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Torch selection

superkonr

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Nov 3, 2014
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I'm looking into getting an oxy/propane setup. I'm looking at Smith torches, and like all the other brands they have light, medium, and heavy duty. Am I understanding correctly that heavy duty means that it's robust and will last forever and be able to do big jobs, and therefore I should go for a heavy duty rated one to be able to do everything? Or do I get heavy duty for cutting 4" thick plate, and a light duty one for small sheet metal brazing type jobs?
Basically I'm wondering if a heavy duty rated torch will also do "light duty" jobs or if I will need different torches. I'm looking at the Smith SC209/WH200A for cutting heavy steel, heating up parts, and light brazing work.
T-rated hose will be used with the propane of course.
Thanks!
 
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BDT/NWMN

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Buy according to what the torch will be used for... Hooking a large torch up to small cylinders "tanks" is a sad-bad thing to do.. The small acetylene cylinders can only supply so much fuel per hour.. It is the nature of the beast.. The lease or purchase of welding cylinders should be factored into any thoughts of buying a torch. Yep, propane can be used in place of acetylene for some tasks.


I own three torches and nine tanks, and hate holding a large, clunky torch handle to do light jobs. That is what the smaller one is for. For You to somewhat conserve expenses, I would recommend buying a torch and cylinders large enough to handle the biggest use. Later on, a second smaller torch can be purchased, and share the cylinders. But this idea would only save buying one oxygen cylinder if using acetylene for one torch, and propane for the other..

You will really first have to determine your actual needs and budget...
 
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MoonRise

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The heavy-duty torch is a bit bigger and heavier than the medium-duty torch.

The Smith heavy-duty torch handle WH200A is 1" diameter, 7.5" long, and weighs 1.01 lb.

The Smith medium-duty torch handle WH100 is 15/16" diameter, 7" long, and weighs 0.86 lbs.

The Smith standard-duty torch handle AW1A is 11/16" diameter, 5.75" long, and weighs 0.37 lbs.

Those numbers are from the Smith (Miller) gas equipment catalog, and are for the torch handle only.

You still have to put on the tip(s) and attachment (cutting or heating).

The heavy-duty cutting attachment SC209 is 12.5" long and weighs 1.83 lbs. So now your heavy-duty cutting set-up is up to 1.01 + 1.83 = 2.94 lbs. Without the actual cutting tip yet.

The medium-duty MC509 cutting attachment is 11.25" long and weighs 1.1 lb. So the medium-duty cutting set-up is up to 0.86 + 1.1 = 1.96 lbs. Again, we haven't even put the actual cutting tip in yet.

So, the HD one is 3 lbs in your hand and the MD one is 2 lbs in your hand.

With either one, you need to use the appropriate tip (size and type) for the task at hand.

Just like you don't use a jewelers' or watch makers' hammer to break apart a concrete sidewalk or a 16 lb sledgehammer to work on a watch (unless you are trying to go all Sledge-O-Matic on it :D ), use the appropriate tool for the task at hand.

The HD torch handle and cutting attachment would use SC50 series two-piece heavy preheat cutting tips and cover a steel thickness range of 3/16" thick (SC50-00 tip, using oxygen at the rate of 47 SCFH on preheat and 24 SCFH when cutting and propane at the rate of 13 SCFH on preheat) up to 8" thick (SC50-5 tip, using oxygen at 90 SCFH preheat and 550 SCFH cutting and propane at 20 SCFH on preheat). The catalog says you need a 100 lb propane tank (at 70 deg F, that 100 lb tank can supply up to ~120 SCFH of propane) for cutting up to 8" thick steel.

The heavy-duty SC40 medium preheat propane cutting tips cover a thickness range of 1/4" to 4" thick steel.

The medium-duty MC40 medium preheat propane cutting tips cover a thickness range of3/16" to 4" thick steel and use oxygen at 35/24 SCFH (preheat/cutting) and propane at 7 SCFH for the MC40-00 tip (3/16" rated) up to 35/320 SCFH oxygen and propane at 7 SCFH for the MC40-4 tip (4" rated).

There are no heavy-duty or light-duty propane Smith brazing tips, only acetylene tips in those series (at least that is what the current catalog lists)

The medium-duty propane Smith brazing tip MW411 uses oxygen at 51.9 SCFH and propane at 13 SCFH.

If you want a multi-flame heating tip (aka 'rosebud'), Smith lists heavy-duty and medium-duty propane tips (ST600 and ST800 series HD propane rosebuds with heat outputs from 58k to 614k Btu/hr and MT800, MT805, and MT615 MD propane rosebuds at 93k, 208k, and 269k Btu/hr respectively) but no standard-duty propane rosebud tips (just acetylene in standard-duty).

If you want to braze with Smith oxy-propane equipment, it looks like the medium-duty torch handle is the way to go.

But you would 'only' be able to cut up to 4" thick steel with that series and oxy-propane. :lol_hitti The medium-duty cutting attachment and tip can get up to 6" thick steel cutting if you go oxy-acetylene (same torch handle, same cutting attachment, just a different cutting tip for the different fuel).
 
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superkonr

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Damn, thank you MoonRise!! Medium duty is the one for me then! Thanks for all the info, I've been trying to research this stuff and could only find little bits and pieces of info and it made it a bit confusing. It sounds like I need to pick up an MC509/WH100 and then a bunch of tips.
Thanks guys!
 

Virgil Tech

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I have both 200 and 500 series Smith torches in my securely locked box, and have used both for over 40 years.
They are SMITH, not ITW Smith.

If I needed to replace either or both, I would NOT buy ITW product.
ITW is already in violation of their agreement to honor LIFETIME Warranty on SMITH torches and ITW has a well established reputation, going back more than 10 years, for buying a name and whoring it to the maximum, as they did with Miller and Hobart Brothers.

ITW Smith torches are no longer worth the price.
 

Engine

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The medium-duty MC40 medium preheat propane cutting tips cover a thickness range of3/16" to 4" thick steel and use oxygen at 35/24 SCFH (preheat/cutting) and propane at 7 SCFH for the MC40-00 tip (3/16" rated) up to 35/320 SCFH oxygen and propane at 7 SCFH for the MC40-4 tip (4" rated).

I have been using the 00 tip for oxy-propane cutting on 3/16" up to 3/8" steel at 20 to 30 psi oxygen and 7 psi propane. Sometimes I can get a real clean cut and other times it's a little rough. Could you let me know if I'm in the right ballpark with these pressure settings with that tip and what settings to use for the size 0 tip? Thanks.
 
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superkonr

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I have both 200 and 500 series Smith torches in my securely locked box, and have used both for over 40 years.
They are SMITH, not ITW Smith.

If I needed to replace either or both, I would NOT buy ITW product.
ITW is already in violation of their agreement to honor LIFETIME Warranty on SMITH torches and ITW has a well established reputation, going back more than 10 years, for buying a name and whoring it to the maximum, as they did with Miller and Hobart Brothers.

ITW Smith torches are no longer worth the price.

Thanks for the heads up! How do I tell the difference? I'm going to pick up a used one, I figured that rebuilding an old one would be better than a new one. I'm eyeballing this one at the moment: http://www.ebay.com/itm/302236272487?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
 

MoonRise

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I have been using the 00 tip for oxy-propane cutting on 3/16" up to 3/8" steel at 20 to 30 psi oxygen and 7 psi propane. Sometimes I can get a real clean cut and other times it's a little rough. Could you let me know if I'm in the right ballpark with these pressure settings with that tip and what settings to use for the size 0 tip? Thanks.

RTFM. :D

Miller (Smith) oxy-fuel (not oxy-acetylene) cutting tip manual

https://www.millerwelds.com/files/owners-manuals/O271257A_MIL.pdf

Medium-duty (MC40 oxy-propane) medium-preheat info on page 9

For cutting 3/16" steel, the chart/manual says use the MC40-00 tip at 30 psi oxygen and 10 psi propane. Sounds like you are not feeding enough gas (both oxygen AND propane) to the tip.

For cutting 3/8" steel, you should move up to an MC40-0 tip at 40 psi oxygen and still 10 psi propane (the propane is just for the preheat flame, the cutting is actually from the pure oxygen jet). Sounds like you are trying to use too small of a tip with the MC40-00 on 3/8" steel, use the one size bigger MC40-0 tip.

:beer:
 

dkroth

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The catalog says you need a 100 lb propane tank ...

Are there any oxy propane rigs that use conventional 20 lb recreational cylinders?

That would be a huge advantage over having to visit a welding store to fill up on gas. Yes, you'd still have to get oxygen from the usual channels.

I've got an oxy-acetylene set up now. I'd CL it in a minute if there's a more convenient oxy-propane alternative.
 

Virgil Tech

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Thanks for the heads up! How do I tell the difference? I'm going to pick up a used one, I figured that rebuilding an old one would be better than a new one. I'm eyeballing this one at the moment: http://www.ebay.com/itm/302236272487?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Best I can tell ITW pulled the same **** with Smith they pulled with Miller and Hobart Bros, and to my understanding the Contract of Sale when they bought Smith was supposed to prevent that ****.
I don't know how you'd tell the difference but a servicing local dealer could probably tell you real quick.
I do know one of ITW's favorite tricks is substituting cheaper materials. 15 years back they sold truckloads of MIG gas regulators that lasted for the length of the warranty when used with C-25, but wouldn't make 6 months on straight Co2 without corroding the brass.
ITW also has a deal of flipping new machinery to men with demonstrated ability to give real world testing. The test period runs exactly 90 days, and ITW doesn't want to know if their **** falls apart on day 92.
ITW was caught saving less than a cent per regulator by not using thread sealant, and exposed on the Hobart board years back by one of their testers.

As to using BBQ tanks for O/P torches, might I suggest some pencil & paper ciphering on the burn ratio of O/P cutting torches. You're going to burn up a couple 330cf Oxygen bottles cutting with a 6 pound propane. The CGA# of the vapor valve on a propane can is the same for 6#, 20#, 100# and 500 gallon. The propane is the same as well.
 

MoonRise

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Are there any oxy propane rigs that use conventional 20 lb recreational cylinders?

That would be a huge advantage over having to visit a welding store to fill up on gas. Yes, you'd still have to get oxygen from the usual channels.

I've got an oxy-acetylene set up now. I'd CL it in a minute if there's a more convenient oxy-propane alternative.

The propane rigs can use pretty much any size propane tank (not a 1 lb propane cylinder, those things would rather quickly run empty and/or run into fuel flow issues ) that can connect to the hose/regulator.

As far as I can tell, the Miller (Smith) catalog says you 'need' a 100 lb propane cylinder to really ensure that continuous use of the torch doesn't run into any fuel flow rate issues.

But for more than really short time or intermittent use, you can 'freeze up' a 'small' propane cylinder. Again, depending on several factors. Such as ambient temperature, time you are actually flowing the propane, cylinder size, and flow rate (depends directly on the specific tip you are using).

With other uses (propane weed burner mostly), I have 'frosted up' a 20 lb (full when I started the task) propane BBQ cylinder to the point that the torch/flame was greatly affected. Within like 20-30 minutes of continuous use. YMMV. I would not want to have experienced that fuel starvation with an oxy-fuel system!

But at least propane doesn't have the 1:7 withdrawal rate 'limit' that acetylene does!

But you can't weld with oxy-propane. If that matters to you.

Or your torch handle doesn't have oxy-propane brazing tips available. Again, if that matters to you.

:beer:
 

Engine

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Thanks for the info and the manual. That may explain why I've had erratic results sometimes. Having steadier hands would probably help some too.
 
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