Tracer wire for water/elecrical?

[MountPilot]

I am digging the trench tomorrow and burying 250 feet of 2-2-4-6 for service to my shop and 400 feet of 1" Poly Tubing to bring water to the shop and pasture. I have researched a little on here but could not find a definitive answer.

What size/type of wire is typically used as a locator/tracer?

I was thinking 14 gauge copper with underground coating, but did not see anything at Lowes/HD that fit the bill and the State Electric supply rep said they don't have anything (which I find hard to believe). Is there a standard that you guys have used that works well?

in addition, I plan to lay caution tape 6" or so down along the whole length, but would prefer to have a line for locating in the future as well

any advice/links/pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[rlitman]

Underground coating? THWN (often also marked THHN) is rated for use in wet locations.
Go with something solid, not stranded.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Never heard of anyone burying a tracer wire, but it is not a bad idea. Some people bury a CAUTION tape about 1-2' under the surface.

 

[Rookie2]

For your own use I think 14 THHN will work, I've only had to install special wire with a real thick insulation for gas line because it had to be to code.

Water line ,correct ? Not needed on the electric line.

 

[Norcal]

PG&E uses 10 or 12 AWG insulated wire as a tracer for their plastic gas lines. No reason why the OP could not do the same.

 

[rlitman]

Never heard of anyone burying a tracer wire, but it is not a bad idea. Some people bury a CAUTION tape about 1-2' under the surface.

Yeah, it is common practice when burying non-conductive materials, for future locating. Yes, caution tape (preferably tape that is marked in a way that identifies the nature of what is buried under it), should be buried at least 6" above the buried line.

PG&E uses 10 or 12 AWG insulated wire as a tracer for their plastic gas lines. No reason why the OP could not do the same.

Good grief, it isn't carrying current. It's just there to act as a radio antenna. 16 gauge would be overkill.

 

[MountPilot]

Thanks for the input.

I may just go with the 14 THHN wire for the sections that are only plastic pipe. I am burying everything 2' deep so electric lines should be located easily on their own.

Now that I'm thinking through it a little more, I may just run some UF wire to my pasture fence for future Energizer or general utility outlet. At least I may get more use out of the wire than just sitting in the ground

 

[Fishplate]

Never heard of anyone burying a tracer wire, but it is not a bad idea. Some people bury a CAUTION tape about 1-2' under the surface.

The caution tape we buried was actually conductive. Serves both purposes.

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,.... I've seen tracer wires run along side gas lines,...

I've seen tracer wire run along water lines,....

Ain't never seen a tracer wire run along side wires, as the conductor wires will do the same thing as the tracer wire, only better, 'cause it's bigger,.....

 

[djjsr]

I had a 2" water main installed about 5' deep x 60' long. They used 12 gauge thhn and just taped it to the poly line in a few places.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

#2 AL @ 250'? :eek What loads do u have? @ 50a the voltage drop will be just over 3%.

 

[MountPilot]

#2 AL @ 250'? :eek What loads do u have? @ 50a the voltage drop will be just over 3%.

The distance should be close to 220ft, I added a little extra to the order in case I encounter problems with the trenching. I will be using a 100 amp sub panel in the shop with 14 fixtures of 2 4 ft T8 LEDs and a a bunch of 20amp outlets on several circuits for misc hand tools, table saw, compressor, table saw, etc and a few 220 for a future welder, heater, or compressor. I don't intend to use them all at once.

I had originally wanted to up the wire size, but my electrician talked me out of it. And the local inspectors are good with my plan from conversations thus far.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Why did your EC talk u out of it?

I wouldnt run more than 50-60a max.

What size welder and compressor? Any AC or other large loads?

Even 220' is long for #2.

And #2 al has a max ampacity of 90a in this application.

Dont forget to isolate the neutral bar in the sub and 2 ground rods. U may need a ground bar kit also, sold separately.

 

[Pwrgeek]

#2 AL @ 220' is probably not going to do what you want. At the end of that feeder (not including any of the wiring downstream of the sub or upstream of your current panel) a 5hp motor is going to give you about a 20% voltage dip on starting. I would be surprised if a 7.5 would start at all as it would probably just kick out the motor protection. At any rate you can expect the lights to dim noticeably any time any motor starts in the shop. If you have a compressor of any size it's probably going to be well beyond the Westinghouse limit of irritation flicker curve.


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[MountPilot]

So what would be the suggested wire for a 100amp over 220'?

Wyliesdiesels: right now I just have a 1.7HP 33gallon compressor and I do not own a welder yet. Thinking of starting with Hobart 140 or similar 120v unit and then upgrading down the road as skills improve. No other large loads that I can anticipate right now.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

2/0-2/0-2/0-1 AL MHF would be perfect.

If u keep the load to no more than 80a u could use 1/0 AL....

 

[JDMopar]

I wouldn't use anything less than 2/0, and I would put that in 2" pvc all the way. If you ever have to upgrade the panel, you could pull the 2/0 out and pull 4/0 back in without having to dig it all in again. Ok, I'll admit it....I'm bad to swat flies with a bazooka!

 

[Fast Orange]

The "caution" tape is available in a traceable version-might be more expensive than a spool of wire,but serves both purposes...

 

[myredracer]

#2 AL @ 250'? :eek What loads do u have? @ 50a the voltage drop will be just over 3%.

Yes... I would say #2 is far too small.

The OP should do a voltage drop calculation pdq otherwise could have a big problem. Don't forget that motorized equipment has a large inrush current on startup (up to 6 times FLA) and can be hard on the motors. Welders can also have an inrush current. At the very least can end up with annoying light flicker.

I also come up with a min. of #1/0 for a load of 80 amps and 3% voltage drop (as allowed by code) and would also say go at least one size larger. Have you done a load calc. that would include all the equip. you anticipate plus allowing for electric heat (if thinking about that)?

A voltage drop calc. should take into account the voltage at the source (house panel) and how stable that is. For ex., it can drop during the summer with running air conditioning and worse still if all your neighbors are doing the same. The max. voltage drop should also not exceed 5% from the start of the feeder run to the point of utilization (at a power tool, etc.) so if you have a long branch circuit run and an extension cord, you could exceed that.

Good suggestion to use conduit. Thinwall DBII "duct" would be fine but may need a sand bed to prevent damage (depends on your native soil conditions). The min. available size in this is 2". Max. number of bends total is 4 x 90 degrees and if a straight run with a 90 up at each end, not a concern and makes for an easy pull.

Tracer wire on gas lines is common. #14 insulated is all you need as it just needs to carry a tracer signal on the wire. Just make sure the backfill isn't full of rocks that can damage it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

....I also come up with a min. of #1/0 for a load of 80 amps and 3% voltage drop (as allowed by code) and would also say go at least one size larger. Have you done a load calc. that would include all the equip. you anticipate plus allowing for electric heat (if thinking about that)?

The NEC ONLY recommends/does NOT require a certain max amount of VD...

 

[MountPilot]

Thanks for all of the input. I will be picking up the 2/0 tomorrow before work and laying everything the the trench tomorrow evening.

I dug over 400' of 24" deep with a walk behind ditch witch so I did not want to go through that a second time...and I discovered that the previous owner did not run the electrical wire with the water line (about 20' apart and several random bends). So the line got fractured and I was able to replace a bunch of plumbing in the house that cracked when the line pulled from the trench over 25' away. Tired and sore but was able to fix a bunch of poor workmanship from previous owners...gotta love 100year old houses!