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Treating steel to make a protective rust coating

Poodlehead

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Hi Folks,

I just had a couple of 4' wide x 44' long bridges built to put over a creek so I can get my tractor to the back half of the property. I think I remember hearing about some process of treating steel so it rusts on the surface, but no further, leaving a protective barrier on the steel, but I can't find anything. If so, I'd like to treat these bridges before they are placed over the creek to create the same protection.

The attached pic is the bridges and where they are going... Can anyone advise or point me in the right direction?

TIA,
Pat
 
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PlanB

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I was under the impression that it was a particular steel alloy that had that property... could easily be wrong though.
 

Wiz02

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I was under the impression that it was a particular steel alloy that had that property... could easily be wrong though.
I remember as a kid commenting on seeing rusty looking overpasses to my Dad who said the same thing, that it was a special steel alloy that created a protective barrier of oxidation and did not continue to rust.

A quick check with AI Copilot and the old man was right (not that I had any doubts). The alloy is Corten steel.

"This type of steel is designed to form a stable rust-like patina that actually protects the steel from further corrosion. The patina acts as a protective layer, preventing moisture from penetrating the steel and causing further rust."

 
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Poodlehead

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Thank you thank you thank you!

Looks like your father hit the nail on the head and your search abilities reconfirmed it. I won't waste any more time 'prepping' the steel and just place it 'as is' and not look back...

I bet that special steel cost a significant amount more and I would have probably opted out anyway.

Thanks again,
Gomer 😉
 

Torque&Recoil

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Yes, Corten. There is an outdoor music center in the Akron area built of that material in the 1970s. Never painted. Looks like brown rust, but the outer surface protects the core.

Which doesn't help the OP solve his bridge rust problem. Well, there are lots of methods to try. I would spray on an epoxy primer like DP90. It cures fairly hard. I am sure others will have many other good suggestions.
 

jblnut

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Shipping containers are generally made from that steel. I’d have to see if I can scrounge up a picture but I’ve been across a few shorter bridges that have been made from shipping containers before. They had a support system from the top of the open ends to the bottom of the center to help carry the loads but most weren’t heavier than ATV’s.

I’d place them and not look back. Give them the ol’ “is it still solid” jump once in a while and if it doesn’t cave in I’d say go across lol
 

Chris_Hamilton

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Hi Folks,

I just had a couple of 4' wide x 44' long bridges built to put over a creek so I can get my tractor to the back half of the property. I think I remember hearing about some process of treating steel so it rusts on the surface, but no further, leaving a protective barrier on the steel, but I can't find anything. If so, I'd like to treat these bridges before they are placed over the creek to create the same protection.

The attached pic is the bridges and where they are going... Can anyone advise or point me in the right direction?

TIA,
Pat
Rust is rust. Yes surface rust "protects" it to a point but once is starts it never actually stops. Just don't think the rust means it's protected. It's slowly continuously corroding.

There are different types of acid mixtures to do what you are asking about. Small scale a place like Sculpt Nouveau (https://sculptnouveau.com) sells various patinas in spray bottles, but on a large scale like your project it would be expensive to go that route. Would be worth checking the site out though to see what various patinas would look like on steel. They have color charts that show the effects. https://sculptnouveau.com/pages/color-charts

I've got a chart somewhere on how to make your own patina using various acids. I'll try to find it. One I know off the type of my head is a 50/50 mix of muriatic acid and distilled water. That will rust it almost immediately.

Another option you may consider is to use a phosphoric acid treatment like Ospho. It will give a patina'ed look to the metal (not rusty though) and will actually protect the metal from corroding because of the phosphate film it leaves when dry. Re-apply every few years and it will stay protected.
 

RoninB4

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Rust is rust. Yes surface rust "protects" it to a point but once is starts it never actually stops. Just don't think the rust means it's protected. It's slowly continuously corroding.
-Not contradicting your post, just adding something to consider. Rust doesn't sleep but corrosion can slow down greatly. Without going into the chemical analysis I'm not qualified to comment on I'll just suggest that there are different types/forms of rust. Red rust is active and can destroy ferrous steel in relatively short order. It's fairly well known that black oxidation is operating at a much slower pace than red. As an example, Japanese swords can have a black oxidized coating on the tang. This takes more than 1-2 hundred years for it to develop, it even feels different than red oxidation. Were it as active as red then the tang would have crumbled long ago. It's more stable than red, seems to last for several hundred years without drastic change to the host, and can be a means in age identification of the object. Can this be imitated by chemical means? Perhaps so but I'm not a chemist or well versed enough in metallurgy to properly answer that but probably so. It has been attempted in order to falsify the age of a sword, thereby increasing the value, but has a distinct chemical smell and feels different from what I've read. I should know more about this but most everything I've made either goes inside a machine or is indoors out of the elements. Any further posts on the subject will help educate me and are most welcome.
 

Firebrick43

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As @Chris_Hamilton suggested, treat it with ospho and paint it the next day. I would suggest a moisture cured aluminum filled urethane for the best outdoor protection. Make sure you are covered up when you paint it as you will wear it until it wears off your skin. The brand we used was sherwin williams corothane but there are other good brands of MCU out there as well.
 

Chris_Hamilton

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-Not contradicting your post, just adding something to consider. Rust doesn't sleep but corrosion can slow down greatly. Without going into the chemical analysis I'm not qualified to comment on I'll just suggest that there are different types/forms of rust. Red rust is active and can destroy ferrous steel in relatively short order. It's fairly well known that black oxidation is operating at a much slower pace than red. As an example, Japanese swords can have a black oxidized coating on the tang. This takes more than 1-2 hundred years for it to develop, it even feels different than red oxidation. Were it as active as red then the tang would have crumbled long ago. It's more stable than red, seems to last for several hundred years without drastic change to the host, and can be a means in age identification of the object. Can this be imitated by chemical means? Perhaps so but I'm not a chemist or well versed enough in metallurgy to properly answer that but probably so. It has been attempted in order to falsify the age of a sword, thereby increasing the value, but has a distinct chemical smell and feels different from what I've read. I should know more about this but most everything I've made either goes inside a machine or is indoors out of the elements. Any further posts on the subject will help educate me and are most welcome.
Never heard of black oxidation happening spontaneously. I've only heard of it as a conversion coating.
 

Firebrick43

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Never heard of black oxidation happening spontaneously. I've only heard of it as a conversion coating.
Someone converted the red rust to black oxide via boiling and carding it along the way. You are correct that it black oxide doesn't happen without converting it.

If its just carded and oiled, aka browning, its still red rust oxide, it just gets darker due to the oxidation of the oils.
 

RoninB4

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Never heard of black oxidation happening spontaneously. I've only heard of it as a conversion coating.
-I didn't state and doubt that it happened spontaneously given the ritualized, meticulous attention given to Japanese armaments on a regular basis by their owners. What was done that caused a conversion is unknown to me. What I do know is some of the few chemicals available in Japan centuries ago were from natural/organic sources. While blades were kept spotlessly clean via a specialized abrasive powder (uchiko) the same care was not taken with the tangs of swords/spears/halberds, and after some period of time it was somewhat taboo to attempt cleaning the tang with anything unless water/mud/blood was on it. There have also been, historically, specialists for cleaning/sharpening weapons but none of the accounts I've seen/read mention any chemical used on the tang except camellia/clove oil to the blade itself and not necessarily the tang. I doubt that it happened spontaneously as I've seen too many with black oxide for it to be a coincidence, several experts have always insisted that no attempts should be made to remove black oxide. I've never attempted anything for conversion as I don't have two hundred years to wait for results, I just follow what I've read. I have theories about the conversion but nothing I believe to be factual. I did not intend to mislead, I just wanted to point out that oxidation is not all the same. Perhaps I shouldn't have made my original post.
 
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Beerhippie

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Someone converted the red rust to black oxide via boiling and carding it along the way. You are correct that it black oxide doesn't happen without converting it.

If its just carded and oiled, aka browning, its still red rust oxide, it just gets darker due to the oxidation of the oils.
Yep. All you gotta do is find a pot big enough to boil the bridge in!
 

FourthQuarter

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Never dismiss old time methods. BLO is awesome. Like Beerhippie, I cut it and use it on metal as well.

It's getting expensive but because people think it's old fashioned, I always seem to be picking it up for free from friends, cleanouts, etc.
 

Beerhippie

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Never dismiss old time methods. BLO is awesome. Like Beerhippie, I cut it and use it on metal as well.

It's getting expensive but because people think it's old fashioned, I always seem to be picking it up for free from friends, cleanouts, etc.
Yard/garage sales are a good source, too.
 
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Poodlehead

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Spray it with Cosmoline
Never heard of Cosmoline before... A quick search looks like it would be my best choice IF I try anything on it. It appears the only downside to using Cosmoline would be the bridge might be slick/waxy, but I could leave the expanded metal on top, untreated.

I never thought there would be this much response to my question. You all ROCK! Thank you!!!
 

i4ni

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Bear in mind with anything left out in the elements there's never a one and done as far as preservation goes whether it be Paint, Phosphoric acid or Cosmoline.
I've used Cosmoline as a rust preventative on truck undercarriages and under body panels with great success although it requires touching up here and there but unlike undercoating moisture can't get under it. Phosphoric acid works pretty good as well but again you will have to address issues that will inevitably arise do to mother nature doing what she do. Good luck
 
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PowerWagonBuilder

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The Steel bridges that are intended to rust over lightly and then stop rusting have to exist in a fairly dry area where they can actually recover from a moisture cycle too. The grade of steel is A588, also known as weathering steel and "Corten" is the common brand name, similar to how Band-aid or Coke can be universally applied with lots of actual other manufacturers. I personally inspected and was involved in the closure of several A588 trusses in Cuyahoga Valley National Park along the old Carriage Trails. The park service placed these in areas that are under either tree cover or snow cover with minimal sunlight and not a lot of air flow. They also failed to remove the debris (leaves, sticks and dirt) that accumulated in the lower chord members and panel points so the steel never dried out. The corrosion then continued and section loss occurred so after a series of routine inspections they were identified as having a loss of capacity so we had them closed.

There is currently an AASHTO and FHWA led investigation on A588 constructed bridges across the country because it has been identified that there needs to be a minimum air gap / clearance from the ground and traffic. Another issue identified with them was lower clearance structures over roadways that constantly received overspray from vehicles passing below, and even worse in areas with heavy salt / brine use. These structures were showing continual corrosion similar to the issues with debris or low ground / moist area clearances.

Overall, weathering steel is intended to work by having an initial "patina" corrosion phase that is tight on the surface and prevents additional moisture and oxygen (because oxygen is required for converting to Iron-Oxide) and the corrosion phase should stop. This is functional if the components are exposed to moisture occasionally and dries quickly. Some other issues with weathering steel is when the rolling mill scale remains in place, it allows moisture to be trapped behind it causing pitting and localized section loss as well as weathering steel usually requiring the ends of the beams to be painted below bridge deck expansion joints due to the joint seals leaking and not often being resealed or replaced in a timely manner, often due to the required lane closures and abatement processes.

When used in the correct application, the intent and function is absolutely wonderful. I know of a bridge that is mostly highly elevated deep girder spans over traffic, a brackish inlet waterway, and even the cross girder piers are made of it. However, where the structure declines in elevation and is closer (sub 25 feet) from the ground and marsh, there is already corrosion and repairs planned just because the air doesn't flow and the constant evaporative effect and occasional wind blown salt mist just don't mix with raw steel.

I have seen 1 fully built stainless steel bridge. It was expensive and its awesome. The hardware as 400 series though so it looks terrible with its patina rust.

I also inspected two Aluminum beam bridges outside of Phantom Ranch in the Grand Canyon... they have "Reynolds Aluminum" stamped in them which made me laugh to think of it being made of "tin-foil" and thats how they had to get them down there. I actually don't recall how they transported those into the Canyon, but I do know that the Black Trail Bridge cables were carried at night on the shoulders of men as they walked the South Kaibab trail. That was a fun bridge to inspect too.
 

rocksnstumps

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Don't see any attached pics from OP but keeping the ends from direct contact with the ground on some type of stone/gravel or concrete footer and not having any pockets where water can pool will go along way towards many decades of service. Definitely prime and paint on the typical structural steels is gonna help. I'm still using running gears (think hay wagon rack) that were made in the 1950s that are left outside year round to this day for hauling wood at my land. Wood on top been replaced plenty of times but the frame still pretty good except in few spots where water can't drain off easy. Plenty of the faded paint and rusty look but pretty solid. Unless your bridge is gonna get a whiff of saltwater from being near the ocean would expect I beam type construction to last decades if not damp all the time.
 

Chris_Hamilton

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I just wanted to point out that oxidation is not all the same. Perhaps I shouldn't have made my original post.
I wasn't trying to be critical, just stating I had never heard of it happening spontaneously as I inferred from your post. I only know enough on the subject matter to be dangerous....:)
 
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Poodlehead

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Don't see any attached pics from OP but keeping the ends from direct contact with the ground on some type of stone/gravel or concrete footer and not having any pockets where water can pool will go along way towards many decades of service. Definitely prime and paint on the typical structural steels is gonna help...
Not sure what happened to the original pic. I hope I'm attaching it again (showing the bridges and to the right is where they will be placed) and 2 other pics of the bridge. There are a lot of braces making it difficult to paint. If I put any coating on the steel, I'm leaning towards spraying the Cosmoline on it. I could turn the bridges upside down, spray the hell out of the bottom surfaces, and wait for it to dry before turning over to spray all the top surfaces???

It was suggested to use L shaped concrete footers for a cattle guard to place the bridges on. I still need to look into it, but that would keep them off the ground, assuming they would be big enough to support the weight. I plan to do that on this side of the creek now, but footers on the far side of the creek will be RR ties covered with some thick landscape fabric. Once I get the bridges installed I can get equipment over there to raise them and put something better down???

I'm in Central Texas (College Station), so it's usually pretty dry here. Thank y'all for all the great input!
 

RoninB4

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