Torque Needed For Job? Torque Possible By Tool?

[oldschoolcraft]

I’ve been looking at my first impact wrench and I’m torn between the m12 250 ft-lbs and the m18 mid-torque 450 ft-lbs and the m18 high-torque 700 ft-lbs.

I realized that these numbers don’t mean anything to me.

Is there any rule of thumb or guide on how much torque we can generate by hand with certain tools? For example a standard socket wrench versus a long one versus a breaker bar of certain length? I know these tools are rated for maximum torque before they’ll break but that’s max and I’m not sure how much torque I’m actually using.

Is there a rule of thumb on how much torque is needed to break certain fasteners like lug nuts or whatever else might be torqued really high, maybe suspension fasteners?

I’m a home gamer but want to be as knowledgeable and skilled as possible with my tools.

 

[matt_i]

I decided based on the barrel size to get Mid M18. The High has a big barrel that I didn't care for. I already have the M18 batteries so that also made it easier.

I feel like your average strength middle aged person* can apply 400 ft-lbs with a long handled 1/2 ratchet or breaker bar without cheater pipes, ideal body position.

* Lets just put a stake on being able to bench press 200#.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

If you had to buy only one i would go with the mid torque. The stubby will be too weak for alot of suspension and seized fasteners, and the hi power will be too big and awkward for small work. They both have their place really, just like you wouldnt use a 3lb sledge to drive a nail or use a 16oz framing hammer to knock pins out of a backhoe bucket.

 

[oldschoolcraft]

If you had to buy only one i would go with the mid torque. The stubby will be too weak for alot of suspension and seized fasteners, and the hi power will be too big and awkward for small work. They both have their place really, just like you wouldnt use a 3lb sledge to drive a nail or use a 16oz framing hammer to knock pins out of a backhoe bucket.

Makes sense. But if you only had to drive 3 nails a year and knock pins out of a backhoe bucket once every six months. Then having a 3 pound sledge would be best because while awkward to drive nails, you can do it three times a year and be super careful and get the job done.

I know this forum is mostly pros so doesn’t really apply to many but there’s some jobs even pros might only do a few times a year.

Not as big a deal for hammers since they’re cheap and awesome but when talking about $100+ cordless tools it might make sense to get the tools that can do the job, albeit awkward, if they’re jobs you do super rare.

 

[bwringer]

Assuming you're working on vehicles, the first two will disappoint you on a regular basis.

More is better here. If you can have only one, get the hardest-hitting.

 

[englishsam]

Forget the m12.

I have more tools than any man could need. But I enjoy them and they bring me happiness so I keep buying them.

Bigger isn't always better. In fact, I use the smallest tool to do a given job. That being said if I were to have one impact it would be the biggest I could afford. There is nothing worst that taking your car apart and being beaten by one bolt and having to admit you can't do it... An impact isn't usually make or break a job - but it makes life easier.

 

[visionguru]

...

Is there any rule of thumb or guide on how much torque we can generate by hand with certain tools? For example a standard socket wrench versus a long one versus a breaker bar of certain length? I know these tools are rated for maximum torque before they’ll break but that’s max and I’m not sure how much torque I’m actually using.

Is there a rule of thumb on how much torque is needed to break certain fasteners like lug nuts or whatever else might be torqued really high, maybe suspension fasteners?

I’m a home gamer but want to be as knowledgeable and skilled as possible with my tools.

There aren't many fasteners that call for more than a 12" 3/8" flex ratchet, which can generate 50 ft-lb comfortably. Lug nuts on a car are around 100 ft-lb, and can be easily moved with a 17" or 24" 1/2" break bar/ratchet.

Years ago, I wanted to DIY a Honda timing belt, one of obstacles is the crank pulley bolt. After watching this video:

I realized that I needed the biggest gun, at the time, Ingersoll Rand W7150. Yes! it took off the cranky pulley bolt like nothing.

I later acquired almost a full line of Ingersoll Rand's newest toys, high torque, mid torque, low torqure, cordless ratchet, sander, drill, etc. Strangely, I rarely use them, except taking off lug nuts with the mid torque. As a home gamer, 30minutes saving on taking off/putting on the fasteners is nothing, unlike the professionals. I like to take my time to enjoy my ratchets, wrenches.

If I had to do it again, only the high torque is actually "needed", all the others are "nice to have".

 

[SeisMec]

I'm with the bigger is better crowd as far as impact wrench purchase. But no one seems to be addressing this part of your question -

these numbers don’t mean anything to me.

Is there any rule of thumb or guide on how much torque we can generate by hand with certain tools? For example a standard socket wrench versus a long one versus a breaker bar of certain length?

I'm on a then end of a 10 minute pause at the moment and am not going to get into now (got to take advantage of the nice weather). But I'll check back in later tonight to see if anyone gives you what looks like a satisfactory to me.

 

[FuzzyTiger]

Is there any rule of thumb or guide on how much torque we can generate by hand with certain tools? For example a standard socket wrench versus a long one versus a breaker bar of certain length?

Take a look at torque wrenches in each size. They are rated for a minimum and maximum torque. Its a decent enough ballpark.

So for example 3/8 drive torque wrenches tend to go from 10ftlbs to 100ftlbs. That's about what you can comfortably generate from a 3/8 drive wrench ~14 inches long. You can easily exceed that but you're probably no longer doing it 'comfortably'' if that makes sense. Like wise 1/2" drive torque wrenches around 24" tend to be rated up to a max of around 250-300ftlbs. So that is what is comfortably achievable with a tool of that length.

This is all assuming you aren't a Olympic weight lifter or something and also that you aren't using extended length tools which do exist and require extra care.

As far as the specific sockets go, don't expect the smallest size in a particular drive to handle anywhere near the max reasonable torque tools in that range will do. And also the largest size available will probably break your tools before they break themselves. For example a 8mm 3/8 socket will have no chance at 100ftlbs, but a 24mm 3/8 socket will probably handle well over 100ftlbs (lug nuts around 19mm get torqued to 100+ ft-lbs regularly for example)

 

[sberry]

Makes sense. But if you only had to drive 3 nails a year and knock pins out of a backhoe bucket once every six months. Then having a 3 pound sledge would be best because while awkward to drive nails, you can do it three times a year and be super careful and get the job done.

I know this forum is mostly pros so doesn’t really apply to many but there’s some jobs even pros might only do a few times a year.

Not as big a deal for hammers since they’re cheap and awesome but when talking about $100+ cordless tools it might make sense to get the tools that can do the job, albeit awkward, if they’re jobs you do super rare.

A bit of this and some of the next posts,. I put up with a little weight and size for lots of power. I actually use the biggest tool I can, 1/2 being most and 1/4 the least. I use 1/2 air ratchet a lot. If I was in to a specific, worked on cars 40 hrs would have 2 tools. What it took. I like all my impact on 1/2, I am all over, 1 drive size and heavy duty.

 

[bushmechanic]

I’ve been looking at my first impact wrench and I’m torn between the m12 250 ft-lbs and the m18 mid-torque 450 ft-lbs and the m18 high-torque 700 ft-lbs.

I realized that these numbers don’t mean anything to me.

Is there any rule of thumb or guide on how much torque we can generate by hand with certain tools? For example a standard socket wrench versus a long one versus a breaker bar of certain length? I know these tools are rated for maximum torque before they’ll break but that’s max and I’m not sure how much torque I’m actually using.

Is there a rule of thumb on how much torque is needed to break certain fasteners like lug nuts or whatever else might be torqued really high, maybe suspension fasteners?

I’m a home gamer but want to be as knowledgeable and skilled as possible with my tools.

You don't need a rule of thumb to calculate the force you can exert on a fastener by hand. It's a lever. One pound-foot is one pound on the end of a one foot lever; as measured at the axis of the fastener.

Just take that and roll with it.

 

[Arcoril]

I have a high torque M18 wrench that I almost never use but would never give up. I keep it around for peace of mind since I always worry that there's going to be a crank or suspension bolt that I won't be able to break free. That high torque M18 gives me the confidence to take on a project knowing that it can tackle pretty much any fastener on a car. That said, 99% of the time I end up using a 3/8 M12 stubby. That little thing will effortlessly break free lugnuts that were tightened to 120 ft-lbs and it's easily my favorite power tool.

 

[justanengineer]

Torque = distance x force from center of rotation. It’s a multiplier that’s often written with a minus sign.

200 ft-lbs = 200 lbs applied at the end of a 12” (one foot) ratchet.

200 ft-lbs also = 133 lbs applied at the end of an 18” (1.5 feet) ratchet.

Isn’t math fun? Hopefully that helps put those impacts capability more in terms of something you can envision.

Lots of folks prefer the tool with the most torque. They get out the impact and want max Ugga-Duggas right away. I prefer the tool that lets me have the finest control over the torque bc I start corroded fasteners on low torque and increase gradually to avoid breaking them. Ask any wife about low vibration, it does a lot to loosen things up! On many electrics there is no control, it’s just trigger on or off, no knob to dial it back - no thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nelstomlinson]

Is there any rule of thumb or guide on how much torque we can generate by hand with certain tools? For example a standard socket wrench versus a long one versus a breaker bar of certain length? I know these tools are rated for maximum torque before they’ll break but that’s max and I’m not sure how much torque I’m actually using.

Torque is pounds times feet: if you hang your 200 pounds off the end of a 24" breaker bar, that's 400 footpounds.

A good rule of thumb is make the square drive size close to the size of the bolt body. 1/2-12 bolt? Use a 1/2" drive ratchet. 1/4-20 bolt? Use a 1/4" drive ratchet. Use a torque wrench, especially on smaller stuff, to keep from over torquing.

 

[Ign]

Trying to equate impact to hand lever is a bit deceptive just because arguably the best feature of impact technology is "shock value". That constant bam, bam, bam can have different results than slowly loading a lever with weight.

So, what's the answer? Buy the impact you can afford now and start saving for the next one.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

M12 is a joke, dont even bother.

 

[M635_Guy]

OP - They just started shipping the new Gen 2 version of the Mid, which is more powerful than the predecessor, has much better tri-LED lighting and is smaller. So if you're just looking for a single impact that will do nearly everything, the new 1/2" is a great choice IMHO. It's going to do just about everything. Like...almost everything... and not have the serious heft of the big-dog 2767. Plus it will fit in a lot more places (e.g. it's pretty damn tight for a 2767 to get in there and do caliper brackets etc.). If you're only going to have one, I'd highly recommend that one.

I'm a DIY'er like you, and the Stubby and the just-replaced Mid are all I've ever needed. I originally bought the Stubby and the High at Black Friday. Then a couple weeks later I saw a crazy-good deal on the Mid (from Home Depot - $152) and grabbed it, thinking I could return the 2767. As it turned out, I couldn't. I thought about selling it, but I had a sorta-rusty project car in my driveway and thought it might come in handy. Ultimately, I wound up passing the car along to a guy who wanted to fix it up with his dad, and so the 2767 is un-used.

I haven't had to do wheel hubs or exhaust stuff with with my Mid, but I have a lot of faith it's up to the task. It's done everything I've asked of it with very little fuss. The last time I had to use it was on my mother's lugs because some jackass way over-tightened them and the Stubby struggled.

That said, the "useless/joke" rolleyes2) Stubby gets most of the work - not too much seems to faze it in terms of normal maintenance stuff. It's so light and easy and has no trouble with my lugs/etc. I do run it with the XC 6.0Ah, which it apparently benefits from, and mine is the 1/2" which theoretically benefits from the additional mass of the 1/2" sockets. But whatever. It's great. I'm not sure I'd recommend it as the only one, but it's a fantastic companion to a mid or high.

I have a high torque M18 wrench that I almost never use but would never give up. I keep it around for peace of mind since I always worry that there's going to be a crank or suspension bolt that I won't be able to break free. That high torque M18 gives me the confidence to take on a project knowing that it can tackle pretty much any fastener on a car. That said, 99% of the time I end up using a 3/8 M12 stubby. That little thing will effortlessly break free lugnuts that were tightened to 120 ft-lbs and it's easily my favorite power tool.

You sound like me about the 2767 - lol. I really should sell it though...

 

[Ign]

I rather like my stubby M12 solely for size and weight, but I don't expect a lot out of it so I guess I'm not disappointed

 

[richfinn]

Do you have access to compressed air??

One impact air tool will cover all your bases