Torque Wrench vs Torque Sticks for wheels?

[maxcarp709]

I have a question for you automotive pros.What is best to use for torquing the wheels back on your ride?I was working on the brakes of my truck yesterday and when it cam time to put the wheels back on,I broke out a torque wrench I got 20+yrs ago from the corner parts store.I never bought a good ft/lb torque wrench because the shops I used to work at had always had one that was part of the shop equipment.It occurred to me that a set of Torque Sticks would be a better investment for putting wheels back on.Any opinions?

 

[JonnyMac]

Torque sticks are just a quick approximation if you ask me. I always feel much better going over them with a torque wrench if the setting is important or critical...

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Torque sticks are by far best if you put on 100 wheels a day.

 

[GeorgeFromPa]

putting wheels on for 40 years and iv never used either. just gun it up and walk away
time is money

 

[HomeTheaterMan]

A torque wrench by far. I've seen too many wheels fall off after being put on with torque sticks. Too much depends on the air pressure, the gun used, etc. They are designed to be used with a gun putting out a certain amount of ft lbs and if your gun doesn't put out that exact amount, they won't be accurate.

 

[HomeTheaterMan]

putting wheels on for 40 years and iv never used either. just gun it up and walk away
time is money

This is the reason people have wheels fall off, rotors that are warped prematurely, etc.

 

[MShaw]

The company I worked for for over 20 years built military vehicles. At one point we wanted to use torque sticks so they were tested for accuracy and repeatibility. They failed miserably and the government would not allow us to use them.

 

[Showkey]

This is the reason people have wheels fall off, rotors that are warped prematurely, etc.

Yep......that's also how you define........ HACK or maybe a professional HACK

One warning.....then the hack and his tool box would be on the curb......

 

[bcradio]

Torque wrench is your best bet

 

[Pipe]

putting wheels on for 40 years and iv never used either. just gun it up and walk away
time is money

Dad?

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

We have one torque stick and its always used with the same gun... have checked it multiple times against a torque wrench. Always right at 80ft-lbs... which covers most all euro stuff we work on.

 

[Adam.C]

It occurred to me that a set of Torque Sticks would be a better investment for putting wheels back on.Any opinions?

Not an auto pro tech, but I think I know the answer:
A torque wrench is always the preferable choice for every situation. But it doesn't buy you much if you aren't cleaning the mating parts, cleaning and lubricating the threads.

If you are looking for a quick and dirty solution, torque sticks are the answer. If you are looking for very accurate lug preloads, cleaning and a GOOD torque wrench is the only solution.

The reasonable middle ground is cleaning and using torque sticks which is where the auto repair industry is on this subject.

 

[bobcatdan]

If your impact gun is propperly set, torque sticks can be very accurate. Torque sticks are made to take around 250 ft lbs input torque. Before using torque sticks, you are suppose to get your impact as close to 250. Leaving you 800 ft lbs impact on high because who ever adjust their impact down. I have torque sticks and use them sometimes. Generally I use a torque wrench as I use the cordless to run lug nuts down. I don't trust a cordless to tighten lug nuts.

 

[nh_yota]

Torque sticks are better than nothing.

 

[dnschmidt]

Torque sticks work great if used with the proper impact. This impact should put out no more than 450 ft-lb. The most common gun that meets this specification is the I-R 231 and that's what I use. This gun fits the sweet spot and currently they are plenty cheap.

If you use too powerful of a gun you will notice the problem immediately. The torque stick will go into vibration. This happens to me if I use my Aircat guns which are amazingly powerful or if I use the Milwaukee Fuel big gun which is also wacko strong. The Non-Fuel Milwaukee cordless is right about at the limit of what you want with respect to maximum power and can be used but it's right at the upper limit. The Fuel will overpower the torque stick every time.

 

[QwikKotaTx]

putting wheels on for 40 years and iv never used either. just gun it up and walk away
time is money

That's great for rotors...

Torque sticks are to prevent over-torquing but final torque should always be done with a torque wrench. I use a 65 ft-lb stick on my impact and finish up with either a beam style Craftsman when traveling or my Proto clicker when at home.

 

[AmishFury]

both... run down with stick to avoid going over, use torque wrench once the wheel is on the ground

 

[SMKS]

In my opinion the best way to use them is to use the lightest torque stick just to snug them down, then use a torque wrench for the final torque on the lug nuts.

That's what I normally did when I worked in a tire shop.

 

[larry_g]

But it doesn't buy you much if you aren't cleaning the mating parts, cleaning and lubricating the threads.

Lubing the threads can be just as dangerous as the guy just hitting the lugs with the air gun and walking. Can you show what auto manufactures spec that threads are to lubed before torquing, specifically lug nuts??

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Furious Filipino]

Not a pro, but I've raced and crewed for many SCCA IT-A and IT-B teams as well as Auto-X on my own dime.

Torque sticks are great at the tire shop, when you are banging wheels on and off all day; they are more to prevent you from over tightening. Your impact has to be calibrated well, and even the local Big-O Tires lowers all the cars down on the ground and they have a one guy running around with a torque wrench doing all the final torque on all the wheels.

 

[zmotorsports]

Torque wrench is far better for installation.

We did some comparisons many years ago and the variation of the torque sticks were too great for my liking. At work we don't use them and I don't even own a set in my home shop/business. Torque wrenches all the way.

Mike.

 

[finn]

This is the reason people have wheels fall off, rotors that are warped prematurely, etc.

My pickup calls for 175 ft lb (F350 Dually). Not sure how you get there without a torque wrench.

I'm pretty sure the spec for my wife's Focus is considerably less.

 

[Adam.C]

Lubing the threads can be just as dangerous as the guy just hitting the lugs with the air gun and walking. Can you show what auto manufactures spec that threads are to lubed before torquing, specifically lug nuts??

lg
no neat sig line

No, not dangerous. Dry and wet torque specs come from industry, not science. The company I work for produces the numbers most people use. Dry values are based on fasteners either still wet with the oil from manufacturing or dry film lube. In no case are "dry" torq values representative of a dirty, corroded lug. Which is why I say "there's no such thing as a dry torque value".

A bit more: The corroded dry fasteners exhibit the stick slip phenomenon to a greater extent than even very lightly oiled fasteners. The effect of stick slip is not at all what mechanics think. They thread corroded fasteners, feeling the friction, and believe that friction helps maintain bolt torque. The opposite is true. Stick slip statistically leads to over and under torqued fasteners with, some studies I've seen reporting 5x the std deviation of lightly lubed samples.

 

[anndel]

Our 3 vehicles have a torque spec of 76 ft-lbs. I use a 65 ft-lb torque stick then follow with a torque wrench for the final.

 

[Adam.C]

Our 3 vehicles have a torque spec of 76 ft-lbs. I use a 65 ft-lb torque stick then follow with a torque wrench for the final.

The torque wrench should move at least a quarter turn

 

[WhiffySpark]

My pickup calls for 175 ft lb (F350 Dually). Not sure how you get there without a torque wrench.

I'm pretty sure the spec for my wife's Focus is considerably less.

I have a torque stick for that

I use torque sticks everyday

By the way, I thought there was no such thing as warped rotors?

 

[QwikKotaTx]

Lubing the threads can be just as dangerous as the guy just hitting the lugs with the air gun and walking. Can you show what auto manufactures spec that threads are to lubed before torquing, specifically lug nuts??

lg
no neat sig line

Incorrect. I have done a bit of research on this and the general consensus is that as long as the mating surface for nut to wheel, aka the cone or tapered seat, is not hit with a lubricant such as anti-seize the only negative aspect could be over-torquing. Typically you would need to reduce your torque by 5 to 10% when using a lubricant. I always use a small dab of anti-seize on wheel studs and other areas that may be exposed to salt air before re-assembly. I have never had a nut come loose when properly torqued.

Manufacturers are doing whatever they can to get vehicles off the assembly line as fast as possible. They are not worried about the lug nuts getting stuck 30k miles later.

 

[maxcarp709]

Thanks for all your responses,folks!I have learned something new.Yay!What I have settled on is this.Torque Sticks only have one application,putting wheels back on vehicles using a calibrated impact gun.A torque wrench has MANY applications.I did a bit of online shopping yesterday,and found New 1/2"Torque wrenches at Amazon for $40-50.That will have to be the subject for a new thread.

 

[Squddle]

We use both at the shop I'm at. First the torque stick, then lower the car and use the torque wrench to snug them up or make sure they are torqued tight enough.

 

[Erampu]

We use both at the shop I'm at. First the torque stick, then lower the car and use the torque wrench to snug them up or make sure they are torqued tight enough.

Squiddle, that approach will tell you if they're torqued tight enough, but it won't tell you if they're over torqued.



I'm a strong proponent of a light tightening with a four-way (barely more than hand tightened), then a torque wrench to set the final torque.

 

[whateg01]

Lubing the threads can be just as dangerous as the guy just hitting the lugs with the air gun and walking. Can you show what auto manufactures spec that threads are to lubed before torquing, specifically lug nuts??

lg
no neat sig line

Yes, that's why so many cylinder heads fly off of cars going down the road - because the bolts were oiled before being installed and torqued. Properly lubricating the threads is the only way to get consistent torque values.

Dave

 

[Adam.C]

Yes, that's why so many cylinder heads fly off of cars going down the road - because the bolts were oiled before being installed and torqued. Properly lubricating the threads is the only way to get consistent torque values.

Dave

Right. Thread lubrication has nothing to do with maintaining bolt torque other than it effects the preload or bolt stretch you achieve when torquing.

If corrosion and grit reduced fasteners coming loose, Pratt and Whitney would be sprinkling Jet engine fasteners with dirt. It's an old wives tale that lubing lugs will cause your wheels to fall off.

 

[QwikKotaTx]

Squiddle, that approach will tell you if they're torqued tight enough, but it won't tell you if they're over torqued.



I'm a strong proponent of a light tightening with a four-way (barely more than hand tightened), then a torque wrench to set the final torque.

I think what he meant was a torque stick rated for less than the lug nuts call for compared to final torquing.

 

[48548]

I have a torque stick for that

I use torque sticks everyday

By the way, I thought there was no such thing as warped rotors?

Drums seem like they wouldn't warp, hahahaha.

 

[Adam.C]

I think what he meant was a torque stick rated for less than the lug nuts call for compared to final torquing.

I have the same concern as the person you quoted. Two issues: If the torque stick is close to the target torque, and the fasteners are dirty, the static friction could be high enough to make the torque wrench click without moving the fastener.

The opposite is also possible. When you use a torque stick, the static friction resists motion, then releases suddenly when the torque builds and the fastener can over rotate, resulting in higher than desired torque. This is called stick slip.

In both cases, the torque wrench would click without moving. And neither case would be torqued accurately.

The best thing to do is clean everything, apply a light film of oil, snug by hand, then torque. If you are going to use a torque stick, I think it's less complicated to just use the right one. If you are using a torque wrench, you must reach the target torque while the wrench is moving, not at the beginning of a ratchet.

 

[Know Wosad]

putting wheels on for 40 years and iv never used either. just gun it up and walk away
time is money

Ever weld a ball joint ? LOL

I'd skip torquing a 4 cyl head before I would skip the round things that try to keep me on the road at 70 mph.
I've seen a wheel come off on two occasions. Nobody was hurt, miraculously. The car may veer off and"only" sustain heavy damage. The bike will killya.
No sticks either. I use a beam wrench that sits hangs by the compressor. Fast and close enough. 90-120 on most things as long as it's even all around.
50-65 on a bike . I ALWAYS look those up.Calipers and rotors too.

 

[TomB19]

I'm still laughing at the post about buzzing lugs on, full nut, with an impact. "gun it up" lmao! Classic!

George was having some fun. It's a classic bit and a terrific piece of humor.

I just did the front wheel bearings on my Jetta and one of the lugs just barely came out with my Milwaukee 2763. The fastener was smoking hot when it came out. Perhaps my car had some tire work done in Pennsylvania.

 

[TomB19]

Hey George... a great follow up would be:

"Having lugs fall off is dangerous so I cross thread them before hitting them with the gun. Never come off."

 

[WhiffySpark]

Alot more people just tap them on with a gun than y'all think. A smoking hot lugnut was probably cross threaded rather than over torqued.

To alot of techs time is money. Using a 4 way plus torque wrench simply take too much time

 

[Strouty]

The torque sticks work much better with PVC air lines.