

Don't love internet control from Mitsubishi ...

My new house has 3 Mitsubishi units going in. Walls w/ eye.. I used Fujitsu low temps for a Barn conversion as the heads fit the spaces better (not as wide but deeper). I used some of the LG art-cools in another projects. Years ago --- thought they would be less visible. All single setups. As was my first Mitsubishi hyper --- it was a floor mount unit.

Have two 3 head Mitsubishi system in homes I own now.

There are a lot of bad installs. Not into seeing the lines all over the exterior is important to me.

LG got a bad rep around 10+ years ago -- they had a lot of head failures and the customer services and warranty address from the company was very bad. They never really recovered. Fujitsu was an early leader in the multi head area. Remember --- Sanyo owned the market 20 years ago and lost the whole thing. Who hears of them today

I always price things out -- yes the Mitsubishi comes in a bit above. When I'm building -- I can't DIY .... I have to have it done. So the extra 10% or so is worth it to me. When I start to rebuild the outbuilding on my new projects property -- I'm not sure what I will use. I still have an old LG art-cool in storage -- may just install that. My installers told me they would connect the lines ... so maybe I will get another basic unit and have them do both. My cars don't care about the air blowing on them

I wall mounted my first multi head hyper unit w/ 30k compressor -- it's on a brick building and wall mounting it up high was a way to hide it and to also make the lines shorter. The one line goes directly into my new addition sun room and the other two have a short hop up into the attic and over to get to the second floor of my cape at the beach .... two cassettes. I can hear the compressor ... so that's not something I would want to do again unless no other solution. The unit is plus 5 years old and I have had no issues -- Have had no issues with any of them.

One thing to think about ... anybody not used to the mini type units are always impressed with them. If you are coming from window units .... it's like you died and went to heaven. It's the same with the newest split type AC/HP -- my Carrier units are silent. You have to walk up to them to see if they are running .... the days of placement concern near a bedroom are no more. Knowing what can be ............I was pissed when I heard the Mitsubishi unit running on the wall. NO one else hears it .. I can hear it. It's like hearing the refrigerator ..

So -- expectations matter. The less expensive units work --and work well. There are countless rebranded units from China. My guess is the vast majority of the units running in the world are from China. The basic units make a bit more noise -- less control of the fan and angles of control. For most .. it's going to be minor.

For my projects getting the best is within reach -- so that's what I do. Daikin is huge - one of the biggest in the world. From all accounts .. very good. They price out in the same range as the other premium brands. When we went to get the units for my new build -- the labor was the same in the contract. The installers said ... w/o question .. Mitsubishi

 

[gatorgrabber]

Question about head placement 'aiming' in an area where people will either be working in one spot (my home office) or sleeping (master bedroom)...do you want to have the outflow from the head aimed in the direction of the people or directed elsewhere in the room? I'm used to central A/C, so this might not be an issue with mini splits.

 

[yeldogt]

Question about head placement 'aiming' in an area where people will either be working in one spot (my home office) or sleeping (master bedroom)...do you want to have the outflow from the head aimed in the direction of the people or directed elsewhere in the room? I'm used to central A/C, so this might not be an issue with mini splits.

This is where the Mitsubishi w/ eye shines ..... you can program it to find you .. or avoid you. The wide nature of the head unit combines with the duel outlet control eliminates the air blowing ... unless you want it.

I have a one story addition w/ lots of glass (almost all) -- use the room often. It's all open glass w/ no widow covering -- so on hot sunny days I sometimes have the unit set to find me. This allows the surrounding space to be slightly warmer. It's amazing how well it works .. vs blasting the whole room with cold air. Now -- I can do that as well ... and the duel vents allow for twin upward flow.

With most of the basic units they are just going to flow forward with some back and forth. With any unit after they get close to temp set point they go to lower or lowest setting.

I find that central placement or off either direction by about 1/3 is still OK -- blowing towards the longest wall. With a bedroom it's all about placement -- in most hotel room they place them above the bed -- or off to one side on the same wall so the unit can blow towards the far wall. You can also do them left right walls at the foot of the bed. In big rooms they can go facing the bed ... I have been in hotel rooms with every possible placement. It's all a question of the -- low setting. The best units control at low settings and move the air away.

With my one story addition -- about 18 x 24 ... it has a cathedral ceiling. So the unit is placed on what used to be the side of the house ...blowing into the new room ... about 9' above the floor. So you can not see the unit until you enter the room and look up and back.

 

[gatorgrabber]

Yeldogt, that's very useful info, thanks! It's the 3D i-see, correct? I'm still trying to determine their different models for here in the US but this looks interesting. Are the head units with all the bells and whistles good to go? Sometimes the extra stuff can cause issues if not properly implemented.

 

[ZRX61]

Remember --- Sanyo owned the market 20 years ago and lost the whole thing. Who hears of them today

They pretty much got wiped out by a quake on '04 & are now a subsidiary of Panasonic. Panasonic chose not to continue with the Sanyo brand name.

 

[vavet]

I’m surprised to see Mr Cool not mentioned. This is a dangerous question, but I’ll ask it anyway. What am I missing? I have an 18k Mr Cool in my garage. I’m thrilled with it. What would one of these other brands do better? If it’s merely a matter of features or sound level, then that is of no concern to me for a shop setting. I just love having a climate controlled garage.

 

[jjrbus]

Fujitsu and Misubishi are #1 depending on who you ask. I did a DIY install and did tons of due diligence on the net. There are lots of articles and videos, some good,
some by people who do not have a clue!

What I noticed after some time the people who seemed to be professional and competent were working on Mitsubishi, Fujitsu or Daikin. Daikin has also made a huge investment in the US. So suspect they will not be pumping out off brand junk. 2 years with the Daikins and happy with them in FL.

My opinion and worth what you are paying for it.

 

[gatorgrabber]

jjrbus, when you sized your Daikins, did you make any adjustment for the high humidity? I've seen a few mention slightly under-sizing the system. No idea if that helps, just something I've seen a time or two.

 

[yeldogt]

I’m surprised to see Mr Cool not mentioned. This is a dangerous question, but I’ll ask it anyway. What am I missing? I have an 18k Mr Cool in my garage. I’m thrilled with it. What would one of these other brands do better? If it’s merely a matter of features or sound level, then that is of no concern to me for a shop setting. I just love having a climate controlled garage.

The OP is doing in his house as well

 

[yeldogt]

jjrbus, when you sized your Daikins, did you make any adjustment for the high humidity? I've seen a few mention slightly under-sizing the system. No idea if that helps, just something I've seen a time or two.

You will be sizing for AC -- should have no problem with removing humidity.


As to the other question --- yes the eye units. You can pick various heads with the same compressor

 

[rlitman]

jjrbus, when you sized your Daikins, did you make any adjustment for the high humidity? I've seen a few mention slightly under-sizing the system. No idea if that helps, just something I've seen a time or two.

You will be sizing for AC -- should have no problem with removing humidity...

Exactly. With mini-splits being variable speed, it doesn't make sense to under-size them. Just use the dry mode for it's intended purpose if you actually need it.

 

[gatorgrabber]

It's still a toss up between the wall units and the 4-way ceiling cassettes. I have lots of windows, along with 8' ceilings, so wall mounting locations are limited. The cassettes probably make more sense but I'm also looking at the floor and ducted units. Decisions, decisions...

 

[yeldogt]

It's still a toss up between the wall units and the 4-way ceiling cassettes. I have lots of windows, along with 8' ceilings, so wall mounting locations are limited. The cassettes probably make more sense but I'm also looking at the floor and ducted units. Decisions, decisions...

I had no choice but to use two cassettes back when I redid my extended cape --second floor of the original building -- two large bedrooms w/ shared bath. Cape style is basically a big dormer on the second floor w/ no area for a wall unit. The have worked very well. What you have to understand -- the wall units have the most "technology" built into the head. My cape has three windows along the dormer wall in each large bedroom .. placed the unit in front of the middle window about 4/5' feet out from the wall. I was originally going to use only three of the vents ... but using all 4 worked best. Note -- they are not small. I have the two connected to a multi head with the third wall head doing another sunroom ... not unlike what I talked of above. 3 12k heads on the 30k compressor.

Most of the other styles .... floor -- visible ceiling and the ducted often have 3 (some of the ducted 4) fixed speed blowers and modulate differently. This is what the new ceiling unit from Mitsubishi was designed to fix. The older ceiling cassette that I have is really a hold over from the commercial use ... as all the others are. Mine required a wall thermostat -- it modulates based on your setting vs being fully "auto". This has not proved to be much of an issue .... the area where they are is not used much ... so if I want to cool it quickly I need to place the units on high. I did a floor unit that worked the same way.

The new Mitsubishi ceiling unit is designed to fit within a typical ceiling (framing) w/o the modifications and hanging rods needed for the older style -- it also has the "brains" of the other units.

There are different ducted units -- some allow for more ductwork .. some need to be close in and out. The latter are the common type seen in a hotel room when they are buried in a false hallway ceiling.

One thing that must be done -- you must do a load on the rooms you are woking on and then do an overall load on the building. To get mini splits correct you want to match the correctly .. this is especially true with multi-head setups.

As you can see from above -- my 3 12k head units are running off of a 30k compressor. This is based on the Mitsubishi tables and the proper loads done on the building. Doing those 3 on a 36k compressor would have been a mistake and is what happens all too often. People not understanding often add up the heads and match the compressor .. wrong.

 

[gatorgrabber]

Here is the worksheet we generated for the house. I'm looking to break it into 2 zones; kitchen/living room and the bedrooms/hall/bathrooms. It logically breaks the house into 2 zones. I'm considering adding air transfer fans to both the guest BR and the office since I don't think it makes sense for those small rooms to have dedicated heads. Also, the doors are almost always open on those rooms.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1110228&stc=1&d=1615223064

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1110229&stc=1&d=1615223064

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1110230&stc=1&d=1615223064

 

[thammel]

I spent the bucks and bought good mitsubishi Mr Slim's. They have worked flawlessly for the 5 years they have been in.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'm huge on the KISS principle along with making equipment easy to maintain in the future.

Then I would skip the ceiling cassette ! If the drain line clogs or the pump quits, you are in a world of hurt.

The low wall mounts are good if you have the space.

 

[gatorgrabber]

There really isn't a good location in the front of the house (living room/kitchen) for a unit mounted high on the wall; I've got options in the bedroom area. There are tons of custom wiring, plumbing, cabinets, etc., so making a provision for the ceiling mount isn't the end of the world but I would like to avoid it. I'm shooting for the bare minimum number of holes I have in my ceiling. It truly amazes me just how perforated most homes are!

 

[gatorgrabber]

It just occurred to me that I might be ruling out a wall mounting location offhand. I have 16" of wall (solid concrete) over the windows; are there units that will work in this tight an area? I've seen multiple minimum overhead clearances spec'd but don't know any of this as gospel.

 

[meathooker]

Hvac contractor

Depending on spec’d equipment we’ve installed about all of them. If I had to do a mini split I’d probably go Daikin or Mitsubishi. I was turned off of Mitsubishi for a while BC we had a city multi unit not work on a project but we later found out the engineers sized it incorrectly. LG is very popular around here and I don’t hear much bad about it

 

[tab2]

Small/decent sized IT rooms in the commercial offices I have built (70-ish, maybe? I don't keep track) ALL get Mitsubishi wall hung. That is probably from 10 different engineering firms spec'ing them.

If they really want to spend money they get Liebert units, but those are much more advanced and are used in the big server rooms.

I put Mitsubishi's in my condo. It was between them and Fujitsu but the tech who was doing my start up liked Mitsubishi's more so that's what I put in.

 

[PJorgen]

New guy here. I just installed a Bryant Preferred series mini-split in my home. Made in China so probably made by the one of the companies that makes Mitsu or Fujitsu. Went with Bryant primarily because it has a 10-year warranty, most others are only 5 years.

I installed three zones, 9k, 12k and 24k BTUs with a 30k BTU outdoor unit. About $4300 for the equipment including the line sets and other hardware. Did the install myself with the help of an HVAC contractor friend.

It has similar capabilities as Mitsu's hyper-heat. 100% heating efficiency down to 5F and can still generate some heat down to -22F. I'm in northern Nevada and it never gets that cold here so I'm not worried.

We're pretty happy with it so far. One feature I like is that I can tell it to use the handheld remote to measure the room temp. I place the remote in the middle of the room so it doesn't have any hot or cold spots.

Only thing I don't like is that it's not really programable. It has a timer for on or off but it's a one-time only thing. So we have to turn it off before we go to bed and turn it on in the morning. First world problems I know.

 

[SALIV8]

It's still a toss up between the wall units and the 4-way ceiling cassettes. I have lots of windows, along with 8' ceilings, so wall mounting locations are limited. The cassettes probably make more sense but I'm also looking at the floor and ducted units. Decisions, decisions...

Casement windows or double hung?

If you have mostly window walls I’d look into the new Midea inverter window units.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I installed three zones, 9k, 12k and 24k BTUs with a 30k BTU outdoor unit.

One thing I have noticed about units that run multiple air handlers is that they have lower SEER.

Less multiple compressors are more expensive, but depending on you room layout, if you can keep the smaller ones powered down (or at least set to a higher temp like 80F-85F during most of the day) you might be able to make your money back in a couple of years.

 

[gatorgrabber]

I'm seeing the same thing you just mentioned. With the layout of the house, I'll go with two outdoor units, one on each end of the house. I'll make sure each has at least one extra port in case I decide to add additional head units in the future. Is there a downside to that?

 

[rlitman]

One thing I have noticed about units that run multiple air handlers is that they have lower SEER.

Less multiple compressors are more expensive, but depending on you room layout, if you can keep the smaller ones powered down (or at least set to a higher temp like 80F-85F during most of the day) you might be able to make your money back in a couple of years.

True, if you can find the space for the extra outdoor units.

The issue is that while there is a benefit to running the compressor slower, it can only slow down so much. And when it's supplying two heads with one off, it just cannot slow down enough to not cycle any more.

 

[nc.detail]

I spoke w/ three HVAC companies this week and all lean to Mitsu or Daiken. I went w/ Mitsu 18k for a 800sq attached garage. Install is scheduled for mid-next week.

On another note, the price ranges I received were all over the place.

 

[Ralf11]

which wall hung units need the least cleaning or are easiest to clean (for a DIYer)?