Trane vs Lennox heat pumps
- Thread starter Nimonic
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sms1974
Well-known member
Re: Trane vs Lennox heat pumps?
Trane and American Standard are the same units come off the same assembly line and carry the same warranties... American Standard can often be bought at a better price than a Trane unit. I wouldn't buy anything else in a heat pump
Trane and American Standard are the same units come off the same assembly line and carry the same warranties... American Standard can often be bought at a better price than a Trane unit. I wouldn't buy anything else in a heat pump
Trane vs Lennox heat pumps (vs Carrier)
Need a new 4-ton unit as my ~25 yr old Carrier is about done.
Looking at mid level units (not builder level or uber expensive signatuire series).
Who's da best?
Thanks!
(Mods, I have the same post in the heating and AC section, but think I may get more traffic here. Feel free to delete the twin if necessary.)
Need a new 4-ton unit as my ~25 yr old Carrier is about done.
Looking at mid level units (not builder level or uber expensive signatuire series).
Who's da best?
Thanks!
(Mods, I have the same post in the heating and AC section, but think I may get more traffic here. Feel free to delete the twin if necessary.)
Last edited:
IndyGarage
Well-known member
Just my opinion, but I personally think HVAC technology has gone backward in that 25 years.
If you buy new, you'll get a cfc free refrigerant that will require a huge condensor and evaporator just to give the same 4 tons as your old one. And of course you will pay for all that extra metal to be fabricated.
You'll probably get some advanced motor controls that will last about 10 years. You'll get multi speed fans and compressor.
You'll end up spending lots of money to get a very slight energy advantage over your old system overall. It's very difficult to get real data comparing old systems to new ones. Those "efficiency" numbers are so easy to mess with.
I'm fixing my old ones until I can't fix them anymore.
As far as brands, both Lennox and Trane are well respected.
If you buy new, you'll get a cfc free refrigerant that will require a huge condensor and evaporator just to give the same 4 tons as your old one. And of course you will pay for all that extra metal to be fabricated.
You'll probably get some advanced motor controls that will last about 10 years. You'll get multi speed fans and compressor.
You'll end up spending lots of money to get a very slight energy advantage over your old system overall. It's very difficult to get real data comparing old systems to new ones. Those "efficiency" numbers are so easy to mess with.
I'm fixing my old ones until I can't fix them anymore.
As far as brands, both Lennox and Trane are well respected.
hippie2cams
Well-known member
Re: Trane vs Lennox heat pumps?
I have a Lennox heat pump in my garage and I love it, keeps the humidity out and nice and cool in the heat of summer. also nice and comfy in winter although that only last about a month sometimes a week
I have a Lennox heat pump in my garage and I love it, keeps the humidity out and nice and cool in the heat of summer. also nice and comfy in winter although that only last about a month sometimes a week
Bobdog
Well-known member
I'm in the trade and I'm not a big fan of Lennox products. Biggest problem is the coils leak like sieves. Don't know much about Trane, we don't see much of it anymore.
Mr. Brooks
Well-known member
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- Dec 11, 2012
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I just installed the Trane xr17 Heat pump and the xl20 ,I believe, handler, good so far. We will see when winter gets here.
Rockhead261
Well-known member
How about Trane wrecks?
It's more about the installer than the equipment. Both brands are fine.
Bobdog
Well-known member
Not always.
Not that long ago I would have agreed with Rockhead. But my more recent experience would go along with Bobdog unfortunately.
I'm a small HVAC business. I install a lot of equipment for a small company. From 1999 to roughly 2006 I had a total of 10 hours warranty work. From 2006 on I have done somewhere between 700 and 800 hours of warranty work. I was selling York in the beginning, I would advise steering clear of York or any of their re-badged equipment. Coleman, Fraiser Johnston, Luxaire etc etc. It's got to be the worst equipment on the market.
I switched to Frigidaire and Westinghouse which are both Nordyne. Had a lot fewer problems, but still too many for me to continue selling them.
I'm currently selling Comfortmaker which is now re-badged Carrier. I'm experiencing some coil leaks and a lot of TXV failures, some bad on start up and some fail after running a short time. A lot of these issues are showing up in most brands since the TXV's are made by other companies and are being used by most equipment brands. Recently it came out that Copeland who makes the majority of the resi compressors added some kind of additive to their oil that's fowling the TXV's.
I literally don't want to continue in this business if this stuff doesn't get straightened out. I'd switch brands again, but I literally don't know another contractor that will recommend the brand they are selling.
^ ^ ^ Sad state of affairs, as rush to "lower costs" has only led to poor workmanship.
I've got 20 yr old Lennox 90% efficient furnace which is fine but leaking A-coil on A/C is on it's last leg. Either spend money for 1 lb of freon each year, or $5,000 for whole "new" system. Friend of mine who owns HVAC company tried sealer in the A/C system and seems to keep lost freon at 1 lb per year.
I've got 20 yr old Lennox 90% efficient furnace which is fine but leaking A-coil on A/C is on it's last leg. Either spend money for 1 lb of freon each year, or $5,000 for whole "new" system. Friend of mine who owns HVAC company tried sealer in the A/C system and seems to keep lost freon at 1 lb per year.
I don't want to get too far off topic.....But I'm now replacing York systems I put in 5 years ago. It's too the point I have zero faith in the replacement coils, so when they are out of warranty it just doesn't make sense if the part has to be paid for.
So hows this: Installed York system for a customer. Evap coil leaks. I replace the coil under warranty. The new evap coil leaks. I replace it again under warranty. Now just outside of warranty the condenser coil has failed. My cost on the coil is $700+.
I replace the entire system with Comfortmaker for a very unhappy customer at a hugely discounted rate.....2 weeks later the TXV fails.
I despise Lemonix, only way that I like them is when am scrapping them out, but a hatred of Trane comes out every spring when I have to clean the coil on one because of the poor design, strangely another Trane commercial unit is a dream to clean but has already had the indoor fan motor, fan delay relay & pressure switch fail in a few short years.
A comment sort of in line with Mike007, a friend of mine who does a lot of ice machines was telling of issues with Hoshizaki & Manitowoc brands they are being made in China & the Chinese copper tubing has been developing pin hole leaks, in the past those brands were the best ice machines on the market.
A comment sort of in line with Mike007, a friend of mine who does a lot of ice machines was telling of issues with Hoshizaki & Manitowoc brands they are being made in China & the Chinese copper tubing has been developing pin hole leaks, in the past those brands were the best ice machines on the market.
I've worked for a lennox dealer for almost 18 years now, are they 100 % trouble free? Nope but neither are any of the other brands, a lot comes down to the installer but if something is junk even the best install won't fix it.
pseudorealityx
Well-known member
Re: Trane vs Lennox heat pumps?
Anything from the the big manufacturers will be fine if installed and maintained.
The bigger issue is that your current system is an R-22 system, and everything is now R-410a, which is not a direct crossover. You'll likely need to get a new indoor unit as well.
And since you're in Austin, consider something with a 2 speed compressor on the heat pump as it allows humidity control quite a bit better than a single speed.
Anything from the the big manufacturers will be fine if installed and maintained.
The bigger issue is that your current system is an R-22 system, and everything is now R-410a, which is not a direct crossover. You'll likely need to get a new indoor unit as well.
And since you're in Austin, consider something with a 2 speed compressor on the heat pump as it allows humidity control quite a bit better than a single speed.
CWO4GUNNER
Well-known member
Re: Trane vs Lennox heat pumps?
THIS ONE
James-W
Well-known member
Re: Trane vs Lennox heat pumps?
Both are pretty big name companies so I would think either one would work out just fine for you. Wouldn't hurt to shop around and see which one you can get the best deal with. Just be sure whoever installs it is a reputable person and not some "fly by night" guy who has difficulty even spelling "heat pump".
Both are pretty big name companies so I would think either one would work out just fine for you. Wouldn't hurt to shop around and see which one you can get the best deal with. Just be sure whoever installs it is a reputable person and not some "fly by night" guy who has difficulty even spelling "heat pump".
OK so it turns out that all Trane and American Standards are using all aluminum coils whereas carrier/Bryant and others tried it and went back to the more expensive copper. Also Trane uses a bottle brush style coil fin whereas Carrier and others use the conventional fins that can be combed back to shape if they get smushed.
So now I'm a little wary of Trane.
Anyone have opinions about Carrier? I know my current coil lasted 23 years.
So now I'm a little wary of Trane.
Anyone have opinions about Carrier? I know my current coil lasted 23 years.
HICKS
Well-known member
Lennox is garbage, I hated servicing Lennox. ****** burner design, ****** cabinets, ****** blower placement. I hate, hate, hate Lennox. I love my Trane 410a split system. I have a 'furry' cond. coil, and Ive never had any problems with it.
kc-steve
Well-known member
I was just wondering if heat pumps work at all in super cold weather.
Steve
Steve
HICKS
Well-known member
No. Usually you have gas, or electric heat as back up.
Yeah, heat strips in my case. But for all the time that it's cold enough for a heat pump, but not too cold, it's way more efficient. Seeing as I'm in Austin, TX, heat pumps make sense.
I have no gas in my area, so it's all electric for me. Pure heat strips is $$$. I've had $500+ heating bills in past winters with my current heat strip set-up..
incorrect
I can pull up more data than you could read in a month on the fact that the newer systems do not need backup heat.
Full size units and mini-splits are performing efficiently well below 0.
You appear to be in the trade, and I have a bone to pick with people in the trade who haven't starting recommending these things yet, mostly because I had to do all the research on my own lol
Air source heat pumps are just going to get more and more popular. They've crossed that incredibly important line that allows them to be the sole source of heat.
bacr619
Active member
I would not sell you either one both are ****. Lennox poor design and Trane uses aluminum tube and fins. Get Carrier or Rheem.
ALL brands are having issues. Don't believe what the salesman will tell you. They have all suffered a lot of leaks in copper coils amongst other issues. That's why the industry is switching to aluminum. I've been told despite all the BS and excuses, the issue boils down to outsourcing. They tell me they cannot buy domestic copper tubing to manufacture coils.
York is the new Goodman. It's the cheapest (at least around here) and the "quality" is horrendous. The warranty issues I've suffered are nothing short of unbelievable.
York is the new Goodman. It's the cheapest (at least around here) and the "quality" is horrendous. The warranty issues I've suffered are nothing short of unbelievable.
pseudorealityx
Well-known member
Where is this 'full size unit' that performs efficiently 'well below 0'? And does it perform well until it goes into defrost mode? And by 'efficiently', do you mean the COP is still pretty decent?
My understanding is that if you have a leak with one of the aluminum coils it's junk, whereas you can solder/braze a copper coil.
Also heard that the aluminum coils have to be joined to the copper feed by some sort of weird epoxy joint.
Reason that the Trane aluminum coil leaks any less up front is because there are something like 10X fewer unions/joints. It's all formed by bending.
Seriously considering Carrier/Bryant now.
Also heard that the aluminum coils have to be joined to the copper feed by some sort of weird epoxy joint.
Reason that the Trane aluminum coil leaks any less up front is because there are something like 10X fewer unions/joints. It's all formed by bending.
Seriously considering Carrier/Bryant now.
Carrier is now using aluminum coils. The recent issues with the copper coils cannot be fixed by brazing.
I just got a quote from a Carrier guy yesterday and he was touting copper coils. He said everyone followed Trane to Aluminum some years ago and then went back to copper, even though it's more expensive.
(Shrug) I dunno. That's why I'm here.
(Shrug) I dunno. That's why I'm here.
After seeing your post I called my Carrier distributer to make sure I'm offering you accurate info. He said all the new Carrier coils are aluminum. Maybe your contractor is offering you an aftermarket coil?
txst
Well-known member
Built correctly, an aluminum coil is better than copper in terms of corrosion and leaks. I used to work for both Carrier and Trane in their R&D departments. A Trane system has much fewer joints in their outdoor coils, and their Spine Fin coils do perform very well in a heat pump application. Lennox started switching over to LG scroll compressors, which were not as robust as the Copeland/Trane compressors when I got out of the industry a few years ago, but I'm not sure about now. Trane uses very few of their reciprocating compressors anymore, which were extremely reliable. Ingersoll Rand bought Trane several years ago and has no idea how to run an HVAC company. Trane is a shell of their former self.
I agree with what many have said - there has been so much cost reduction and offshore vendors in everyone's equipment, that the systems today are not what they used to be, but the installation is extremely important, especially when converting from R22 to R410a.
I agree with what many have said - there has been so much cost reduction and offshore vendors in everyone's equipment, that the systems today are not what they used to be, but the installation is extremely important, especially when converting from R22 to R410a.