Torsion Spring Garage Door Problem

[Junkman]

Today, my garage door would only open about a foot, and then it would stop. I have been having problems with this door a lot this winter with it not wanting to close, until I adjusted the down pressure. I got out the ladder, and climbed up to see what was wrong with the torsion springs, since it looked out of place from the ground. I found that the torsion spring was binding on the bottom of the bolt that held the front of the track. I took my time to remove the two bolts, and I determined that the torsion bar had moved on the wall, even though the two bolts that mount it to the wall still appear to be tight. I also noticed that the spring had tightened on the tapered part of the center drum. I am thinking that since this operator has been such a problem in the past, that I should change it to a Liftmaster 5800.
Back story is that it was supposed to be a high lift door originally, but the garage door dealer screwed up and didn't install the correct tracks. When he came back, he added one more section to the original 7' door, and then raised the tracks by adding a section to each side, and then lifted the operator. It always operated OK, but you couldn't open the door by releasing the track and lifting from the bottom. It always would bind on the lift arm.
Couple of questions... Can I install a new low headroom Liftmaster 8500W and remove the top section of the door without readjusting the torsion springs. Has the one torsion spring that has over tightened on the tapered drum damaged and need to be replaced? I have posted pictures so you can see the problems. thanks Junk

 

[PassnThru]

Slide the center support down so the bolts clear the spring? Is the bar straight now or bowed up?

 

[visionguru]

You didn't add any timeline in this. The spring lasts about 10 years. Your springs look rusty, likely never been greased. Have you checked the gear inside the opener?

The bolt shouldn't have anything to do with your problem. The springs wind/unwind to assist the opener.
The opener is not a very complicated device: an electrical motor and a bunch of gears.

A couple of years ago, my garage door opener had the same symptom (only opens 2 feet then stops). It was the gear inside, the plastic gears are grinding against each other, leaving almost a cup of plastic dusts in there, due to lack of lubrication. It was quite easy to replace and cost less than $20.

Then a year later, the spring breaks. I bought a spring from Menards for $30 and replaced it myself in 30min.

Garage door is not hard to maintain or repair. There is no danger when doing the springs. Lubrication is important.

 

[Junkman]

I believe that the bar is slightly bowed upward, based on the pencil mark on the wood that was made when it was originally installed. I am thinking that if I tie a rope to the bar, and have my wife pulling the bar down that I will be able to loosen the two lag bolts and pull it back into place.
Since the original door had an extra section added to it that it doesn't actually need, since it is above top of the opening, should I leave it in place when I install the Liftmaster 8500W? I purchased a Liftmaster 5800 for my back door where my lift is, but it looks like I will need to use it on this door instead. The door is impossible to open when the power goes out because of the angle of the lifting bar and the track.
I am particularly concerned that the spring tightened itself on the drum when the bolt interfered with its turning. Do you see that as a problem? I am hoping not, because I don't feel comfortable messing with torsion springs.
Thanks

 

[Junkman]

You didn't add any timeline in this. The spring lasts about 10 years. Your springs look rusty, likely never been greased. Have you checked the gear inside the opener?

The bolt shouldn't have anything to do with your problem. The springs wind/unwind to assist the opener.
The opener is not a very complicated device: an electrical motor and a bunch of gears.

A couple of years ago, my garage door opener had the same symptom (only opens 2 feet then stops). It was the gear inside, the plastic gears are grinding against each other, leaving almost a cup of plastic dusts in there, due to lack of lubrication. It was quite easy to replace and cost less than $20.

Then a year later, the spring breaks. I bought a spring from Menards for $30 and replaced it myself in 30min.

Garage door is not hard to maintain or repair. There is no danger when doing the springs. Lubrication is important.

The spring is about 3 1/2 years old. The door was installed in '08, and it had a single torsion spring on it that broke September 2017. At that time, I made a post about the broken spring, and got a lot of replies. I had already contracted with a door repairman to fix it, and he showed up the next day. I asked about the high lift drums, and he said that he was changing them to the high lift drums.
Here is that thread for reference...

 

[visionguru]

.....
I am particularly concerned that the spring tightened itself on the drum when the bolt interfered with its turning. Do you see that as a problem? I am hoping not, because I don't feel comfortable messing with torsion springs.
Thanks

The spring wind/unwind as a whole. The bolt is at the very end, seems not a problem.

With two winding bars, the torsion springs are very safe to deal with, because no matter what you do, the spring is limited to the bar and won't fly out. One has to be very creative or stupid to get hurt by a torsion spring.

BTW, I don't think it's a good idea to ask your wife to pull down that spring.

Your door worked fine before, no obvious damage on the springs and tracks, the first suspect should be the opener gears. Either replace the gear or install your new opener.

 

[KANSASBOY]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07J4GB5KY/?tag=atomicindus08-20.

 

[KANSASBOY]

Do you mean liftmaster 8500 ? If it is check the set screws on the main shaft on the left side just look for blue doctors .

 

[PassnThru]

I believe that the bar is slightly bowed upward, based on the pencil mark on the wood that was made when it was originally installed. I am thinking that if I tie a rope to the bar, and have my wife pulling the bar down that I will be able to loosen the two lag bolts and pull it back into place.

You are overthinking this. You can loosen the lag bolts on the center support without danger. They don't keep the tension on the spring. Loosen the lag bolts that hold the center support to the wall just enough so that you can move it by hand yourself - pull it down so the bolts clear the spring and tighten the lag screws. Then take a piece of cardboard and bend it to a 90 degree angle. Slide one end up behind the spring and spray it with your lubricant of choice. Although not officially a lubricant, Wd40 works well.

 

[Junkman]

Thanks for the advise about loosening the screws and pulling it down by hand. I wasn't certain that I could do that easily. I did realize that there was no problem with loosening the screws and pulling it down, just didn't think that I could do it alone.
I am also going to look into keeping the original door operator using that stand off that was recommended above. I will just need to see how much room that I have to move the head backwards. One of the problems is that there is a sewer pipe that crosses the garage ceiling just behind where the door tracks end. This is why I was thinking about using a side mounted door operator.

I purchased a Liftmaster 8500W wall mount garage door opener. I had transposed the 8500 and called it a 5800. I corrected that mistake just now.
I don't know what you mean by "blue doctors", but I don't see anything on the torsion bar other than just grey steel hollow bar. If you are referring to the square headed "bolts" that go into the drum, I believe that they are red. I will go downstairs now and check the color.
The way that the support beam is located down the center of the garage, I will need to install the Liftmaster 8500W on the right hand side of this door, and use a low headroom adapter. I have seen the low headroom adapters on eBay, but I don't know if there is any other hardware that I will need to purchase in order to install it. I am hoping to get this wrapped up quickly and working again to keep the Mrs. happy.

 

[gnpenning]

There is so much bad, wrong and confusing posts on this thread I'm not going to even try cleaning it up.

DO NOT try loosing up the spring mounting lags while the springs are under tension no matter how little you plan to loosen them.

That bolt is NOT causing any appreciable issues. While it shouldn't have been installed that way, it's not your problem. That opener should never have been installed on that door.

A properly balanced and operating door should open and close easily by hand. Questions were left open on the last thread that would help track what is going on now.

You need to get a quality door company to come out and evaluate and repair.

 

[Junkman]

I was only going to loosen the two lag bolts that are in the center where the door operator bar is mounted. I can clearly see that the mount has moved upward, causing the door operator bar bolts to contact the spring. I wouldn't think of dealing with either end unless the tension was off of the springs totally. Are you saying that loosening the center mounting is dangerous?
As for calling a door company, I haven't found any in this area that want to fix someone else's work. That was the problem that I had the last time. The person that installed the new springs was a installer that was out of work at the time that someone recommended.
If you tell me what questions that I left open in the other thread, I will attempt to answer them.
Thanks for all your help.

I just went back down to the garage, to check on the drums. I was incorrect when I said that they weren't changed the last time the spring broke. The installer had changed the drums to high lift drums and replaced the cables.

 

[visionguru]

... Are you saying that loosening the center mounting is dangerous?
.....

My! Please don't do it!!!!

The spring stores lots of tension (especially when the door is at closed position), which is balanced by the weight of the door. Those two bolts were painted RED for a reason. If you loose them without releasing the spring tension, the spring is going to spin violently!

You really need to figure out how the garage door opener works first before doing anything.

 

[firebirdparts]

You are overthinking this. You can loosen the lag bolts on the center support without danger. They don't keep the tension on the spring.

Whoa here. I do think this is the solution, but it is the solution that involves understanding that is absolutely what holds tension on the spring.

 

[Jlbc212]

There is so much bad, wrong and confusing posts on this thread I'm not going to even try cleaning it up.

DO NOT try loosing up the spring mounting lags while the springs are under tension no matter how little you plan to loosen them.

That bolt is NOT causing any appreciable issues. While it shouldn't have been installed that way, it's not your problem. That opener should never have been installed on that door.

A properly balanced and operating door should open and close easily by hand. Questions were left open on the last thread that would help track what is going on now.

You need to get a quality door company to come out and evaluate and repair.

^^^ THIS!!! ... as to torsion springs - torsion springs can be dangerous! I've read way too much misinformation on this forum about torsion springs. Nobody should work on torsion springs without proper training from an experienced garage door mechanic. I know of garage mechanics with years of experience who suffered serious injuries working on torsion springs.

 

[PassnThru]

Look at the third picture. We are talking about loosening the lag bolts that mount the center bracket to the wall. I'm not talking about the spring itself. There will be tension on it so it will want to twist but we are not removing the lag bolts. Just backing them out enough to slide the bracket down.

 

[Tireman]

When I looked at the pics I really didn’t think of loosening the torsion spring bolts. I was thinking sawzall the door opener bolt off at the nut and greasing the torsion spring. Try to open the door and look for other problems.


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[KenC]

Look at the third picture. We are talking about loosening the lag bolts that mount the center bracket to the wall. I'm not talking about the spring itself. There will be tension on it so it will want to twist but we are not removing the lag bolts. Just backing them out enough to slide the bracket down.

I'm with you on this. Just a 1/4 turn will be enough, especially if the OP has a nice pry bar to move it down. Hook the bar under the opener mount and over the center bracket. Slide it down and snug the mount bolts. Now the important part: install more mount bolts in the slots to keep it from happening again! Don't rely on the bolt head friction on the slot sides alone.

And, the angle of the opener to door rod is wrong, that's why it won't open manually. Longer rod, higher mount if possible should fix that.

 

[Junkman]

Fixed... the bolts came loose in the wood, and was able to remove them, realign the torsion bar, and put it all back together. Greased the opener chain, and the tracks, and it now works smoothly. Thanks guys... Junk

 

[HotrodHR]

Next purchase needs to be a Liftmaster... I'd love to see how the tracks are set up.

BTW, I installed a highlift kit on my shop door, tracks, new drum, springs and a Liftmaster.

Visit DDM Garage Doors for instructions, tips, correct parts etc.
https://ddmgaragedoors.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwO_AxKDa5wIVUb7ACh3v8QkwEAAYAiAAEgIFfPD_BwE