Torch set or Cheap Plasma Cutter

[garboui]

After longing for one or the other I have finally come to a need for a tool to cut plate up to 1/4".

I am at a fork in the road at the moment about getting either a inexpensive plasma (chineese or used) or just go with a small torch outfit. Right now the big pro for going the plasma route is that its 2bottles that I wont have to worry about storing and filling. Since my usage wont be too frequent not having bottles to maintain seems like a good idea. My other big question, can 120V plasma torches handle 1/4" material? My pro for the torches is that it will provide more functionality as general heating and brazing capabilities.

ANy fedback on what and why you guys are using would be mucho appreciato!

 

[Chuck122]

torches are much more versatile. you can cut, heat, weld, braze etc. plus with good torch you can cut just about any tickness you run into (unless you are building ships) while the cheap plasma cutters are generally not very powerful. also, torches do not require electricity, wich is great if you ever need to use them outside your garage. keep in mind the plasma cutter requires ample amounts of dry and clean air to work well.
to me plasma cutters are not very attracive unless you do sheetmetal work or can afford to buy a nice machine that will cut heavier stuff

 

[Mike007]

I own both. If I could only keep 1 I'd have Oxy/Act. You can use it not only for cutting plate, it will also heat and cut in places where a plasma is not ideal.

 

[Kracin]

torch is more versatile.

but a plasma can be cheaper in the long run, and more convenient if you tend to do most of your cutting/fabbing jobs on or near a workbench.

 

[zkling]

Torches are more versatile overall, but I would say that a plasma is more versatile for cutting. Especially if you plan on cutting thin sheet. Or other materials than steel, such as stainless and aluminum.

Can a 120V plasma cut 1/4"? Most of the good ones can, however you will be at the top of the 115v operating range. Take a look at the Hypertherm powermax 30 for example.

 

[rlitman]

I own both. If I could only keep 1 I'd have Oxy/Act. You can use it not only for cutting plate, it will also heat and cut in places where a plasma is not ideal.

Same here. I don't cut with the torch, because I have plasma, but for every time I fire up the plasma, I've used the torch 10 times.

 

[Kracin]

Torches are more versatile overall, but I would say that a plasma is more versatile for cutting. Especially if you plan on cutting thin sheet. Or other materials than steel, such as stainless and aluminum.

Can a 120V plasma cut 1/4"? Most of the good ones can, however you will be at the top of the 115v operating range. Take a look at the Hypertherm powermax 30 for example.

yeah you can get smaller plasmas that will cut 1/4" i've seen 120v that can go up to 1/2". i'd have to find the link again. but honestly, you could run a small bottle setup, a number 1 tip, and if you can handle a torch well, you can cut 2" stock with it no problem without getting into the larger tips sizes and eating through gas quickly.

 

[ilovevocs]

The plasma takes more setup time by the time you connect power and air source than the torch, for small qtys of work I always find myself going for the torch. Plasma seems cool, and when I bought mine I thought it was going to be a really useful addition to my shop, however, in retrospect money would have been better spent elsewhere.

 

[djjsr]

I have a torch setup. I've used a plasma cutter and I want one. Let me know if you find any good deals.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Depends on what you want...if you want a versatile tool, Torch...you can use it for anything from heating rusty nuts & bolts to cutting scrap. Cut quality is crappy, but it gets the job done...if you want to cut with accuracy & precision, Plasma. Torches are jacks of all trades..master of none.

Personally, a plasma is on my wish list, for heating parts up I'll go with a Oxy-Propane.

 

[Farmall450]

Depends on what you want...if you want a versatile tool, Torch...you can use it for anything from heating rusty nuts & bolts to cutting scrap. Cut quality is crappy, but it gets the job done...if you want to cut with accuracy & precision, Plasma. Torches are jacks of all trades..master of none.

Personally, a plasma is on my wish list, for heating parts up I'll go with a Oxy-Propane.

I think they all have pro's & con's, however, if you just want to make nice cuts on metal probably go plasma. Then again, I hardly use a torch yet I can make a pretty nice cut. Hard to say.

 

[Jason280]

Plasma is so user friendly and easy to use, its difficult to not recommend one. However, if you are going to limit yourself to 110v, then I would go with a torch set. 1/4" can be tough on the 110v units, and I'm just not sure a cheap Chinese plasma will be able to reliably cut that thickness.

If you do go with a torch set, make sure you get as big a set of bottles as possible. Few things are worse than running out of gas in the middle of a cut!

 

[Professur]

Torches do everything a plasma cutter does, plus everything a torch does too .... (including explode and kill everyone around the first time you make a mistake)

 

[sberry]

A torch can be as precision as a plasma.

 

[benjamintmiller]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say get a plasma cutter first. I have both tools and use the plasma cutter far more than the torch.

Is a torch more versatile? Yes. It can cut, weld, braze, and heat. If you do a lot of brazing, feel free to get one, but for most people, a $15 propane torch will do all the heating you need. Few people weld with a torch anymore.

I find myself wanting to cut thinner metal all the time, and the plasma cutter will do this quickly, without blowing holes in the metal, and most importantly, without warping the base metal. With a torch, by the time you're ready to cut, you've already warped the metal.

Some other points: plasma cutters need air and amps, and one setting will cut 90% of metals. Torches need to be lit and adjusted every time you use them. Torches also tend to leave rougher slag, so if you want to machine the part afterwards, you will have to use carbide or frequently sharpen your tools. Torches need expensive gas refills, and are a pain to transport safely.

 

[Zeke]

^^^^^ Right. But, really, 2 completely different tools that happen to do one thing in common.

 

[garboui]

Thanks for the feedback so far guys! To clear up some of the comments that have been brought up, 1/4" will be about 5% of the work that the machine would see. I have made it this far with grinders and saws as there is not much over 1/8" that I tend to deal with. As far as an ample dry air supply this is not an issue.

My budget it about 500. Airliquide has a backpack torch set for sale right now for 360 but how far will a pair of small tanks get me? Portability of the torches is not really important. With my budget I am really limited to something like one of the units linked below or a super steal on a used unit (anyone in the Hamilton area looking to unload?).

http://www.lotoswelders.ca/23301.html

 

[camjeep3]

If you dont plan on cutting lots of stainless or aluminum. Get a torch first, the torch will last a life time... a cheap Chinese Plasma? I doubt it. learn to cut braze and weld with the torch! heat bolts etc etc. If you do plan on lots of exotic and thin metals though, the plasma still might be the way to go though.... Get Both!

 

[ilovevocs]

For cutting thin metals their are better alternatives then a plasma or a torch IMHO. I prefer to cut saw or sheer in lieu of plasma or torch cutting; holes and such, part goes on the mill. It's cleaner, more accurate, and leaves less cleanup / setup time. Maybe it's my perspective, but I always attempt to use it as a last resort.

 

[diesel research]

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[shiftdrift]

Look at the everlast plasma cutters

 

[garboui]

Look at the everlast plasma cutters

Thanks for that suggestion. Slightly above my current budget but this unit is definitely a viable option for $718 after shaping and tax.

http://www.everlastwelders.ca/plasma-cutters/supercut-50p.php

 

[shiftdrift]

I have the 200dx tig welder from.them and it works amazing. The quality of work I can do with it even amazes me.

 

[garboui]

Leaning towards this unit right now. Looks to be a rebagged everlast as searching the model number brings up lots of everlast reviews. The big deciding factor now is if the consumables are easily procured.

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...volts-with-all-accessories-W0QQAdIdZ396726705

Yes its cheap, but the difference between this and the everlast could buy me a nice used oxy setup.

 

[shiftdrift]

Is it warrantied? I know mine is 5 year warranty

 

[Kracin]

Depends on what you want...if you want a versatile tool, Torch...you can use it for anything from heating rusty nuts & bolts to cutting scrap. Cut quality is crappy, but it gets the job done...if you want to cut with accuracy & precision, Plasma. Torches are jacks of all trades..master of none.

Personally, a plasma is on my wish list, for heating parts up I'll go with a Oxy-Propane.

a torch tip can cut as good as a plasma. it can braze as good as a brazing tip (using a cutting tip).

it depends on the users, not the torch......

 

[JonnFX]

Also, remember that (clean metal) fumes from a plasma are far more dangerous than a torch. There are lots of heavy metals in the plasma fumes.

Always, always, always wear an appropriate mask. A proper air evacuation set up or water bath can be used with a mask, also.

 

[garboui]

a torch tip can cut as good as a plasma. it can braze as good as a brazing tip (using a cutting tip).

it depends on the users, not the torch......

I have experience with torches in the past and realize this. Though, probably more from lack of practice my torch cuts have always left a lot of cleaning up.

Also, remember that (clean metal) fumes from a plasma are far more dangerous than a torch. There is lots of heavy metals in the plasma fumes.

Always, always, always wear an appropriate mask. A proper air evacuation set up or water bath can be used with a mask, also.

Thanks! I'll keep this in mind. I was planning on using outside only and calling that good enough but now I think Ill invest in a respirator as well.

 

[Zeke]

I love my cutting torch. But, I'd like to have a plasma cutter for intricate patterns on thin material.

 

[rlitman]

a torch tip ... can braze as good as a brazing tip (using a cutting tip).

I'd find it a bit coarse for brazing, but a cutting torch makes an excellent mini rosebud.

 

[garboui]

Well I did it. I followed my gut instinct and decided against the chinese plasma and bought a torch outfit.

Went in today to praxair to get some argon for the mig and they had a victor oxy-prop cutting/rosebud torch kit (toolbox, hoses, goggles etc....) for 199. Picked up a 55cu.ft O2 bottle with it too.

All in all it cam in under budget of the cheapest chin. plasma or small 18cu.ft backpack torch kits . The best part is that in the future all i need is a brazing tip and acetylene tank do do everything else a torch does

 

[AndyA]

I think you made the right choice on the torch over the plasma. If I could only have one, I'd pick the torch.

The trick to getting good cuts is to use the proper tip for the material size.

Someone also mentioned torch cut parts were difficult to machine. From my experience it's the plasma cut parts that are difficult. Plasma cut parts will have a nitrided edge (from the 78% nitrogen in air). Even carbide can have trouble cutting this. I've found grinding is the best option. It's a real pita.
O/A cut parts won't have any nitride since the gasses from the torch will act as a sort of shield from the air and the O/A torch has only carbon, hydrogen and oxygen present.

You can also use propane for cutting. You probably already have a tank on your grill. Propane is considerably cheaper than acetylene. It's safer (doesn't self-decompose above 15psi, narrower range of flammable mixtures) Buy the tips for propane (part numbers with GPN iirc). Propane also works well for brazing, but I don't recommend welding with it since the flame doesn't have the "feather" and it's nearly impossible to set the mixture correctly.

 

[91bronc300]

Well I did it. I followed my gut instinct and decided against the chinese plasma and bought a torch outfit.

Went in today to praxair to get some argon for the mig and they had a victor oxy-prop cutting/rosebud torch kit (toolbox, hoses, goggles etc....) for 199. Picked up a 55cu.ft O2 bottle with it too.

All in all it cam in under budget of the cheapest chin. plasma or small 18cu.ft backpack torch kits . The best part is that in the future all i need is a brazing tip and acetylene tank do do everything else a torch does

Excellent choice! Incidentally, what regulator pressures do the instructions that your Victor came with say to run? I have a Smith oxy/propane torch that the instructions say to run the oxygen at 20psi and the propane at 15psi and when I first got the torch I did a bunch of cutting using those pressures and my cuts always looked like garbage and were hard to do. I found on a welding forum where people were saying to use around 35psi for oxygen and 5psi for propane. Tried that and my torch cut SO much better so I've been with that since.

Another thing I've found with mine is that when heating up the metal when getting ready cut, hold the torch so the tip face is about a full inch from the metal. Then when you can tell the metal is ready for the oxygen stream, drop the torch down closer so the inner cone is almost touching and then start cutting. That's different from acetylene where you hold the inner cone very close when preheating and when cutting. But if you try to use the tip of the inner flame cones to heat the metal like you do with acetylene it takes much longer. Must just be a difference in the way propane burns. The hottest part of a propane flame seems to be about an inch out from the tip, where there is no visible flame cone.

So what are you going to use for a cart?

 

[garboui]

Excellent choice! Incidentally, what regulator pressures do the instructions that your Victor came with say to run? I have a Smith oxy/propane torch that the instructions say to run the oxygen at 20psi and the propane at 15psi and when I first got the torch I did a bunch of cutting using those pressures and my cuts always looked like garbage and were hard to do. I found on a welding forum where people were saying to use around 35psi for oxygen and 5psi for propane. Tried that and my torch cut SO much better so I've been with that since.

So what are you going to use for a cart?

The sales rep said to run the oxy/prop at a 3:1 to start for pressures. Havent hooked it up yet hopefully tomorrow aft ill have some time to play.

Brazing and silver solder is possible with prop??? the rep didnt seem to think so.


As for the cart im planning on building on the shopping cart based cart I built while I was in highschool. Going to mount the two 55cu.ft tanks side by side on the wide end. Make a mount for the 20lb tank in front of that then a raised shelf to hold the mig above it. Add cable/hose hooks and a storage tray and call it a day! If I come across some good metal cheap or have some good spare from a job ill def be looking in to building something much less crude.

 

[91bronc300]

As for the cart im planning on building on the shopping cart based cart I built while I was in highschool. Going to mount the two 55cu.ft tanks side by side on the wide end. Make a mount for the 20lb tank in front of that then a raised shelf to hold the mig above it. Add cable/hose hooks and a storage tray and call it a day! If I come across some good metal cheap or have some good spare from a job ill def be looking in to building something much less crude.

Great idea on using an old shopping cart I used an old wheelchair. It's a good idea using something somewhat large like that because you can hang all sorts of cables and things off of it. If you decide you want something different than an shopping cart check craigslist for an old wheelchair, a bariatric wheelchair would be even better because they have extra weight capacity. And they roll so easily even loaded down.

 

[Jack Olsen]

It depends on what you're typically cutting. But for me, the answer is neither.

I cut a fair amount of plate. The cheapest/cleanest straight cuts are from a $30 7-1/4" circular saw with a $30 metal-cutting blade. For curved cuts, a good (in my case: Bosch) jigsaw is fast and clean.

In some applications, a carbide-toothed cut off saw or a portaband will do what I need.

I never use my Oxy/AC setup for cutting. I've never felt like I needed a plasma. But again, it depends on what kind of work you're doing.

 

[jimcolt]

Link to video showing a Hypertherm Powermax1250 cutting 5/8" steel. To set it up.....turn the power switch on, plug in a compressed air hose, cut. Drag the torch on the plate. Works the same on aluminum, stainless and steel from 28 gauge through about 1.5".

Yes, I have a set of oxyfuel torches. No I never use them to cut metal....they are for heating and bending!

Jim Colt

 

[rlitman]

Jim is the man when it comes to plasma cutting. And it seems from that video he has a little robot in his dna too. There's no way a human could follow a line that straight.

Brazing and silver solder is possible with prop?

Oxy-propane? Absolutely yes. Welding, sadly no. But you need different shade goggles. The shade 5 you would use with o/a is too dark.

 

[garboui]

It depends on what you're typically cutting. But for me, the answer is neither.

I cut a fair amount of plate. The cheapest/cleanest straight cuts are from a $30 7-1/4" circular saw with a $30 metal-cutting blade. For curved cuts, a good (in my case: Bosch) jigsaw is fast and clean.

In some applications, a carbide-toothed cut off saw or a portaband will do what I need.

I never use my Oxy/AC setup for cutting. I've never felt like I needed a plasma. But again, it depends on what kind of work you're doing.

If I start doing more sheet metal work I really like that suggestion of using the circular saw. finally a good use for my old b&d saw that's been collecting dust. most of the time my cutting off thin gauge stuff I'd Lotte enough that I can put up with using the angle grinder. the torch I think will fill in any need I have for the Times when I have to deal with thick stuff. likely the torch will be used way more often freeing **** bolts.

 

[AndyA]

There's no way a human could follow a line that straight

I cheat by using a 72" aluminum ruler/straight edge and a shielded tip. I clamp the straight edge to the material offset from the line I want to cut to compensate for the width of the torch head and the kerf. Then just draw the torch down the straight edge. Trying to have a constant speed of travel is the only thing I have to worry about. It's about as low tech as you can get and yet works suprisingly well.

This is an older picture using some 1/4" flat stock as a guide. That's 1" thick material. I don't have any pictures using the straight edge, but you get the idea.