Township limits to DIY electrical work?

[Naq]

I've been thinking of finishing the interior of my 24x23 detached garage for the past couple years and I just starting doing some research to make it a reality. I tend to do most things myself or with the help of friends and only hire out when the job is labor intensive. One of the first things I've come across while browsing the local zoning and permitting requirements is this:

"Permits Required (Additional $4 UCC charge on every permit) - Examples
...
Electrical Work (Note 3)"
...

Notes:

...
3. Electrical work must be done by an Electrician registered by the Township; electrical work must be inspected by recognized third-party inspection agency.
..."

I understand the need for 3rd party inspection if the local inspector is not an electrical person, but I'm not sure what the limits are to what I can DIY. My next step is to contact the township to see who I need to talk to and work with to make improvements to my property, but I thought I would see if anyone else has run into this issue.

 

[Steevo]

What country are you in? What state or other regional area?

 

[Naq]

Updated location. I'm in south east PA in a suburban township outside Philadelphia. Thanks.

 

[Gary S]

From the way it is written, it sounds like you cannot do any electrical work yourself unless you are a licensed electrician. A permit is required for the electrical work, and you can bet that with this law in place, they will not issue a permit unless it is issued to a licensed electrician. If that is the law in place, there isn't much you can do about it. You can work with your township officials to get the law changed, but don't expect any success.

I have the same situation here. My city requires that all electrical work be done by licensed electricians.

If you know any electricians personally, you might be able to get them to work with you. They probably have some leeway in allowing you to do some of the preliminary non-critical work (digging trenches, etc) and they then inspect and finish it to code. If not, you are going to have to just bid the job out and pay the professional to do the job right.

 

[Naq]

Thanks for the feedback Gary! The situation you describe sounds like what I feared. I read some more of the municipal code which basically said if it doesn't plug into a wall or screw into a bulb socket you're not allowed to touch it. The website provided a list of 100 or so contractors that are registered with the township so maybe 1 will want to work with me.

Perhaps becoming an electrical contractor myself and paying the $75 to register with the township would be cheaper than paying someone to install and wire EVERYTHING. Maybe a 240V, 50A RV/welding style "extension cord" run to a temporary setup will work until I do some more planning.

 

[Ironcrow]

You might want to check the law a little more closely. In my area it sounds the same as yours except there is an exemption for owner/builder. That is, I can do my own work, but nothing for anyone else. Still subject to building inspector's sign-off.

 

[Naq]

Good to know Ironcrow. That's what I was hoping for and my buddy said the same thing. I'm sure the AHJ will be able to enlighten me when I can make contact.

 

[arroberts]

Could be worse. There is a city to the northwest of Columbus OH that according to their code books, a permit is required to plug in any appliance that draws over either 5 or 8 amps.

 

[tdkkart]

Check your state code also. Local jurisdictions cannot enact codes etc more stringent than state codes. Our state electrical code states
"The provisions of this chapter shall not prohibit an owner of property from performing work on the owner's principal residence, if such residence is an existing dwelling rather than new construction."

The state says you can, yet the locals aren't gonna tell you this, and the work still requires an inspection, so you can see where that's gonna go.

 

[Roots]

Check your state code also. Local jurisdictions cannot enact codes etc more stringent than state codes. Our state electrical code states

Local codes certainly can and do exceed state requirements.

 

[Terry454]

You might want to check the law a little more closely. In my area it sounds the same as yours except there is an exemption for owner/builder. That is, I can do my own work, but nothing for anyone else. Still subject to building inspector's sign-off.

My city used to allow owner to do electrical work subject to inspection, but they had so much trouble with hack jobs they now require a licensed electrician on ALL work -- or at least that is the well publicized ordinance now. I don't know if they allow any wiggle room or not since I haven't had to try lately. Best bet would be to go in yourself and ask the code enforcement authority – not the secretary. You will be well ahead to talk to the real authority and not some pencil pusher.

Terry

 

[Naq]

Yeah I'll just have to find out. Thanks. From the light reading I've done, PA has adopted the 2009 IRC which includes the 2008 NEC by reference. As a commonwealth instead of a state it seems PA often leaves the final word (and whim) to the most local authority.

I know a lot of people dodge permitting. I try to stay above board as best I can and I've already received letters from the township because people are overly interested in the goings on at my property.

 

[ozyborn]

If in doubt, then contact a lawyer to get the correct wording and implementation of the law in your area. Then follow the law.

For my, I had the city try their crud. It has the same type of laws. I kicked them off the property and told them to go look at the map. City boundary is the other side of the road. I am in county, not city limits . My county says I can do it myself and get it inspected.

 

[grenade inspector]

^ Don't you love Pa's convoluted laws? When it comes to things like that I've chosen to just go ahead and ignore them.

 

[D KRAGER]

You poor bastards. If I had to get an inspection every time I wanted to wipe my ***, I'd shoot myself.

So if you just want to add an outlet in the garage, you have to call for an inspection? Seriously, does anyone actually do that?

Only inspection I had to do was septic system. We had no codes. I guess codes have a time and place, but this **** gets out of hand in my estimation.

 

[Naq]

...
So if you just want to add an outlet in the garage, you have to call for an inspection? Seriously, does anyone actually do that?
...

I haven't called yet, but the way its written if I want to change a single duplex in an existing 4x4 box to a quad I would have to hire an electrician who has paid the fee to register in my township. The electrician would pull the $50 permit, install the outlet, then hire a 3rd party inspector to come in and sign off on the work...

 

[gatchel]

Sounds like another money maker to me. That's Great. Instead of trimming the fat (literally and figuratively) in local government, lets pass more fees on to the homeowners on top of their already too high taxes.

I learned the hard way. If you try to do the "right" thing and follow the rules to a "T" by asking questions like "Do I need a permit for this" to your local township it is only going to cost you more money.

Close the door, do the work, get it inspected.

It's always better to beg forgiveness than to ask for permission.

 

[ixlr8]

I lived in Mass, for too long, I wanted to replace a dishwasher in the house I just bought. It was $200 for the dishwasher, $85 in permits, (electrical and plumbing) and work could only be done by licensed electrician and plumber. Electrician wanted $160 to pull permit and do the work, I had to pay for permit. The plumber wanted $180 to pull permit and do the work, again I had to pay for permit. Store selling the dishwasher would not deliver until I showed permits, or a copy. I sold the place 8 years later with same leaking dishwasher. Glad I no longer live in MA.

 

[Naq]

...
Close the door, do the work, get it inspected.

It's always better to beg forgiveness than to ask for permission.

Thats actually one of my favorite aphorisms. Apparently the penalty for getting caught is to pay 2x the normal permit fees. I know I need to tread lightly because someone has already reported me for "Running an illegal motorcycle repair shop" because my buddy and I were working on our bikes in the garage.

...
I sold the place 8 years later with same leaking dishwasher. Glad I no longer live in MA.

Thats hilarious. I can't believe the store was in on it too! I guess I got away with plumbing the new washer and a cheap craigslist gas dryer.

 

[6768rogues]

Here in western NY, the law requires a permit to be pulled for modifications or extensions of electrical systems, and an inspection is required by a third party inspection firm. Everyone I know closes their door and does whatever they want without any permits. An electrician is not required in my town, but some cities do require licensed professionals to do the work. That is one of the reasons I don't live there.

 

[ket-tek]

You might want to check the law a little more closely. In my area it sounds the same as yours except there is an exemption for owner/builder. That is, I can do my own work, but nothing for anyone else. Still subject to building inspector's sign-off.

Same here, our code reads similar to this.

The Owner of a Residential single family home that lives in it the dwelling as their primary residence can diy electrical, except they cannot install the meterbase or connect the meterbase feed to the panel that part must be done by an electrician.

Anything commercial, rental, multifamily, etc must be an electrician even if you are the owner.

Same here with plumbing, the owner can do all the plumbing except the sewer connection at the street.

 

[Nick DL]

DO you plan on having any of the work that you plan doing inspected? DO you plan on moving ever? If the answer is yes to either of these then you might want to go through the hoops. However, you could get lucky and not have any problems. It does really depend on the township. I used to live in Falls and they have some of the same crazy rules.

I wanted to install a shed some years ago so I contacted the township to find out the rules, of course nothing was to specific in writing. I made up my plans and drew everything up and submitted them to the township. The township gets back to me with a No based on one area of setback that they did not tell me about. Needless to say, I went through with getting the shed. Well 2 years later I get a letter in the mail about an illegal shed, I could face fines. Fortunately I installed the shed based on the primary setbacks that were listed, not the one they told me about. I had the max size shed with the proper setbacks for the property line. The township was originally saying that the shed was to close to my deck. Well I ended up just filing for the permit which was only $54. I was sweating it since I was already denied once. The inspector came out, looked at it said nice work on the concrete pad. We chatted for a little bit and and he handed me the permit, never said a word about the electrical work that was done. So, even though I did the work without the permit, I was not fined. I would have been fined if I did not follow up on their letter.

We just moved from Falls in August and again had to have the inspectors out as a part of the real estate transaction. They were really cool and did not bust chops, they just wanted the safety issues taken care of, nothing was wrong with the house, just the new **** that is added over the years.

I would just do the work & take my chances. As for the neighbors, tell them to mind their own business. Better yet, start calling the township on them for every little thing that they do.

 

[brewchief]

Perhaps becoming an electrical contractor myself and paying the $75 to register with the township would be cheaper than paying someone to install and wire EVERYTHING. Maybe a 240V, 50A RV/welding style "extension cord" run to a temporary setup will work until I do some more planning.

Here in MI the requirements to take the master electricians test are as follows,
six years of electrical work experience covering 12,000 hours
two years of work experience as a licensed journeyman electrician
proof that you are 22 years of age or older
To become a contractor you must either be a master or have one working for you, your state may vary but I don't see this being a cheaper route.

What I would do is find an electrician who will work with you and let you do some of the grunt work, very few electricians like digging trenches.

Have the electrician power up a sub panel and run one light circuit and one plug circuit off of it and have it inspected, after that close the door and add other circuits as needed.

 

[Naq]

DO you plan on having any of the work that you plan doing inspected? DO you plan on moving ever? If the answer is yes to either of these then you might want to go through the hoops. However, you could get lucky and not have any problems. It does really depend on the township. I used to live in Falls and they have some of the same crazy rules.

...

I would just do the work & take my chances. As for the neighbors, tell them to mind their own business. Better yet, start calling the township on them for every little thing that they do.

Good feedback. I have contact info now, just have to wait out the holiday. I would prefer to have the important parts inspected and legit. Really seems to come down to the people in charge (doesn't it always).

Here in MI the requirements to take the master electricians test are as follows,
six years of electrical work experience covering 12,000 hours
two years of work experience as a licensed journeyman electrician
proof that you are 22 years of age or older
To become a contractor you must either be a master or have one working for you, your state may vary but I don't see this being a cheaper route.

What I would do is find an electrician who will work with you and let you do some of the grunt work, very few electricians like digging trenches.

Have the electrician power up a sub panel and run one light circuit and one plug circuit off of it and have it inspected, after that close the door and add other circuits as needed.

Yeah, I was just being tongue in cheek to get a rise outta the electrical guys. I have a ton of respect for the people that are committed to that kinda time and effort. I'm a licensed engineer in industry so I get to work with electricians and utility companys all over the country. Just not in my township, and I usually don't have to deal with "dwelling units". Most guys are easy to work with once they realize you're on the same page and not just trying to design a system from your ivory tower. Great ideas. That's exactly the way I'm leaning.

Thanks for all the input guys!

 

[BFBOB]

In my area, St. Louis County, MO, OWNERS are allowed to do their own electrical work, but must first pass a test, and get all the same inspections and permits a contractor would. Talk to your officials; there may be exceptions buried in all the verbiage.

 

[Ironcrow]

... Everyone I know closes their door and does whatever they want without any permits. ..

Yup. They pass a stupid law, they get what they deserve. If anybody ever says anything, the answer is; "I don't know, it's always been that way." If the plans on record with the town (if there are any) are different add; "I guess your plans are inaccurate."

 

[kbs2244]

Go over your provided list of contractors or even find a list of linsed electrions in your area.
See if you can find one retired or out of work that is willing to “supervise” you as you do the work.
I have gotten some good advise from guys with lots of experience this way and they liked the idea of having a job where they could hand off the heavy stuff.