So I need a set of torque extensions since I'm doing more car work at the shop with aluminum wheels instead of truck work. I was looking at the harbor freight or sunnex set. Anyone recommend a set or have opinions on these sets
Torque extensions
- Thread starter joedodge
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Be prepared for the whole forum to come out of the woodwork and tell you that torque extensions are evil, and you should be using a torque wrench...
That said, I use the hell out of mine. I can't remember who makes them, but I bought them through our napa rep and their catalog. Just be sure to "calibrate them" the first time you use them, so you know where to set the impact to get in the ballpark. They'll never be as accurate as a torque wrench, but they'll be in the ballpark once the gun is setup properly, and consistent torque across fasteners is more important than a precise torque value.
That said, I use the hell out of mine. I can't remember who makes them, but I bought them through our napa rep and their catalog. Just be sure to "calibrate them" the first time you use them, so you know where to set the impact to get in the ballpark. They'll never be as accurate as a torque wrench, but they'll be in the ballpark once the gun is setup properly, and consistent torque across fasteners is more important than a precise torque value.
sberry
Banned
I will probably catch hell for his too but I never use them. I use an impact period. After thousands and thousands of cycles I can get as close as one of those crude sticks, have checked with torque wrenches dozens and dozens of times. Believe it or not an impact is a hi skilled use tool. its not just grab wide open till it stops turning. I still need some stripe on my sockets so I can see the rotation.
One of my guys recently bought torque wrench for checking wheels, he has been hitting mine once in a while, says,,, real good.
One of my guys recently bought torque wrench for checking wheels, he has been hitting mine once in a while, says,,, real good.
kiatech
Well-known member
Guys at my work say they are evil but then they tighten them down with full power on the impact gun and then take torque wrench set to 100ftlbs and say "see they are tight" well no ****, they are probably at 300+ftlbs
sberry
Banned
Go figure, I am constantly in awe of the skill set of the American workforce. We have some of the finest craftsman in history and some of the dumbest shits learn everything they know by hand to mouth. I am no academic but I constantly work on skills like,,, observation,,, I think there is a hesitation to get glasses which really adds to some problems but they been like that all their lives. Also there is a huge tendency to assume because you were good at running some machine for 23 years makes you good at everything else... or because you done it once its the right way to do it.
Even experts have missed areas, weak areas and very few men are good at absolutely everything. Country's like Germany have more stringent proficiency standards but it would tend to cripple the workforce here if you threw out the incompetent, half the people work with nuts and bolts do not remotely understand how they work. Here is the difference with the impact,,,, like the old school guy I got the feel, by hand and with the gun for tight right, last time I probably use T wrench was head work? Even a small engine head, usually don't bother, really, hand ratchet a couple passes paying attn to feel.
My guys use wrench, cant say as we can find any difference in the long run. With impact I realize size of bolt, lube of thread etc, soft 1/2 bolt or hard 3/4, yes, there is a difference and after a while one would think some of it would be obvious but they still let them play with tools day after day at the tire store.
Got to remember,,, half of the world is below average,,,,,, 1/2
sberry
Banned
This is why we see so much good 'amateur" work. The trades try to train someone too stupid to make burgers, no matter how hard you try you end up with a trained chimp. Some places there is a filter, some drop out, some manage to stay cause they aint got nothing better to do, they would be a klutz no matter what the occupation and there does seem to be some assumption by academics that everyone can be trained for something,,,, maybe so but it aint my job man.
20 yrs experience is no garantee of anything,,, you can be doing it wrong or the hard way forever. I ask someone on an oil well,,,, how come you do it that way,,, well,,, we been doing it forever. Some stupid deal I dont remember but it was obvious no one had read the instruction manual,,,,, this is different than,,, there is no better way to do it Different concept.
I find out, my helper cant look at something and tell if its straight, if I want him to do it that way got to tell him to get a level, I can look without thinking about it and tell if its level, plumb, parrallel, straight etc, I cant draw isometric pipe runs but can tell you it aint level without a tool.
20 yrs experience is no garantee of anything,,, you can be doing it wrong or the hard way forever. I ask someone on an oil well,,,, how come you do it that way,,, well,,, we been doing it forever. Some stupid deal I dont remember but it was obvious no one had read the instruction manual,,,,, this is different than,,, there is no better way to do it Different concept.
I find out, my helper cant look at something and tell if its straight, if I want him to do it that way got to tell him to get a level, I can look without thinking about it and tell if its level, plumb, parrallel, straight etc, I cant draw isometric pipe runs but can tell you it aint level without a tool.
sberry
Banned
It isnt that I couldnt be a machinist, I can make a bushing but would just as soon go to the dentist. I would be average machinist but with a pry bar and a 4 pound hammer, toss in a torch and a welding machine and I am a maniac.
I wanted to go with Adair when the wells were on fire but was jammed up and they really only took so many men anyway but I would have been a poster child for that. Cables, dozers. torches men in a hurry no one beats me at this. I should have been a firman on a rescue squad, I wasnt really burley enough in certain situations but on jobs could make up for it via skill set, as a fireman no one would have noticed without a test.
I wanted to go with Adair when the wells were on fire but was jammed up and they really only took so many men anyway but I would have been a poster child for that. Cables, dozers. torches men in a hurry no one beats me at this. I should have been a firman on a rescue squad, I wasnt really burley enough in certain situations but on jobs could make up for it via skill set, as a fireman no one would have noticed without a test.
mobiledynamics
Well-known member
What is the COO of the Sunnex..
I use Accu Torq. Made in Sweden.
However, I'm just a weekend warrior so I generally hand tight, use the stick, then go all around with a the torque wrench. Speed is not on my side. I'm not doing it Nascar style...
I use Accu Torq. Made in Sweden.
However, I'm just a weekend warrior so I generally hand tight, use the stick, then go all around with a the torque wrench. Speed is not on my side. I'm not doing it Nascar style...
firebox40dash5
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I forget exactly which brand I bought, but they're the same as the Matco WTK5500 set, and the Mac set among others. I got them new on fleabay for $90ish.
I'm solidly in the "yeah, I use 'em" category. I've never had a problem with broken studs, busted nuts, warped rotors, or missing wheels down the road when using them. Which has been every car I've worked on in the last ~2 years. I'm with Stick, as long as you're around the torque spec (preferably the high side of it) and consistent, no problems.
I'd never tighten a customer's lugs without torque sticks or a torque wrench. If one saw me using a gun on their nuts with no torque limiter, I'd fully expect them to kick me in mine.
Years ago, I took my DD to Wally World to get some tires mounted, since they're stupid cheap. I usually throw everything in my truck and bring it to them, but I was in a hurry and didn't feel like dragging out all my jackstands, so this time I brought them the car with the tires in the back seat. Big mistake... my rotors were warped as **** within 100 miles (new Brembo-brand rotors, few thousand on them) and I needed an 18" breaker bar to loosen the lugnuts.
I'm solidly in the "yeah, I use 'em" category. I've never had a problem with broken studs, busted nuts, warped rotors, or missing wheels down the road when using them. Which has been every car I've worked on in the last ~2 years. I'm with Stick, as long as you're around the torque spec (preferably the high side of it) and consistent, no problems.
I'd never tighten a customer's lugs without torque sticks or a torque wrench. If one saw me using a gun on their nuts with no torque limiter, I'd fully expect them to kick me in mine.
Years ago, I took my DD to Wally World to get some tires mounted, since they're stupid cheap. I usually throw everything in my truck and bring it to them, but I was in a hurry and didn't feel like dragging out all my jackstands, so this time I brought them the car with the tires in the back seat. Big mistake... my rotors were warped as **** within 100 miles (new Brembo-brand rotors, few thousand on them) and I needed an 18" breaker bar to loosen the lugnuts.torque sticks are accurate, math does not lie.
I can take my 100ft-lbs SnapOn torque extension and tighten down a wheel, then set my torque wrench to 100 ft-lbs and the bolt will not move. I set my wrench to 110ft-lbs and the bolt moves.
It is an engineered product. Every tire shop this side of the Mississippi uses them, the dealership uses them, my shop uses them, what shop does not use them?
I have them in all different sizes for tightening lug nuts, wheel hubs, harmonic balancers etc... I have never had an issue with one being too tight or not tight enough and this is over 3 years of everyday use.
I can take my 100ft-lbs SnapOn torque extension and tighten down a wheel, then set my torque wrench to 100 ft-lbs and the bolt will not move. I set my wrench to 110ft-lbs and the bolt moves.
It is an engineered product. Every tire shop this side of the Mississippi uses them, the dealership uses them, my shop uses them, what shop does not use them?
I have them in all different sizes for tightening lug nuts, wheel hubs, harmonic balancers etc... I have never had an issue with one being too tight or not tight enough and this is over 3 years of everyday use.
sberry
Banned
Pulling wrenches is brain work as well as power, I got to tell big guys that bosses assume can tight a bolt because they are big how to do it,,, they surprised how tight this skinny kid can get them. Turn the wrench 90 degrees and you square with it twice the leverage, walk over get wrench 4 inches longer, etc, use a 12 inch crescent vs the 8, duh, the other day got to tell a guy,,, change the ratchet from a 3/8 to 1/2, make it easy, done in a minute vs fighting for 10, you would think it to be obvious,,, get a longer extension, rig it up straight, set it level, turn it square, pull it downhill vs up.
sberry
Banned
That fif not warp your rotors, they may have been too tight but if studsa are thryu a rotor to a hub the tightness of the bolt has nothing to do with it.
You are also right in using a limiting device if you are un sure, over 30 years of regular use with impacts and bolting, a school or 2 and some extensive reading combined withthe experience I can work the gun,m the reasomn for the stick is not everyone can obviously, when I see a fine thread or a coarse one my brain reacts differently in visualizing tightening requirements, I also dont have to do the math on every pick I make with a crane, after hundreds and thousands can look at most situations and figure if it will work, just like amount of weld etc, does not have to be calulated to hi degree of accuracy to work.
If this was so absolutely no car would go, 3/4 of the lug nuts in the world are put on without some device telling the guy its ok, its not a bad thing, but really would make me skeptical if the mechanic didnt have some inate talent or skill for this kind of work if he cant figure out if a bolt is tight.
Millions of lug nuts installed incorrectly evben with torque sticks,,,, millions and under the assumption they are just because he has a gage, has no bearing on clamping power, you can stop turning a bolt and it can be loose, happens every dauy and is a higher contribu7ter to loose wheels than lack of stick use,,,, period, by far and then some.
Dry or damaged fine thread bolt spun on at hi speed Absolutely no telling how much clamping force,,, thats the "math that dont lie" Cary starts some nuts on your wheel when he has sprayed with pen spray, with fingers, runs them to firm slowly, makes to passes with air gun set right while he watches socket rotation and they are tight without seizure while next guy zips it with the stick, figures cause he got a tool he dont got to pay attn, wheel comes to Carys shop week later to have seized nut removed.
I fixed a ton of broken bolts from shop across the street, same principle, go over there and ask,,, how many you get from Cary you have to repair? Probably never.
You are also right in using a limiting device if you are un sure, over 30 years of regular use with impacts and bolting, a school or 2 and some extensive reading combined withthe experience I can work the gun,m the reasomn for the stick is not everyone can obviously, when I see a fine thread or a coarse one my brain reacts differently in visualizing tightening requirements, I also dont have to do the math on every pick I make with a crane, after hundreds and thousands can look at most situations and figure if it will work, just like amount of weld etc, does not have to be calulated to hi degree of accuracy to work.
If this was so absolutely no car would go, 3/4 of the lug nuts in the world are put on without some device telling the guy its ok, its not a bad thing, but really would make me skeptical if the mechanic didnt have some inate talent or skill for this kind of work if he cant figure out if a bolt is tight.
Millions of lug nuts installed incorrectly evben with torque sticks,,,, millions and under the assumption they are just because he has a gage, has no bearing on clamping power, you can stop turning a bolt and it can be loose, happens every dauy and is a higher contribu7ter to loose wheels than lack of stick use,,,, period, by far and then some.
Dry or damaged fine thread bolt spun on at hi speed Absolutely no telling how much clamping force,,, thats the "math that dont lie" Cary starts some nuts on your wheel when he has sprayed with pen spray, with fingers, runs them to firm slowly, makes to passes with air gun set right while he watches socket rotation and they are tight without seizure while next guy zips it with the stick, figures cause he got a tool he dont got to pay attn, wheel comes to Carys shop week later to have seized nut removed.
I fixed a ton of broken bolts from shop across the street, same principle, go over there and ask,,, how many you get from Cary you have to repair? Probably never.
sberry
Banned
Big reason they come up with sophisticated bolts, cheaper that trying to train every installer on the proper installation.
strikeouttruck
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damn sberry I think you need to see a counselor or you just work with crazy people.
I bought neiko torque sticks off amazon and they are great. I think it was 40 bucks for a 5 pack.
I bought neiko torque sticks off amazon and they are great. I think it was 40 bucks for a 5 pack.
The Accutorq sticks look pretty good ... I'm considering these to pre-torque lug nuts.
http://www.ktoolinternational.com/pdfs/accutorq.pdf
http://www.ktoolinternational.com/pdfs/accutorq.pdf
06 DIESEL
Well-known member
I have a set in my box, and honestly I think I used them once, maybe twice since I bought them. I need to get back into the habit of grabbing them when rotating tires.
the1nonlyjl
Banned
Deafautotech
Well-known member
Well I am rather to use torque stick than just straight impact socket and impact wrench!!!!
I has use torque sticks a lot but impact wrench at lowest setting for cars as be safe.... I do torque wrench...
I own a snap on torque sticks as 80, 100, 140.... But had a blue point set... I had used it a lot.
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signcrafter
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I have a set but don't remember the brand, bought them probably ten years ago. On my personal vehicles I grab the lowest one, think it's 70 or 80ft/lbs and zip the lugs on when the car is in the air. Then lower the car and use a torque wrench to do the final tightening. I'm usually not in a hurry so I would rather trust a torque wrench for my personal cars. If I worked in a shop I think I would just use the right torque stick.
Couple questions for those smarter than myself. Does air pressure make a difference when using torque sticks? Or due to how they work does it just stop at the ft/lbs mark no matter what? I guess what I'm trying to ask is if you use a cheap 1/2" impact on 90 psi is the stick going to stop at the same torque as if you were using a top of the line 1/2" impact running at 120PSI? What happens if you are working in a shop and everyone hits the impact at the same time and pressure drops down to 60 or 70 PSI when you are using a torque stick, does that affect the final torque? What about hose size and other things like that?
Couple questions for those smarter than myself. Does air pressure make a difference when using torque sticks? Or due to how they work does it just stop at the ft/lbs mark no matter what? I guess what I'm trying to ask is if you use a cheap 1/2" impact on 90 psi is the stick going to stop at the same torque as if you were using a top of the line 1/2" impact running at 120PSI? What happens if you are working in a shop and everyone hits the impact at the same time and pressure drops down to 60 or 70 PSI when you are using a torque stick, does that affect the final torque? What about hose size and other things like that?
Let me say Im no smarter than you or anyone else here. Ill say tho with the questions you asked, I think you hit the nail on the head. Too many variables. Too many what Ifs.. A torque wrench takes hardly anytime, and the cost associated with a wheel coming off far out ways a couple seconds. The local tire shop didnt torque our rock truck (CAT 730) wheel to spec (350ftlbs) when they did a tire change and it came off. The damage there was a large repair bill. 3-4 grand in parts plus my time. Driver was ok.
I always re-torque the wheels within 50 miles after a tire rotation ... but who has a 350 ft-lb torque wrench laying around?
I saw these statements made on Torquestick.com site:
- Once the correct torque has been reached; The shaft will flex in sync with the blows of the impact gun and bleed off torque.
- Torque Sticks are accurate to within +/- 3% when used with a 375-400ft/lb impact gun.
Not sure what effect on net torque is when using a lighter impact such as a cordless model.
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signcrafter
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The part in red is what kind of concerns me. It only gives a 25 ft/lb range. Lots of impacts are way over this range and some are probably below this range. How do you know exactly what you gun is putting out? Guns get weaker over time, how do you make sure to keep in that 25ft/lb range? Also a few pounds difference in air pressure could put you out of that range. Just curious how accurate they are in "real life" situations and how to make sure you keep your gun in that small range?
Check calibration with a torque wrench periodically. I know what to set my impact at to get the torque sticks in the ballpark. When I switched shops, I checked again, because we ran a different air pressure than my last shop.
For a DIY'er at home, torque sticks don't have a whole lot of benefit if you have a torque wrench. For someone working flat rate in a professional setting where time is money, they make a whole lot of sense.
signcrafter
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So when you check yours do you run the lug on with the stick and then use a torque wrench to see if it will turn anymore? Or do you try to back it off with the torque wrench?
greasemonkey44
Well-known member
i use them; everyday for the 2 years
I got the ATD ones from tool topia; i only use the 80,100,140
they are accurate enough to not be below or above the torque range
I got the ATD ones from tool topia; i only use the 80,100,140
they are accurate enough to not be below or above the torque range