I will be running my electric and water next month to my building. The run is 220 feet total thru a 100 foot section of woods. The trees in the woods are 18” to 36” in diameter so pretty big roots I guess. I am reasonably competent on a excavator never used a trencher. What will be the easiest to get a 32 inch depth with the tree roots?
Trencher or mini excavator for utilities?
- Thread starter plout99
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greg13
Well-known member
If larger roots are involved use a mini exc. If it were a clear easy run a trencher would do it in less than an hour.
nadogail
Well-known member
Call Dig Alert so that you won't be charged with negligence.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
A mini might have lots of troubles with roots as well. Even an 80hp backhoe can be stopped cold by trees that size. May need a soil knife/ripper to get through them
dcg9381
Well-known member
I agree with this. Trencher will make quick work of the straight paths, but as soon as you get into any roots - you'll slow down. My soil is different, but not sure I could do 200' in a day with a excavator though...
doctordirt
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- May 15, 2014
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Plan your path. No matter which method you decide you do not want to fight the roots for so many reasons. Future repair, time expended, damage to a machine, or clean up. You do not want to final grade with 2 to 4 inch roots sticking up and or losing the trees in you value.
What kind of trees and what kind of soil?
I do this for a living. Primarily fir trees out here. Soil conditions can determine where the roots are gonna be.
If it's me. Excavator. But I'm a ditch digger by trade.
The trencher WILL cut through roots. What it will not do is cut an open path through roots. The "blade" is going to gnaw through them alright. And what you're left with is a zipper of sorts of the shredded roots falling back into the trench. Now you have to try to force your way through that to get to bottom of trench.
The excavator will also fight with roots but you're also using a 12-18" wide implement to do so.
Power wise?
I can do the same amount of work with a 20hp machine I can do with an 80hp hoe. Just not as fast and not as gracefully.
The trick with a mini is to use it's power wisely and not to ask for more than what the machine can give you with any single or combination of operations.
Last note. When you get to the roots. Bucket curl is where the power is.
I do this for a living. Primarily fir trees out here. Soil conditions can determine where the roots are gonna be.
If it's me. Excavator. But I'm a ditch digger by trade.
The trencher WILL cut through roots. What it will not do is cut an open path through roots. The "blade" is going to gnaw through them alright. And what you're left with is a zipper of sorts of the shredded roots falling back into the trench. Now you have to try to force your way through that to get to bottom of trench.
The excavator will also fight with roots but you're also using a 12-18" wide implement to do so.
Power wise?
I can do the same amount of work with a 20hp machine I can do with an 80hp hoe. Just not as fast and not as gracefully.
The trick with a mini is to use it's power wisely and not to ask for more than what the machine can give you with any single or combination of operations.
Last note. When you get to the roots. Bucket curl is where the power is.
That Guy Scott
Well-known member
When I did this 2 years ago, I rented a Cat 420 backhoe. We have a mini ex and still rented the backhoe. My bro-in law was a Local 12 guy and ran excavators and back hoes. We (mostly he) dug just shy of 400’, 48” deep in 8 hours. We had rocks instead of roots. Best $501 spent. We’ve done a lot of work around the property with the mini ex, and it’ll work, just not as fast as a bigger machine.
Mini excavator.
One time I used a trencher, a little bit of ground water made its way into the trench. With that happening, the trencher just mixed the water and soil and it made a nice soup of mud. It wouldn't pull any of the mud out. I gave up and got an excavator.
Lesson learned.
One time I used a trencher, a little bit of ground water made its way into the trench. With that happening, the trencher just mixed the water and soil and it made a nice soup of mud. It wouldn't pull any of the mud out. I gave up and got an excavator.
Lesson learned.
Strange. When I used a trencher, I cut through my neighbors water line. It was a hot august day in Georgia, so the cold water that flooded out was kind of nice. Even after I figured out where to shut off the water, the trencher was still able to finish the last 3 feet of the trench.
finn
Well-known member
Mini ex with a 12” bucket and maybe a root ripper.
I'd probably go with the mini-ex as I'd bet you'll hit rocks as well.
I think I might spend the extra coin and put in solid 4" tile to run the water line through for an future repairs.
Are you direct burying the electric or putting it in conduit ?
I think I might spend the extra coin and put in solid 4" tile to run the water line through for an future repairs.
Are you direct burying the electric or putting it in conduit ?
A decent size ditch witch won't have a problem with roots. Just don't trench right next to the tree.
Last trenching I did last fall was through an old grove. Most of the trees had been ripped out but still plenty of roots. I did about 500' in 4 hours. Half of it was so muddy I tied a chain to the trencher and helped pull with a skid loader. Also lost about a half hour waiting for fuel line when a hose on the trencher wore through and started dribbling diesel.
Last trenching I did last fall was through an old grove. Most of the trees had been ripped out but still plenty of roots. I did about 500' in 4 hours. Half of it was so muddy I tied a chain to the trencher and helped pull with a skid loader. Also lost about a half hour waiting for fuel line when a hose on the trencher wore through and started dribbling diesel.
n20junkie
Well-known member
I used an backhoe and ended up finding the foundation concrete pour off right in the path of my utilities. Hitting that with a trencher would have likely damaged it and I still would have needed the backhoe to deal with the concrete.
I vote for the bucket. It’s just more versatile.
I vote for the bucket. It’s just more versatile.
The soil is clay with the trees being hardwoods mostly oak and hickory.
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theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Very messy, but this might be a good solution.
Rent a GOOD, high volume, high pressure washer. Blast through the first 6"-12" of top soil until you find the biggest root. Let you shallow trench dry out at least over night and then come back a cut the big roots with an ax or chain saw.
Either that or rent a bigger excavator.
Rent a GOOD, high volume, high pressure washer. Blast through the first 6"-12" of top soil until you find the biggest root. Let you shallow trench dry out at least over night and then come back a cut the big roots with an ax or chain saw.
Either that or rent a bigger excavator.
danfromsyr
Well-known member
for roots, keep handy a sawzall with a pruning blade or demo blade for in dirt work. ;-)
Natty Bumppo
Well-known member
Mini-excavator for all the reasons already stated. Plus, after you run your conduit the excavator will allow you to fill the trench back in. Can't do that with a trencher.
finn
Well-known member
The four wheel drive, ride on commercial trenchers have a blade. Of course, if you are going to rent one of them, you may as well rent a Mini excavator.
BS. Unless you're using a walk behind most trenchers have a blade. The one on mine can tilt and angle in addition to raise/lower. Backfilling is very fast.
Backfilling with the blade on a mini-ex is painful. Really need a skid loader or other equipment if you have very much to do.
In good conditions a trencher will run circles around a similar size excavator. That said a mini-ex is a more versatile machine and will work better in tight spaces.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
Trencher. It's a chainsaw on wheels.
A mini excavator will still make you come out with a chainsaw if you have lots of roots.
A mini excavator will still make you come out with a chainsaw if you have lots of roots.
machsnell
Well-known member
It depends on how close you have to get to the trees really. Both mini and trencher will struggle with larger roots.
But a decent trencher will cut through tree roots. Trencher less messy than min and so much faster.
Depends on your soil but trencher spoils are already ground and easier to get back in trench and compact.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
But a decent trencher will cut through tree roots. Trencher less messy than min and so much faster.
Depends on your soil but trencher spoils are already ground and easier to get back in trench and compact.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Natty Bumppo
Well-known member
Ah. Didn't know that. Thanks!
Natty Bumppo
Well-known member
Thanks. Didn't know that. Yes, I have only used walk behinds. PITA compared to a mini excavator. Backfilling with a mini never seemed that painful to me.
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Chuckster in NJ
Well-known member
Maybe this will help you select the proper machine...... Check out www.ditchwitch.com
Ditch Witch has a machine for just about any trenching job and your local DW dealer can assist you with renting a machine for your needs.
Ditch Witch has a machine for just about any trenching job and your local DW dealer can assist you with renting a machine for your needs.
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VM Builders
Member
Yes make sure to call dig alert before digging! Also, We've used both the trencher and the mini and the trencher is awesome for softer dirt but not when there are many obstacles like rocks and roots. Maybe keep a chain saw handy to dear through the bigger roots.
Most mini's can only adjust the height of the blade. It's pretty limiting.
With the ditch witch I can just turn the blade to a 45* angle and drive along side the trench pushing the dirt in.
finn
Well-known member
My little Deere 26g blade doesn’t swivel. The 35g I was looking at when I bought the 26g had a swivel blade, albeit at a hefty price premium.
I rarely use the CTL to clean up after the mini in trenching situations, even with the limited blade articulation.
Bigger jobs, yes, the CTL is the correct finishing machine.
The phone company sent a contractor with a ride on trencher to bury my land line. It was a sweet machine, and buried the cable in about 2% of what the mini would have, but that was a simple job, shallow, and no roots.
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ard
Well-known member
Ive done a bunch of trenching with this:
Not your standard walk behind....
Not your standard walk behind....
Natty Bumppo
Well-known member
Thanks again. Yes, I now see especially in that pic ard posted what these things are capable of. Next time I trench I may have to reconsider what I rent!
The rental ones often don't but many also have a front mounted backhoe. The backhoe isn't very good compared to a mini but works good if you need a hole at the end of a trench or need to dig up a big rock or something in your trench.
finn
Well-known member
Ive done a bunch of trenching with this:
Not your standard walk behind....
That’s what the phone company contractor used.
Interesting guy. Traveled the entire northern half of the state with a pickup truck, helper, and trencher burying phone lines on contract for the utility. Can’t think of a more boring job, but to each his own.
Nice little niche, I guess. Didn’t seem like it paid very well, from our conversation. Lots of travel per foot of cable laid. His house was about 250- 300 miles from mine, and he was leaving to get home for the weekend as it was getting late, about 7:00 pm, as he loaded up.